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Will Sony's live-service strategy results affect the future of their portfolio?
asdasdasdbb
Member
I was also thinking that perhaps they will retool Fairgames to include a single player component to it.
Felessan
Member
Sony thinks the same way as Square thought almost 15 years ago - having a successfull gaas will ensure division safety for year (of decades). It's really reasonable to pursuit business wise.
And one failure (FF14 1.0) is not a point to give up attempts, because what is at stakes is a bottom line safety (stable cashflow that doesn't depends on anything)
Ahm...
Genshin, Fortnite and others is also a part of Sony gaas strategy and if anything this part is not "failing hard" for sure. Like most big gaas that are coming are announced for ps - wuwa, arknights, mugen, nte etc
Sony just wants to have their own and its where they have troubles (due to lack of expertise, failed expectations, failed experience conversion etc). Their desire is undestandable - they are core player of the market and if market shits - they should try to follow, even if its hard and unfruitfull at the beginning. The alternative - go niche and be mostly forgotten.
As a whole gaas strategy will stay.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I hadn't thought about the 3rd party live service games being part of the strategy. Yea especially like with Genshin, which is essentially single player, but obviously microtransaction heavy. It kinda diminishes the importance of a less than stellar launch with Concord
Madserb2023
Member
It's already had an effect on their current output as to why we haven't had a new game from Naughty Dog yet. Does anyone really think factions didn't have an impact on their output. Who knows what else has been delayed. I think Sony will keep trying their luck for the next couple of years but not forever. Sony is a Japanese company and not frivolous. Sony are no strangers to completely dropping products if they aren't successful. Do it all the time
yurinka
Member
Sony already was successful with previous GaaS in the past like LBP, Everquest, PS Home or GT Sport. In recent times Sony is being very successful with GaaS like Destiny 2, MLB, Gran Turismo 7 or Helldivers 2.
As happens with non-GaaS, some games are successful and other ones flop. In GaaS they recently flopped with Firewall Ultra (I assume they saw it coming, Concord and before them Destruction AllStars.
As happens with non-GaaS, some titles get cancelled or rebooted. In GaaS that happened recently with TLOU Online, London's new IP and Deviation's game.
They already knew that out of the many games they do, as always happened in all companies with both GaaS and non-GaaS some titles will get cancelled, other will tank, other ones will be successful and a few will be huge hits.
So they'll continue forward working on Marathon, Fairgame$, Horizon Online, Bend's new IP, the new IP incubated at Bungie and moved to PS Studios, the game being made by ex-Deviations, MLB and Gran Turismo 8. Plus the mobile games they may have in the works both internally and mostly externally.
As always happened in all companies, failed GaaS will be abandoned, and successful GaaS will continue getting support as long as their performance allow it.
Sony had a great SP 1st party output but their MP/GaaS 1st party output was too poor. And that was an issue because MP/GaaS are the most played and top grossing games, in recent times in console too. And the game revenue every year moves more from game sales to add-on sales.
To quit from GaaS would be nonsensical, stupid and suicidal specially when they are being very successful with multiple GaaS games. That doesn't mean they'll quit or reduce their efforts on SP non-GaaS games: the opposite, as they said they'll continue increasing their investment on them.
GaaS, like PC or mobile games, aren't a replacement for SP non-GaaS console games. It's an extra they add on top.
And also released an Uncharted movie and TLOU tv show plus two theme park rides (Uncharted rollercoaster + TLOU haunted house event) in this 4 years period.
There is absolutely no issue with ND's output. It's just you being impatient and asking impossible things.
This is want shareholders want to see, they don't give a fuck if one specific single game tanked while all the important metrics are performing great.
As happens with non-GaaS, some games are successful and other ones flop. In GaaS they recently flopped with Firewall Ultra (I assume they saw it coming, Concord and before them Destruction AllStars.
As happens with non-GaaS, some titles get cancelled or rebooted. In GaaS that happened recently with TLOU Online, London's new IP and Deviation's game.
They already knew that out of the many games they do, as always happened in all companies with both GaaS and non-GaaS some titles will get cancelled, other will tank, other ones will be successful and a few will be huge hits.
