Yes you're right if they follow the Qualcomm roadmap it'll eventually come to WP but the question is how long will it take. I don't think it's silly that they keep pushing the technology forward even if it's not necessarily needed rather than settle for what we have right now. Looking forward to WP 8.1 but also looking beyond that as well.
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Windows Phone |OT3 Update 3| Please be excited
- Thread starter brotkasten
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Yes you're right if they follow the Qualcomm roadmap it'll eventually come to WP but the question is how long will it take. I don't think it's silly that they keep pushing the technology forward even if it's not necessarily needed rather than settle for what we have right now. Looking forward to WP 8.1 but also looking beyond that as well.
Good article from Thurrott on Microsoft's problem with Windows (that also applies to Windows Phone): http://windowsitpro.com/windows/facing-biggest-problem-windows-2014
I mostly agree with the article. I just don't think there's anything Microsoft can do about it. 2014 won't be a pivotal year for Windows. They've already lost.
I mostly agree with the article. I just don't think there's anything Microsoft can do about it. 2014 won't be a pivotal year for Windows. They've already lost.
Just being realistic
Of course Windows will stick around forever, but Android simply has won mobile. Now it's up to Microsoft to support Android as best they can.
As long as OEMs don't jump ship and focus on Windows products, nothing is going to change. People won't magically decide they want the less marketed, more expensive tablet which also comes with less apps.
It's too early to tell.
Tablets haven't yet entered the mainstream, or probably more accurately are only now beginning to enter the mainstream.
We'll see how Windows Tablets fared in Q4, but my feeling is that it's not as horrible as everyone seems to make out.
Once tablets do enter the mainstream (ie older people and non gadget freaks starting to buy them in real numbers), then we'll see how Windows really fares. I'd say if their market-share isn't too far behind Android (keeping the ratio to around 2:1 or maybe even 3:1) over the next few months, they have an excellent chance to capture a significant portion of the market in the long term.
We will see.
On the phone side, you're seeing Windows Phone pushing over 10 % in almost all European markets. I don't know why that trend should slow down now that the ecosystem has finally started to catch up with that of the others. I suspect we will see WP at close to 20 % across Europe this time next year, outselling Apple in most countries.
Is that something that can be celebrated considering it will be almost exclusively done on the back of low cost hardware and first time smartphone buyers? I don't know, but I also think that in the long term it will ensure that the high end market will start to significantly grow for WP too.
I think we'll see a similar situations on the tablet front once MS make both WP and RT free (or almost free) for OEM's.
Tablets haven't yet entered the mainstream, or probably more accurately are only now beginning to enter the mainstream.
We'll see how Windows Tablets fared in Q4, but my feeling is that it's not as horrible as everyone seems to make out.
Once tablets do enter the mainstream (ie older people and non gadget freaks starting to buy them in real numbers), then we'll see how Windows really fares. I'd say if their market-share isn't too far behind Android (keeping the ratio to around 2:1 or maybe even 3:1) over the next few months, they have an excellent chance to capture a significant portion of the market in the long term.
We will see.
On the phone side, you're seeing Windows Phone pushing over 10 % in almost all European markets. I don't know why that trend should slow down now that the ecosystem has finally started to catch up with that of the others. I suspect we will see WP at close to 20 % across Europe this time next year, outselling Apple in most countries.
Is that something that can be celebrated considering it will be almost exclusively done on the back of low cost hardware and first time smartphone buyers? I don't know, but I also think that in the long term it will ensure that the high end market will start to significantly grow for WP too.
I think we'll see a similar situations on the tablet front once MS make both WP and RT free (or almost free) for OEM's.
when u are talking about android tablets u must mean the one and only nexus. all the others are crap and people who buy all these Chinese tablets know it. they are not tied to the android ecosystem but bought them because of the price and would throw them away for a similar priced windows tablet. people aren't stupid they know what they are getting into. give them a cheap 7-8 inch tablet with windows 8.1 and no one will go android.
