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World of Warcraft: Cataclysm |OT| of Who the hell is Deathwing, anyway?
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Weirder hitting the Argent Crusade/Cenarion Circle camp as Undead and helping them to restore WPL...AceBandage said:
Hit 40 tonight, plate + epic mount FTW! Also did a few more dungeons (RFK, first and second parts of Mara) as tank - I'm really quite enjoying it so far. It's so refreshing being able to chose EXACTLY when you want to run an instance, rather than having the LFD tool up and it popping up just when you don't want it to!
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah.. I've been playing the game since launch. Er.. I guess even before launch in the stress test beta. But due to time constraints and an inability to sit still I've only been able to subscribe to WoW maybe 2 months out of every year. So I've working on this character for like 5 years. :lol And am only just now getting to level 50. Anyway, I've noticed since I resubbed this month that its just not as... spellbinding. I don't have the same sence of accomplishment. I'm getting 6000 XP for the most mundane of quests, each level flys by in like two hours. I genuinely appreciate the fact that I'm going to get to see the endgame stuff sooner.. but the journey has DEFINITELY been ruined. It's still fun, don't get me wrong.. but it's not as amazing.SatelliteOfLove said:
No45 said:
Piece of advice if you enjoy LFD. Stay a tank if you want to choose EXACTLY when you run an instance. Get a heals as your off spec if you're a pally or druid.
Right now at level 85 if you're DPS, its about a 30 minute queue for regular dungeons and 45 minutes to an hour wait on heroics. Tanks and heals have no waiting.
High level.Bisnic said:
And it IS a high pop server. Stormreaver.
Regardless of if I see a lot of people, phasing blows for a lot of other reasons, too. I'd list them, but that's the kind of thing that tends to get people to hate me really fast. ):
I just had to rage a little bit because I HATE IT SO MUCH. I'm better now.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Well, I dived in yet again. This time with my first WoW Expansion Collector's Edition...
WoW is the one annoying game that, no matter how much you try to get away from it, it keeps calling until you jump in yet again. Ug. Hopefully Cat. will be big enough a change to the WoW I grew accustomed to that I won't be disappointed.
WoW is the one annoying game that, no matter how much you try to get away from it, it keeps calling until you jump in yet again. Ug. Hopefully Cat. will be big enough a change to the WoW I grew accustomed to that I won't be disappointed.
Man, Cataclysm appears to have straight-up ruined a quest chain in Dragonsblight. I just completed Return To Angrathar, there's a big epic cutscene wherein
, and then... nothing. I get a whisper from a character asking me to go to them, but I do and no quest prompt.
Trip to Google later, it turns out this whole thing's supposed to lead into another subset of quests that can't happen anymore because Varian's gone, so instead Blizz just cut out the last few quests. Given how much care went into updating a lot of the old world stuff, it's disappointing that this bit is so sloppy. At the very least, don't have somebody constantly whisper at me when they have nothing to say!
the Forsaken show up and fuck everybody over
Trip to Google later, it turns out this whole thing's supposed to lead into another subset of quests that can't happen anymore because Varian's gone, so instead Blizz just cut out the last few quests. Given how much care went into updating a lot of the old world stuff, it's disappointing that this bit is so sloppy. At the very least, don't have somebody constantly whisper at me when they have nothing to say!
fizzelopeguss
Banned
wtf, you're kidding me? I'm going through wrath for the first time and i was looking forward to that.
I would hope that they just had to take some time to rework the quest with the new Old World or something and that it will be back.
The Undercity section of that quest is too great for anyone to miss. And it already uses heavy phasing so it shouldn't have any problems bringing the Northrend time period into the "future" in the Old World.
The Undercity section of that quest is too great for anyone to miss. And it already uses heavy phasing so it shouldn't have any problems bringing the Northrend time period into the "future" in the Old World.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I'm fine with phasing, as long as it doesn't paralyze the zone its in. Choice is good, bottlenecks bad.
Required reading.
d0c_zaius said:
Required reading.
BUT BUT NO ONE WANTS TO DO IT AGAIN ONCE THEY'VE DONE IT ONCEMaxrpg said:
^ actual argument someone once made for removing the quest
It's a shame, because it's one of the few GOOD uses of phasing in the game. Takes you to your own little specific Undercity instead of making an entire zone a billion different phases.