So they'll continue forward working on Marathon, Fairgame$, Horizon Online, Bend's new IP, the new IP incubated at Bungie and moved to PS Studios, the game being made by ex-Deviations, MLB and Gran Turismo 8. Plus the mobile games they may have in the works both internally and mostly externally.
As always happened in all companies, failed GaaS will be abandoned, and successful GaaS will continue getting support as long as their performance allow it.
Sony had a great SP 1st party output but their MP/GaaS 1st party output was too poor. And that was an issue because MP/GaaS are the most played and top grossing games, in recent times in console too. And the game revenue every year moves more from game sales to add-on sales.
To quit from GaaS would be nonsensical, stupid and suicidal specially when they are being very successful with multiple GaaS games. That doesn't mean they'll quit or reduce their efforts on SP non-GaaS games: the opposite, as they said they'll continue increasing their investment on them.
GaaS, like PC or mobile games, aren't a replacement for SP non-GaaS console games. It's an extra they add on top.
It's nonsensical to complain about not having games from ND. Nowadays AAA games take 5-9 years to be made and in the last 4 years they released:
- TLOU2
- TLOUP1 + PC port
- TLOU2 Remastered
- Uncharted Thieves Collection + PC ports
And also released an Uncharted movie and TLOU tv show plus two theme park rides (Uncharted rollercoaster + TLOU haunted house event) in this 4 years period.
There is absolutely no issue with ND's output. It's just you being impatient and asking impossible things.
These are just fairy tales.
SIE is having their top grossing generation in terms of revenue, in terms of profit this generation made more profit than in all the previous one combined, and most metrics like MAU, hardware revenue, software revenue, game subs revenue, accesories revenue, 1st party games off-PS revenue and so on are basically in all time highs and in a multi-year growth trend. 1st party games released in 2020, 2022, 2023 and 2024 broke their records of fastest selling games. They are successfully growing in multiple markets.
This is want shareholders want to see, they don't give a fuck if one specific single game tanked while all the important metrics are performing great.
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laynelane
Member
I assume they're still going with this:
www.gamedeveloper.com
Concord is a bust, but Helldivers 2 is successful. Plus, I doubt their expectation was that all twelve titles would be hits. I think they'll keep going with this, but will use the data from the first two to try to improve the rest.
Sony pushes back half of its planned live-service games
Half of Sony's intended output for live-service games are being delayed, while the other six are still meant to release in the next few years.
Concord is a bust, but Helldivers 2 is successful. Plus, I doubt their expectation was that all twelve titles would be hits. I think they'll keep going with this, but will use the data from the first two to try to improve the rest.
SkylineRKR
Member
Helldivers 2 was more of a freak accident that came out in a dry period and most of its succes was on Steam. Its falling of a cliff for a good while now.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Yes, not only do a select few really succeed, Sony is intent on having the live service games only on PS5 and PC. Come hell or high water will they put any of their live service games on Xbox. I mean there IS a 30 million user base on Xbox. Even a couple million players playing their game on Game pass would help their games out. But Sony is Japan-centric and will not support an American company and competitor (even if it would help them).
Schmendrick
Member
It´s not one sided enough, yet, to throw the current strategy completely overboard.
Right now the management is probably still in the "you win some you lose some" mood.
Also, given that game development now takes half a decade we`d probably not even notice a change in their strategy until PS6....
Right now the management is probably still in the "you win some you lose some" mood.
Also, given that game development now takes half a decade we`d probably not even notice a change in their strategy until PS6....
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
They see the revenue numbers we’ll never see from CoD, Apex, Fortnite, GtA online, etc. It makes sense to chase it, and makes even more sense to use startup studios to do it. The only thing I see as truly dumb here was buying the studio. They also bought Jade Raymond’s studio that is making Fairgame$ which already has flop written all over it as well.
