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World of Warcraft |OT2|

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Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Sebulon3k said:
What would Priests Mages and Warlocks use as a ranged physical attack when OOM if they took out Wands!?

Who the hell uses wands at high lvls anyway? The last time i used mine was because i was doing some low lvl quests where even my weakest spell could one shot a monster that needed to be captured while it was weak, or some shit like that.
 

Swag

Member
Bisnic said:
Who the hell uses wands at high lvls anyway? The last time i used mine was because i was doing some low lvl quests where even my weakest spell could one shot a monster that needed to be captured while it was weak, or some shit like that.
When I'm OOM on Chimaeron Phase 2, I pull out that Finkle's Mixer Upper and keep up the Deeps.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
CarbonatedFalcon said:
You have to have something in the slot mainly to balance the classes that can use ranged weapons. The primary culprit here is hunters. Unless they did something with how hunters use melee weapons as comparable to relics, then I don't know what else you would do.
What about fury warriors tho? 2h+2h+range. I could wear his gear as a DK but I don't have the extra 2h. The fury warriors raw stat potential seem to be above everyone else, but they nerf them in other ways?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
CarbonatedFalcon said:
You have to have something in the slot mainly to balance the classes that can use ranged weapons. The primary culprit here is hunters. Unless they did something with how hunters use melee weapons as comparable to relics, then I don't know what else you would do.
But stat levels don't need to be the same among classes for DPS levels to be the same.
 
Angry Grimace said:
I don't even get why they keep wands and relics in the game.

Because removing armor slots from the game is a huge pain and itemizing different classes with different numbers of slots is also a huge pain.

I mean, you read the answers about gear or his old forum posts and it's clear GC doesn't like the very existence of the ranged slot. Right now, either you're one of nine caster/melee classes and you have a pointless stat rock or useless knife or something in your "ranged" slot, or you're a hunter and you have a pointless stat stick in your melee slot; there's no class where one of those slots isn't wasted. I'm pretty sure there are also more armor slots in total than the devs would prefer at this stage (17 total slots -- you could probably cut that to 12 and see a net improvement in the game) but it's just not that easy to actually fix at this late stage what with all the now-useless old gear you'd have to reitemize, etc.

Angry Grimace said:
But stat levels don't need to be the same among classes for DPS levels to be the same.

You don't itemize classes in a vacuum, though. If different classes have different armor slots, balancing out the "correct" stats to put on the other slots becomes an infinitely more complex process. Right now they can balance every class around the idea that, say, an enhancement shaman and a hunter with BiS gear will have the same agility rating, etc.
 
Sebulon3k said:
When I'm OOM on Chimaeron Phase 2, I pull out that Finkle's Mixer Upper and keep up the Deeps.

Blizz said:
We have been discussing what role in the game wands are supposed to fill. We generally consider it a failure these days if a caster ever wants to wand for dps instead of using their spells.

Failure!
 
If they shouldn't be stat sticks then do something else with them (with a small bonus to stats). Don't just take them away. I do agree they are kind of useless in their current state.

Something like give them an on use effect that casts a custom spell (sort of like a 3rd trinket).

Or make them like an equippable mini-glyph whose effect depends on what class you are.

Wand of Awesomeness
+50 mastery
Priest: Your lightwell has 10 additional uses.
Warlock: Your incinerate spell leaves a DoT on the enemy.
Mage: Your frost spells now yield green fire.

Add 5 or 6 of those per tier and you're all set.

There. Wands are interesting now.
 

Tamanon

Banned
The last time I remember actually even using a wand for damage was back in AQ20 on some fights to proc the Judgement of Wisdom.
 

markot

Banned
Real time guild chat on your phone. Keep in touch with your guildmates and always be in on your guild's discussions with the new mobile Guild Chat feature. With a subscription to World of Warcraft Remote, you can view and participate in your guild's chat in real time, engage in one-on-one conversations with other guild members, and more!

Subscription Features

Stay in touch with your entire guild wherever you are
See which guildmates are online
Initiate one-on-one conversations with guild members
Keep the guild up-to-date with your Arena team and Rated Battlegrounds plans
Filter by guild chat, officer chat, and whispers


Blizzard : Priorities in order!
 

Tamanon

Banned
markot said:
Real time guild chat on your phone. Keep in touch with your guildmates and always be in on your guild's discussions with the new mobile Guild Chat feature. With a subscription to World of Warcraft Remote, you can view and participate in your guild's chat in real time, engage in one-on-one conversations with other guild members, and more!

Subscription Features

Stay in touch with your entire guild wherever you are
See which guildmates are online
Initiate one-on-one conversations with guild members
Keep the guild up-to-date with your Arena team and Rated Battlegrounds plans
Filter by guild chat, officer chat, and whispers


Blizzard : Priorities in order!

