Windows 8 Release Preview
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What? No. If you're expecting W8's WinRT to be a replacement for Windows you will be disappointed and disorientated when you expect things that it wasn't designed to manage don't work they way you expect them to.
The settings charm bar has two parts to it. One is the lower half, its a general settings (but sadly as you noticed it does not cover everything, there is still the control panel for more advanced stuff). The top area is context sensitive. In the Desktop, you get something like this:
While on the Start Screen:
and in the Metro Remote Desktop App:
It does seem short sighted of them to not have resolution controls in the General PC Settings of the Metro stuff. Anyway, if you want to change it you do it like you have always changed it (right click the desktop and click screen resolution) or of course go to the control panel etc.. There are a couple new ways to access the control panel though. One is shown above in that right click menu which can be accessed anywhere, either in the desktop environment or the metro one, just right click in the lower left. Then of course there is win+search or open up the all programs list (right click the start screen) and then as i showed above use the settings charm while on the desktop and using its context sensitive functions.
Yeah i wish they would add that function to the taskbar, but one thing you do need to realize is that Metro Applications don't need to be managed. Just like iOS and Windows Phone applications, they get suspended after a short time. It took me awhile before i stopped closing and managing iOS applications like i do traditional PC applications, now i just leave them alone and let them do their own thing, same way with Metro applications.
I find the dragging to close quite nice, i sometimes try to close desktop applications that way lol. Anyway, as with everything in Windows, there is more than one way to do an action. If you don't like closing them by dragging them you can close them by going to the task switcher on the left and right clicking and selecting close. And of course Alt+F4 works as well. Also think of the start button preview thingy in the lower left (or your windows key on your keyboard or the windows button on the charms bar) as iOS's home button.
yeah it took me awhile to get used to the transition, now it doesn't bother me though. I do the same thing though, pin all of my most used applications to the taskbar and search for the others. I think that is how microsoft wants you to use it to be honest. (and i think most people used Windows 7 like that, one reason for the start menu going away. I only used it for search).
yeah i tried to use IE10 for awhile but couldn't get used to it. It does have a bookmark feature though, you just have to pin them to the start screen. For me though, that requires too many clicks (i prefer a bookmark bar). That plus some multi-monitor issues with metro apps keeps me from using IE10.
Honestly, i just stick to the desktop, but i don't mind the additions of metro. I see it more as a bonus and it is not less efficient compared to the start menu imo. Perhaps i will use it more when there are actually decent applications in the store, but for now i just use W8 like i used W7 on the desktop, which is fine by me.
No, that's a wrong assumption people keep spreading for some reason.
Maybe in the future it will be legacy, but not right now.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Seriously, the people who keep saying desktop is legacy are delusional.
McHuj
Member
I was being sarcastic. I don't want that to be true, but given how Win8 operates, it sure seems MS believes it and wants it to be true.
Those office icons look great.
And a major fuck off for still gimping the search. It really is beyond retarded to limit it to Apps by default, I can't be the only one that commonly searches for items other than Apps. Anything frequently used gets pinned to the task bar, or to the start menu for less frequently used applications. And then they decide to fucking mimic Apple by not even giving you the option to not have the search by useless.
bleh.
Edit: Any reason that Windows 8 doesn't copy over the wifi settings when I select "keep everything"? Also don't like the changes to windows update review. Why replace "Ok" with "Install"? Fucking defeats the point of reviewing updates.
And holy shit, that new power options icon is hideous. Also, why can I still not use backspace to return to the previous screen? Metro -> App sets App as my last screen that I can go back to. But at the same time it gets set as the previous app when using the win key. Consistency is overrated eh?
Desktop -> Metro: win key toggles between either
Metro -> App: backspace stuck within app. but win key toggles between metro/app.
And a major fuck off for still gimping the search. It really is beyond retarded to limit it to Apps by default, I can't be the only one that commonly searches for items other than Apps. Anything frequently used gets pinned to the task bar, or to the start menu for less frequently used applications. And then they decide to fucking mimic Apple by not even giving you the option to not have the search by useless.
bleh.
