saltywalrus
Member
Google products share a lot of code, but they realize that each form factor needs a different UI. That's why they have different UIs for phones, 7" tablets, 10" tablets, laptops and TVs.
Windows 8 Release Preview
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Google products share a lot of code, but they realize that each form factor needs a different UI. That's why they have different UIs for phones, 7" tablets, 10" tablets, laptops and TVs.
all those ui's and not a single good one. Mabye they should make a few dozen more.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Or they could try to design a UI that works on all of them equally well such as what Microsoft is doing.
I'm as fast or faster on Win8 than I was on Win7 and on my tablet Win8 is a HUGE improvement from Win7 and I'm running the exact same software on both. Not light versions or stripped down versions of that software but the same.
MS is on the right track with this OS. It's not perfect and it will improve over time but their direction is sound.
saltywalrus
Member
Right now MS has different UIs for Windows Phone, Xbox, Media Center, Windows 8 Metro and Windows 8 desktop. They share some similarities, but Android on different devices shares even more similarities and also includes binary compatibility.
It's possible to run a dumbed down UI on all devices that is not tailored to the benefits of each device, but why would anyone want that?
Is Surface Microsoft's confession that Windows 8 isn't really cut out for tablets?
http://arstechnica.com/information-...at-windows-8-isnt-really-cut-out-for-tablets/
http://arstechnica.com/information-...at-windows-8-isnt-really-cut-out-for-tablets/
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'd say it's more like they want to push Office, and a competitive advantage over other tablets (more suitable for school and business), and also just an answer to tablet usability issues (tons of people are using iPads with bluetooth keyboards, and it's kind of ridiculous).
If the next iPad or Android tablet came with a keyboard smart cover I would have thought it was a good idea, so it's kind of unfortunate that we have to look at it in terms of "this is what Microsoft is compensating for".
Author gets eviscerated in the comments section.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I'm not understanding your point.
A phone is not a PC. A gaming console is not a PC. A media program is certainly not a PC.
A tablet is a PC, a laptop is a PC, a netbook is a PC, a desktop computer is a PC.
Like your Android example Windows 8 Phones will share a lot of core OS with Win8. We don't know about the next Xbox but it likely will as well. Those, however, are specialty devices that while sharing some basic functions with a PC are not the same thing.
When we talk about unifying the experience we're talking about across various PC hardware configurations. PC computing has long been the domain of desktops and laptops but many other form factors are emerging and may even pass the old form factors in terms of units sold in the next few years. What we need is an OS that works well on ALL of them.
Some people seem to keep saying that the Metro start screen is a tablet UI forced onto a desktop OS but all the complaints I've heard about why that is seem hollow and often misinformed. It works great on a desktop PC AND on tablets. I would guess most of those complaining barely used the OS for any significant length of time as their primary OS. After learning and getting used to the new workflows I don't see how anyone can say that they're slower overall at using their PC than they were before because of Metro. There may be some instances where the old Start menu was better, but there are many more instances where Metro works much better and faster. It's not "dumbed down" it's simply different.
Robobandit
Member
I still think that having the desktop on Windows RT tablets is a mistake.
The metro UI itself is excellent for touch... as expected, it is the desktop where it becomes somewhat of a problem.
They really should be doing a separate metro version of Office 2013.. like they are doing for OneNote.
Maybe it was simply a time-constraint issue, but it seems ridiculous to me to have a desktop UI on a tablet when it can't even run legacy desktop programs due to the different architecture. (ARM vs x86)
The metro UI itself is excellent for touch... as expected, it is the desktop where it becomes somewhat of a problem.
They really should be doing a separate metro version of Office 2013.. like they are doing for OneNote.
Maybe it was simply a time-constraint issue, but it seems ridiculous to me to have a desktop UI on a tablet when it can't even run legacy desktop programs due to the different architecture. (ARM vs x86)
lunarworks
Member
Service packs. That one's always funny. Because they're point releases, amirite?
By that definition, Windows 7 (v6.1) is a service pack for Windows Vista (v6.0), and so is Windows 8 (v6.2).
But any talking point to further your idea that I'm "resistant to change" works, I suppose.
As for iOS, I'd honestly welcome big changes to it.
Wiktor
Member
To make that reality we need bigger tablets. Netbooks were utter shit and tablets with docs are bassicaly netbooks.
I wouldn't say tablets are replacing laptops though. It seems the future is a convergence of both of those form factors. I mean, just because I can remove screen from my laptop doesn't suddenly make it not a laptop anymore.
its funny because you don't know what your talking about. The reason 7 and 8 are . Releases is to keep compatibility with installers. When vista came out ms included a check in the installers to check for version 6.x . So now ms is stuck on that naming scheme.
I was talking about the adaptability of the underlying OS.
lunarworks
Member
It's funny because I do know what I'm talking about. I know the reason it is defined internally as 6.2. I've known this reason since the Windows 7 pre-releases.