Mobile device team is probably rather different than in-game team. Plus, they've said they were working on it forever. I'll actually subscribe to the mobile stuff now.
 

markot

Banned
Why?

Its not like there a 9999999 other ways, better ways, to communicate with people on mobile phones that dont cost a cent >.>

Also it still takes resources, and it seems those are in short supply in blizz land, what with the great 4.1 and the 2 dungeons of rehash and not much else.
 

Alex

Member
Call to Arms queue rewards, another feature that'll need testing tacked onto an already bloated megapatch that they promised to stop making.

It may reduces queues some, but the overall "reward" of it is going to be perpetually for tanks, kinda silly.

In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.
Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.
Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.
This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.
While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.
We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
 

Mairu

Member
Sebulon3k said:
I thought the numbers at the top were his gold amount / total gold on server!
No it's just an experience bar that I'm too lazy to disable since I'm not farming any reputations at the moment

Alex said:
Call to Arms queue rewards, another feature that'll need testing tacked onto an already bloated megapatch that they promised to stop making.

It may reduces queues some, but the overall "reward" of it is going to be perpetually for tanks, kinda silly.
I like it, gives me a reason to dungeon queue again if I'm bored :p
 

Alex

Member
I would like it if it wasn't being slammed onto 4.1, it all feels like a stall because Firelands isn't done.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is awesome though. I don't give two shits if it causes 4.1 to be delayed, because shorter queue times is something I actually give a fuck about. I'd like to see increases in VP or JP gains though (even ever so slightly); there's plenty of people that don't give a damn about gold or impossible to get mounts.
 
Besides the Deathcharger and the Swift White Hawkstrider, are there even any other mounts available from dungeons?

I already have the Raven Lord, and pursued that because it was a unique model. Just those two mounts and pets (which I don't care about so much) as well as likely trivial amounts of gold/consumables don't provide much more incentive for me to do a dungeon than I would have had already. If I wanted to do a dungeon, the extra rewards are just bonuses. Otherwise, I could spend time farming or playing the AH in less time than it would take to run the dungeon and have profited more - the downside of that being less engaging than running a dungeon, but avoiding the frustration that may come with a bad group of randoms since to qualify you have to queue solo.
 

Manus

Member
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Besides the Deathcharger and the Swift White Hawkstrider, are there even any other mounts available from dungeons?

I already have the Raven Lord, and pursued that because it was a unique model. Just those two mounts and pets (which I don't care about so much) as well as likely trivial amounts of gold/consumables don't provide much more incentive for me to do a dungeon than I would have had already. If I wanted to do a dungeon, the extra rewards are just bonuses. Otherwise, I could spend time farming or playing the AH in less time than it would take to run the dungeon and have profited more - the downside of that being less engaging than running a dungeon, but avoiding the frustration that may come with a bad group of randoms since to qualify you have to queue solo.

Two drakes from 85 dungeons and 1 from a 80 dungeon.
 

Swag

Member
Those incentives are awesome, although I'm probably anticipating the rewards to be a higher chance then what they will be.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Besides the Deathcharger and the Swift White Hawkstrider, are there even any other mounts available from dungeons?

I already have the Raven Lord, and pursued that because it was a unique model. Just those two mounts and pets (which I don't care about so much) as well as likely trivial amounts of gold/consumables don't provide much more incentive for me to do a dungeon than I would have had already. If I wanted to do a dungeon, the extra rewards are just bonuses. Otherwise, I could spend time farming or playing the AH in less time than it would take to run the dungeon and have profited more - the downside of that being less engaging than running a dungeon, but avoiding the frustration that may come with a bad group of randoms since to qualify you have to queue solo.
The Drake of the North Wind, the Vitreous Stone Drake, the Bronze Drake, the Blue Proto Drake, the Zulian Panther, the Zulian Raptor, the Amani War Bear #2, the Deathcharger, the Raven Lord and the Hawkstrider. Most of the holiday mounts are rare drops, but I don't think it's likely they'd be included. A recolor of the Headless Horseman's mount would be kind of neat though, since that mount is really cool, and the Black Drake would "fit" with Cataclysm, but I doubt that too.

My "rare-ish" mounts are: Hawkstrider (and Cenarion Hippogryph) on my Worgen Warlock and the Deathcharger on my DK, Headless Horseman's mount on my priest, Kodo and Ram on my warrior, and Zebras on my Paladin and Rogue.
 
I wasn't thinking about flying mounts when I posted earlier, but probably only since they didn't mention flying mounts as examples of ones available from this system.

