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[Ellis]

PC surely has to be the largest market, so of course it's mainstream, but it will never be as accessible to the average crowds who just want to play FIFA or the next big AAA shooter. Consoles that sell aren't going anywhere. Xbox being in such an abysmal position doesn't affect Sony and Nintendo in the slightest. You can't compare a slight drop in yearly hardware sales for them to the complete nosedive in Xbox Series hardware.

 

[Pimpbaa]

As bad as the Xbox numbers are, I expected worse. Surprised that many bought it considering its rather iffy status. Then again probably lots out there clueless about the many fuckups MS have been doing for the past few years and more so lately.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Let's be honest, @RetroGamingUK is bothered and calling for it to be a banned source because it's windows central, the arch nemesis of many on GAF, there's absolutely nothing wrong with their reporting here

Let's be honest, there's plenty wrong with windows central and the ball washing they do for Microsoft.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Let's be honest, there's plenty wrong with windows central and the ball washing they do for Microsoft.

Yeah, but Adam is either never going to get that or gets that but he is heck bent on carrying water for MS no matter what. What he thinks or not does not seem to matter…

 

[Danny22]

So after a bit of research, I think windows central has a point:

1. Nov 1994: Estimated ~2.0M+ Units. This was a peak "16-bit" holiday.
2. Finding a November with sales lower than the 1.4 million units of 1995 requires going back quite deep into the early 80s
3. To find a number lower than 1.4 million, you have to look at the years before the SNES/Genesis peak and the years immediately following the Great Video Game Crash of 1983.

4. For contrast, the highest November on record was November 2008, which saw over 8 million units sold in North America.

Given that prices will keep rising even more next year, I'm assuming this number will go further down? Possibly less than a million? Kind of exciting, we're looking at a potential pretty major collapse of the physical console market (if worldwide trends are similar to US as they usually are). It's time for core platforms to remain niche and become a luxury as AI (and investment in it) isn't going anywhere soon. Maybe via AI (upscaling), we can get far more advanced games running on old platforms.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Not really? Xbox gamers love engagement. I'm just surprised to see it embraced like this.

No one on Xbox is tracking hardware sales at this point. They're transitioning to PC, and multiplatform. Even the Series prices now are unsubsidized.

I wonder how is it working for Xbox…

 

[Maogp]

Christ, this thread is full of 12 year old "Copium, Jez cries, Microsoft gets worse, Windows Central downplays it." Grow up.


Back IT, great, I hope Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo have the worst Christmas in the last 2,000 years.
This gen has made me hate them like never before. The price increases (jesus even for the Switch 1, which is a potato) are ridiculous and fucking annoying. These companies make billions upon billions, you can't whine if RAM increases for you by 10 cents per unit and with that excuse you increase the price of the consoles several times. I mean fuck off. Really fuck off.

You can easily absorb a 0.5% loss in the grand scheme of things. These companies have become greedy beyond the limit because you consider me an idiot. The line has been passed.
I hope the industry collapses. There's always the PC and the indie world, we'll never run out of video games.

Fuck you Sony, greedy as fuck.
Fuck you Microsoft. Stupid as fuck.
Nintendo you are lucky for your first party, but yeah fuck you too.

 

[Drew1440]

The market has chosen PC gaming, nothing Nintendo and Sony can do about that.

I've been hearing this ever since they introduced SVGA cards on PC, consoles aren't going anywhere so long as they remain cheap and accessible.

 

[Steve Holt]

The way Jez and the gang try to get in the way of all negative Xbox news/headlines and spin it will never not be funny.

 

[Three]

I've been hearing this ever since they introduced SVGA cards on PC, consoles aren't going anywhere so long as they remain cheap and accessible.

It's even more funny because they are talking about US gaming spend where "the market" most certainly have NOT chosen PC.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I'm going to break in on prime time television and blame president Biden for this.

 

[KungFucius]

Just a few days ago there was another thread predicting a big increase in the industry revenue so this is another bullshit article by the usual suspect.

How is it bullshit when console sales are actually down? You could argue that last year saw PS5 Pro and that inflated the numbers for people upgrading, but that is not new PS5 owners. Obviously Xbox is a joke, but reduced PS5 sales while discounted to last year's prices beat the new Switch. It's a sign that something is off. Prices may be too high for people to jump in and this could lead to other gaming options getting more popular. At the very least it is concerning. Not gloom and doom, but it makes the old days when consoles got cheaper, sold a shit ton later in the cycle and platform owners put out a lot of great, late gen games.

