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World of Warcraft: Cataclysm |OT| of Who the hell is Deathwing, anyway?
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joelseph said:
Holy
Stacked spirit like crazy because of the aforementioned first week of hell, probably will play around with reforging.
typical rotation:
(on tank)
PoM (on cooldown) -->Renew-->Chakra heal (macro these 2 spells together so you do not lose a single chakra CD) -->Heal-->Heal--> CoH (depending on party damage
sh!t hits the fan
Guardian spirit (or shield if CD not up) ->Gheal (will refresh the renew on the tank) then back to the regular rotation
More important is to use your shadowfiend on CD, I have it macrod to attack the target of my target so I do not lose time to heal. hymn of hope as well if possible
My disc knowlege is terrible since the 4.0 patch
The_Squirrel_Menace
Member
I stoped to play vanilla WoW around the time the patch with the first battleground's was released. So that's a while ago.
My fun in this game ended when I discovered that if you wanted to experience the high end content you had to do raids with 25+ people at the time (Onyxia and Molten Core) Not my fun. The other instances though, like Stratholme and the like was pure fun.
I understand (I really do, honest) people get chills out of this but I already have a job and this... Raiding with 25 players for hours felt like a 2nd job to me.
Did the game evolved to a more casual audience? IE, are there 5 man dungeons at max lvls where you can get nice items, or the only option are to get into raiding factories?
My fun in this game ended when I discovered that if you wanted to experience the high end content you had to do raids with 25+ people at the time (Onyxia and Molten Core) Not my fun. The other instances though, like Stratholme and the like was pure fun.
I understand (I really do, honest) people get chills out of this but I already have a job and this... Raiding with 25 players for hours felt like a 2nd job to me.
Did the game evolved to a more casual audience? IE, are there 5 man dungeons at max lvls where you can get nice items, or the only option are to get into raiding factories?
joelseph said:
Disc is basically close to unusable for heroic/raid healing right now. The spec is sort of in a weird place, and seems to be mostly pvp-oriented currently.
The_Squirrel_Menace said:
Yes, the dungeons all have heroic dungeons which drop entry level raiding items, along with points which allow you to buy the equipment of the previous raiding tier. They're challenging and wonderful.
The game is way way way easier to play casually than when it first came out, and about a million times better in every way.
The Lamonster
Member
It's basically the responsibility of the Dungeon Guide, which is usually the tank.Flib said:
Almost got everything. You missed Battlegrounds.webrunner said:
Vanilla. No BGs actually launched with the game, but the following three were patched in prior to Burning Crusade and are available to play on a Vanilla account.
Warsong Gulch- 10x10 man capture the flag on a small nearly-symmetrical map. The oldest BG.
Arathi Basin- 15x15 man flag control map. There are 5 flags scattered across the map, non-symmetrically. Controlling a flag grants your side a resource, and obtaining 1600 resources wins the game.
Alterac Valley- 40x40 man campaign map. Each side has a keep at either end of a very long, narrow map. The map contains numerous other points of interest: secondary keeps, towers, graveyards, mines, and quest NPCs. To win the game, you must kill the opposing side's general inside their keep. Most of the other goals on the map either strengthen forces or weaken each general.
Burning Crusade.
Eye of the Storm- 15x15 "tower" control map plus Capture the Flag. There are four "towers" on the map at the four corners. Each "tower" is controlled by standing in/on them (something like Battlefield). Extra points are scored by successfully carrying a flag from the precise center to a tower your team controls.
Wrath of the Lich King.
Strand of the Ancients- A 15x15 game of alternately defending or besieging a walled keep with siege engines. The match is played in two timed rounds a maximum of 10minutes long each. One team will attack the keep and attempt to reach the goal in the shortest time possible. The other team will defend. Once the goal is reached or time is up the roles reverse, and the new attacking team tries to beat the previous attack time.
Isle of Conquest- A 40x40 campaign map with walled keeps and siege engines. Each team has a well-defended gated castle. The map provides numerous tools to attack the gates: various siege engines, aircraft-mounted guns, and bombs. These resources must be commandeered by controlling flag points, then used to sustain an assault against the gates. Once the gates of a keep are down the path to the opponent's general is opened. To win, you must kill the general.
Cataclysm.
Twin Peaks: 10x10 Capture the Flag, very similar to Warsong Gulch.