That's the mindset with which Microsoft went into Windows Phone. It was still early and most people didn't have smart phones yet. However, at that point it was already too late. OEMs only half-heartedly supported Windows Phone and it never stood a chance.
It's not all that early, either. Half a year ago one third of all adults in the US already had a tablet. Now after Christmas it's probably more than that.
I'm curious, too. I'd especially like to know how the new Surfaces sold. But I'm not expecting much. Maybe they increased their 4% share of tablet sales by a couple of points.
I hope they will, but I'd be shocked. I think those demographics will gravitate towards cheaper devices and they will make their purchasing decisions based on recommendations, on what people they know own, and on what they are sold. So far, people don't recommend Windows tablets (i.e. only for people who want x86 applications), people mostly own iOS and Android devices, and OEMs are focusing on Android devices (lots of competition with cheap Android tablets, and better branding and advertising as with e.g. the Galaxy brand vs. Ativ).
Globally, Windows phone is still around 4%. It's nearly irrelevant in the US and in China. I think 20% in Europe is next to impossible and it will never ever get more than 10% globally.
Windows Phone is growing in Europe because of cheap, decent-quality devices and the Nokia brand. Android is in the process of catching up in terms of the quality of cheap devices (with Android 4.4 and the Moto G) and Microsoft is about to lose the Nokia brand. Windows Phone's increase in market share may not be stable, either. I don't think most people bought phones like the Lumia 520 because of the OS itself and next time they'll buy another cheap, decent-quality device running whatever OS it comes with.
I think for the foreseeable future Windows devices (both phones and tablets) will be relegated to 4-10% of the market (with Android capturing 80% of the market) and there's nothing Microsoft can do about it. Maybe they won't be far behind iOS with the difference that Apple will continue to make shitloads of money off iOS devices, whereas Microsoft will be forced to embrace low-margin devices and maybe give away Windows Phone and Windows RT.
Time to get Office on Android and iOS...
Lies.
brotkasten
Member
Everything he says is true and I completely agree with him.
That was funny. Thanks for the laugh.
I don't know which mindset you mean, but comparing phones to tablets is apples and oranges imo.
And it is still early imo - Apple sold 14.6 million iPads in Q3 (down from 17 million the previous year) and that amounted to around 30 % of total tablet sales. That means that less than 50 million tablets were sold world wide in Q3, up from around 42 million in Q3 2012. That's hardly massive growth year on year (around 13 %). Once the actual mainstream starts buying tablets, we will see 30, 40 % growth year on year. Also, let's not forget about business users - businesses aren't yet buying tablets in numbers, that too will change and will be a big factor going forward.
I'm not sure how a 3rd of US adults can have a tablet with sales numbers like that, but if that number is correct it means that the international tablet market is ridiculously small right now.
Yeah, should be interesting to see. Doubling that 4 % share would be a good starting point.
The price will be the driving factor for sure. If MS offer RT for free to OEM's as rumoured, I don't see why the price should be higher than that of Android in the long term.
5 % in the US last quarter, doubled in size. You are ignoring the steady growth WP has seen/expecting it to suddenly stop. I don't know why to be honest, there's no reason why it should. A new OS revision on the horizon alongside with all the major apps that people use and new hardware should ensure that the growth is sustainable for the foreseeable future.
Last quarter WP was 12 % (from memory) across the Euro 5 - I don't know why 20 % shouldn't be achievable when the marketshare has tripled over the last 12 months.
I know you think that, but there's no evidence to back it up
I think that long term we could see a 60/30/10 split of the phone market (the 10 % being Apple, btw). I've little evidence to support that view too, but at least there's some.
For tablets, I think it's far too early to tell. But I would say that the Windows brand should prove far more helpful to sales in the tablet space than it did in the phone space.
