Wkd Box Office 0401-0316 - BvS has 'worse legs than Barbara Gordon' -- Sibersk Esto
- Thread starter xaosslug
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MOS wasnt good either...
Such a low floor
If Cap can't muster $1.3 million, then every single person ever associated with that film should be fired.
Liquidsnake is MoS' #1 fan, bless his heart
I saw it pre release (a couple weeks early) for free and still thought it was pretty big waste of my time.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Yeah, that's why I'm a bit skeptical.
Is he the one who said he cried multiple times during MoS?
broncobuster
Banned
Whoops didn't catch that. Meant for a b instead of m. Iron Man 3 numbers, basically.
I mean Winter Soldier made a significant amount of money internationally ($450m). I guess it depends on if it makes Captain America sequel money or Avengers money.
To be fair, I do think MoS was generally well focused. I did not like it, but at least the plot made sense and flowed quite well.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Some would even argue that and say it should've gone straight-to-trash.
It didn't hurt TWS.
I read a box office comparison breakdown/estimate article for Civil War and I agree with it completely. Worst case scenario, it will probably be knocking at a billion's door even if it doesn't cross it (I'd guess $950 WW worst case), but $1Bn seems likely if everything goes this movies way. Personally, I'm thinking $1.2-1.3 Bn (playing more like Iron Man 3 with a slight bump) but honestly I can see it going $1.4Bn+ (Age of Ultron) since it's got a lot going for it, with some good potential for universal critical praise, which AoU didn't have, to help it's legs.
Civil War probably has less marketing than AoU as well, I would guess. Anybody heard anything about that? Even if not, the trailer views for Civil War seem bigger than AoU IIRC, and the general buzz for Civil War in online discussions seemed to be overshadowing AoU before AoU even released, from what I've seen.
Yeah, it couldn't have hurt if they called it "Iron Man" or "Avengers", but eh. It's still gonna smash a billion.
And still germany gets The First Avenger movies instead of Captain America.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Well, I'm not at least interested in either Cap America or Superman. They're the essence of icky and propagandistic heroism. There are few others as well, but these two are my major turnoffs. I'll watch the new Cap because there's Iron Man, Scarlet Witch and Spider-Man (also because of my job) but I wouldn't pay a dime for a Cap or Superman movie.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I don't know, Winter Soldier raised the bar, when it came to Marvel movies. So the Captain America name could help the movie too, for people who remember how good the last movie was.
The Russo's seem to know their stuff and are back in the directing chair again, so if the quality is anything like Winter Soldier or even better, reviews and fan reaction could really give this movie long legs.
Oh and Spider-Man is in this too.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Man, that's what makes Captain America SO GOOD!
Yeah, and I hate American patriotism which is present in most blockbusters. Cap and Superman represents that. :/
You have no idea what Captain America is about if that's what you think about the character.
CW will depend on International. Its not as big internationally afaik and I understand why. I can see it possibly hitting a billion, but honestly I just want it to crest 900m. If it does that then DAMN have they ever made Cap America into a big fucking comic book film man. That shit is crazy considering what the first cap movie brought in worldwide.
Edit: I'm not as sold on people seeing Cap as an Avengers movie just because it has some of the same heroes. The title matters, a whole LOT to the casual viewer. This won't do avengers numbers period, because no matter the cast, it's not an "Avengers" movie.
Edit: I'm not as sold on people seeing Cap as an Avengers movie just because it has some of the same heroes. The title matters, a whole LOT to the casual viewer. This won't do avengers numbers period, because no matter the cast, it's not an "Avengers" movie.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Oh yeah?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_propaganda_comics
"Timely Comics, later to become Marvel Comics, created Captain America and he entered World War II in early 1941: "Captain America dramatically leaped into action on the cover, delivering a knockout punch to Adolf Hitler's jaw.""
And it goes on and on and on. Cap America is the USA in Cold War. Propaganda tool. Patriotic figure for children to look upon.
Superman on the other hand represents christian morality and all that is, oh, so good. I don't like him as I do not like any religious agenda in entertainment.
So, I do not like these white savior type heroes at all. I find them only as a way to brainwash children. Propaganda. Western world is so black and white, it's annoying.
Escape Goat
Member
The marketing has basically made Civil War the main title of the film. I bet that's how most people will refer to the movie.
That was 75 years ago. Cap hasn't been an American propaganda machine for longer than you've been alive.
Dash_Riprock
Member
You lost me a Superman representing "Christian Morality"
The "Supes is Jesus" thing only occurs because directors like Singer and especially Snyder aren't talented enough to go deeper so they just go with the easy, boring symbolism.
Fun Fact: The original creators of the Superman comic were Jewish.
Er... um... hmm.
Let's see how Captain America himself felt about being used as a patriotic tool for the government.
The movies are pretty smart about handling it, especially in showing that Steve Rogers himself is not beholden to the government. He simply does what he feels is right - the "spirit" of what America SHOULD be - which often involves him defying his superiors, standing against unjust laws and regulations, and even outright denouncing the government and its actions.