I wasn't counting the new ones that will be available from ZG/ZA remix either since I don't think they would include those - this seems to be more for pushing legacy "rare" mounts.


Sidenote: I lurve my Raven Lord, even though I have the almost unquestionably rarer Swift Zulian Tiger (on a Horde character.) I pull them both out in about equal proportion though. Those are probably my two rarest ground mounts, though I have a decent amount of holiday mounts as well.

A person in my guild was always a bit jealous of the Zulian Tiger, but this guy had every TCG item, including the Spectral Tiger. He usually runs around on the chicken though.
 

Alex

Member
Some people are really angry about this goodie bag thing. Lately, this games community can really break all boundaries of creepy.

I'm mostly getting a laugh out of folks insinuating tanks are going to open their first bag and it'll be swarming with mounts (after Blizzard stated very, very low drop rate) and of course how that's so totally undeserved! All they did is tank a heroic for a bunch of 4k DPS mouth breathers! On the other hand, they put in the work by doing those 5 minute long Sethekk Halls runs and endured those 15 level down mobs!

So silly, they're ancient vanity ground mounts in an expansion where you don't even use ground mounts outside of BGs anymore. It's just a fun perk that benefits everyone except the folks who can't see past their own entitlement complex.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Alex said:
Some people are really angry about this goodie bag thing. Lately, this games community can really break all boundaries of creepy.

I'm mostly getting a laugh out of folks insinuating tanks are going to open their first bag and it'll be swarming with mounts (after Blizzard stated very, very low drop rate) and of course how that's so totally undeserved! All they did is tank a heroic for a bunch of 4k DPS mouth breathers! On the other hand, they put in the work by doing those 5 minute long Sethekk Halls runs and endured those 15 level down mobs!

So silly, they're ancient vanity ground mounts in an expansion where you don't even use ground mounts outside of BGs anymore. It's just a fun perk that benefits everyone except the folks who can't see past their own entitlement complex.
If a DPS hardly ever gets a call to arms, they can only try for the mount once a day and the tanks/healers get multiple trys for the mount a day.

Only time will tell how viable getting mounts with it is and if DPS ever get call to arms.
 
Alex said:
Some people are really angry about this goodie bag thing.

Are they? Lawl. I can't help but chuckle.

I am a bit sad about it because I'm sure it'll never, ever actually call for healers; I put together a resto set to help my guild (and queue faster lulz) but although I'd be happy to tank instances for people I'm not gonna level an alt just to do it.

HixxSAFC said:
the amount of shitty tanks in lfg is about to explode.

In my optimistic heart of hearts I want to believe that this will lead most of those shitty tanks to become good tanks through experience and practice (kind of like the healers I get in the RDF, who almost never seem to be the weakest link) rather than just filling the system with a glut of Lolsephiroths.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Alex said:
Call to Arms queue rewards, another feature that'll need testing tacked onto an already bloated megapatch that they promised to stop making.

It may reduces queues some, but the overall "reward" of it is going to be perpetually for tanks, kinda silly.

This isn't good. First off, this is going to further yet delay 4.1 which should have launched at least a month ago considering what's in the patch content wise and is a critical mistake. Secondly, the new heroics will get some more people to queue up if anything for a very short period of time again. Finally, the new point system will hurt things overall, as many people in need of their top-tier pts will stack up and run multiple dungeons in one sitting, opposed to spreading them throughout the week.

They just don't seem to get it, they can't wrap their head around the real issue here, and they continue to throw some scatterbrained ideas at a wall hoping to get something to stick. People are just tired of the content and want new experiences already...
 

Swag

Member
Can anyone help me out with an order of which bosses to do on heroic?

I was thinking;

Halfus -> Conclave -> Chimaeron -> Magmaw -> Omnotron -> Valiona / Theralion -> Atramedes -> Ascendant Council -> Cho-Gall -> Al'Akir -> Nefarian -> Sinestra?

I'm trying to get the 10 man guild I joined to get the ball rolling, they are content with progressing so slowly. It's annoying doing bosses on normal and sharding 3/4 of the items that drop.
 
Sebulon3k said:
Can anyone help me out with an order of which bosses to do on heroic?

I was thinking;

Halfus -> Conclave -> Chimaeron -> Magmaw -> Omnotron -> Valiona / Theralion -> Atramedes -> Ascendant Council -> Cho-Gall -> Al'Akir -> Nefarian -> Sinestra?

I'm trying to get the 10 man guild I joined to get the ball rolling, they are content with progressing so slowly. It's annoying doing bosses on normal and sharding 3/4 of the items that drop.

