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[Sai-kun]

What kind of stats am I looking for as an Enh Shaman, rather than an Ele one?

 

[Bisnic]

I'm pretty sure Hot Streak in general procs less often than Arcane Missiles would, to balance it being more powerful.

As for Inscription:

It takes a few months to get all the glyphs (and will be especially difficult now with about half the discovered ones coming from the books, which will be harder to come by).

Honestly, even though I have all the glyph recipes, I just don't spend the time making money with glyphs, even though I could. I made some decent money with Darkmoon Cards, and made myself a Hurricane Deck (that I originally intended to sell, but just equipped when the prices went from ~40-50k to about 20k or less during the week of the faire.) Although even that market has crashed somewhat on my server for the moment at least, even though the high end herbs have been relatively stable.


Honestly, once you have a certain amount of gold, I found I became a bit more lazy when it comes to making money, especially with multiple maxed professions.

If I ever needed more gold quick, I have the potential to make it, but otherwise, I'm too lazy.

And I'm still sitting on about 40k+ worth of Maelstrom Crystals, so there's that. The other people on my server have almost run out of their stock.

I know what you mean. My mage have 34k gold, my warrior have 22k gold, my shaman has 9.5k, my rogue has 3k... they all have epic flying mounts, they all have Herbalist, Alchemy, Enchanting, Mining, Jewelcrafting, Inscription, Tailoring & Skinning.

I do not even bother to make glyphs or gems or enchants or whatever to sell on the AH. What's the point when i have almost 70k combined with all my alts and that i can make almost everything i need for myself except melee enchants for pants with LW and an addiotional slot for belts with BS? I only use my gold for these 2 things and some BOE epics that arent sold for a ridiculous prices.

And i can sell 1 inferno ink for 175-200g, and those things are really easy to make on my mage main that is herbalist+inscription, i do not even need to farm herbs to make gold.

 

[Trasher]

What kind of stats am I looking for as an Enh Shaman, rather than an Ele one?

Agility is your main stat, and your mastery is also very good. It's also incredibly important to be expertise and hit capped once you are 85.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Well, I'm still pretty poor. I just level alts and never pursue professions, so basically each time I get around 5k, I've got a new character at 70 who needs epic flying.

So hopefully I stick with this mage and can make his 5k through glyphs, rather than farming on my 85s.

 

[Sai-kun]

Agility is your main stat, and your mastery is also very good. It's also incredibly important to be expertise and hit capped once you are 85.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=56494

Tsunami Boots of the Galeburst? Like those?

 

[Gravijah]

Well, I'm still pretty poor. I just level alts and never pursue professions, so basically each time I get around 5k, I've got a new character at 70 who needs epic flying.

So hopefully I stick with this mage and can make his 5k through glyphs, rather than farming on my 85s.

I can't make a new character without planning what their profession will be, hehe.

 

[Trasher]

http://www.wowhead.com/item=56494

Tsunami Boots of the Galeburst? Like those?

Windstorm and Zephyr aren't bad either. I believe exp and hit are less important while leveling, but still good to have. So if you are hurting for those stats then I'd say go with the Galeburst ones.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I can't make a new character without planning what their profession will be, hehe.

I totally respect that. I have:
85 paladin -- mining maxed, blacksmithing ~35
85 hunter -- skinning maxed, herb ~100
84 warrior -- mining maxed, enchanting ~250

My other characters that are in their 70s I'm TRYING to keep them somewhat up to date now. But it's tough since I just got sidetracked and want to level. I'm getting a bit better about it...

Mainly, I just need to be able to subsidize all of my alts, and once I get to honored with a guild, I'm going to need to buy a crapload of heirlooms too.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Unfortunately, it seems like the discussion is moving towards "Hiring more people does nothing / Yes it does" and everyone is kind of ignoring whether fixing broken content should be a priority or just paved over with new content. Oh well.

