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World of Warcraft |OT2|
- Thread starter EviLore
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Heroic Fury is nice but isn't Bladestorm. And, yes, I know Fury has a similar "immune to all CC for seconds" effect. I've played fury before. It's no Bladestorm.
Fury has less mobility.
Also, despite having more self heals, fury is more susceptible to damage, which is bad in PvP. I know they hit a lot harder, but if they get CC'd to hell, which is GOING to happen, they go down faster.* Most of their self heals rely on actually doing damage, IIRC?
And as much as I like Heroic Leap, it's fucking buggy as shit, and until they fix it, it's um... yeah. They still haven't fixed Blink! "What? I blinked backwards? COOL!" That's been happening since vanilla.
Side note, somewhat related: it's bullshit that locks can use teleport vertically as long as they're in range but I can't heroic LEAP up a fucking HILL at a 20 degree incline.
):
* Unless they're smart and go into defensive stance with a sword 'n' board, of course. U: Then it's about the same.
Fury has less mobility.
Also, despite having more self heals, fury is more susceptible to damage, which is bad in PvP. I know they hit a lot harder, but if they get CC'd to hell, which is GOING to happen, they go down faster.* Most of their self heals rely on actually doing damage, IIRC?
And as much as I like Heroic Leap, it's fucking buggy as shit, and until they fix it, it's um... yeah. They still haven't fixed Blink! "What? I blinked backwards? COOL!" That's been happening since vanilla.
Side note, somewhat related: it's bullshit that locks can use teleport vertically as long as they're in range but I can't heroic LEAP up a fucking HILL at a 20 degree incline.
):
* Unless they're smart and go into defensive stance with a sword 'n' board, of course. U: Then it's about the same.
I'm sorry but I just don't understand where you are coming from at all. Fury gets around much quicker and on its own accord. Charging once and then being put out of range immediately can almost be a death sentence against certain classes.
Your love of Bladestorm is just...confusing. It might break certain CC but it locks you into a bad DPS cycle.
Your love of Bladestorm is just...confusing. It might break certain CC but it locks you into a bad DPS cycle.
It's buggy. Ever done eye of the storm as a warrior? Yeah.Ferrio said:
Sounds like a personal problem.
I have both charge and intercept in combat. Heroic leap. Bladestorm. Berserker rage.Dance In My Blood said:
Fury shares intercept, heroic leap, and berserker rage. Loses charge (unless out of combat) and bladestorm for its own special thingers, but I think arms wins in this particular race.
To be fair, next patch intercept and charge share cooldowns, so that's getting nerfed...
I like bladestorm because it instantly breaks out of roots and snares and makes me immune for a short period and I get to do damage. The DPS isn't ideal against a single target, but it's also not HORRIBLE. It's not like I'm auto-attacking for the duration. Bonus if you're getting focused by multiple melee with a pocket healer. It's also a great defensive move to get out of a bad spot. Especially combined with intervene/sword'n'board.
Your hatred for Bladestorm is just...confusing.
You can cancel Bladestorm! I do it all the time. You're bad if you never cancel.
Twig said:
These are all great points, except that they have nothing to do with Arms DPS in heroics, which is what was asked. Dance In My Blood correctly said Fury does better DPS in heroics, I don't know why you feel the need to bring up Arms being more mobile and more resilient in PVP, when it was completely off topic to the question.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Twig said:
Seriously man, do you have to react to everyone like this?
I meant nothing by it. I was quoting Day of the Tentacle, if you must know. When you pester the lady sewing the first American flag about actually getting it done, she says: "Don't get yer panties in an uproar, now!" I love this phrase and have used it ever since I played the game as a kid.cuevas said:
I freely admit that I've said and will continue to say trollish things, but that was completely and utterly innocent. Are you really so offended? Really? What about that post made you feel as if you had to "call me out" like that?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Given that virtually every time anyone disagrees with you your stock response is that they're getting too worked up, it's just trolling whether you're doing it on purpose or not.Twig said:
Just stop doing it and people won't accuse you of derailing conversations.