Edit: Any reason that Windows 8 doesn't copy over the wifi settings when I select "keep everything"? Also don't like the changes to windows update review. Why replace "Ok" with "Install"? Fucking defeats the point of reviewing updates.
And holy shit, that new power options icon is hideous. Also, why can I still not use backspace to return to the previous screen? Metro -> App sets App as my last screen that I can go back to. But at the same time it gets set as the previous app when using the win key. Consistency is overrated eh?
Desktop -> Metro: win key toggles between either
Metro -> App: backspace stuck within app. but win key toggles between metro/app.
The real question is why should you ever have to manage resolution? If you really think about it resolution should not matter. Resolution settings have caused a ton of problems in the past for windows and apps. Making that unnecessary to manage will be a good thing which is one of many things metro is aiming to fix.
I find with win8 people really need to take a step back and think about the tasks they are having to manage in windows currently just because that's what they have done for the past 20 years. This is the approach ms is taking imo. Some people call it the dumbing down of windows but I think its more about making windows smarter by letting it manage these tasks for you and not forcing you to waste time manually managing this stuff.
Desktop is absolutely legacy in the same way dos was legacy in the windows timeframe.... at first dos was still used for many things but over time it becomes less and less used. The same will happen with metro as more apps and functionality get moved to metro.
So, I recently bought a new computer, and came across this thread so I decided to download the release preview for fun.
I'm a total laymen with this sort of thing, and I haven't been following the development of Windows 8, so my opinion isn't backed by any sort of knowledge of everything that has gone into (or been taken out of) this project.
But man, I fuckin love the new metro start menu.
It took me awhile to come to terms with how different everything behaves (right click in particular), but once I figured it out navigating the menu became a breeze to me. And I love that everything I use my computer for daily (email, web browser, rss feed, music/video) is just right there in these chic little live tiles - a concept I loved about Windows Phone, and seems to have been taken to the next level with Windows 8.
I guess I can see how some people who make regular use of the advanced functionality of their pc could find metro annoying. But for the casual user like me...man, metro is just sexy and straightforward. And it's not like that extra functionality isn't there. Just tucked away.
If I had any complaint, it's that I wish more things were integrated into Metro. The UI is so chic and fresh, that the illusion is broken for me whenever I have to launch a program that's not an app and I'm taken back to desktop mode (which now just feels really stale and dated). In a future where every major program comes with live tile functionality, I can see Metro being even more awesome than it is now. Maybe even a standard.
That's all I've got.
I'm a total laymen with this sort of thing, and I haven't been following the development of Windows 8, so my opinion isn't backed by any sort of knowledge of everything that has gone into (or been taken out of) this project.
But man, I fuckin love the new metro start menu.
It took me awhile to come to terms with how different everything behaves (right click in particular), but once I figured it out navigating the menu became a breeze to me. And I love that everything I use my computer for daily (email, web browser, rss feed, music/video) is just right there in these chic little live tiles - a concept I loved about Windows Phone, and seems to have been taken to the next level with Windows 8.
I guess I can see how some people who make regular use of the advanced functionality of their pc could find metro annoying. But for the casual user like me...man, metro is just sexy and straightforward. And it's not like that extra functionality isn't there. Just tucked away.
If I had any complaint, it's that I wish more things were integrated into Metro. The UI is so chic and fresh, that the illusion is broken for me whenever I have to launch a program that's not an app and I'm taken back to desktop mode (which now just feels really stale and dated). In a future where every major program comes with live tile functionality, I can see Metro being even more awesome than it is now. Maybe even a standard.
That's all I've got.
Damon Bennet
Member
visualized, psp emu for example.
i know, i know, mad paint skills
im not saying that this would be the most eleganz solution, but i think something like this could prove to be really interesting.
Kilgore Trout
Member
I'm really sick of using an unfinished OS. I know it's my own fault that I don't have my install disc on me, but I ended up using Windows 8 for that reason when I had to reinstall Windows 7 but was unable to.
