Would you bring back 'crunch culture' in gaming to eliminate delays?

Bring back Crunch Culture?


  • Total voters
    316
The quality of work has definitely improved since they got rid of it.

I can't remember the last time I saw a buggy unfinished game...
 
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I've been working 6 days a week nearly my entire adult life. I would say don't make it mandatory, but let people volunteer for overtime. I think many many people would want it.
 
I voted no but I don't think crunches ever went away especially with AAA games. Sometimes the whole team needs to put in more hours to get a project over the finish line.

Seems more like a tech industry thing more than anything.
 
I've been working 6 days a week nearly my entire adult life. I would say don't make it mandatory, but let people volunteer for overtime. I think many many people would want it.

Yes, the big, widely discussed problem in the games industry is that during crunch time, there just isn't enough overtime available for everyone who wants it! You read so many complaints about that, just legions of devs complaining that they wanted to work 18 hour days but management just wouldn't allow it.

What are you guys ON, man?
 
Yes, the big, widely discussed problem in the games industry is that during crunch time, there just isn't enough overtime available for everyone who wants it! You read so many complaints about that, just legions of devs complaining that they wanted to work 18 hour days but management just wouldn't allow it.

What are you guys ON, man?

Who said anything about 18 hour days? You did. I'm saying let people volunteer for overtime. And if they don't want it, don't punish them for working a normal work week. How is that even controversial?
 
Who said anything about 18 hour days? You did. I'm saying let people volunteer for overtime. And if they don't want it, don't punish them for working a normal work week. How is that even controversial?

What is the topic under discussion here? Is it the pressing need for more overtime in the games industry or the exact opposite of that? Are you from opposite world or something?
 
I'd rather they have teams come back to the office full-time than crunching hard. It's obvious from all the Covid delays and buggy launches that remote work has been a negative with something as collaborative and creative as game development.
 
I voted no but I don't think crunches ever went away especially with AAA games. Sometimes the whole team needs to put in more hours to get a project over the finish line.

Seems more like a tech industry thing more than anything.
It needs to be out of passion wanting finish the game instead of being force to......forced crunch is not good for both the game and devs health.

I'm pretty sure team behind Expedition 33 worked their ass off to make that game and their worked paid off and you can easily see their passion when you play the game.
 
What is the topic under discussion here? Is it the pressing need for more overtime in the games industry or the exact opposite of that? Are you from opposite world or something?

The topic of discussion is working overtime at the end of a project. I suggested letting people work overtime if they want to. And you somehow twisted this into 18 hours days.
 
I'd rather they have teams come back to the office full-time than crunching hard. It's obvious from all the Covid delays and buggy launches that remote work has been a negative with something as collaborative and creative as game development.

I remember before Covid and WFH (Pong to January 2020, small period) when there were famously never any delays with videogames. I had never heard of videogame delays before 2020, never happened.
 
The issue is not should crunch culture sleeping in the office BS continue or come back, it's that devs all of a sudden think they are entitled to super lenient conditions and shouldn't work OT at all.

You're in an industry with hard dates. You have to, at times, push for that.

I have been in the industry and it's friggin chaotic at times. That's just part of it.

Rockstar, as I have alluded to with much criticism, is not the Rockstar of the past. This Rockstar is... Interesting, and I hope people keep that in mind when GTA 6 releases.
 
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Outside of getting the game ready earlier thers no real benefit for gamers to support crunch. There will always be some crunch especially if you are behind a deadline, but long periods of crunch leads to health issues, burnout and at the end a worse product. Thers too many games coming out all the time, waiting for a game to be ready when its ready is not a problem for me.
 
The topic of discussion is working overtime at the end of a project. I suggested letting people work overtime if they want to. And you somehow twisted this into 18 hours days.

The topic of the thread is crunch culture, i.e. expected or compulsory large-scale, long-lasting overtime.

What do people in the industry complain about? The above or the sad, tragic lack of the opportunity to work overtime?
 
Nah.

Gaming isn't that serious of a thing that it should totally fuck with peoples lives. Delays aren't a big deal.

Read a book.

Watch a show.

Build a model.

Fucking relax.
 
No I think games just need a smaller scope. All these bloated 100 hour messes take 6-7 years to make and are underwhelming at best.

Bring back focused games.
 
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The topic of the thread is crunch culture, i.e. expected or compulsory large-scale, long-lasting overtime.

What do people in the industry complain about? The above or the sad, tragic lack of the opportunity to work overtime?

Ok? I never advocated for that, genius. I said make it voluntary. You are having a meltdown at a strawman that doesn't exist.
 
Crazy hours is already standard fare in video game development right now. OP talks about ratcheting this up even further. Say, 16 hour work days, 7 days a week. Air mattresses in the office so staff are encouraged to sleep over.