He never wanted to be a tool of propaganda. He resented it. He wanted to put his life on the line, be a soldier to protect people, and he stands in stark contrast AGAINST most of the American soldiers and generals and officials in his films.
So... my small way of saying... you're missing out on a very clever send-up of propaganda cliches and stereotypes. I was absolutely with you in that thinking until I saw the films, and against all odds, the guy in the spangly outfit has become my favorite Avenger through sheer merit.
Lol. Wow.
Superman's creators were Jewish. VERY Jewish.
If anything, Superman represents Moses far more than he ever did Jesus.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Or you don't know anything about archetypes. I dunno.
I have some 1000+ superhero comics. Mainly from the 80s era. X-Men, Spider-Man, Batman and such. I haven't read them in a while though.
That's how he was portrayed in 1941.
NINE TEEN FORTY ONE
It's now 2016. Cap isn't exactly just a flag waving "god bless the USA" type guy. He somewhat frequently will go against the government if he feels what they're doing is wrong. Cap is a guy about doing what's right, not what the red white and blue says. This was basically what his last movie was about and what his next movie is about.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I know how the movies treat the character. They make fun of the patriotism. I've thought it's more of a message from the movie makers. Is Cap like this in the new comics as well, because that Cap what I've read was a propaganda tool and I hated him?
Escape Goat
Member
No, its very clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Comics have evolved in so many ways. Each writer has a story to tell that reflects whats going on in our society. You need to update your comic collection.
In the comic version of Civil War, cap gets arrested by the US government (and later assassinated) .
You mean like Civil War, the comic, where he actively fights against the government and the laws of superhero registration, becoming a wanted outlaw and threat to the nation in the process?
That wasn't that long ago...
I'm also not a big fan of patriotism but Cap's movies are some of the best in the genre, I was actually surprised how much I liked The First Avenger, I think you'd find there's a lot more to the character than the initial patriotic angle.
I'm not American but the Captain America from the movies is an inspirational and hopeful figure with values any decent person can empathize and relate to.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
No, its very clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Comics have evolved in so many ways. Each writer has a story to tell that reflects whats going on in our society. You need to update your comic collection.
Yep. I just asked if Cap has changed that much.
Sorry for the stir. I'm olden. I just know how I read Cap, Superman and the other white capes when I was young. I just hated them. That's why I have many issues with them in these new movies. Antipathy is a word I'd use.
How about the comics in the seventies when Cap became so disillusioned with the U.S. government he abandoned the Captain America name and costume and became the Nomad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomad_(comics)
It didn't last long, but the reason he went back to being Captain America because he realizes he can champion the ideals of what America should be and not blindly support the government.
How old, may I ask, ARE you?
Because Captain America hasn't been a US propaganda tool for decades.
I even have the run in the comics from the 70s when he renounced his title and citizenship and became "Nomad" due to the loss of faith he had in the US government.
That was the Nixon era, so Captain America's been pretty active in distancing himself from the US government proper longer than most comic fans have been alive.
Edit: Beaten like an Issue 1 Hitler.
flaxknuckles
Member
$$$$$$$$$$$$
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
It's not the forties anymore. I don't know where you're from but I'm French and american patriotism in movies is particularly ridiculed around here. I remember watching Independence Day and Armageddon in the theater and the entire audience was laughing during the flag-waving moments. That never happened during First Avenger and Winter Soldier and these films are well regarded here despite initial scepticism. Captain America and Superman haven't been what you claim they are in decades, in both comics (I'm sure there are some exceptions here and there) and movies. The way they have handled the patiotic nature of Cap in the MCU is particularly smart. I'm no fan of the MCU but I commend them for that.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Man, you really didn't watch either of the new Cap or Superman movies to think that's how they come off, cause woo boy you would completely think otherwise especially with The Winter Soldier.
I know that's the real reason, but the canonical reason is what I said.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I haven't read these Caps. Sounds like Cap had a huge hippie influence.
We didn't have many Cap comics here. We got some of the classics and some newer ones when Cap was doing a cameo in more familiar comics. I've built my vision of Cap from these (mainly Red Skull stuff).
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I always think like that when the American flags are being waved in any movie. It's an issue I have.
Read more.I haven't read these Caps. Sounds like Cap had a huge hippie influence.
We didn't have many Cap comics here. We got some of the classics and some newer ones when Cap was doing a cameo in more familiar comics. I've built my vision of Cap from these (mainly Red Skull stuff).
You'd be impressed.
Wait a minute, what are yall even discussing. These movies or the comics? Because those are two TOTALLY different things. Especially comics from over 60 years ago man..
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Not from the WWII era.
Yeah. I guess my issue is that Cap has never been of any interest here in Finland. So the only Cap we read were these classic propaganda pieces with nazis and all that. And I stopped reading superhero comics in the mid 90s or so. Even then those comics were like 5-10 years old which got translated.
I guess I stopped ordering comics when Todd McFarlane moved to Spawn and Witchblade. I read those for a while and then just moved on.
broncobuster
Banned
Man, that panel is one of Cap's lesser moments.
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