There's a recurring problem tho. There's always a debate on why X shouldn't be done or prioritized because most of the user base do not care about X before we get to hired help debates. I hate it because 1- they have no data to make that claim and 2- it doesn't nessisarily dicate what they protitize. Banks slots is an example. No plans to increase space. A person in dire need could spent 10k on an alt with it's own guild for 588 slots. I guess a minority are willing to do that and that it helps them not need to upgrade their data storage. Spending 10, 20, even 30k on your char for extra slots seems like a reasonable compromise. The goal to have a tabard manager probably helps their data storage in the long run. I and tons of other people only have a handful so it doesn't help that much at all.

 

[wonderdung]

Can I create a macro hotkey for switching speccs? It's kinda annoying going into the talent menus all the time.

Yeah, you can. Will edit the macro into this post when I get home after work.

Edit:

/usetalents [spec:1]2;[spec:2]1

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's a recurring problem tho. There's always a debate on why X shouldn't be done or prioritized because most of the user base do not care about X before we get to hired help debates. I hate it because 1- they have no data to make that claim and 2- it doesn't nessisarily dicate what they protitize. Banks slots is an example. No plans to increase space. A person in dire need could spent 10k on an alt with it's own guild for 588 slots. I guess a minority are willing to do that and that it helps them not need to upgrade their data storage. Spending 10, 20, even 30k on your char for extra slots seems like a reasonable compromise. The goal to have a tabard manager probably helps their data storage in the long run. I and tons of other people only have a handful so it doesn't help that much at all.

Except the problem is, you guys pigeonholing me on the wrong side when that wasn't my point at all. I only really chimed in to say that the junior's point that Blizzard encourages people to stop playing bad content so that they can never work on it again is a pretty awful take.

They *should* fix bad or broken content; but I also don't necessarily believe it's possible to just go in and make it better. It takes time to bake those kinds of changes and I wouldn't be surprised if they ARE working on redesigning TB, but it's not like if they increased their development staff from 130 to 140 it would come out faster.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hot Streak is Hot Streak. The two tier have no difference on the proc. The first tier is only to replace your AM proc with Hot Streak proc, nothing more. Second tier is where you give yourself a better chance of it proccing on successive crits.

To understand the phenomenon you are describing, you have to remember that all of your spells have a travel time.

You cast a fireball, on your casting lead time you start your second fireball. Partway through that second cast your first fireball connects and procs hot streak. after your second fireball cast you cast Pyroblast! (instantly) during which your second fireball hits and procs Hot Streak. Thus you have two Hot Streaks without seeming like you cast two spells. You just have to remember that Hot Streak procs when the spell crits which is after it hits, and it doesn't hit until a sec or two after you cast it.

This is a bit confusing; they provide the same buff, but T3 Hot Streak provides a chance to proc HS on a single crit, whereas T4 Hot streak provides a guarantee of a proc on successive crits when you put both points in it. It's possible to proc it numerous times in a row by getting a T4 proc with doublecrits and then having the random proc occur after that.

I think that might have been the point you were making, though, it's just slightly confusing wording.

I wish they'd fix the ignite bugs, but it sounds like those are virtually unfixable engine issues.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I can't make a new character without planning what their profession will be, hehe.

I totally respect that. I have:
85 paladin -- mining maxed, blacksmithing ~35
85 hunter -- skinning maxed, herb ~100
84 warrior -- mining maxed, enchanting ~250

My other characters that are in their 70s I'm TRYING to keep them somewhat up to date now. But it's tough since I just got sidetracked and want to level. I'm getting a bit better about it...

Mainly, I just need to be able to subsidize all of my alts, and once I get to honored with a guild, I'm going to need to buy a crapload of heirlooms too.

It's quite a time investment to level/manage multiple characters and professions.

This is what I've been working on since launch while waiting for friends to catch up:

1. Got my 80 DK to 85. Mining and JC are both 525.
2. Leveled a Goblin Warrior with friends. It's 84 right now with 510 Engineering and 510 Blacksmithing. Chose them because they went well with mining and benefit the DK as well.
3. Leveled a 70 to 75 with 250 Enchanting for the Alch/Enchanting trick. Wound up being too late and had to level it to 84 to get the most out of the professions. Alch is maxed and enchanting is 515 right now. I'll probably keep it at 84 for now. I don't see me getting to DE enough instance gear right now.

I've been buying herbs. It'd be nice to have a Tauren Pally herbalist, but that wont be for a while cause I'd have to start at level 1.