I've had more people asking me about the 'Lumia phones' than Nokia ones. Make of that what you will. No doubt the Nokia brand is still strong here but the Lumia one is pretty well known now too.
brotkasten
Member
It looks like my proximity sensor issue sorted itself out. The glance screen is back and I don't get a black screen of death during a call anymore. I'm glad I haven't sent it in, but I guess I'm just delaying the inevitable.
Most users aren't all that aware of all the features a platform offers and don't use many of the more advanced features. I think much like Windows Phone not getting big updates didn't move the needle much, neither will Windows Phone getting a notification center and a Siri clone.
What the new features will accomplish is that the people who participate in this thread don't jump ship.
I don't think many reviews will hail WP8.1 as a real alternative to Android and iOS when it will finally have the notification center they've been clamoring for. It'll be received as a catch-up release and otherwise criticized for the same stuff as WP8. The reception of WP8.1 will probably mirror Mango's.
There may be a few big organizations that will collectively move to Windows Phone, but overall iPhones and Android phones are already widely established in business use. Most of Blackberry's market share is gone already and the majority went to iOS and Android.
I think the only real unknown for 2014 is what Samsung, HTC, and the rest will do about Windows Phone. There were rumors about Microsoft making Windows Phone free and about them incentivizing HTC and Samsung to somehow offer Windows Phone for their Android devices (or something).
The only way Microsoft can make Windows Phone a bit more relevant and possibly slightly more successful in 2014 is by giving HTC and Samsung billions of Dollars.
Edit: maybe Microsoft should turn Windows Phone entirely into a "Nexus" program. With the acquisition of Nokia they already make nearly every phone themselves. Instead of licensing it to OEMs and watch them half-heartedly support it, they might as well collaborate with different OEMs in designing the phones (overseen by the Surface people), and then have the OEMs make them. Microsoft would have much more control over design and marketing, and they could guarantee the OEMs financial success. Shouldn't be impossible. Seems to work well for Google.
It was the soft reset wasn't it!
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
What's your evidence of this? It seems like the biggest benefactor of BlackBerry's demise was windows phone. IOS stagnated in terms of growth, and it seems like every article I read seemed to think that it was windows phone that benefitted most from blackberry's collapse.
This was a banner year for WP growth, due almost entirely to the 520. You don't think Microsoft knows this? You don't think they will have an answer to the Moto G? Nokia released a staggering amount of devices last year, Microsoft has talked up cheap devices all year. They saw this coming, even when people in this thread criticized them for focusing too much on the low end. That was before the 520 became a hit. I don't understand why anyone thinks a Motorola phone will kill the low end business for WP.
brotkasten
Member
No, it wasn't, as I told you in a previous post. I pulled the phone out of the front pocket of my jacket and suddenly the glance screen was back.
brotkasten
Member
There's absolutely no good reason to buy the 1520. It's a total waste of money and doesn't add anything new to the Windows Phone experience. I really want to see the sales numbers for this thing.
That was always the impression I got from the market share numbers (e.g. those Kantar numbers). Blackberry's share declined a lot, Windows Phone profited from that quite a bit, but it didn't gain more from it than either Android or iOS, and now there's not much left of Blackberry.
Nokia did great this year with the 520 and Microsoft knows this (as does everyone else). Motorola won't kill anything. I'm not even convinced the Moto G will do particularly well (it takes more than just the right device at the right price). But now that Google has worked on improving Android for low-end devices it's only a matter of time before every OEM does Moto G quality devices at the lower end. Then the Lumias may no longer stand out in that price range.
I hope Nokia will have an answer to the Moto G soon. So far I'm not seeing it. There've been so many WVGA devices (520, 525, 620, 625, 720), I'm not sure what the 630/635 can bring to the table. If they price it similar to the 620, it's can't compete with the Moto G.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Just because I thought I was going crazy, and because brot indicated he agreed with maeh's statements, I did a search to see if I could find any articles that stated that the biggest beneficiary of the death of Blackberry was Windows Phone. And yeah, that definitely seems to be the consensus, in articles like this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one.
You can take the mantle of negative douche and still be wrong at times.