It freezes, takes forever to start up, and I've had to reinstall it multiple times because there's always something that doesn't work. The first time my disk usage was rocketing to 100% every time I copied or opened a file. Now I can't install .Net Framework 3.5. I've tried every single thing I've found on the internet to no avail.
It freezes, takes forever to start up, and I've had to reinstall it multiple times because there's always something that doesn't work. The first time my disk usage was rocketing to 100% every time I copied or opened a file. Now I can't install .Net Framework 3.5. I've tried every single thing I've found on the internet to no avail.
Damon Bennet
Member
my guess is that people say "legacy app will still run as usual in desktop mode in x86 but not in rt".
legacy programs for desktop -> desktop = legacy
To be fair, network settings have been a mess since Vista. The tried to simplify it from XP, but made it into a mess.
But otherwise I agree with you.
Probably because that is exactly what MS is pushing towards.
Yeah - even to me this seems blatantly obvious. You don't create something like Metro and expect it to work in tandem with the current desktop UI. At least not forever. One's going to cannibalize the other at some point - either Metro will be a success and desktop will slowly disappear, or metro will present a ton of unforeseen problems when 8 launches, in which case it'll be retooled or completely scrapped (though I find that unlikely).
Either way, Desktop's days are numbered. I don't see how that isn't obvious at this point.
That won't happen until the WinRT has surpassed the useability and support (absolutely not W8, and not W9, but possibly some time in the future) of the desktop- and at that point why does it matter? That'd be like pining for the days of MS-DOS now, when there is so much more you can do with the desktop.
Why wouldn't MS change their software to match the change in hardware?
It's no secret that we are moving away from mouse and keyboard interfaces to touch, and while touch is far form perfect, it suites the smaller personal computing that people are moving towards.
I think that if Microsoft had split windows into two operating systems, one for touch and one for desktop, it would have sent a message that they will continue to refine, improve and support the keyboard and mouse interface.
By merging the two together, it has created a seemingly unhappy medium between the two interfaces, and I think touch will unfortunately cannibalise traditional windows.
It's no secret that we are moving away from mouse and keyboard interfaces to touch, and while touch is far form perfect, it suites the smaller personal computing that people are moving towards.
I think that if Microsoft had split windows into two operating systems, one for touch and one for desktop, it would have sent a message that they will continue to refine, improve and support the keyboard and mouse interface.
By merging the two together, it has created a seemingly unhappy medium between the two interfaces, and I think touch will unfortunately cannibalise traditional windows.
Dos took something like 10 years to completely be gone. This current trasition will take a long time too.
That's what I'm saying. If the transition is a success some time in the future no one will care that it dies away and we're left with something better in the future. (Also notice that I did not say metro because the interface -which can be changed as it adapts to needs- is not the platform)
Well first off this is not anything that has come from MS officially at all so we're all just speculating based on what we perceive MS intentions to be so let's not get all definitive about guesses at motivations.
Sure touch/tiles is more attractive to consumers for browsing, casual games, and media playback type applications but keyboard&mouse/desktop is better for other applications like word processing, media editing, spreadsheet/accounting, programming, non casual games etc. And MS makes a whole hell of a lot of money off of those applications (Office, Visual Studios being the two biggest) and have made absolutely no move towards deprecating the desktop version of Office and haven't even attempted to move Visual Studios to Metro.
Further MS is still competing with Mac OSX and Linux on the desktop side of things, why would they give people an excuse to switch to those OSes by crippling their own desktop? The only form in computing where they still dominate?
I don't agree that Win8 desktop is crippled either. Different certainly with right clicking in various corners to get to some functionality that used to live in the Start Menu and others migrating to the Start Metro Screen but every concern about missing functionality seems to have been answered by posters here on where it can be found in Win8 desktop.
There are hundreds of work flows that require or are more efficient when users can size and resize multiple windows on their working space. That's why the desktop exists and if in the future this functionality can live within a Metro or iOS like form then that's great. Until then though desktop is not legacy and I don't see win 8 as a move towards diminishing the importance of it. I see it as MS trying to use their dominant marketshare on the desktop to make a strong play for the new markets of the tablet and the phone.