Battle for Gilneas: 10x10 flag control map, very similar to Arathi Basin. Note there are fewer players allowed and fewer points to control than Arathi Basin (3 in Gilneas). It's a very offensive-oriented map.
hamchan said:Oh I've been tanking and haven't been doing that. :lol
Only been doing normal mode dungeons though, I suppose those are pretty much easy mode for this game. Need to learn how to play tank properly before doing heroics
All the heroics aside from Shadowfang Keep require CC, so it's a good thing to get used to. I'm a tank as well, and even when I'm running people through normals to gear them up, I mark the CCs and targets. It's just a skill that's good to practice.
regarding OOM.. healers should not be going OOM with the mitigation I talked about on the last page. if you're putting the responsibility on the healers, they will certainly go OOM, tank dies, mobs run lose, everyone wipes.
We need to stop this mentality now. With one CC healers and smart playing (get out of damage, get your interrupts off, carry bandages, etc) at least 330+ should not be going oom. you might not be able to do chain pulls but mana should NOT be an issue. With multiple CCs mana shouldn't even be discussed as an issue and you can probably even grab an extra pull before needing to drink.
on bosses, 335+ healers should only be going OOM if people are being stupid. yeah I said 335+. 329-334 seems to be a tough range for healers with really great execution needed by everyone. but 335+ mana should not be an issue as long as people get out of the black/purple/fire spots and you are going after the mobs in the order/priority needed.
I strongly disagree that the healers have the hardest job in heroics. They have an incredibly critical job, but I don't know how much more harder it is than me playing frogger with splashes on the floor while trying to keep adds sheeped and dealing out damage to the current skull icon. However I do agree with sweet talking them after only because when things fail in Cata heroics, it's usually the healers who are chewed out. Still, CC and coordination play a lot bigger part in a successful heroic than a 340+ geared healer who knows how to play his class perfectly, not that that isn't really nice to have.
edit - as for calling out cc targets... just agree on it before starting. I am comfortable at this point tagging all of my CCs, but if the tank/guide wants to do it more power to them. Either way I have to remind them to pull the pack away from my CC, lest my Living Bomb finale breaks my sheep.... god I hate that groups are still having to get used to playing with a fire mage.... damn you blizzard for making fire low man on the totem pole for the entire last expansion!!!!!!!
We need to stop this mentality now. With one CC healers and smart playing (get out of damage, get your interrupts off, carry bandages, etc) at least 330+ should not be going oom. you might not be able to do chain pulls but mana should NOT be an issue. With multiple CCs mana shouldn't even be discussed as an issue and you can probably even grab an extra pull before needing to drink.
on bosses, 335+ healers should only be going OOM if people are being stupid. yeah I said 335+. 329-334 seems to be a tough range for healers with really great execution needed by everyone. but 335+ mana should not be an issue as long as people get out of the black/purple/fire spots and you are going after the mobs in the order/priority needed.
I strongly disagree that the healers have the hardest job in heroics. They have an incredibly critical job, but I don't know how much more harder it is than me playing frogger with splashes on the floor while trying to keep adds sheeped and dealing out damage to the current skull icon. However I do agree with sweet talking them after only because when things fail in Cata heroics, it's usually the healers who are chewed out. Still, CC and coordination play a lot bigger part in a successful heroic than a 340+ geared healer who knows how to play his class perfectly, not that that isn't really nice to have.
edit - as for calling out cc targets... just agree on it before starting. I am comfortable at this point tagging all of my CCs, but if the tank/guide wants to do it more power to them. Either way I have to remind them to pull the pack away from my CC, lest my Living Bomb finale breaks my sheep.... god I hate that groups are still having to get used to playing with a fire mage....
damn you blizzard for making fire low man on the totem pole for the entire last expansion!!!!!!!borghe said:regarding OOM.. healers should not be going OOM with the mitigation I talked about on the last page. if you're putting the responsibility on the healers, they will certainly go OOM, tank dies, mobs run lose, everyone wipes.
We need to stop this mentality now. With one CC healers and smart playing (get out of damage, get your interrupts off, carry bandages, etc) at least 330+ should not be going oom. you might not be able to do chain pulls but mana should NOT be an issue. With multiple CCs mana shouldn't even be discussed as an issue and you can probably even grab an extra pull before needing to drink.
on bosses, 335+ healers should only be going OOM if people are being stupid. yeah I said 335+. 329-334 seems to be a tough range for healers with really great execution needed by everyone. but 335+ mana should not be an issue as long as people get out of the black/purple/fire spots and you are going after the mobs in the order/priority needed.