I have a dilemma tho. Not sure what I want to focus on PVE with. To get the most out of Blacksmithing I need BOP Chaos orbs....

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's definitely problematic, and I wouldn't really want to theorize what I'd do to fix it since I myself haven't played it. But I can say with confidence that I'd rather rip the entire PVP element out than let it sit there and continue to frustrate and annoy players.

Maybe that's unrealistic, but from my chair Blizzard should drop this idea of a "PVP Zone" since it's continually plagued by the same problems (disorganization, faction imbalance). Within the context of WoW's game mechanics and community, there may not actually be a viable solution.

Unfortunately, it seems like the discussion is moving towards "Hiring more people does nothing / Yes it does" and everyone is kind of ignoring whether fixing broken content should be a priority or just paved over with new content. Oh well.

I dunno what it is about Cataclysm, but in this thread alone it seems like a lot of people are unsubscribing while the content is still relatively new. Usually you see people coming back at the start of an expansion, but this time it seems like everyone was excited and then quickly lost interest. All of my friends and family were excited, but none of them are playing anymore either.

Any speculation I could make on why this seems to be happening would probably lead to unpleasantness, but I can't help but wonder if the "WoW Magic" is starting to fade. Not because of any competing game, mind you, but because a game can only go for so long before people get bored with it.

Faction imbalance is a pain in the ass they can't really solve: perhaps they could find a way to work this into a cross-server solution, although I can think of a lot of problems with that too.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I have a dilemma tho. Not sure what I want to focus on PVE with. To get the most out of Blacksmithing I need BOP Chaos orbs....

Currently, I have 3 85s, all with maxed professions, and none of them can use Chaos Orbs.

Pretty fail right there.

Though the mage with tailoring (and a second alch) is 65 right now. And I just starting working on the prot pally (mid 40s) again, with blacksmithing.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Agility is your main stat, and your mastery is also very good. It's also incredibly important to be expertise and hit capped once you are 85.

Indeed. Also a note is that haste is dead last in terms of stat priority. Crit isn't terrible bad, but the best secondary stat is by far mastery once you're hit and expertise capped.

Spell hit cap > Expertise cap > mastery >>> Crit >>>>>>>haste

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

It's quite a time investment to level/manage multiple characters and professions.

This is what I've been working on since launch while waiting for friends to catch up:

1. Got my 80 DK to 85. Mining and JC are both 525.
2. Leveled a Goblin Warrior with friends. It's 84 right now with 510 Engineering and 510 Blacksmithing. Chose them because they went well with mining and benefit the DK as well.
3. Leveled a 70 to 75 with 250 Enchanting for the Alch/Enchanting trick. Wound up being too late and had to level it to 84 to get the most out of the professions. Alch is maxed and enchanting is 515 right now. I'll probably keep it at 84 for now. I don't see me getting to DE enough instance gear right now.

I've been buying herbs. It'd be nice to have a Tauren Pally herbalist, but that wont be for a while cause I'd have to start at level 1.

I have a dilemma tho. Not sure what I want to focus on PVE with. To get the most out of Blacksmithing I need BOP Chaos orbs....

Go with a tauren druid. I think the crusader aura is offset by mounting/dismounting.

Wait, isn't your main a druid?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Go with a tauren druid. I think the crusader aura is offset by mounting/dismounting.

Wait, isn't your main a druid?

Don't have a druid at all. It'd start at level 1 also if I went that route.

 

[thetrin]

Just a quick show of hands. Anyone here play Alliance on Silvermoon? Always looking for new people to do instances with.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

It's quite a time investment to level/manage multiple characters and professions.

This is what I've been working on since launch while waiting for friends to catch up:

1. Got my 80 DK to 85. Mining and JC are both 525.
2. Leveled a Goblin Warrior with friends. It's 84 right now with 510 Engineering and 510 Blacksmithing. Chose them because they went well with mining and benefit the DK as well.
3. Leveled a 70 to 75 with 250 Enchanting for the Alch/Enchanting trick. Wound up being too late and had to level it to 84 to get the most out of the professions. Alch is maxed and enchanting is 515 right now. I'll probably keep it at 84 for now. I don't see me getting to DE enough instance gear right now.