This is one of the main problems I have with the direction computers are headed in, touch interfaces have nowhere near the amount of power I have simply using keyboard shortcuts.
SeaOfMadness
Member
Uhh.. yes you do, you always click twice for context menus. First, a right click to open the context menu, then a left (or right) click to select the menu item. I think what you're saying is that the second click is quicker because the menu comes up where the mouse pointer is, and that's true. but it's still 2 clicks.
On the other hand, if all you want to do is open an app as administrator, you don't have to do it via the start menu. You have several options:
1) Put a shortcut to the app on the desktop and right click launch as admin from there.
2) Pin the app to the task bar and do the same
3) Set the properties on a shortcut to the app to always run as administrator, then pin *that* one to the start screen. You can have a pinned version of the app for both admin and non-admin this way.
SeaOfMadness
Member
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I haven't used W8 yet, but everything I read about it makes me want to stay on W7 forever. My PC is a PC, not a tablet, so why would I ever want a touch-optimized UI on it?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
The desktop UI is pretty much the same but much improved. The biggest and most controversial change is replacing the old Start menu with the new Start screen.
There are numerous other additions and improvements to the OS that have nothing to do with the Metro side that make the upgrade worthwhile.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
As someone else said, the only way the desktop becomes legacy is if the Metro versions of programs become better than the desktop versions. At that point very few people will care about the desktop.
Metro has a LONG way to go before it can even think of replacing the desktop. For example my Photoshop workspace is spread over 2 monitors. Until you can do that kind of stuff in Metro then it's non-starter in terms of being a complete desktop replacement.
How'd you do this? I still can't get the control panel to work and it doesn't like he put out an updated release
derExperte
Member
And we probably never will because it's the most efficient and comfortable way to do a lot of stuff. You're absolutely right, touch will be an addition and for some scenarios it'll be better or at least good enough but not nearly for everything. I remember MS mentioned a study where they noticed that people just used whatever they thought was best from second to second. Type something via keyboard, then touch something on the screen, use the mouse, touch something, type etc. This will be the future, not 100% touch.
http://laslow.net/2012/03/14/disable-driver-signature-enforcement-in-windows-8-cp/
I followed that 11-step process and it worked perfectly, even the front panel headphone jack which didn't work earlier.
Canis lupus
Member
Will this be a good os for my htpc? Its kinda awkward to navigate through folders and files on my tv.
Marty Chinn
Member
You probably want to use a front end instead of relying on an OS. Check out some of the HTPC threads for different front ends.
For everyone who keeps assuming that the Desktop is "legacy" and will be "going away" in the future, I ask you two questions:
1) Why is it significantly improved in Windows 8 if the longer-term plan is to get rid of it?
2) How exactly do you expect Microsoft to, you know, develop Windows, if there isn't a Desktop on which a complex IDE can reside?
Look at it this way - if the Desktop ever does go away (and there's absolutely no reason to assume that's the case), then it won't be until Metro is drastically evolved enough to the point where Visual Studio, in its exact current form, can exist without any compromises whatsoever.
1) Why is it significantly improved in Windows 8 if the longer-term plan is to get rid of it?
2) How exactly do you expect Microsoft to, you know, develop Windows, if there isn't a Desktop on which a complex IDE can reside?
Look at it this way - if the Desktop ever does go away (and there's absolutely no reason to assume that's the case), then it won't be until Metro is drastically evolved enough to the point where Visual Studio, in its exact current form, can exist without any compromises whatsoever.
i think that is what everyone is saying, metro will evolve over time and gain all of the features of the desktop.
No one is saying the current implementation of metro will make the desktop go away.
My mistake, you are correct about the clicks, it is just much faster.
I know how to make a shortcut, I don't want to add a bunch shortcuts on my desktop or pin more apps to my taskbar. I am starting to understand why some of you like Metro. I can't reasonably pin every app and utility I use to the taskbar or make a shortcut on the desktop. Win7 has something that solves these issues, it's the start menu.