Just ventured to an area too tough for my char right now, died, and now I can't load the game world up at all. Yay. It just locks up at the loading screen at 90% and none of the recommended "fixes" work. Now I have to wait for whenever a GM decides to teleport me out of there, and they apparently have a "high number of petitions" going right now.
After leveling both a tank and a healer, I absolutely cannot stand queuing for DPS in the RDF. I thought they merged all those battlegroups together so it wouldnt take so long. Guess not.bill0527 said:
Also, a guildie kept complaining about tanks not accepting their queues, so I started the RDF, joined the queue then kept declining my invitations.
I made many enemies that day.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
:lol Sounds like something for me to do while im farming herbs.Sober said:
the problem has nothing to do with battlegroups. at all..Sober said:
the problems are two fold. First, DPS queues have always been insane. Even at the height of popularity of the DF and wotlk heroics, DPS on busy servers had to often wait at least 20+ minutes for a queue, whereas tanks and healers would often see stuff like "average wait time 8 sec..... JOIN DUNGEON". It's no different now.. arguably even worse now that they added even more viable DPS to the game through the redesigned talent trees.
Second problem is Cata heroics. They are hard. Not impossibly hard. I've cleared out almost all of them so far and IMHO they are really extremely fun. But they are harder than wrath, require people to work together, require groups to either know the heroic or someone who does know it, explain it to the PUG, and hopefully the pug follows... anyway, long story short it's scared people off. there are very few people queuing for heroics, and most that are are usually "LFG: LF Tank/Healer for heroics"
the heroic situation will right itself though. As people continue to gear up, get rep, etc the heroics will become easier. For instance my character is at 342 ilevel on the armory, and I am pretty safe in heroics as long as I don't pull aggro and stay away from the intentionally one shot stuff. once Im finally in 346 and higher I am guessing that heroics will begin to approach where they were in wrath. 7 more pieces and I'll be set.
The real problem is that the order of difficulty and responsibility goes something like this:
healer > tank > everything else
It also doesn't help that the only good players can satisfactorily fill the first two spots.
My paladin is a tank and a healer, but that's mainly because I'm a guild leader and actually care about the people I play with.
healer > tank > everything else
It also doesn't help that the only good players can satisfactorily fill the first two spots.
My paladin is a tank and a healer, but that's mainly because I'm a guild leader and actually care about the people I play with.
Mzo said:
my order goes:
tank > healer > everything else
(i'm also a pally holy/prot spec)
The reason behind this is, i have a damned harder time finishing a heroic dungeon as a tank then a healer. Its just far easier, in my opinion, to finish as a healer, mainly cuz pally healing rocks right now (not in aoe situations) and even i can keep up a mediocre tank for a long period of time. However, if i go in as a tank, a mediocre healer will wipe us far more often.
I do not even dare to queue for heroics, even as a mage.
1) The 45 mins queues
2) The huge risk of the group falling apart before we get to the end.
3) Heard stories of pug heroics taking 2-3 hours. Personally, i would rather lvl an alt or do dailies/archaeology than this.
4) Dealing with nerd rages from complete strangers is not something i wanna deal with.
The sad part is im not gaining any Justice or Valor points by skipping them right now. My guild is pretty casual, so not everyone is 85 and with 333 blues now and most 85 are still doing regs, so i gotta wait until during or after the holidays for doing heroic guild runs.
I guess it gives me more chances to lvl archaeology and my alts professions until then.
1) The 45 mins queues
2) The huge risk of the group falling apart before we get to the end.
3) Heard stories of pug heroics taking 2-3 hours. Personally, i would rather lvl an alt or do dailies/archaeology than this.
4) Dealing with nerd rages from complete strangers is not something i wanna deal with.
The sad part is im not gaining any Justice or Valor points by skipping them right now. My guild is pretty casual, so not everyone is 85 and with 333 blues now and most 85 are still doing regs, so i gotta wait until during or after the holidays for doing heroic guild runs.
I guess it gives me more chances to lvl archaeology and my alts professions until then.
my order is based on difficulty of play, not based on importance of class (this is obviously all in pov of a paladin)
I have to play perfectly as a tank to give a chance for a mediocre healer to keep me up (LOH, DP, DS stack drops, taunts, and all the 20% damage reduction modifiers), but as a healer, all i do is holy shock, heal, holy shock procs, eternal glory/aoe heal, 20% raid damage reduction, LOH, and repeat.)
I consider healer the most important class to raid dungeon success, but tank the hardest to play basically.