It has the best screen and processor of any WP phone. It has the best camera of any smartphone outside of the 1020. A bigger screen is obviously better for video, pictures, and web browsing. More live tiles at a glance, and live tiles are one of the key features of the OS. They could've and should've done more to tailor WP to phablet screens, but to say there is no reason to buy it is pure bullshit. Sales numbers will likely suck.
You can take the mantle of negative douche and still be wrong at times.
It has the best screen and processor of any WP phone. It has the best camera of any smartphone outside of the 1020. A bigger screen is obviously better for video, pictures, and web browsing. More live tiles at a glance, and live tiles are one of the key features of the OS. They could've and should've done more to tailor WP to phablet screens, but to say there is no reason to buy it is pure bullshit. Sales numbers will likely suck.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Not only did Microsoft KNOW this, they PREDICTED this and moved the platform in that direction. They weren't just happy bystanders as Nokia brilliantly brought about the 520, this was their intended strategy all along. Your entire premise is wrong.
I question whether or not security is a concern for companies moving from blackberry to Android. That was the main concern for the company I work for. Even though I've pushed that we move to WP, it looks like we're moving to iPhones because more people are familiar with that platform. =/
Considering the great on-contract price the device was previously set to, I wish Verizon had the 1520 and not AT&T. IMO price + hardware + screen size = great reason to pick one up.
Considering the great on-contract price the device was previously set to, I wish Verizon had the 1520 and not AT&T. IMO price + hardware + screen size = great reason to pick one up.
brotkasten
Member
They also did this at the cost of their other partners. HTC had to cancel their Windows Phone variant of the HTC One, because Windows Phone didn't support 1080p screens at the time. On the other hand, the Windows Phone team was happy to bend themselves backwards to implement support for a 41 MP camera on a phone that bombed completely, sales wise, and added nothing to the ecosystem itself. Fantastic strategy they got there.
Would it have been such a huge effort to lend HTC a hand and add 1080p support early for them. Because looking at the 1520, it doesn't look like 1080p support was a big deal for anyone involved.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
This is such a self-defeating post, I shouldn't even have to address it. So MS focused on low end devices (which proved tremendously effective) and this is a bad strategy? So MS supported their key partner for a phone that, while it sold poorly, gave them plenty of press coverage, at the expense of a partner whose 2013 line has floundered-and this is bad strategy? Who in their right mind would've preferred a reheated HTC One over a Lumia 1020? How would the HTC phone add something to the ecosystem while the 1020 didn't according to you? Nokia outperformed HTC one on one last year in flagships, they were the better partner. MS clearly made the right choice, your post is baffling. And then, to top it off, right after arguing that MS should've worked with HTC on 1080p support sooner rather than a pureview phone, you acknowledge that 1080p was not a big deal for anyone. Damn, way to kill off your own argument.
No question Windows Phone got a lot of Symbian and Blackberry users, but so did everyone else. And when it comes to Blackberry users I don't think Windows Phone got disproportionately more Blackberry users than Android and iOS.
E.g. from your first link:
In that case Blackberry lost 2 percent while Windowss Phone got .6 percent. Even if all .6 percent came from Blackberry, the remaining 1.4 percent must have gone to Android and iOS.
It makes sense that some businesses favor Windows Phone over the competition as Microsoft tends to cater to the business needs rather well, but there was never that mass exodus from Blackberry to Windows Phone. Businesses had no problems going to iOS.
I fully agree that Windows Phone has done low-end phones best since the beginning. Nokia and Microsoft put in a lot of effort enabling devices with as little as 256MB on WP7 and Nokia's low-end effort was truly excellent.