Standard fare in plenty of industries. I'm not advocating it, but it happens.
 
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No, just manage projects and resources better and stop pissing money up the wall with constant revisions.and focus testing.

Expedition 33 was made by about 30 people in five years. The exact same project run out of a major modern studio would take two hundred people 7-10 years and following multiple reboots would probably stagger out of the gate to a mid-seventies metacritic and a muted audience reception.

Studios need to be working smarter, not harder
 
Crunch doesn't go far enough. Indentured servitude is where we need to go. That and all maximum security prisons should become AAA game studios where inmates can be let out early if they release a game over a 90 Metascore.
 
Crunch probably isn't driven by impatient gamers as much as it is driven by the need for the company making the game to begin earning revenue on the investment that's been made. That's always why I had to do it when I worked for software companies. Can't always afford to stay in development indefinitely.

That said, I always hated doing it and I don't want people to have to do it to make my toys.
 
Who said anything about 18 hour days? You did. I'm saying let people volunteer for overtime. And if they don't want it, don't punish them for working a normal work week. How is that even controversial?
Because in the US salaried employees don't get paid for overtime.
Think office space "err I think I'm going to need you to go ahead and come in Saturday"
 
Expedition 33 was made by about 30 people in five years. The exact same project run out of a major modern studio would take two hundred people 7-10 years and following multiple reboots would probably stagger out of the gate to a mid-seventies metacritic and a muted audience reception.
say it louder for the AAA execs in the back
 
I remember before Covid and WFH (Pong to January 2020, small period) when there were famously never any delays with videogames. I had never heard of videogame delays before 2020, never happened.

Do you think remote work has been a positive or negative to development timelines?
 
100%.

But not because of the delays. Instead, crunch reduces budgets if we presume most devs work on salary and not hourly.
 
Bro your videogames are not important enough to have it literally ruin people's lives.

This shouldn't even be up for debate.
 
Bro your videogames are not important enough to have it literally ruin people's lives.

This shouldn't even be up for debate.
I know bro.
Gaming crunch is literal Gulags.
 
Yes 60 hour work week minimum we need dedication to make excellence. I work 100 hour work weeks all the time. Read the Masters of Doom book if you want to know what it takes.
 
Crunch culture is inherently bad, and it churns out bad, soulless, buggy games. I do believe some truly special games will involve periods of crunch, whether it's out of passion or desperation - but it should not be the norm of business and it is not required to make a truly great game.

In fact, there is such a deep history of excellent games now, and so many of them are available on modern platforms (and cheap). As a gamer, I can be patient and wait until a game is finished. I know the business needs to survive and will implement time and cost constraints, but I'd rather them go with a realistic conservative budget and spend time polishing toward the end. Nintendo does this, and there's no reason why others can't adopt the same approach. It works.
 
You mean HARD WORK that professionals ceos doctors lawyers athletes etc ALL do to be successful?
 
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Are you ready for the crunch?

GIF by Cap’n Crunch
 
More than anything, companies would like to rely less on employees and more on automation. With AI developing so quickly, it is all but certain that many of the jobs in the traditional production of video games will cease to exist. There will be less crunch and less jobs.
 
More than anything, companies would like to rely less on employees and more on automation. With AI developing so quickly, it is all but certain that many of the jobs in the traditional production of video games will cease to exist. There will be less crunch and less jobs.
I agree. This is going to happen quicker than people think.
 
No, I don't think so. It sounds miserable, from what I've heard. Videogames aren't that important. Take your time. No need to make your crew miserable, just to push out product.
 
More than anything, companies would like to rely less on employees and more on automation. With AI developing so quickly, it is all but certain that many of the jobs in the traditional production of video games will cease to exist. There will be less crunch and less jobs.
Oh, how the tables have turned.

Spider Man Lol GIF
 
These publishers don't want to pay for over time or cap paid OT. They expect pressure/culture crunch to be free. Easy for the guy sitting in his chair to ask for more crunch. They abuse the hell out of contractors with poor OT or none.

The threat of layoffs across the industry, scares people into crunch to keep their jobs, without fair pay. Think about that.
 
As a tester I did my share of crunch from 2005 to about 2013.
Some of us even wore it as a badge of honor.
Truth is, when you're hallucinating spiders out the corner of your eyes and going on smoke breaks every 30 minutes you're not being very productive 😁

While I was younger and the camaraderie was fun I don't miss it at all.
 
First bring back the "lets make the best game we can" culture and the "lets have the best devs we can" culture ... without 300 woke checkpoints to worry about and shitty employees hired by DEI directives and not merit.... until then crunch time dosent matter.
 
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