I have to play perfectly as a tank to give a chance for a mediocre healer to keep me up (LOH, DP, DS stack drops, taunts, and all the 20% damage reduction modifiers), but as a healer, all i do is holy shock, heal, holy shock procs, eternal glory/aoe heal, 20% raid damage reduction, LOH, and repeat.)
I consider healer the most important class to raid dungeon success, but tank the hardest to play basically.
in a bad group yes, healers have the hardest job. and unfortunately thanks to wrath there are lots of "bad groups" out there at least as far as cata is concerned. As a DPS though, my job is not easy IF my goal is to assist in making the healers/tanks job easier.
CC. I'm typically having to go through at least two sheep in a single trash pull. In cases like Beauty in BRC I am having to sheep probably 6-7 times. Beauty is a great example because typically Beauty has to be tanked around to get out of lava pools so I have to be able to run back to my sheep and reapply as needed.
ice block. I can't rely on the healer to heal me, especially in one shot scenarios. Even if the healer is good, as a cauterize mage I am typically fucked (see below). It is in my best interest, and the groups best interest, to apply IB liberally.
cauterize. as a fire mage I have cauterize. great talent, basically gives me free hit points. Problem is that if I am one- or two-shotted, I go from full to dead instantly (like normal), but what the healer sees is me going from near dead to 40% health instantly and thinks I've popped a pot or something. Usually this results in them thinking they have more time on me and give another quick heal to the tank or someone lower health. However cauterize means if I don't heal at least 8% of my health in 6 seconds, I'm dead. So again, this is pretty much up to me.
obviously there are things involving just groups going faster, maximizing your spec and doing the most damage to burn things down as quickly as possible. but just those three things there are areas where it's my job to make a healers job easier.. things I really didn't have to worry too much about in wrath.
not saying healers don't have a tough job. and in a bad group they unquestionably have the toughest. But in a decent group, there are plenty of things the DPS can be doing to mitigate and reduce damage usually lightening up the healers responsibility. as everyone has been saying for a bit, it's just going to be a learning curve, that's all. and while not everyone will be a great player, as the great players are getting higher level hear and running heroics for JPs, more and more (and I hate to say this, but it's true), bad or casual players will be able to be carried through heroics. It sucks, but at the end of the day it's all about the chance for loot drops combined with the 70JPs on each boss.
CC. I'm typically having to go through at least two sheep in a single trash pull. In cases like Beauty in BRC I am having to sheep probably 6-7 times. Beauty is a great example because typically Beauty has to be tanked around to get out of lava pools so I have to be able to run back to my sheep and reapply as needed.
ice block. I can't rely on the healer to heal me, especially in one shot scenarios. Even if the healer is good, as a cauterize mage I am typically fucked (see below). It is in my best interest, and the groups best interest, to apply IB liberally.
cauterize. as a fire mage I have cauterize. great talent, basically gives me free hit points. Problem is that if I am one- or two-shotted, I go from full to dead instantly (like normal), but what the healer sees is me going from near dead to 40% health instantly and thinks I've popped a pot or something. Usually this results in them thinking they have more time on me and give another quick heal to the tank or someone lower health. However cauterize means if I don't heal at least 8% of my health in 6 seconds, I'm dead. So again, this is pretty much up to me.
obviously there are things involving just groups going faster, maximizing your spec and doing the most damage to burn things down as quickly as possible. but just those three things there are areas where it's my job to make a healers job easier.. things I really didn't have to worry too much about in wrath.
not saying healers don't have a tough job. and in a bad group they unquestionably have the toughest. But in a decent group, there are plenty of things the DPS can be doing to mitigate and reduce damage usually lightening up the healers responsibility. as everyone has been saying for a bit, it's just going to be a learning curve, that's all. and while not everyone will be a great player, as the great players are getting higher level hear and running heroics for JPs, more and more (and I hate to say this, but it's true), bad or casual players will be able to be carried through heroics. It sucks, but at the end of the day it's all about the chance for loot drops combined with the 70JPs on each boss.
drhankmccoyphd
Member
I'm pretty sure I'm going to put aside WoW once I see all the new dungeons. The heroics horror stories are not helping. Might keep the account to level my Worgen but I absolutely feel like I got my ~$55 worth from 80-85.