I don't get how you figure Arms is getting nerfed, HS damage is doing down, but Slam damage is going up and LttS is a permanent stack.Twig said:
TurtleSnatcher
Member
BAM!
Cataclysmicly Epic achievement obtained!
Got 359 in each slot
Cataclysmicly Epic achievement obtained!
Got 359 in each slot
cuevas. PhD.
Member
TurtleSnatcher said:BAM!
Cataclysmicly Epic achievement obtained!
Got 359 in each slot
People were getting this like 3 weeks after release by selling back epic PVP gear
If he likes to PvP the juggernaut change, drums of war being taken off piercing howl, and LttS changes being a heavy burst nerf would have a negative impact on him.Angry Grimace said:
Slam damage is not going up for Arms, but for Fury on their proc, and haste enhancing the ability isn't being put in yet because Blizzard is slow and lazy.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
LttS affects Slam but not HS, and Slam's inherent damage coefficient is higher in the first place.Dance In My Blood said:
Trolling is, by definition, intentional.Angry Grimace said:
Stop doing what? Talking like a human being? Assuming people are mature enough to not get upset over light-hearted comments?
Hmm, no thanks.
Everything about that post was built to emphasize that it's not a huge deal, and yet you still took offense. That is not my problem. It is yours.
That is true. Damage-wise, arms is probably about the same, I dunno. I'm naturally inclined to think in terms of PvP, which doesn't deal exclusively with damage.
Fury is getting a million buffs, though. So, arms is getting relatively nerfed?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Saying "I'm not trolling," doesn't make it true. You've either got an inflated sense of how much people value your opinion or you're trolling. Just stop doing the constant "why u mad" posts. It's really annoying and contributes absolutely nothing.Twig said:
Damage wise, Arms isn't getting nerfed at all. Slam's damage coefficient is 175% weapon damage from 125% and LttS is a semi perm. 30% buff that affects MS, OP, Slam and Execute. It's a significant buff, but it's more boring because it forces you to use Slam in PvE over HS, which is inherently less interesting because Slam is on the same GCD as everything else and requires little complexity to use.
I take back what I said before. You clearly are trying to troll me. You're very determined, and I admire that! But it should probably stop soon, I think.Angry Grimace said:
I hold no grudges against anyone in this thread, despite the numerous personal attacks, just so you know!
Hm. I did say I agreed with you.
But Mister Blood is correct. LttS doesn't currently affect Slam, and I see nothing in the PTR notes about that changing. Looking at MMO Champion, here, so maybe I'm missing something? Where are you seeing this? D:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It doesn't matter, the LttS change increases Slam's damage overall anyways, and the actual weapon damage percent is about 20% higher.Dance In My Blood said:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2011384Twig said:I take back what I said before. You clearly are trying to troll me. You're very determined, and I admire that! But it should probably stop soon, I think.
I hold no grudges against anyone in this thread, despite the numerous personal attacks, just so you know!
Hm. I did say I agreed with you.
But Mister Blood is correct. LttS doesn't currently affect Slam, and I see nothing in the PTR notes about that changing. Looking at MMO Champion, here, so maybe I'm missing something?
It affects Slam but it's not going to matter in PvP since for the most part, anyone eating 3 MS's is probably dead.
That'd be amazing, but no.
Yes and yes. C'est la vie.Dance In My Blood said:
On the topic of slam in PvP, there's also the issue of lag. I frequently have trouble hitting people with instant casts, despite clearly being in range on my screen, and having a sub 200 ping, which should suffice for WoW (but wouldn't in a FPS). HAMSTRING HAMSTRING HAMSTRING WHY ISN'T IT WORKING! I can't imagine the frustration of trying to use slam, even at a 0.5 second casting time, on a moving target. I'm already tearing up a little.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Congrats?cuevas said:People were getting this like 3 weeks after release by selling back epic PVP gear
I only have the pvp weapon to take me over it.. :\
cuevas. PhD.