I've been buying herbs. It'd be nice to have a Tauren Pally herbalist, but that wont be for a while cause I'd have to start at level 1.

I have a dilemma tho. Not sure what I want to focus on PVE with. To get the most out of Blacksmithing I need BOP Chaos orbs....

I've got the following:

85 lock with max 525 skill enchanting/tailoring
85 warrior with max 525 skill mining/jewelcrafting
83 pally with max 525 skill herbalism/alchemy
55 priest with herbalism/inscription (but I don't have the slightest interest in leveling those right now)

I think I'm more interested in just getting my pally to 85. Other than that, I'm focusing on raiding on the lock.

How does blacksmithing work? With tailoring, there are 5 different ways to make dreamcloth, each with individual 6 day cooldowns. They involve combining 30 of each volatile element with bolts of cloth. You can also combine 5 chaos orbs with cloth to make dreamcloth, and that particular method has no cooldown. But getting chaos orbs is a pain, so I don't usually mess with it unless I happen to have them on me by chance.

Does blacksmithing require chaos orbs to make mats for armor/weapons, or are the chaos orbs required to make the actual pieces of gear/weapons themselves? I only ask cuz tailoring together epic legs and belt requires 6 and 4 pieces of dreamcloth respectively, but it is possible to make them without chaos orbs. Just takes more time. I guess my long question was really just to find out if blacksmiths had something equivalent to dreamcloth for tailors.

 

[Entropia]

Indeed. Also a note is that haste is dead last in terms of stat priority. Crit isn't terrible bad, but the best secondary stat is by far mastery once you're hit and expertise capped.

Spell hit cap > Expertise cap > mastery >>> Crit >>>>>>>haste

Haste is crap for Enh shaman now? Funny, before it was their best stat.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I've got the following:

85 lock with max 525 skill enchanting/tailoring
85 warrior with max 525 skill mining/jewelcrafting
83 pally with max 525 skill herbalism/alchemy
55 priest with herbalism/inscription (but I don't have the slightest interest in leveling those right now)

I think I'm more interested in just getting my pally to 85. Other than that, I'm focusing on raiding on the lock.

How does blacksmithing work? With tailoring, there are 5 different ways to make dreamcloth, each with individual 6 day cooldowns. They involve combining 30 of each volatile element with bolts of cloth. You can also combine 5 chaos orbs with cloth to make dreamcloth, and that particular method has no cooldown. But getting chaos orbs is a pain, so I don't usually mess with it unless I happen to have them on me by chance.

Does blacksmithing require chaos orbs to make mats for armor/weapons, or are the chaos orbs required to make the actual pieces of gear/weapons themselves? I only ask cuz tailoring together epic legs and belt requires 6 and 4 pieces of dreamcloth respectively, but it is possible to make them without chaos orbs. Just takes more time. I guess my long question was really just to find out if blacksmiths had something equivalent to dreamcloth for tailors.

Right fter you open up Twilight Highland vendors by hitting 84 and doing the intro chain, you buy all the patterns for 1000 Elementium Ore, 120 Volatile Earth and 90 Pyrium Ore.

As far as the things that require chaos orbs.. the only things that do are crafting epic 359 shields, belts, and chests and blue 346 weapons. They also require truegold and hardened Elementium.

Edit: The orbs are raw mats.Certain things require 1, 2, or 3.

So, a person wanting to buy those items have to pay for their chaos orbs or buy it crafted off the AH. I don't know what the common price is, but I saw someone advertise 1k for a BS orb.

 

[charlequin]

Maybe that's unrealistic, but from my chair Blizzard should drop this idea of a "PVP Zone" since it's continually plagued by the same problems (disorganization, faction imbalance). Within the context of WoW's game mechanics and community, there may not actually be a viable solution.

I'm not sure world PvP zones are a good idea, really. Faction balance is basically impossible to manage in such a scenario and it's extremely difficult to make the kind of extra rewards tied to the last two "fair" in terms of how people get access to them.