OS X goes by a specific naming scheme too. The current one is "OS Ten (the name of the OS), version Eight".
But hey, being all nitpicky, if 10.8 is a "service pack", then 6.2 is also a "service pack".
Day 4 and I still like it. I don't think I'll switch back to 7 before official release.
I do have one problem though. I loaded up WoW and was playing as normal. But everytime I need to mouse over to the corner (map, bags, etc) those darn black bars pop up. Anyway to disable that while certain apps are running?
I do have one problem though. I loaded up WoW and was playing as normal. But everytime I need to mouse over to the corner (map, bags, etc) those darn black bars pop up. Anyway to disable that while certain apps are running?
Strange, that doesn't happen for me.
I never experienced this in the CP, but I'm currently playing a game in full screen on my laptop (screen is 16:9 but game is 4:3) and when My mouse movements tend to move the cursor to the left or right of the screen, the cursor will show up on the edge and any clicks or button presses will cause me to go to the desktop and have the windows or charms sidebar triggered. Is there a way to tell windows to not do this in full screen mode?
Shell integration has always been a problem with games, there is nothing that windows can do about it afaik
If you're not playing at your native res it would probably be better to play it in a window though. May give different results too.
If the game is set to run as a genuine full-screen game, the charms/corners stuff won't show up. However, if you're using one of the "Windowed full-screen" modes that Valve's games come with now (and maybe WoW too?), the OS won't know that it's supposed to disable the hot corners.
So sad that the RTM UI still feels like a mish-mash of randomly thought out designs. Some things I've noticed.
1. It's hilarious that setting the color to black (or even any semi-dark color) makes the Windows Explorer title bars unreadable and the min/max buttons barely visible. How does no one notice this? SMH.
2. Vista icons. Seriously, spend all this time flattening and "Metro-ing" the look but these nasty icons are still here? They look fucking terrible and TBH, if MS wasn't going to bother changing them, they should've just left Aero because the UI looks like it was made by an amateur.
3. The view change buttons at the bottom right of Windows Explorer doesn't even allow you to put it back to the default tiles view.
4. Everything about the Windows Explorer title bars are bad except the close button. Quick icons there look out of place and I don't know if they could've picked a worse font for it.
5. Metro-ization of Windows Explorer is so, so, so half assed.
Easy to see why so many are moving to OS X when MS doesn't even care about crafting an OS that's enjoyable to use and look at. I'll still upgrade from 7 but they could have (and probably should have) done so much more to refine the OS. Especially considering they already had Win 7 AND Win Phone 7 as a starting point.
It's also funny showing Win 8 to friends and seeing every person instinctively hit esc to "quit" a Metro app. No one seems to know how to get out of them, haha.
1. It's hilarious that setting the color to black (or even any semi-dark color) makes the Windows Explorer title bars unreadable and the min/max buttons barely visible. How does no one notice this? SMH.
2. Vista icons. Seriously, spend all this time flattening and "Metro-ing" the look but these nasty icons are still here? They look fucking terrible and TBH, if MS wasn't going to bother changing them, they should've just left Aero because the UI looks like it was made by an amateur.
3. The view change buttons at the bottom right of Windows Explorer doesn't even allow you to put it back to the default tiles view.
4. Everything about the Windows Explorer title bars are bad except the close button. Quick icons there look out of place and I don't know if they could've picked a worse font for it.
5. Metro-ization of Windows Explorer is so, so, so half assed.
Easy to see why so many are moving to OS X when MS doesn't even care about crafting an OS that's enjoyable to use and look at. I'll still upgrade from 7 but they could have (and probably should have) done so much more to refine the OS. Especially considering they already had Win 7 AND Win Phone 7 as a starting point.
It's also funny showing Win 8 to friends and seeing every person instinctively hit esc to "quit" a Metro app. No one seems to know how to get out of them, haha.
This a thousand times. I was constantly alt-tabbing out of them after giving them a look until someone here told me to "drag" them down. Is it so hard to include an "X" in a corner if it detects you're working with a mouse? Honestly, the whole Metro stuff and how the system throws you back and forth both interfaces (as you cannot completely escape from Metro at all if you're on Desktop) is a complete user-unfriendly and anti-intuitive mess. I can't even make sense of Metro on its own if it was just a tablet OS. I mean, how would a tablet user "right click" to show all aps or pin/un-pin/uninstall apps? Or instinctively tap a hidden area in the bottom-right corner to change options or shut down completely? (especially when the other two main mobile OSs have a "Settings" app of some sort where everything is held together) It's as confusing as it gets as the main point of a tablet OS is laying everything you might need at the reach of your fingertip. Hiding stuff away from the user like "he is most likely so stupid or computer-illiterate that he's never going to use it anyway" is NEVER a good idea.