Member
I'll get 100 Twilight Jasmine then log. Okay 100 didn't take too long. 200 and I'll put em up on the AH and go to sleep. Eh I have 206 might as well finish the stack. Damn 2021 gotta keep going. Okay 260 is a good stopping point. But I'm so close to 300...
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
Twig said:
I haven't had any issues with fury mobility or taking too much damage.
Fury is already overpowered 4.0.6 will be the icing on the cake.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The fact that Demo is the top sim'd DPS spec for 4.0.6 Warlocks makes my head spin.
I don't even know how to play Demo, not that I'd switch. Call me old-fashioned but it just feels like Affliction should always be the de-facto warlock spec.
I don't even know how to play Demo, not that I'd switch. Call me old-fashioned but it just feels like Affliction should always be the de-facto warlock spec.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Rapstah said:
Different specs serve different purposes, they don't want to make them equal. When it comes to pure dps classes, there is going to be 1 pvp spec and 2 pve specs. They probably want to gear one towards maybe AoE and the other single target. Or possibly like in BC one spec (affliction) is for less-geared players and the other (destro) is for players in high end gear.
Anyone's server having huge lag spikes? Everyone on my server is complaining about them. (Burning Legion US) Probably getting ready for patch tuesday or something...
AdventureRacing
Member
Twig said:
I play in arena with a fury warrior and he seems to do OK with mobility and also seems to survive a reasonable amount. We're up to about 1800 and i don't think our combination is all that good (enhance/fury).
Twig said:
Ferrio said:
Again the fury warrior i play with gets a ton of use out of the spell and his never complained to me about it not working.
As for blink i have never heard of mages complaining about this before. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but i've never met a mage who has mentioned it (nor have i encountered it).
Twig said:
I'll agree that heroic leap should probably be more usuable on inclines, but i don't see why you're comparing the 2 skills. They are very different and are used for completely different purposes.
Again, fury is fine in PvP. I was only explaining why I prefer arms. I thought I made that perfectly clear with my first post on the subject when I said "it's more fun"!AdventureRacing said:
I get a ton of use out of it, too, but it's still buggy as shit.
Have him go run around in Eye of Storm. It's the best/worst example of how buggy Heroic Leap can be.
It's been a problem since vanilla - one of my friends has been bitching about it since vanilla, at least - and when I finally rolled a mage alt recently, I experienced it myself. It's horrible. Rare, but still horrible.
It was random bitching, that's it. You're focusing too much on the what and not enough on the why! It's stupid as hell that a lock and jump off the platform in Dalaran sewers and port back up, but I can't heroic leap up the stairs. "No path available" my ass.
That's not it, though. I do understand that, perfectly well. It's still buggy, and there's absolutely no way anyone could deny it if they've had any real experience with it.Dance In My Blood said:
I'm not talking about going up and OVER the hill. Just up the hill period.
Also, Eye of the Storm. D:
EDIT: In retrospect, the Dal sewers was a bad example, because that usually works all right. U: If I'm coming at it from an angle, it sometimes screws up, but for the most part, it's all right.
cougheyeofthestormcough
Your character does not look up. If there is elevation at eye level do not expect to heroic leap. There is certainly almost always a given logic to it.Twig said:
Eye of the Storm has awful terrain and is just a bad battleground in general. Attacking hill points with Heroic Leap is just asking for trouble.
If it was an LOS issue, then there would be some obstacle obstructing the view from my character to the point at which I would like to perform any action. Hence: Line of Sight.Dance In My Blood said:
You can't heal someone behind a pillar, but you can heal them if they're up a hill.
You can't jump through a pillar, but you can jump up a--- oh wait.
If the logic was CONSISTENT for every skill, then it wouldn't be buggy, it would just be STUPID that I couldn't heal someone standing on or jump up a hill. Instead, it's inconsistent, which screams BUGS BUGS BUGS! You will not convince me otherwise, until Blizzard says otherwise, at which point I will revert to my "THIS IS STUPID" position. I:
More evidence to support my position lies in the fact that you CAN sometimes jump up hills and other times you can't! Inconsistency! It drives me bonkers, it does.