To some degree, I think that if they want to encourage world PvP in certain specific places, a better thing than one giant objective that you need to balance would actually just be forced-PvP (i.e. you auto-flag even on PvE servers) zones with lots of different little objectives to fight over -- i.e. take the battleground part of Tol Barad out entirely and expand on the questing element of the peninsula.

I dunno what it is about Cataclysm, but in this thread alone it seems like a lot of people are unsubscribing while the content is still relatively new. Usually you see people coming back at the start of an expansion, but this time it seems like everyone was excited and then quickly lost interest. All of my friends and family were excited, but none of them are playing anymore either.

This honestly strikes me as selective anecdotal evidence. (Not that you're selecting it to make an inaccurate point, mind, just that it only covers one type of experience and isn't necessarily representative.) My wife and I resubbed after being out since 2006 and so did like five of our friends; everyone's still playing and new people are still trickling in. My experience is that it's a great time to come back, really.

I do think there's "less" to do than there was at level cap right at TBC or Wrath launch, in some senses, and I do think the inability to faceroll is probably leading to some people giving up, but beyond that it's hard to see what people are having problems with. The consensus really seems to be that the opening-tier raids in Cata are a step up from Wrath in quality, for example.

What kind of stats am I looking for as an Enh Shaman, rather than an Ele one?

You want Agility. All your armor is shared gear with hunters. Your best secondary stat is mastery, then crit, then haste.

 

[Twig]

I'm glad Blizzard doesn't listen to you people, because on my server, balance isn't a problem, and we always have good fights in the world PvP zones when they're active. Are they as organized as they could be? No. But they're still fun..

If they're ever removed permanently, then the game will decrease in quality a billionfold.

Whine whine whine but blizzardddddddd i'm not getting everything i waaaaaaaaant whine whine whine.

Gratz! I'm 4 days of dailies away from being revered with the oracles. How many eggs did you buy before you got the mount?

About ten or so eggs total. x:



I have 16 chaos orbs on my engineer warrior and nothing to make with them. The crossbow and gun don't sell anymore.

):

 

[J-Rzez]

This is entirely speculative. You have no clue how much any of this costs and/or how many people they already have; you're just operating under the assumption that if you had 1000 people working on it, Blizzard could put out an expansion in a week.

No, I think it's pretty safe to assume that more artists/modelers = more art assets = less recycling of everything in the damn game. We saw their financial reports before, and I think they can afford to hire a couple more artists so they don't rape the shit out of the Tier models anymore. You know that all the offset pieces that drop in the raids now are recycled models of Tier gear, basically every piece. So for one tier of raids now, they make the tier sets (check box all armor done lawl), they make a few weapon models (check done again), and call it a day across not just 10 man, but 10 and 25 man content.

Then lets take a look at the pvp sets. All three tiers are recolors with no added effects or anything. Blizzard has become very-very lazy/lame lately, it's a shame to see the quality of the game marred by stupid cost-cutting or lazy tactics. Especially since raiding has been fantastic.

TB was going to be a joke no matter what once they said "even teams only". No. I pay my money to play the damn game, I shouldn't be punished for playing on a server in which all the alliance left. But sure enough, I'm being punished, locked out of content, while still paying the same fee. They should've left it like WG was originally, and tweak it's values from there. No reason to pull a dick move on your paying community like that. And this isn't like "oooh, i pay money, where's my epics" or "raiding's hard, make it easy" cries, this is a legitimate complaint.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

About ten or so eggs total. x:



I have 16 chaos orbs on my engineer warrior and nothing to make with them. The crossbow and gun don't sell anymore.

):

Good job taking all those orbs from crafters who will actually use them! I mean this sincerely since I know how much you love to make other peoples lives miserable in WoW.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Are there many rogue's on your servers? warcraftrealms.com says my server has 17k players. I did a /who test and there's about 30 or more 85's of each class on and only 6 rogues. 80-85 is only 13. 1-85 is 34.

How are rogues these days?

 

[Twig]

Good job taking all those orbs from crafters who will actually use them! I mean this sincerely since I know how much you love to make other peoples lives miserable in WoW.