But with the ongoing commoditization of smartphones (where we get to a point where even the cheap ones are of decent quality and have sufficient performance) and the increased low-end efforts of the competition that low-end head start loses its impact. They are no longer the only ones who care about this market and will face growing competition.
lastflowers
Banned
You don't beat android by copying their strategy. At least that's my view.
brotkasten
Member
I didn't say they should've focused on 1080p instead of the low-end. But it was months after the Lumia 520 was announced (Feb. 25) and released, when they said they were focusing on bringing the platform to more and cheaper markets, instead of bringing more features to the platform. Technically, that work was done after GDR1, and the 520 went public a month after that. So where can I see the rest of that strategy, the big focus on the low end? What significant Windows Phone came out after March? The Huawei Ascent W1 and W2? The Lumia 525, that comes with 1 GB of RAM, because only 512 MB suck after all?
And you misunderstood my comment about the 1080p screens. I meant that seeing how poorly the 1080p support is implemented it GDR3, they might as well could've shitted it out 6 months earlier and lending HTC a hand with that. Like it or not, an HTC One rehash still has more mass market appeal than the 1020. It also would've brought 1080p support to the whole platform much earlier, letting other OEMs use it. 41 MP support only benefits Nokia and I don't know if an entire update cycle was worth the PR stunt.
Dias Mendes
Member
Now i have my first Windows phone, i want to know for you, what is the best and necessary apps.
brotkasten
Member
I thought the whole point of the NT port was to bring more hardware support to the platform in more timely manner, without the need for OS updates to support more SoCs and other new specs. Nothing has changed in that regard and Windows Phone still lags a year behind. The fact that we have to speculate if 8.1 supports 2560x1440 says it all.
And yes. You don't beat Android by copying their strategy, but they had enough time to copy yours. The Headstart was just that big.
Sony maybe making WP phone in 2014?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57616405-94/sony-sets-sights-on-windows-phone-says-report
Hope you like the phone! What type of phone did you get? That may determine which apps/games you can use.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57616405-94/sony-sets-sights-on-windows-phone-says-report
Hope you like the phone! What type of phone did you get? That may determine which apps/games you can use.
Dias Mendes
Member
Lumia 520, casual games, and internet apps, social.
I played dots in my old android device, but i cant install on my 520 =(
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I think Android is just too far ahead right now for MS. Now that they established themselves as #3, the next obvious target is Apple anyway. Its a much more realistic objective, and I really believe this new, slow moving, stagnant Apple is vulnerable.
killer rin
Member
We should really add a section on this to the OP
MyTube is the best youtube client
WPCentral best place for news of new apps/games/news
Wordament addicting word game
Microsoft Solitare Suit
Microsoft Minesweeper
Microsoft Majong
Halo: Spartan Assault
Dias Mendes
Member
My first thing was look on first page sometihng like bets apps.
Or create a gaf user on App Social.
Gaf dont support Tapatalk?
That would be kind of a big deal, since it would almost certainly also force Samsung and HTC to release new WP devices.
Nope.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
It seems like every year since the launch of windows phones there are rumors of a Sony phone. I'll believe it when its announced.
campfireweekend
Member
How do their vaio's do? Maybe if windows 8 has made those do well they're looking to create some synergy.
Also, if this comes true, then Sony will release a PS4 app for windows phone!
Steelyuhas
Member
That would be pretty funny if they make a Windows Phone and still don't provide the app to the platform for ps4.
Well for social apps, I'd get 6tag for Instagram, 6snap for snapchat, while I actually think the actual Vine app is a bit better than 6sec. You should also download the Facebook beta app instead of the default official app. The beta app should receive updates and features first before they are pushed to the regular app.
Not sure what internet apps would be. Do you mean official apps for websites? Sorry if that's a stupid question.
There are plenty of casual time waster games. Though I'm not sure what's comparable to dots and compatible with the 520.
Eh, I don't think anything will push any company to change their plans for WP if there isn't enough demand to garner competition. HTC and Samsung may not care if Sony picks up Nokia's scraps.
lastflowers
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6Sec
6Snap
6tag
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Bing News/Finance/Sports
Weatherflow
Fidelity Investments
Flowerz (An incredibly addicting game that I can't speak higher about...+ achievements)
Microsoft Mahjong/minesweeper/solitaire
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