Everything before AC is fine seeing as it only should take you guys a couple nights to get each encounter. Nef is easier than AC,Chogal, Alakir and Sinestra so you should start there. Do Alakir after nef. That leaves you with AC, Chogal and Sinestra. You could try to do both of those before Sinestra but I saw a guild skip AC and do Chogal > Sinestra. It really depends on what type of comp you have for your raid.
 

Alex

Member
J-Rzez said:
This isn't good. First off, this is going to further yet delay 4.1 which should have launched at least a month ago considering what's in the patch content wise and is a critical mistake. Secondly, the new heroics will get some more people to queue up if anything for a very short period of time again. Finally, the new point system will hurt things overall, as many people in need of their top-tier pts will stack up and run multiple dungeons in one sitting, opposed to spreading them throughout the week.

They just don't seem to get it, they can't wrap their head around the real issue here, and they continue to throw some scatterbrained ideas at a wall hoping to get something to stick. People are just tired of the content and want new experiences already...


I'm actually not bothered by content at the moment at all, I'm working on heroic modes and thus appreciate the Firelands delay in a way, but I want a lot of the other things in 4.1/4.2 and going forward and am pretty peeved at them not just breaking it all up into multiples since they promised smaller/quicker patches.

No new build this week so far, either! Hopefully the next build has a lot of bug fixes in it.
 
I honestly doubt that they're just coming up with new features on the fly and adding them to 4.1 as they go along. It's way more likely that they're just rolling existing features that were already planned for 4.1 to the PTR incrementally instead of all at once.

I really doubt that there's too much feature creep going on here.
 
Mister Zimbu said:
It's way more likely that they're just rolling existing features that were already planned for 4.1 to the PTR incrementally instead of all at once.

Well, the problem there is that all the features that weren't ready in the first two weeks should've been "planned" for 4.1.2 or something instead.
 

Morn

Banned
J-Rzez said:
This isn't good. First off, this is going to further yet delay 4.1 which should have launched at least a month ago considering what's in the patch content wise and is a critical mistake. Secondly, the new heroics will get some more people to queue up if anything for a very short period of time again. Finally, the new point system will hurt things overall, as many people in need of their top-tier pts will stack up and run multiple dungeons in one sitting, opposed to spreading them throughout the week.

They just don't seem to get it, they can't wrap their head around the real issue here, and they continue to throw some scatterbrained ideas at a wall hoping to get something to stick. People are just tired of the content and want new experiences already...

Mass exodus of players to Rift does that to a company.
 
cuevas said:
Forget about the reduced queue times they loved to bitch about.

wut

It bugs me a little just because they're making it so much easier for specific classes to get
pointless
items. Also depending on implementation it could only serve as a queuing incentive for like a week and a half if the mounts are actually easy to get.

Should have stuck with increased gold/valor/justice. And done it for 4.2 instead.


Morn said:
Mass exodus of players to Rift does that to a company.

When did that happen?
 
charlequin said:
Well, the problem there is that all the features that weren't ready in the first two weeks should've been "planned" for 4.1.2 or something instead.

I disagree- even if they're useless-ish features I would still consider them major features which tend to go to major version numbers instead of minor ones.

The minor releases are usually devoid of any major UI changes or anything of the like and are closer to hotfixes than anything else.

I'm not saying that 4.1 will be the second coming of christ, or even *good*, or that the delay (if there even is a delay- we never were given an actual release date for this patch if I recall). But I think it's kind of silly to say "Why are they still adding features to 4.1" like these weren't planned originally. It's not like Minecraft where some random dev just says "Hey, I just came up with X idea. I'll add it to 4.1 right away".

Hasn't Blizzard said before that they tend to incrementally roll out features to the PTR instead of dropping the entire patch at once to get more focused testing as the features as they drop?
 
Mister Zimbu said:
The minor releases are usually devoid of any major UI changes or anything of the like and are closer to hotfixes than anything else.

Errr, that's exactly the problem. It's downright idiotic to patch that way when separating content (like the new dungeons) from systems (like the Call to Arms) from class design (like the new abilities and major balance tweaks they're making) from itemization changes (like the ones in this patch) would allow all of these things to roll out to the userbase faster and waste less time in the type of crosstalk bug fixing necessitated by rolling out lots of different, unrelated changes at once.

Morn said:
Mass exodus of players to Rift does that to a company.

Heh, that's cute.
 
I'm not against more frequent patches with less features per patch, of course. That's fine by me (though it may present logistical testing issues with Blizzard).

I'm more addressing the frequently-heard complaint of "why don't they stop adding features to 4.1 and release it already?", which is more than likely not what they're doing.

Moreover, it's highly unlikely that the same developers working on the UI for things like Call to Arms and the Guild Finder are the same as developers that would be able to solve whatever server or client stability issues the PTR may be having at this time to begin with.
 
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