I strongly disagree that the healers have the hardest job in heroics. They have an incredibly critical job, but I don't know how much more harder it is than me playing frogger with splashes on the floor while trying to keep adds sheeped and dealing out damage to the current skull icon. However I do agree with sweet talking them after only because when things fail in Cata heroics, it's usually the healers who are chewed out. Still, CC and coordination play a lot bigger part in a successful heroic than a 340+ geared healer who knows how to play his class perfectly, not that that isn't really nice to have.
edit - as for calling out cc targets... just agree on it before starting. I am comfortable at this point tagging all of my CCs, but if the tank/guide wants to do it more power to them. Either way I have to remind them to pull the pack away from my CC, lest my Living Bomb finale breaks my sheep.... god I hate that groups are still having to get used to playing with a fire mage....
I haven't healed yet this expansion, but it seems like it's currently the toughest job. I'm a tank, and while tanking can be hairy sometimes (that's the point), most of the tension comes from just trying to make things as easy as possible to heal. Though I guess some people might find tanking difficult.
the problem with most tanks is that in lich king, they just charged in and ae tanked/pulled everything
the problem with cat dungeons is
it requires THOUGHT and Planning to pull correctly, this is more of a reversion to old school MMO pulling (everquest style/vanilla wow)
i'm a shaman, in the few dungeons i have done. the 7p's(proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance) - with me assigning and pulling using pathing, using line of sight, etc = with my typical dungeon group. (normal dungeons, we are building our gear to do heroic's now- we are casual raiders)
a pull of 6 = usually 2 mobs on the tank-unless resists happen (humanoid pull)
i assign the symbols, have my wife- the hunter- drop the trap ~2/3rd or halfway between me and the mobs, then use hex to pull. the mobs charge at me, the mage sheeps her target during the pull, the paladin tank stands by me and takes the rest after the lead guy gets frozen. then my wife usually sleeps the last straggler if she has time. and the space.
the problem with cat dungeons is
it requires THOUGHT and Planning to pull correctly, this is more of a reversion to old school MMO pulling (everquest style/vanilla wow)
i'm a shaman, in the few dungeons i have done. the 7p's(proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance) - with me assigning and pulling using pathing, using line of sight, etc = with my typical dungeon group. (normal dungeons, we are building our gear to do heroic's now- we are casual raiders)
a pull of 6 = usually 2 mobs on the tank-unless resists happen (humanoid pull)
i assign the symbols, have my wife- the hunter- drop the trap ~2/3rd or halfway between me and the mobs, then use hex to pull. the mobs charge at me, the mage sheeps her target during the pull, the paladin tank stands by me and takes the rest after the lead guy gets frozen. then my wife usually sleeps the last straggler if she has time. and the space.
this was my real point. It sucks that the main focus of a failed heroic comes down to "heal better NOOB" and not "well, you shouldn't have been standing in the big purple circle" or "I shouldn't have to Ice Block on the floor spike because the healer should have me covered for the damage" or "Why should I have to use bandages? That's why we have a healer!"Flib said:
I guess my point is that the heroics are harder, and it shouldn't be solely up to the healing classes to accommodate for that completely. I know no one in here is saying that, but it sure seems like in-game that's the expectation. Bring bandages, use CC, casters use your interrupts when you see him casting that 45K AOE spell, mages if you can't move out of the way (especially if you're about to be juggled into an AOE) IB right away, everyone make sure you are prioritizing targets and not just attacking the first thing you Tab to. etc. these are difficult things EVERYONE has to concentrate on.
Again, not saying healers don't have a hard time.. not at all.. but if everyone is doing their job right, EVERYBODY should be having a bit of a hard time. tanks have it slightly easier this time (less mobs with CC, less running around, etc), but DPS definitely has their difficulty cut out for them if they are going to be doing their primary job (DPS) while still mitigating damage to make sure that a 340+ geared healer isn't running oom because his mana < damage being taken.
I do have ilevel ~336ish for my heal gear and trash packs generally don't cause me trouble, unless its specifically designed to cause trouble (see my previous example, and trash packs like the HoO ones.)