 

[wolffy66]

The "engagement" metrics don't suggest a downturn in interest. People are more selective with their money given the economic environment, common sense.

And they're not going for Xbox.

If that were the entire story, the other brands would be way up due to all the new customers. Theres really no great way to frame this for gaming. Maybe its just the economy. Maybe people have been so heavily into gaming since covid that it had no where to go but down. Either way, its clearly trending down.

 

[Three]

If that were the entire story, the other brands would be way up due to all the new customers. Theres really no great way to frame this for gaming. Maybe its just the economy. Maybe people have been so heavily into gaming since covid that it had no where to go but down. Either way, its clearly trending down.

Entire US spending is down:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fgh3l715g9m5g1.png

Why would the other brands be way up? They would be way up in marketshare, and they were. Not in total.

 

[adamsapple]

Let's be honest, there's plenty wrong with windows central and the ball washing they do for Microsoft.

Cool.

Point it out when you see it, unfortunately there's nothing wrong with their reporting here.

 

[Three]

Cool.

Point it out when you see it, unfortunately there's nothing wrong with their reporting here.

There isn't anything wrong by which I assume you mean incorrect but the framing from Windows Central is always biased towards xbox. US spending has collapsed (not just gaming) but that wouldn't explain the abysmal marketshare of sales from xbox this November. That's still xbox collapsing.

 

[adamsapple]

There isn't anything wrong by which I assume you mean incorrect but the framing from Windows Central is always biased towards xbox. US spending has collapsed (not just gaming) but that wouldn't explain the abysmal marketshare of sales from xbox this November. That's still xbox collapsing.

 

[mdkirby]

Many factors at play here:

1. Xbox has cratered its hardware business
2. Cloud gaming is a thing some users will just be doing that.
3. Hardware is increasingly expensive and the economy is shit.
4. Younger generation gamers have been psychologically manipulated to be incredibly addicted to a few limited dopamine machine forever games that don't need new hardware and run on potatoes.
5. Younger generations (well, and everyone) are addicted to doom scrolling socials, leaving little time for gaming.
6. Product appeal to core demographics has been weakened in an effort to find new "modern audience" markets, that have largely failed, but have weakened the appeal both in terms of product but also front of shop marketing appeal to young male gamers, who are increasingly right wing. Many of the headline games that would typically drive new hardware sales are an active turn off for this core demographic. Regardless of any ideological side anyone takes, this is just what it is.
7. Limited innovation, diminishing returns. There's really no longer a big jump, people can be quite content with what they have, and if they are going to get a new device, they may feel "I've held out this long, I may as well wait for ps6" etc.
8. Stagnant "safe" software approach from the developers who would typically create games that drive hardware sales. Money men have made these games safe and boring.
9. Loss of identity. Consoles (except Nintendo) are well on the way to becoming just PC adjacent, losing their edge and unique identities.
10. Loss of exclusivity (except Nintendo), pc efforts of both ms and Sony mean pc gamers who may have bought consoles will just choose not to.

No single one of these would drive a collapse in hardware sales, but all together can certainly have a deleterious effect…which is what we're seeing.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There isn't anything wrong by which I assume you mean incorrect but the framing from Windows Central is always biased towards xbox. US spending has collapsed (not just gaming) but that wouldn't explain the abysmal marketshare of sales from xbox this November. That's still xbox collapsing.

Damage Control for MS (SonyToo) is such a second nature for some that sometimes I am almost not sure they are aware.

 

[Three]

I don't get it, the headline for Windows central isn't that. It's this

And that's what he means by "windows central and the ball washing they do for Microsoft."

It tries to make xbox's marketshare collapse to 6:1 and being outsold by NEX seem like a wider console problem. Even goes as far as stanning for Next Xbox/PC hybrid in the article. As if that is going to fair better at $1000 or whatever. The hardware figures are all gaming hardware and PC accessories. Hell there is a decline in spending overall for everything. I'm not sure how WC thinks an expensive next xbox is the solution MS figured out to selling more units.
what people mention about xbox is related to how it has fallen. being outsold by NEX and PS5 selling 6 times it. Nobody has really said the economy isn't in the shitter. It's windows centrals framing of it as usual that's bullshit ball washing for Microsoft. That's what's wrong with it.

 

[adamsapple]

It tries to make xbox's marketshare collapse to 6:1 and being outsold by NEX seem like a wider console problem.

Isn't it?