While I had a GM on the line for another issue (I accidentally deleted my fruit cakes and wanted 'em back so I could get Merrymaker!), I once mentioned it, and he said Blizzard was aware of the issue. Not that I think that really means anything, mind you!
I like EOTS.
Anyway, I like talking to you Blood because you don't get upset when I disagree with you. U: Now I'm off to bed. Tood-a-loo.
wonderdung
Member
Rokam said:
I use Elkano's Buffbars, but I believe PowerAuras does the same thing (?)
Before this stuff was added to default UI I had EBB display large, slightly transparent icons popping up in the middle of my screen on important procs.
Alex
Member
I really like the new 1-60 questing, but really, pre-modern leveling in this game is pretty terrible any time any actual design or balance or gameplay hits the field.
It's basically killing shit in a global cooldown, pulling full rooms of mobs at a time without a care in the world, etc. Slogging through BC now, I mean, you really don't even need a tank or healer for any of these dungeons nowadays, just 'splode em with AOE before they touch you and move on.
If Ghostcrawler wants to scold high some of the problematic players new to high end for bringing the suck, he should try designing a game that the first 80 levels in it aren't harder to fail at than to succeed.
I really love end game in this title, it is great fun with the way it's evolved, but leveling could be so much more if there was even an avenue for players who wanted the mechanics and challenge of cap at least moderately applied to the rest of the game.
Most folks just quest, so it's basically an adventure game for them, so it's pretty irrelevant I suppose. I like dungeons and challenge though, so it's a real pain in the ass for me.
On the plus side, I got five chapters in my book read on my kindle tonight and even some work done on the VPN while pushing multishot and topping DPS in BC randoms.
It's basically killing shit in a global cooldown, pulling full rooms of mobs at a time without a care in the world, etc. Slogging through BC now, I mean, you really don't even need a tank or healer for any of these dungeons nowadays, just 'splode em with AOE before they touch you and move on.
If Ghostcrawler wants to scold high some of the problematic players new to high end for bringing the suck, he should try designing a game that the first 80 levels in it aren't harder to fail at than to succeed.
I really love end game in this title, it is great fun with the way it's evolved, but leveling could be so much more if there was even an avenue for players who wanted the mechanics and challenge of cap at least moderately applied to the rest of the game.
Most folks just quest, so it's basically an adventure game for them, so it's pretty irrelevant I suppose. I like dungeons and challenge though, so it's a real pain in the ass for me.
On the plus side, I got five chapters in my book read on my kindle tonight and even some work done on the VPN while pushing multishot and topping DPS in BC randoms.
Evil Benius
Member
Well we made big progress with our raiding this weekend after completely changing up how we were handling invites and who was running things. Went from only having Omnotron down in BWD (and the lowest we ever got Magmaw was 75%) to only having Atramedes and Nefarian left in one weekend. We got Atramedes down to 45% last night, but people were screwing up to stupid shit so I think fatigue was setting in. Did not even put any attempts in on Council since we were making great progress in BWD, but I imagine we will work on them this weekend.
Evil Benius
Member
Alex said:
Yeah our current plan to finish things up is Atramades->Council->Cho'gall->Nefarian. It was just nice to finally be making progress after wasting so much time due to guild bullshit.
bad healer is bad. doesn't heal enough, goes oom each pull, says it's my fault (a couple of times it actually was, but not always. mistakes happen). i get kicked from party. ok? whatevs. requeue, get VP, this time we have pretty much NO CC, yet we have a good healer and coast through the instance without much trouble. i tank full groups like a boss, with no CC, and the healer just does a good job.
*sigh*
sometimes i just don't want to do any pugs, ever.
*sigh*
sometimes i just don't want to do any pugs, ever.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
so my guild finally killed Nefarian to go 12/12 in regular modes. Anyone with heroic experience know which raid boss we should hit up first? There is little current interest among the leadership to do heroic modes this week, but I'd like to at least go in on a separate 10 man group and see a fight or two.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
vehn said:
Well that doesn't seem very "flexible"
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