But CC and perfect DPS still doesn't change some boss mechanics (tons of aoe aura bullcrap) that just needs to be healed through. And that's where healer oom issues are the most predominant because it takes so much mana to heal group, and it heals so little comparatively to hp pools.
Its doable obviously, but that's where the toughness of healers 'argument' arises from. The decision whether to sit in an aoe, or heal the MT cause he's gonna die, etc. etc. I don't knock DPS tho cause i've seen some great micromanaging things that take alot of effort to do (kiting adds for an entire fight), but the argument is, as a whole, healer has the toughest at this point in time of the game simply because of how ...'nerfed(?)' healing is doing comparative to hp pool.
I flash healed a MT with 150k hp against those two lumps pull before the goblin boss and i couldn't keep him up chaining flashes. I lay'd of hands him, then chained flashes til i went oom. then havok.
But CC and perfect DPS still doesn't change some boss mechanics (tons of aoe aura bullcrap) that just needs to be healed through. And that's where healer oom issues are the most predominant because it takes so much mana to heal group, and it heals so little comparatively to hp pools.
Its doable obviously, but that's where the toughness of healers 'argument' arises from. The decision whether to sit in an aoe, or heal the MT cause he's gonna die, etc. etc. I don't knock DPS tho cause i've seen some great micromanaging things that take alot of effort to do (kiting adds for an entire fight), but the argument is, as a whole, healer has the toughest at this point in time of the game simply because of how ...'nerfed(?)' healing is doing comparative to hp pool.
I flash healed a MT with 150k hp against those two lumps pull before the goblin boss and i couldn't keep him up chaining flashes. I lay'd of hands him, then chained flashes til i went oom. then havok.
KibblesBits
Member
Why does Blizzard always screw over people trying to get Winter Hats? Seems like it's only gonna drop in heroics this year...
Mister Zimbu
Member
KibblesBits said:
You should still be able to get it from LK normals. I'd imagine Nexus on normal is pretty much soloable by anyone at 85.
popsicle_sundays
Member
Anybody else play a resto shammy? Notice how shitty the mastery is for us...
Ive been stacking haste, int, spirit, crit and I heal heroics so easily (ilevel around 346 I believe).
It just seems like we got the shaft mastery wise, probably for the better, Id hate to have to incorporate mastery and lose haste or crit.
Ive been stacking haste, int, spirit, crit and I heal heroics so easily (ilevel around 346 I believe).
It just seems like we got the shaft mastery wise, probably for the better, Id hate to have to incorporate mastery and lose haste or crit.
to be fair, I don't think it's reasonable to expect blizzard to make every secondary stat useful for every build. as a mage (any mage) haste and mastery carry very little weight.FuttBuck said:
as for heroics, 346 is really well geared for heroics. especially if you're running with other similarly geared players. the gear seems to scale really quickly above 333. I am willing to guess that if you ran even a guild run with players all at the heroics minimum you would still be close to oom on trash and boss pulls. but yeah, that's what we started seeing. as gearing approached and went past 340 wipes were becoming much less frequent and one shots were starting to happen often. I know we can one shot everything up to lost city.. we haven't done them this week yet but I am guessing Vortex and HoO can be one shot now also. deadmines and sfk there might still be at least a wipe on, and I haven't been in heroic grim yet.
joelseph said:
Ah well that'd do it.
So far my most hated fight is the dragon in pinnacle. You can be handed some pretty bad luck in that fight. The tornados have a deceptive range... then sometimes luck rolls not in your favor and you bounce from one to another to another to your death.
Diatribe1974
Member
joelseph said:
Easy as hell fight:
1) Dps Boss
2) Kill Adds
3) Dps Boss
4) Dps Adds
5) Avoid Pygmy whirlwinds
6) Repeat 1-4
7) Kill Pygmy whirlwinder
8) Collect Loot
we one shotted that no problem. everyone stay away from the tail but near the tank, tank grabs the adds and you can burn lockmaw down before the adds become a problem. as long as you fight him back by the bridge combat with Augh doesn't even start right away giving you time to heal.joelseph said:
Everyone actually lol'ed in vent because we were having a few problems with the mine boss spamming crazy mines and just avoiding them and then we get to Augh and Lockmaw and it was comically easy.
Granted I've only done a few pug heroics, but I've yet to have a failpug. Every single one has gone smoothly and quickly.