You realize people can't roll on them unless they can actually use them, right? I avoid PUGs as much as I can, so I'm always rolling against guildies, and if they need it, I let them have it. If not, we both roll, and whoever gets it, gets it.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I'm not sure world PvP zones are a good idea, really. Faction balance is basically impossible to manage in such a scenario and it's extremely difficult to make the kind of extra rewards tied to the last two "fair" in terms of how people get access to them.

To some degree, I think that if they want to encourage world PvP in certain specific places, a better thing than one giant objective that you need to balance would actually just be forced-PvP (i.e. you auto-flag even on PvE servers) zones with lots of different little objectives to fight over -- i.e. take the battleground part of Tol Barad out entirely and expand on the questing element of the peninsula.

I do think that they can improve on World PvP. Wintergrasp was a step in the right direction (always being flagged there, regardless of battle or not) and Tol Barad is a step back in this regard. However, adding zone objectives that actually matter (but not too much) (ala Burning Crusade, or even Eastern Plaguelands/Silithus) as well would be better. Something more than just a more favorable graveyard or a slight damage buff, but maybe a movement speed increase, or bonus gold/tokens on dailies in the peninsula. Things like that.

I do wish that Blizzard adds more faction objectives to the Cataclysm zones in future patches, even if they aren't necessarily PvP-based. Be they dailies, or turn-ins, or whatever to unlock something.

Honestly, I like the sort of gating that the AQ event or Sunwell brought - that sense of collaboration and that something is actually happening to get somewhere for a whole server is great. I like gating based on effort, rather than hard time.

 

[TheExodu5]

Are there many rogue's on your servers? warcraftrealms.com says my server has 17k players. I did a /who test and there's about 30 or more 85's of each class on and only 6 rogues. 80-85 is only 13. 1-85 is 34.

How are rogues these days?

Rogues are up there in raids...though maybe a bit behind DKs (who are getting a nerf), and hunters. In my guild, I am top dps in most fights though.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Are there many rogue's on your servers? warcraftrealms.com says my server has 17k players. I did a /who test and there's about 30 or more 85's of each class on and only 6 rogues. 80-85 is only 13. 1-85 is 34.

How are rogues these days?

Seem to be fewer rogues at 85 than any other classes on my server. Locks are a bit low as well.

Rogues are in a good spot for DPS though, so it's not based on that - it's just that fewer people play rogues in general, I think.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Rogues are up there in raids...though maybe a bit behind DKs (who are getting a nerf), and hunters. In my guild, I am top dps in most fights though.

What class are you and what spec are the rogues?

 

[charlequin]

I do think that they can improve on World PvP. Wintergrasp was a step in the right direction (always being flagged there, regardless of battle or not) and Tol Barad is a step back in this regard.

Alright. Other than copying Wintergrasp, though, what would improve it?

Honestly, I like the sort of gating that the AQ event or Sunwell brought - that sense of collaboration and that something is actually happening to get somewhere for a whole server is great. I like gating based on effort, rather than hard time.

Yeah, that's something I actually do miss quite a bit. I love the idea of giant collaborative world efforts and I think it's the best way they've found to show that the Horde and Alliance can work together when mediated by a third party (while still having individual players be "at war.") I'd love to participate in something like the AQ event again.

 

[Alex]

PvP needs it's own game system, that's the only way they're going to get it out of the rut it's in. While they've done decent things with combat pacing, now other elements, such as crazy CC or interrupts on everything, etc are now dragging it down.

There will ALWAYS be something to mess with PvP while it's running with the same skills, talents, etc that are used for modern PvE. That only really worked at all back in the day when raiding and dungeons were fairly simplistic and class mechanics weren't being done in such fair attempts between sepcs.

If they're so insistent on this path, and clearly a lot of the community likes to PvP, they might be best off just making an expansion based around it. A new honor system, sanctioned/possibly cross server world PvP, putting PvP on it's own systems, possibly talent tree, city raids etc.

Make it a big Alliance vs Horde expansion, not like you couldn't make some sweet raiding and dungeons based off of that.

Maybe they just need to bring in some new design staff and do another large rethinking of some things, ala BC. Ghostcrawler and co has done a pretty good job in systems that make the game accessible to casuals and hardcore alike and also in progressing the general PvE game but for as popular as Blizzard titles are for competition, I can't help but think they're leaving a lot on the table for not going back to PvP.