Either you think the worst hardware results in 30 years isn't a wider console problem.

Or you think Xbox's sales alone are the direct cause of that result, which would be pretty impressive for what some have been calling a 'dead console' for a long while.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Cool.

Point it out when you see it, unfortunately there's nothing wrong with their reporting here.

You know exactly what I meant, no need to take a bullet for... *checks paper*... Windows Central.

If a new outlet tomorrow called HermanHulstisdaddy.com/triangle/cross/circle/square puts an article saying "never mind that Concord failed, as actually the majority of GaaS fail, so nothing to see here", something tells me you would have a problem with that framing too

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Isn't it?

Either you think the worst hardware results in 30 years isn't a wider console problem.

Or you think Xbox's sales alone are the direct cause of that result, which would be pretty impressive for what some have been calling a 'dead console' for a long while.

Adam come on man..
Xbox being out sold by whatever that thing is (I haven't bothered to even look it up) is 100% a Xbox problem whether the market is down or not. I know you're an Xbox fan and while I give you I never you egregiously dense but you know damn well that Windows Central and Jez have a notorious Xbox bias.

Their article literally starts with "No, it's not just Xbox" as a way to be like hey guys I know people are talking about Xbox negatively right now but talk about the other guys too in a way to try to deflect and you know that's what it is. The same way that every single time there is any negative Xbox news Jez has something to say to either discount it or try to combat it with something positive out of nowhere.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

People need to stop getting salty about factual reporting. Yes every console was down big time this holiday. Yes Xbox was down more. But if Xbox being down more makes you feel better about your own system being 40% down, you need to let the console war go. This fall was a bad look for everyone, but a worse look for Xbox.

Sony fans this month are like the equivalent of poor racist white people voting for Trump, not because they think Trump will make their lives better, but because it'll make minorities' lives worse.

 

[Unknown?]

Sony fans this month are like the equivalent of poor white people voting for Trump, not because they think Trump will make their lives better, but because it'll make minorities' lives worse.

Pure retardium. Stop watching mainstream news.

 

[Three]

Isn't it?

No? There are two separate issues here. Xbox's marketshare collapse and an economic downturn (which is not specifically a "console problem" either). Both can be true at the same time. If it was not an xbox problem but purely a downturn xbox would simply have the same share of a smaller pie. That's not the case though. Xbox has a much smaller share of a smaller pie. To the point where a previously unknown device called NEX has a bigger share of that pie than xbox and PS having a piece that is 6 times larger than it. The size of the pie is irrelevant. Windows central's spin is that no xbox isn't in trouble it's "consoles". Ok we're in an economic downturn doesn't mean xbox doesn't have a problem that extends far beyond that.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

People need to stop getting salty about factual reporting. Yes every console was down big time this holiday. Yes Xbox was down more. But if Xbox being down more makes you feel better about your own system being 40% down, you need to let the console war go. This fall was a bad look for everyone, but a worse look for Xbox.

Sony fans this month are like the equivalent of poor white people voting for Trump, not because they think Trump will make their lives better, but because it'll make minorities' lives worse.

 

[adamsapple]

People need to stop getting salty about factual reporting. Yes every console was down big time this holiday. Yes Xbox was down more. But if Xbox being down more makes you feel better about your own system being 40% down, you need to let the console war go. This fall was a bad look for everyone, but a worse look for Xbox.

The article starts with a factually correct statement:

It is easy to point the finger at Xbox lately, and sometimes for good reason. Online discourse often centres on the brand. November 2025, however, tells a slightly different story, with data pointing to a market-wide downturn affecting every major console platform, not just Xbox.

Is Xbox down? yes of course.
Are all the consoles down? also yes of course.

Windows central's spin is that no xbox isn't in trouble it's "consoles"

It's not WC's spin, it's Circana's direct reporting.

Hardware
Monthly hardware spending dropped by 27% when compared to a year ago, to $695M. This is the lowest video game hardware spending total for a November month since the $455M reached during the November 2005 tracking period.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Pure retardium. Stop watching mainstream news.

One man's retardium is another man's genius. Just a matter of perspective really.

Spoiler

for the record I'm a centrist and I hate all politicians. Not looking for a political argument.

 

[GoldenEye98]

Console market is shrinking. In theory if Xbox is down 30M units...PS5 should be up by 30M over where PS4 was...but it's not. It may not even match PS4.

 

[Unknown?]

It's not WC's spin, it's Circana's direct reporting.