But I've also not have any pugs that have tried to AOE their way through a heroic. CC and target priority does NOT mean crawling through an instance. It can still be fast.
The key is to just use what CC you have available. As a Warlock we aren't really much of a CC class, but I've been called on to banish elementals in trash pulls in pretty much every Grim Batol run I've been on.
Banish an elemental, sap/sheep/whatever one other enemy. Then mark a skull to burn ASAP. If trash is done that way automatically, you can zip right through instances without a problem.
As for bosses... eh. Jus don't stand in the fire, etc. There are a few that are trickier (I can't remember offhand) but I've yet to come across any that are truly brutal.
But I've also not have any pugs that have tried to AOE their way through a heroic. CC and target priority does NOT mean crawling through an instance. It can still be fast.
The key is to just use what CC you have available. As a Warlock we aren't really much of a CC class, but I've been called on to banish elementals in trash pulls in pretty much every Grim Batol run I've been on.
Banish an elemental, sap/sheep/whatever one other enemy. Then mark a skull to burn ASAP. If trash is done that way automatically, you can zip right through instances without a problem.
As for bosses... eh. Jus don't stand in the fire, etc. There are a few that are trickier (I can't remember offhand) but I've yet to come across any that are truly brutal.
Subliminal
Member
Admiral ripsnarl is a bitch. Its pretty much a gearcheck which very few groups can pass.
What kind of DPS does a damage class need to sustain in Heroics to be successful? I'm still only halfway through 84, but I just wanna know what to shoot for.
Edit: And that's obviously not to say that DPS is the only thing a damage class needs to do in dungeons, but you still need it along with CCing and whatnot.
Edit: And that's obviously not to say that DPS is the only thing a damage class needs to do in dungeons, but you still need it along with CCing and whatnot.
the dude in BRC is a tank check. As long as the tank doesn't fuck up it's easy. If the tank doesn't know what to do you'll wipe. The adds aren't bad (45K elite I think) but the lava on the floor becomes unmaneuverable.
or the dragon fight in vortex. yeah, heroics aren't impossible.. just a huge difference from wrath.. need much smarter playing. the only ones that are harder are the ones with specific mechanics.
or the dragon fight in vortex. yeah, heroics aren't impossible.. just a huge difference from wrath.. need much smarter playing. the only ones that are harder are the ones with specific mechanics.
I am typically doing around 7K sustained bursting up to 8.5K or so and we do fine with it... starting heroics I think I was doing around 6K bursting up to around 7K. Fire mage here. My ability to burst typically scales with my crit (which is now at almost 18%) and my ability to use combustion and impact to pass around max DOTs (pyroblast, living bomb and ignite). the last fight of Tides before the big starfish most recently I dhad around 12K sustained thanks to all three dots with critical mass, combustion and impact as well as constantly tabbing and keeping living bomb present. everyone gave me a "holy shit" at the end of the fight (even though I ended up dying against the starfish :\)ultron87 said:
The Lamonster
Member
What's the best way to earn Guild rep? Will wearing the tabard do anything for me?
I want to be at least Honored in my guild when we reach level 10 so I can buy the BOA gear.
I want to be at least Honored in my guild when we reach level 10 so I can buy the BOA gear.
So
Ele Shaman still lingering in the bottom of compiled DPS charts in raiding. Same old shit.
Another Ele player tidbit: Rogues continually outheal me in arena despite my spamming heals on myself to survive. I know their self healing got nerfed, but it is still ridiculous to outheal a caster with 5k spell healing even if the caster is a hybrid dps. Throw in the fact that I have to stop dps to heal, while they continue all dps except for the current finisher and I remember all my complaints about this god damned game.
As much as they gave the game a makeover, most everything is still the same. There is no new thought to game design in Cata. It's repainting a chevy corsica.
End game is still unexciting. My only hope is for rated BGs, but I am not sure if that will be popular enough to do on a regular basis.
I do not like that gear score mentality is reinforced by the game system. Despite the re-implication of CCing, the gear score qualifiers neglect any real question of skill involved. CCing is not an active thing within the game, just a slow down in mob to mob procession.
Oh and searing totem doesn't work if you drop it before the boss encounter starts or before you attack a boss/mob. So, my opening rotation consists of dropping my totems, applying flameshock, then dropping searing, then back to actual rotation.