Lostconfused
Member
That depends on the tank and gear levels.ultron87 said:
this is regardless, as there is no other way to get JPs. And if you are not getting JPs, frankly you are going to haev a tough time gearing (or getting prepared) for raiding.Bisnic said:
this has always been true regardless of difficulty.
these heroics are without question harder than wrath. I would gues as gear gets insanely high you'll see 30 minute heroics, but even in guild runs where we are one shotting bosses these are still taking usually an hour or more. a lot of gauntlets and 5+ minute boss fights.
This is kind of the problem. Everyone is holding off on them, and thus everyone is bottlenecking themselves on gear. It's a chicken and egg. No one wants to do them because of their difficulty, but by not doing them they're not getting any easier.
The Lamonster
Member
Asked in the other thread:
Is there still a weekly raid but for level 85 now? And does it come from the same quest giver in Dalaran?
Is there still a weekly raid but for level 85 now? And does it come from the same quest giver in Dalaran?
ultron87 said:
I would say yes. The healer right now has to be the single most important unit of the group.
Mediocre tank or dps can still get thru if the healer is up to par. CCCCCCCCombo brakers couplet with a tank that can't keep up aggro on all but his target put healers in burnout mode.
I tank myself and every pug run that is successful, I alway always congratulate the healer. They be needing the love this expension.
ultron87 said:
I like to think so because I am biased to healers but the reality is a really good tank that actually leads the group and assign CC targets is just as invaluable as a good healer. If the mobs are properly CC'ed you can get away with a mediocre tank gear and a mediocre healer.
the reality unfortunatey is a lot of tanks still pull the mobs like they did in WOTLK and you really need a good healer to avoid the wipes
Everyone has outrageous health pools, everyone takes outrageous damage and having heals (specially AOE) that can't keep up and take a massive amount of mana means that healing is currently the hardest role in heroics. Wipes are happening right now because the healer is running OOM not because the tanks are having a hard time with CD rotations.
Wizman23 said:
Vanilla:
All 1-60 zones in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor except for starter zones for expansion races.
Note: All 1-60 zones are updated for Cataclysm, this does not require the expansion.
Troll, Orc, Undead, Tauren, Human, Nelf, Dwarf, Gnome
All classes but Death Knight
All professions except Jewelcrafting and Archeology (Inscription launched before Wrath with the 3.0.0 patch)
Burning Crusade:
Raised level cap to 70
60-70 zones in Outland
Blood Elf and Draenai characters.
1-20 zones for Blood Elf and Drenai (azuremist isle, bloodmyst isle, exodar, silvermoon, Eversong Woods, Ghostlands)
Jewelcrafting profession
Requires Vanilla
Wrath of the Lich King:
Raised level cap to 80
70-80 zones in Northrend
Ability to play as a Death Knight (must have a level 55 character, death knights start at level 55, one DK per server)
Requires Burning Crusade
Cataclysm:
Raised level cap to 85
80-85 zones in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor (uldum, hyjal, Vashj'ir, twilight highlands)
80-85 zones in Malestrom (Deepholm)
Goblin and Worgen races
Goblin and Worgen starter zones (Kezan, Lost Isles, Gilneas)
Archeology secondary Profession
Requires Wrath of the Lich King.
So, playing a Worgen at level 1 requires all expansions. Playing a Death Knight requires up to Wrath. Playing a Belf at level 1 requires Burning Crusade only. Playing any character to level 85 requires all expansions. Playing, eg, a Tauren Warrior to level 60 requires no expansions.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
is there a fel iron shortage or something?
Dunlop said:
Even with the best of CC (and some pulls aren't even CC related), i run out of mana pretty goddamn quickly. See Evolved Twilight Dragonkin in BRC for more details. It goes something like this, holy shock, holy light, holy light, holy shock o shit flash flash flash flash flash oom.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
i just sold 2 stacks of fel iron bars for 360 gold each...
forgrim said:
haven't braved healing on my paladin (or leveled him...), Priest healing is a lot more managable now that I am better geared and they fixed our mana regen issues.
The first week was pretty much unplayable, it was at the point where I would not dispel or remove disease and let ppl die in order to keep the tank up
After the market died down for truegold, I make at least 750 gold a day just transmuting volatile air
Dunlop said:
Forgrim already said it but it is worth repeating. Even with the maximum amount of CC applied perfectly healing is not scaling correctly and fights are coming down to how well the healer can manage the madness.
As a priest, my mana costs are so freaking jacked right now I had to remove flash heal from my spell bar.
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