It leaves out any sort of critical thinking to farm hits because it's a "shocking" headline but circana has no real analysis because it's not their job to do so.

Windows Central tries to use the lack of analysis as an opportunity to frame as everyone being in trouble but is really a poor analysis.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

It leaves out any sort of critical thinking to farm hits because it's a "shocking" headline but circana has no real analysis because it's not their job to do so.

Windows Central tries to use the lack of analysis as an opportunity to frame as everyone being in trouble but is really a poor analysis.

I mean, if the November trend isnt corrected, everyone IS in trouble. It's just that Xbox is more in trouble and we all know that. The article even knows that.

The thing is before November we already knew Xbox was dead and continuing to massively decline. In that context I don't think Xbox' performance during November is that noteworthy, but PS5 and Switch 2 performance is extremely noteworthy.

 

[adamsapple]

I mean, if the November trend any corrected, everyone IS in trouble. It's just that Xbox is more in trouble and we all know that. The article even knows that.

Yep.

Is WC the beacon of reporting? No. But they are not saying anything wrong here. I guess the only issue here is that it's Windows Central saying it, not some other outlet ????

 

[Humdinger]

Come on, Adam. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

 

[adamsapple]

Come on, Adam. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

Adam come on man..

I didn't sign up for no intervention.

 

[Unknown?]

I mean, if the November trend isnt corrected, everyone IS in trouble. It's just that Xbox is more in trouble and we all know that. The article even knows that.

The thing is before November we already knew Xbox was dead and continuing to massively decline. In that context I don't think Xbox' performance during November is that noteworthy, but PS5 and Switch 2 performance is extremely noteworthy.

Sure but one month's of data is premature to call that and it isn't due to lack of demand like it is with Xbox, it has larger factors at play that are not mentioned by the article.

The biggest factor is price in a very weak economy(I'd argue we've been in a recession since covid[or at least 2022] despite what the government numbers say). Switch 2 is way more expensive than the original, PS5 is still launch price, Xbox is the most expensive console of all time with no appeal. PS5 Pro launched last year which boosted sells a bit. The Holiday's strongest traditional game(COD) was weak compared to normal, no big must have titles released this holiday season.

So there are issues but it doesn't show any trend like suggested.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

"All consoles are down, some one are just down way more than others."

When I saw the source, I too, had a sensible chuckle. They aren't wrong, it's just comically laughable that they would include the other consoles, even if they are down, because the Xbox has almost always been in the same sales position, minus the 360 days. ROFL!

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Sure but one month's of data is premature to call that and it isn't due to lack of demand like it is with Xbox, it has larger factors at play that are not mentioned by the article.

The biggest factor is price in a very weak economy(I'd argue we've been in a recession since covid[or at least 2022] despite what the government numbers say). Switch 2 is way more expensive than the original, PS5 is still launch price, Xbox is the most expensive console of all time with no appeal. PS5 Pro launched last year which boosted sells a bit. The Holiday's strongest traditional game(COD) was weak compared to normal, no big must have titles released this holiday season.

So there are issues but it doesn't show any trend like suggested.

I don't disagree with you at all.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

"All consoles are down, some one are just down way more than others."

Damn, I was looking for the "He's out of line but he's right" gif (referring to all consoles being down) but can't find it here

 

[yurinka]

Argument #1 is that these are broad trends. Xbox is affected first because they're in last place, but it's coming for all consoles. Declines in interest in younger generations, spiking hardware costs upending the traditional subsidization model, economic downturn.

PlayStation and Switch have their active userbases and game revenues at record levels and growing, there isn't any decline in interest there.

PS5 has a decline YoY because it's expected in the 5th year of a console, consoles at that point have passed their peak year and go down YoY. But launch aligned, it's performing pretty much like PS4, and above it in countries like US. It's also worth mentioning that last year PS had the PS5 Pro release, which caused a bump.

The only decline in interest is in Xbox, who keeps losing more and more market share and launch aligned keeps worsening its comparision versus their previous gen console.

 

[chromatic9]

 

[RayBoy]

 

[Klayzer]

Lol. The want the whole industry to burn, just because Xbox is receiving hospice treatment from Microsoft.

 

[Unknown?]

Lol. The want the whole industry to burn, just because Xbox is receiving hospice treatment from Microsoft.

Hospice would be nice and dignified like Sega did. Microsoft just dumped it in a ditch on the side of the road.

 

[Sooner]

Xbox fans still acting like Sony, Nintendo and Xbox all just add the revenue together and divide by 3 to split evenly.