I agree, but that doesn't mean that MS wants it that way.
MS already has desktop apps only for them in ARM. There is no reason why DevStudio and Office could be the only apps that run in desktop. Not that I believe that would happen (because Zabka is right). If MS could get away with it, desktop would be gone for all but MS, DevStudio won't stop anything. I've been told that Win32 is completely on ARM and the only reason preventing Win32 apps from running on ARM is a business decision, so MS is already pretty clearly showing this to be their future direction.
Now you're assuming that not only the Desktop is legacy, but that ARM will be the exclusive architecture in the future too? Are you mad?
You're forgetting that the only reason why Microsoft can lock down the Desktop on ARM is because Windows RT was designed and will be marketed as a brand new platform, essentially starting from scratch. If they tried to do the same thing with normal x86 Windows, the entire legal world would explode on them in ways much worse than it ever did in the 2000s.
This is what I think will happen. Metro can evolve to handle more intricate applications, no doubt about that. The only issue here is the marketplace. Metro apps have to be sold through the marketplace. Adobe will not want to give MS a 30% cut of their sales. This will have to change for the desktop to go away.
MS just wants people to buy Angry Birds and other crap on their desktops.
Windows 8 Enterprise can bypass the store for Metro apps, not that I'd ever advise people to use a touch-styled version of an app on the desktop.
MS really needs to get their code monkeys working on the Music app because it's frustrating crap.
Windows 8 Enterprise can bypass the store for Metro apps, not that I'd ever advise people to use a touch-styled version of an app on the desktop.
MS really needs to get their code monkeys working on the Music app because it's frustrating crap.
I don't see the desktop ever going completely away.... they do still have dos in windows 8. But you will use it less and less over time until you basically never use it (just like dos in windows). I think most would say the dos prompt in windows "has gone away".... same thing will happen here.
As to your points..
1. Is the desktop really that improved? Outside a few minor tweaks very little has changed from win7. The biggest thing is the ribbon and theme both of which did not require any major re-writing of windows and not worth of a major release (metro on the otherhand is).
2. Just like office will eventually get metroized the dev tools will too.... there was only so much work they could do for win8 and they focused on other things. I personally would prefer they focus on things and do them right vs doing what they normally do and have everything in there but its a buggy mess.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Is there a good place to follow day-to-day updates an improvements, including the release of apps?
Where did I say anything of the sort? I'm saying they already set a precedent of Desktop apps only for them. They can easily make DevStudio run under desktop and still close it off to third party developers.
I agree they would get a lot of bad feedback, it's in the post you quoted. The legal stuff is a different subject, your point was they couldn't do it technically because of supporting DevStudio.
The "precedent" of desktop apps only for them exists only on Windows RT. Windows RT is only ARM. ARM will never be the exclusive architecture for Windows.
So using the Music tile, I can go and look at some suggested music etc. But how do I actually search for a particular artist? I can't seem to find a search function anywhere.
Edit: Nevermind, go to the right corner and scroll to the Search section. I've forgotten more of Windows 8 than I thought.
Edit: Okay, why does the music go lower when I exit the Music section?!
Edit: Nevermind, go to the right corner and scroll to the Search section. I've forgotten more of Windows 8 than I thought.
Edit: Okay, why does the music go lower when I exit the Music section?!
Iced_Eagle
Member
Use the search charm to search.
Ignatz Mouse: Nope. When it releases, I expect some new sites to pop out which will focus on the app store though. Right now it's limited what you can release on the store, so there's not a flood of apps anyways.
brotkasten
Member
As if killing the home button wasn't enough, Microsoft also killed Windows Home Server. 
Marty Chinn
Member
As if killing the home button wasn't enough, Microsoft also killed Windows Home Server.
Wait what? When was this announced?
brotkasten
Member
Today, when they announced the Windows Server 2012 SKUs.
Difference is, Server 2012 Essentials starts at $425.
I got WHS v1 for about $99.
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