Seriously, I was really "sold" on the idea of a 40 bucks upgrade but after a lot of time of use and some blog reading from people from inside the gaming industry (not some GAF peasants) both professional and indie expressing their (most likely funded, probably due to MS already addressing at them) worries about the blatant attempt at walling the PC garden, not so much anymore. It feels like a trainwreck.
I think every one of those points is because the desktop is not the priority anymore.... time spent making the desktop better would have taken away from the priority of making metro as good as possible at launch which is more important going forward. What they did in the desktop was remove the graphical bits of aero so they could make it as battery efficient as possible which lead to the frankenstein desktop.
Also that comment about quitting a metro app is very much a hardware issue too.... when you get new devices they will all have that windows button at the bottom of the bezel and then will not be an issue..... but all upgraded devices won't have that button so its more confusing to switch apps.
On tablet, to open the charms bar, you swipe from the right. "Right click" (opening the menu) is a swipe from bottom.
Frustrated_me
Member
Verge found this:
Steelyuhas
Member
Part of the "getting out" of Metro applications that is an issue is that users have this inherent attempt to try to "close" an app, while the Metro applications are not designed to be closed. Just something that people will have to adjust to.
I seriously wouldn't have come to that solution by myself at all, and I've been using computers since I was 10, when I got my first MS-DOS based 386, and pretty much trouble-shooting myself. I mean, in Android or iOS there's at least some "item" to swipe down (the status bar) but in Metro there's nothing at all. It feels weird doing gestures without any kind of "hint" about what you are able to do. Even some translucent arrows or "handles" in the edges of the screen hinting there's an active area at a global level you can "pull" to reveal more information would be better than nothing. I bet that expecting people to instinctively know they can swipe from the edges to have additional options without any kind of hint is like a big red "FUCK NO" in any software usability manual. Seriously, I've tried every kind of OS both desktop and mobile, every single flavour of Linux and dozens of different desktop paradigms and Metro is the first time in my life I've felt completely lost on how to do even the most basic stuff.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Dunno if this has been posted:
http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/19289/report-next-xbox-console-will-support-windows-8
http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/19289/report-next-xbox-console-will-support-windows-8
Something something convergence of software.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
It's is something you only need to be shown once. Remember UAC? Apparently people don't like to be shown the similar information repeatedly.
Anton Sugar
Member
Is that new, or just based off the same rumor that came out late last year?
Is there any evidence to suggest that that is at all true?
They tell you how to access the charms bar during the initial setup.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Maybe he did, but do you actually believe that MS want to make the Win8 metro style interface for every device they have (PC, Mobile, Tablets) EXCEPT the Xbox? Come on now, its fairly obvious even without a confirmation.
The 360 already has metro style interface.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Yes but what their goal is is to make the transition between going from your PC, to mobile to Xbox seamless. No having to re-relearn the interface of the different platforms. Xbox360 is metro-ish. Next gen might be Win8 altogether.
It's most likely based off the old rumour (as well as them reading too much into a statement). Here's where he briefly mentions the new Xbox.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
"Telling it like it is" versus "telling something" is inherently a difference in accuracy. The author is inferring that the next 360 will ship with a copy of Windows 8 installed and that's silly inaccurate based on MS's own past and existing track record. MS has always had a history of shipping variants of their OS's kernels on different form-factors; this isn't a surprise but if this author's words are accurate, theres no difference between what's on your PC and what will be running on the next Xbox.
Now I'm reading too much into his statement and I remember what my math teacher told me about rounding estimates
That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Tablet specific features seems to have slithered into my desktop and I can't make them go away.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Yes that's what i assume as well. I'm not expecting a retail Win8 installed on it without any types of changes. It'll be the equivalent of what they'd do for a mobile device i would think. I doubt that MS will just open Xbox like that, unless they "close" the PC one too.
There isn't. Very, very few people are moving to OS X from Windows.
However, they are going to iOS, and the numbers show it. In fact, iOS is taking users away from both Windows and OS X. At a fairly brisk clip, too.
Why are you using the Metro interface to do these things?
Yes, but apart from superficial changes, the basic Windows UI has remained exactly the same for 17 years. So why would you have to take longer than a few minutes to relearn something you've been using for years?
I'm sure if you were somebody who was using DOS for years you probably would have reacted the same way to the original start menu. I know plenty of people did.
Edit: But really these arguments have been done to death in every single Windows 8 thread, so I'd rather not continue the trend.
Well, that was one extreme case of people that worked in text-only and then changed to a mouse-operated GUI, it's a huge paradigm switch that needs time to adjust to. However now we're talking about switching between different kind of GUIs, something that, as I said, never should take more than a minute to find where all the programs and where the settings are which is the bare essential to start working (and mind me, all it took in Windows 95 was clicking that fancy "Start" button to instantly see both). If that's hidden behind invisible buttons to the point of making experienced people feel like they're in front of "Fisher Price's My First PC"... well, let me say your engineers fail at basic UX design.
Which button are you referring to?
Apologies. Meant start button.
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