Pardo is the only one that seemed to kind of get the failings of the modern systems. That gives me hope for Titan, but it doesn't do much when I don't think he's even on the WoW team after LK launched..

 

[TheExodu5]

What class are you and what spec are the rogues?

I'm an Assassination Rogue.

I'd say I'm at the top due to both competence, and the fact that I'm the only raiding rogue in the guild.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/skullcrusher/prinny/simple

We're not a high level guild by any means though.

6/12 in 25 mans

8/12 in 10 mans

We've got some bad healers, and quite a few bad ranged dps that really bring us down.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm no programmer or designer and have no formal training or experience in ANY of this sort of thing, but wouldn't it be relatively trivial to just make certain abilities react differently if it's hitting a player on the other end (in the same way as an ability hitting an enemy with a barrier absorbs it rather than dealing damage)?

I mean, rebalancing the PvP in the same way as their own peers at Blizzard did with SCII seems like the logical way to solve this. Is it just pride that's keeping them from doing this?

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I'm no programmer or designer and have no formal training or experience in ANY of this sort of thing, but wouldn't it be relatively trivial to just make certain abilities react differently if it's hitting a player on the other end (in the same way as an ability hitting an enemy with a barrier absorbs it rather than dealing damage)?

I mean, rebalancing the PvP in the same way as their own peers at Blizzard did with SCII seems like the logical way to solve this. Is it just pride that's keeping them from doing this?

I think the official explanation is that tooltips would end up being too long.

Which is sort of fail.

 

[dimb]

I'm no programmer or designer and have no formal training or experience in ANY of this sort of thing, but wouldn't it be relatively trivial to just make certain abilities react differently if it's hitting a player on the other end (in the same way as an ability hitting an enemy with a barrier absorbs it rather than dealing damage)?

I mean, rebalancing the PvP in the same way as their own peers at Blizzard did with SCII seems like the logical way to solve this. Is it just pride that's keeping them from doing this?

I really don't like this idea. It makes things too complicated. If you use an ability it shouldn't do something different depending on context.

SC2 is entirely different. The single player is something you go through once and forget. In WoW PvE is always there, so you can't make the PvP game turn your character into something else entirely.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I really don't like this idea. It makes things too complicated. If you use an ability it shouldn't do something different depending on context.

More complicated yes, but allows for PvP changes without affecting PvE.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I'm an Assassination Rogue.

I'd say I'm at the top due to both competence, and the fact that I'm the only raiding rogue in the guild.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/skullcrusher/prinny/simple

We're not a high level guild by any means though.

6/12 in 25 mans

8/12 in 10 mans

We've got some bad healers, and quite a few bad ranged dps that really bring us down.

nice

what's your rotation? i'm having fun combat leveling.

deadly momentum gives me.. momentum.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I don't feel like it would need to be actual changes to the nature of the attack, just small changes to the various percentages and the like under the hood that make certain abilities take the appropriate amount of damage during PvP scenarios, or what have you. You don't need to learn a whole new move set, it's just a slight change to the way you intuit an ability when you target a mob versus when you target a player. Intuit being the key word there, because I feel like the human brain, particularly that of the hardcore MMO player, is more than capable of drawing those distinctions on a whim after a negligible amount of time spent practising.

I'm not presenting anything new, I'm sure Blizzard -- hell, even you guys in this thread -- have been over it a million times. It's just a bit strange that the only real comment we have from Blizzard is "tooltips=long".

 

[Cyrillus]

Blizzard has said they don't want to make spells have separate PVE and PVP effects, because it would get too confusing. This hasn't stopped them from making spells that only affect PVE or PVP targets, mind you, which I think is just as lazy design as giving spells different PVE and PVP effects.

 

[Alex]

Another thing that could be used, even for PvE now that it's been brought up, is that this game REALLY doesn't need any more abilities. If anything, they should go back and condense some of the stuff they already have. Too many buttons that are useless and too many buttons that define the class, not enough middle ground.

I don't want to just have a few limited skills that I'm using every fight, but I don't really want to have 40+ keybinds either, to be honest.If they condensed the classes, then double purposed every skill, or even made another talent tree just for PvP, it wouldn't be so bad.