Mr Hyde
Member
Sony is making a fool of themselves with this live service shenanigans. Buying Bungie for 3.6 billion that's revealed to be a house of cards. Greenlighting crap like Concord and Fairgames instead of playing to your strengths with awesome single player games. I'm so incredibly disappointed by them this generation. It started out so good, with PS5 being a kick ass console, launching with Demon's Souls and Returnal, and then Forbidden West, Rift Apart and GoW Ragnarok. Years later, it's devolved into the company and PS brand being a laughing stock that loses millions upon millions on expensive flops.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
Games that exist or are under development today will continue as-is. Destiny 2 isn't going anywhere, I doubt Marathon will be canceled either
It's likely that Concord will be shut down before the end of 2024 but it remains to be seen if Firewalk will continue to be a studio that exists or gets disbanded
Sony doesn't have any other GaaS titles under development right now besides FaIRgAmE but that might not be canned if it's far enough along that it makes sense to finish and release it rather than eat the whole development cost with no product at all
Going forward though, I doubt Sony will greenlight any new GaaS projects, that ship has sailed
HD2 wasn't a first party project to begin with and doesn't figure in any way when Sony plans first party output
It's likely that Concord will be shut down before the end of 2024 but it remains to be seen if Firewalk will continue to be a studio that exists or gets disbanded
Sony doesn't have any other GaaS titles under development right now besides FaIRgAmE but that might not be canned if it's far enough along that it makes sense to finish and release it rather than eat the whole development cost with no product at all
Going forward though, I doubt Sony will greenlight any new GaaS projects, that ship has sailed
HD2 wasn't a first party project to begin with and doesn't figure in any way when Sony plans first party output
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SkylineRKR
Member
Keep bombing by not buying and Sony is forced to rethink their strategy. Their biggest successes were the traditional games. Sony is undeniably on a bad streak from the Bungie acquisition to Factions and now Concord with the PSVR2 being sent out to die inbetween. Fairgame$ is absolutely going to bomb. The name alone makes me puke. Its all so AI generated and they're desperate to find their own Fortnite. Same like 'Concord'
asdasdasdbb
Member
We sort of do. Sony made 290 billion revenue (in Yen) last quarter from "Add On Content" which is mostly Sony's cut of F2P games. (I believe it does include DLC, but can't imagine that's much other than Shadow of the Erdtree)
bitbydeath
Gold Member
As long as they don’t use their main first party studios (not counting Bungie and others bought recently) who cares.
We don’t even know what they were capable of outside of GaaS so it is really no loss.
We don’t even know what they were capable of outside of GaaS so it is really no loss.
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
I mean, Gran Turismo 7 will end up as the most successful GT in history (if not already), MLB is a huge thing every year, Helldivers 2 is one of this years big games.
Just because Concord fails doesn't mean shit, specially considering Sony only bought the studio last year. It's not like they were there for 8 or 5 years.
Just because Concord fails doesn't mean shit, specially considering Sony only bought the studio last year. It's not like they were there for 8 or 5 years.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This needs to be stressed.
But it also needs to be taken even further to make clear that Live Service / GaaS don't HAVE to be MP exclusively PvP games.
This is my biggest gripe with their current strategy. Concord, Marathon, and Fairplay are all MP exclusively PvP games. Meanwhile, Sony's most successful Live Service games to date are Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2, both of which are either primarily MP co-op PvE or exclusively PvE.
Sony knows it's core fanbase is SP orientated. Why not invest in Live Service games that address both the SP core as well as the COD MP consumer with both PvP and PvE content like Destiny 2 does?
It really doesn't make sense not to. I think/hope this is where they'll refocus their plans moving forwards.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Investors want GAAS money not Sony loosing money to chase GAAS money. H2 is not the Fortnite money maker.
It’s like the Auto industry proclaiming they be 100% EV only and have to undergo huge investments and risks to make it happen. Was a good show for the shareholders until EV sales dropped this year and now all carmakers are like, yeah we’ll develop ICE engines again.