Ele Shaman still lingering in the bottom of compiled DPS charts in raiding. Same old shit.
Another Ele player tidbit: Rogues continually outheal me in arena despite my spamming heals on myself to survive. I know their self healing got nerfed, but it is still ridiculous to outheal a caster with 5k spell healing even if the caster is a hybrid dps. Throw in the fact that I have to stop dps to heal, while they continue all dps except for the current finisher and I remember all my complaints about this god damned game.
As much as they gave the game a makeover, most everything is still the same. There is no new thought to game design in Cata. It's repainting a chevy corsica.
End game is still unexciting. My only hope is for rated BGs, but I am not sure if that will be popular enough to do on a regular basis.
I do not like that gear score mentality is reinforced by the game system. Despite the re-implication of CCing, the gear score qualifiers neglect any real question of skill involved. CCing is not an active thing within the game, just a slow down in mob to mob procession.
Oh and searing totem doesn't work if you drop it before the boss encounter starts or before you attack a boss/mob. So, my opening rotation consists of dropping my totems, applying flameshock, then dropping searing, then back to actual rotation.
etiolate said:
What? Gear score has always been implemented by Blizz for random dungeons, it's just now transparent so you know what to work towards. My only complaint about it is it's implemented horribly and can be cheated. Yes gear score sucks, but also there SHOULD be a minimum. Would you be happy if a healer came walking in with a ton of 300 greens on a heroic? I don't care how good of a healer they are, they're going to run outta mana. There *has* to be a reasonable minimum, and I'm glad Blizz set it and not a bunch of players (who will ask for a score higher than possible).
The Lamonster
Member
Gotta love the completely pointless tabards. I was hoping there was some kind of fast-track to gain guild rep. Dang.Sai-kun said:
The Lamonster
Member
2 birds 1 stoneFlib said:
thanks
Ferrio said:
It reflects a lack in progress in game design. WoW is still six years behind the competition in design. It also reinforces a problem within the community. Blizz should have seen what was happening near the end of WoTLK in the community and game and thought, gee what got to change this up. Instead, they were just like "ok".
Unrelated, but I found it humorous that the new Gilneas BG is a copy of a Warhammer Online skirmish. Made it pretty easy to win my first time, as normally it takes many attempts at a BG before learning its proper strategy.
as stated, there has to be a gearscore to some degree.. yes it can be cheated, but only to a small degree (talking about the actual in-game GS, not addons).etiolate said:
as for CC'ing "not being active"... I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for... WoW will never be Ninja Gaiden or even Vindictus. While Blizzard has made heroics harder, they can't exactly make heroics where if one guy isn't pulling his weight the whole group doesn't have a chance regardless of gear. despite the emphasis now on guilds there is still too much PUGing that NEEDS to go on.
Increasing the need for CC, the need for damage mitigation AND target priority is a huge step up from the direction the game was going after vanilla launched (to be fair much of that stuff existed in vanilla). will it make sure only the cream rises to the top? no, of course not.. but at the same time it DOES take emphasis off of gear score. Previously gs was made mandatory because a GS of xxxx ensured that no matter the quality of the group you could beat the heroic in 20 minutes. Now a good group in the low 330s is still going to be able to beat the heroic, and a bad group in the upper 340s is definitely still going to wipe. this alone puts an underemphasis on GS.
it's not really "behind in progress". It's a type of game design (progression) and it's meant to be that way. The same type of game design in D&D, most console RPGs and PC RPGs, etc. I also find it funny when you say Blizz is behind the competition, even though 90% of what the competition does is just aping blizz.etiolate said:
as for reinforcing a problem in the community, the problem exists in ALL communities. "What's the quickest way possible to achieve the goal". If blizz did away with GS the community would resort to achievements. If blizz did away with achievements the community would resort back to inspects. If blizz did away with inspects the community would resort to some other sort of qualifier or just build their own. As long as this is a progression game, random players are going to want to be with other random players who have progressed the furthest. It can be frustrating, but as blizzard has done quite a bit now to take the focus off of it just being about "higher gs beats all".
now if you don't like this style of game, that's certainly fine.. but you cant' sit here and quip "the game is so archaic and behind everyone else" as that's not the case. In terms of progression style RPG gameplay, WoW is still top of the charts. And considering the most interesting projects coming up are outside of the standard progressive RPG system, it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon.
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