Would you bring back 'crunch culture' in gaming to eliminate delays?
- Thread starter Plies
- Start date
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I've been working 6 days a week nearly my entire adult life. I would say don't make it mandatory, but let people volunteer for overtime. I think many many people would want it.
Yes, the big, widely discussed problem in the games industry is that during crunch time, there just isn't enough overtime available for everyone who wants it! You read so many complaints about that, just legions of devs complaining that they wanted to work 18 hour days but management just wouldn't allow it.
What are you guys ON, man?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Who said anything about 18 hour days? You did. I'm saying let people volunteer for overtime. And if they don't want it, don't punish them for working a normal work week. How is that even controversial?
What is the topic under discussion here? Is it the pressing need for more overtime in the games industry or the exact opposite of that? Are you from opposite world or something?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
It needs to be out of passion wanting finish the game instead of being force to......forced crunch is not good for both the game and devs health.
I'm pretty sure team behind Expedition 33 worked their ass off to make that game and their worked paid off and you can easily see their passion when you play the game.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Ehh, they want to be there as much as I want to play games.
I think it's better they leave for the night if it's not a passion project of a 20 year old kid.
I think it's better they leave for the night if it's not a passion project of a 20 year old kid.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
The topic of discussion is working overtime at the end of a project. I suggested letting people work overtime if they want to. And you somehow twisted this into 18 hours days.
I remember before Covid and WFH (Pong to January 2020, small period) when there were famously never any delays with videogames. I had never heard of videogame delays before 2020, never happened.
0neAnd0nly
Member
The issue is not should crunch culture sleeping in the office BS continue or come back, it's that devs all of a sudden think they are entitled to super lenient conditions and shouldn't work OT at all.
You're in an industry with hard dates. You have to, at times, push for that.
I have been in the industry and it's friggin chaotic at times. That's just part of it.
Rockstar, as I have alluded to with much criticism, is not the Rockstar of the past. This Rockstar is... Interesting, and I hope people keep that in mind when GTA 6 releases.
You're in an industry with hard dates. You have to, at times, push for that.
I have been in the industry and it's friggin chaotic at times. That's just part of it.
Rockstar, as I have alluded to with much criticism, is not the Rockstar of the past. This Rockstar is... Interesting, and I hope people keep that in mind when GTA 6 releases.
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Aenima
Member
Outside of getting the game ready earlier thers no real benefit for gamers to support crunch. There will always be some crunch especially if you are behind a deadline, but long periods of crunch leads to health issues, burnout and at the end a worse product. Thers too many games coming out all the time, waiting for a game to be ready when its ready is not a problem for me.
The topic of the thread is crunch culture, i.e. expected or compulsory large-scale, long-lasting overtime.
What do people in the industry complain about? The above or the sad, tragic lack of the opportunity to work overtime?
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Nah.
Gaming isn't that serious of a thing that it should totally fuck with peoples lives. Delays aren't a big deal.
Read a book.
Watch a show.
Build a model.
Fucking relax.
Gaming isn't that serious of a thing that it should totally fuck with peoples lives. Delays aren't a big deal.
Read a book.
Watch a show.
Build a model.
Fucking relax.
Sleepwalker
Member
No I think games just need a smaller scope. All these bloated 100 hour messes take 6-7 years to make and are underwhelming at best.
Bring back focused games.
Bring back focused games.
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Ok? I never advocated for that, genius. I said make it voluntary. You are having a meltdown at a strawman that doesn't exist.
Topher
Identifies as young
Standard fare in plenty of industries. I'm not advocating it, but it happens.
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BbMajor7th
Member
No, just manage projects and resources better and stop pissing money up the wall with constant revisions.and focus testing.
Expedition 33 was made by about 30 people in five years. The exact same project run out of a major modern studio would take two hundred people 7-10 years and following multiple reboots would probably stagger out of the gate to a mid-seventies metacritic and a muted audience reception.
Studios need to be working smarter, not harder
Expedition 33 was made by about 30 people in five years. The exact same project run out of a major modern studio would take two hundred people 7-10 years and following multiple reboots would probably stagger out of the gate to a mid-seventies metacritic and a muted audience reception.