Sony will have to abandoned the GAAS strategy if it isn’t turning into Fortnite money making. Shareholders don’t care about the finer details - all they want is more money.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
And a lot of those shareholders will be looking at Concord... and then looking at Wukong. Some pretty obvious conclusions will be reached.
yurinka
Member
Announced for 2024:
- Concord
- Astro Bot
- Lego Horizon Adventures
- Until Dawn Remake
- GoWR PC
- Lost Soul Aside
- Convallaria
- MLB
- Death Stranding 2
- Marathon
- Fairgame$
- Wolverine
- Star Wars KOTOR
- Horizon 3
- Horizon Online
- Bend's open world new IP
- Media Molecule's new IP
- Firesprite's horror adventure
- New GoW set in a new mythology
- Physint (to start development after shipping Death Stranding 2)
- Venom (2025 or 2027)
- Spider-Man 3
- New Ratchet game
- Insomniac's new IP
- AAA 3rd party console exclusives
- AA console exclusives
- Indie console exclusives
- China/India/MENA Hero Project titles
- 10 movie/tv show adaptations in the works
What shareholders care about is that Sony is having their top grossing, most profitable ever generation. Sony is not losing money, they are getting more profit than they ever had.
With record and multiyear growth in MAU and revenue from hardware, software, gamesubs, accesories, off PS 1st party and movie/tv show adaptations.
They also know Sony has been very successful with recent GaaS like MLB, GT7, Helldivers 2 or Destiny TFS. They don't care if one of their many games tanked because what is important for them is the bigger picture. Particularly the SIE's total revenue and profit plus if it seems that will continue growing or not.
Yes, but it didn't need to be that and nobody expected it to be that.
It's the fastest selling Sony game ever and has been way more successful than they expected.
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sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
This is the baseline now. Shareholders were told that funding GAAS will make money. For year upon years, while HD2 player base is already shrinking.
Shareholders expected that and a lot more.
yurinka
Member
Shareholders were told that every year the game revenue percent coming from GaaS keep growing and already is the majority (meaning -even if they didn't mention it- to focus only in SP would be a suicide in the long term). So even if Sony was performing great they said that Sony was going to expand to bet in GaaS, on top of also expanding their investment in non-GaaS SP games. And as they said, Sony is expanding.
They are being very successful with GaaS. One tanked and a handful got cancelled, but this is normal business since also happened always with non-GaaS games in all companies.
GaaS are making a lot of money money for them: MLB, GT7, Helldivers 2 and Destiny TFS have been very successful. Plus they also signed 3rd party GaaS console exclusives like the recent ZZZ, which also is a big hit. Helldivers 2 already made way more money than they expected it to make on its whole lifetime. Whatever mone HD2 continues making it's a cherry on top, there's no pressure to make more.
On a related note, in the last quarter they more than doubled the 1st party off-PS (so mostly PC) revenue compared to the same quarter of the previous year. Which already had a substantial growth vs the previous year.
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rsouzadk
Member
And thats almost entirely now on AH itself. The psn acc did this thing, but rn they are the only ones to blame.
Moriarty1889
Member
One would hope that it does in the sense they realize how much the fanbase loves SP games. Sony are masters at their AAA SP games and the upcoming Astrobot will only cement that even further. It will sell a ton of copies imo and prove just how much more the fanbase supports those types of games.
Astray
Member
They're also going to look at Helldivers 2. It's honestly wild how the GAAS initiative has yielded Sony's biggest success ever and its worst flop, all in one FY!
I think in terms of finances, it's too early to judge this GAAS push.
Is this even coming out? Only 3-4 months left in the year and no updates.
HeWhoWalks
Member
I'd say this is realistic rather than optimistic. They never said they'd totally commit to a GaaS future anyway, only that it would expand their portfolio (which, thus far, it's done that). For some reason however, folks around here (not you) assume (as per usual) that an addition to a strategy is a focus on that strategy. Thus far, only one company has made this massive mistake and their name doesn't begin with an N nor an S.
Sony will be fine. Concord was a risk – it failed. Helldivers II is a success. Nothing is set beyond that and plenty of single player, top-tier Sony stuff is on the way. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I appreciate when companies offer many types of experiences. They won't all be commercial pluses, but that's why they're called risks.
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yurinka
Member
Yes, it's coming. It already got trailers in the past, maybe they want to focus the remaining marketing budget closer to release.
Or who knows, they may delay it to 2025. But I wouldn't bet on it because I think it was originally planned to be released late 2023.
Next month is TGS, so I assume Sony will market their upcoming Asian games there -in addition to the typical pre-TGS State of Play- like Astro Bot, Convallaria, Lost Soul Aside or Death Stranding 2.
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