Also, at this point, maybe they should just consider getting rid of most buffs. If everyone has everything, why do they even need to exist? Maybe just eek em out and make a new support role that could plug gaps in tanks, healer or DPS while buffing.

Game is probably just too old for this kind of heavy arm chair design though.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Blizzard has said they don't want to make spells have separate PVE and PVP effects, because it would get too confusing. This hasn't stopped them from making spells that only affect PVE or PVP targets, mind you, which I think is just as lazy design as giving spells different PVE and PVP effects.

What about Dark Simulacrum? "Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells."

I thought people in PVE could unleash mob spells tho..

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Blizzard has said they don't want to make spells have separate PVE and PVP effects, because it would get too confusing. This hasn't stopped them from making spells that only affect PVE or PVP targets, mind you, which I think is just as lazy design as giving spells different PVE and PVP effects.

I played a lot of Diablo II and really disliked the way that spells were completely different for PVE vs PVP. WoW is already going that direction with gearing (resilience vs. pve gear), so who knows how far they'll stretch it.

 

[dimb]

More complicated yes, but allows for PvP changes without affecting PvE.

I just don't like PvE and PvP being separate. Resilience started this in Burning Crusade, and frankly it just doubles the timesink for players who want to do both. Half of the fun of getting great gear in the original WoW was crushing other players with it.

Giving abilities separate properties depending on PvP or PvE is a nightmare really, because a good player has to be aware of their allies' abilities are in both settings, and the enemy abilities in PvP.

Right now PvP balance is just a mess because healing is overpowered, and the nerf to the healing debuffs is killer. Healers can stay up for far too long without extensive and perfectly timed stunlocking. The only two specific classes that are out of control in PvP are mages and death knights. The balancing doesn't seem that difficult to deal with to me, particularly because mage CC/kiting is something I'd consider too powerful even in PvE compared to other classes.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

What about a required armor set for battlegrounds? All throughout history you've had fighters in similar armor. In modern sports/competition you all have the same gear.

Having a unique mixture of armor is appealing in this kind of universe, but Arena has always been famous for fighters with different gear advantages. Could also have it in rated bg's.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

What about a required armor set for battlegrounds? All throughout history you've had fighters in similar armor. In modern sports/competition you all have the same gear.

Having a unique mixture of armor is appealing in this kind of universe, but Arena has always been famous for fighters with different gear advantages. Could also have it in rated bg's.

Personally, I like this idea, assuming they could get the balance right for the different specs--and why couldn't they with item budgets. It would be a lot more competitive if it came entirely down to skill--but then, what are the advantages of doing BGs if the items you get aren't useful in PVE or PVP?

 

[Twig]

Another thing that could be used, even for PvE now that it's been brought up, is that this game REALLY doesn't need any more abilities. If anything, they should go back and condense some of the stuff they already have. Too many buttons that are useless and too many buttons that define the class, not enough middle ground.

I don't want to just have a few limited skills that I'm using every fight, but I don't really want to have 40+ keybinds either, to be honest.If they condensed the classes, then double purposed every skill, or even made another talent tree just for PvP, it wouldn't be so bad.

Also, at this point, maybe they should just consider getting rid of most buffs. If everyone has everything, why do they even need to exist? Maybe just eek em out and make a new support role that could plug gaps in tanks, healer or DPS while buffing.

Game is probably just too old for this kind of heavy arm chair design though.

As much as I dislike Guild Wars for a lot of things, the one thing that I really like about it is the skill system. Only eight at a time, maximum. I don't have to use macros or addons to be effective, just those eight skills, which I can change whenever I want, but can never INCREASE in total number. Though, to be fair, I dunno how much the hero companion system thing might have complicated things, as I never played past Factions.

I don't think such a system would benefit WoW, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree that WoW needs to lose a lot of the bloat. And especially with the homogenization that you sort of mentioned, it just seems dumb to even leave that stuff in the game if it's all going to be the same.

 

[Rapstah]

The fun in a limited amount of spells system is finding semi-exploity combinations of spells. In WoW, they'd all be found, analyzed and used by everyone within 45 minutes.