Studios need to be working smarter, not harder
Men_in_Boxes
Banned
Crunch doesn't go far enough. Indentured servitude is where we need to go. That and all maximum security prisons should become AAA game studios where inmates can be let out early if they release a game over a 90 Metascore.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Crunch probably isn't driven by impatient gamers as much as it is driven by the need for the company making the game to begin earning revenue on the investment that's been made. That's always why I had to do it when I worked for software companies. Can't always afford to stay in development indefinitely.
That said, I always hated doing it and I don't want people to have to do it to make my toys.
That said, I always hated doing it and I don't want people to have to do it to make my toys.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Because in the US salaried employees don't get paid for overtime.
Think office space "err I think I'm going to need you to go ahead and come in Saturday"
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
say it louder for the AAA execs in the back
ShadyAcshuns
Gold Member
No. Just stop making crap games and focus on what people want instead.
Jaybe
Member
Do you think remote work has been a positive or negative to development timelines?
ByWatterson
Member
100%.
But not because of the delays. Instead, crunch reduces budgets if we presume most devs work on salary and not hourly.
But not because of the delays. Instead, crunch reduces budgets if we presume most devs work on salary and not hourly.
Topher
Identifies as young
Happened all the time. Pretty much every year during the PS4 generation had game delays.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
A lot of problems in the world. This isn't one keeping me up at night.
Plies
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
I know bro.
Gaming crunch is literal Gulags.
SJRB
Gold Member
I heard that when you're under the EA umbrella they will deport you and your entire family to a salt mine if you miss your deadline.
MagusMajul
Member
Yes 60 hour work week minimum we need dedication to make excellence. I work 100 hour work weeks all the time. Read the Masters of Doom book if you want to know what it takes.
LavitzSlambert
Member
Crunch culture is inherently bad, and it churns out bad, soulless, buggy games. I do believe some truly special games will involve periods of crunch, whether it's out of passion or desperation - but it should not be the norm of business and it is not required to make a truly great game.
In fact, there is such a deep history of excellent games now, and so many of them are available on modern platforms (and cheap). As a gamer, I can be patient and wait until a game is finished. I know the business needs to survive and will implement time and cost constraints, but I'd rather them go with a realistic conservative budget and spend time polishing toward the end. Nintendo does this, and there's no reason why others can't adopt the same approach. It works.
In fact, there is such a deep history of excellent games now, and so many of them are available on modern platforms (and cheap). As a gamer, I can be patient and wait until a game is finished. I know the business needs to survive and will implement time and cost constraints, but I'd rather them go with a realistic conservative budget and spend time polishing toward the end. Nintendo does this, and there's no reason why others can't adopt the same approach. It works.
Plies
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Pasta la Vista
Member
More than anything, companies would like to rely less on employees and more on automation. With AI developing so quickly, it is all but certain that many of the jobs in the traditional production of video games will cease to exist. There will be less crunch and less jobs.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I agree. This is going to happen quicker than people think.
Plies
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
These publishers don't want to pay for over time or cap paid OT. They expect pressure/culture crunch to be free. Easy for the guy sitting in his chair to ask for more crunch. They abuse the hell out of contractors with poor OT or none.
The threat of layoffs across the industry, scares people into crunch to keep their jobs, without fair pay. Think about that.
The threat of layoffs across the industry, scares people into crunch to keep their jobs, without fair pay. Think about that.
John Marston
GAF's very own treasure goblin
As a tester I did my share of crunch from 2005 to about 2013.
Some of us even wore it as a badge of honor.
Truth is, when you're hallucinating spiders out the corner of your eyes and going on smoke breaks every 30 minutes you're not being very productive
While I was younger and the camaraderie was fun I don't miss it at all.
Some of us even wore it as a badge of honor.
Truth is, when you're hallucinating spiders out the corner of your eyes and going on smoke breaks every 30 minutes you're not being very productive
While I was younger and the camaraderie was fun I don't miss it at all.
yet_another_alt
Member
Ultimately, it's not my problem. Nearly everyone works harder once a deadline looms.
Bernardougf
Member
First bring back the "lets make the best game we can" culture and the "lets have the best devs we can" culture ... without 300 woke checkpoints to worry about and shitty employees hired by DEI directives and not merit.... until then crunch time dosent matter.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Only in China building our hardware, amirite?
