The Call of Duty franchise pushed both Xbox and Playstation. And it just gained momentum from MW onward. Killzon'e sales are nowhere close. Killzone did well, and I liked it way better than CoD, but it wasn't more of a system seller than any of Sony's other big hitters.
Sony has a lot of featured games at E3, I was hyped after E3 2007, but again, it didn't have the same broad appeal that CoD did. I don't care if you work in the industry, that doesn't make you an expert or correct on this topic. The truth is that looking at the objective sales data of Killzone 2 vs. Uncharted 2 vs God of War 3 vs TLOU, etc and it's pretty clear your case is weak.
If Killzone were a bigger system seller, they would not have focused on Horizon instead. Horizon sold far more, and you cannot quantify a "system seller" in any meaningful way other than the amount of games it sells.
KZ2 sales were nearly equal to CoD4: MW. Both slightly above 3 million. Xbox absolutely pushed CoD back then, far more than PlayStation.
Working in the industry doesn't make me an expert, that is absolutely fair - but I do think I gained valuable insight that many others may not see or hear outside of it.
Horizon was focused on because GG has become a far more prominent studio that sent a former employee well up the ranks for PlayStation studios, was a unique concept, and a new IP.
Killzone was trusted to launch their most hyped console, the ps4 and has appeared on 3 consoles and 1 handheld.
Killzone was SOLELY abandoned because of PlayStation moving to NA HQ, and becoming much for involved in American social politics skewing less into FPS glorification and more into diverse female led non-shooters (Horizon).
Even if we disagree, I am not sure how you constantly base a "system seller" off game sales, purely.
A system with a user base of 10 million will sell more games than one with 5 million. Period.
A game with a T rating, will usually outsell a M rating.
That doesn't mean that, with video games, a title doesn't hype into system sales. Maybe that is where our difference of opinion falls.
KZ2 sent waves into the industry still talked about 5 years later when I was in it myself. It pushed the PlayStation ahead in a huge time of uncertainty.
Horizon has not had the same reach. People buy the PS5, regardless of Horizon. Not because of. It happens to be a great title as well, which is cool - but it doesn't pull the weight many other PS titles do (like TLOU) with "hype" and generating sales.
You accused people of getting "angered" and taking it personally. Those claims don't hold weight whatsoever.
There's a reason why Horizon appeared in bundles on both PS4 and PS5, and that's because they attract gamers, and Sony wouldn't put it on a console unless they thought it was a selling point.
If you using Killzone 2 as the main reason why the PS3 was saved, then it doesn't matter how many meetings you have been in because the data doesn't back up your claims at all.
I can't ignore data and go based on my personal feelings. It takes a lot of gamers to sell 8 million copies on a single platform, and there are triple A titles that don't sell nearly that much on multiple platforms.
And yes, Madden is a system seller because there are gamers who are Football fans. If Madden was exclusive to a platform then that would be a huge selling point. This is mainly in the US because there are not many football fans in other markets.
Sales are a good sign of a system seller because of how many copies are sold and that it likely attracted more gamers to a platform that sold way less copies. Data will often outweigh how someone personally feels about a game.
When someone accuses me of having low intelligence and not arguing the point, yes I will take it personal. It's what makes people talk about the toxic / fanboy segment of gaming. Discuss and argue the point, don't attack the person. I don't like when it happens - not that I am innocent 100% of the time, I just think it takes things to a slightly different level.
Horizon being in a PS5 bundle is the reason it sold? Or was it just because the ps5 was selling out in minutes no matter what the game packaged in it was?
I bought the ps5 bundle with Horizon, and it had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the game itself. It was readily accessible for me to buy. Actually I could get that particular bundle for almost a month, easy, locally.
I haven't once said how I personally felt about KZ2, you keep bringing that up.
Simple understanding of the industry will tell you that a console that has immense sales and hype will generate higher title sales than a system with a small user base (such as the ps3).
Sales of a title don't really matter, overall sales are NOT exclusively indicative of being a "system seller". Most "system sellers" sell systems prior to launch and right near it. That's why they do shows like E3, to generate hype (at least, that is what e3 turned into in the 2000s).
Madden isn't a system seller, IMO, because you can buy it on any console. I believe, and most of my former colleagues would say the same, exclusive content is largely what sells systems. It's why Nintendo moves stuff at an alarmingly good pace in general, relying almost solely on first party sales.
Just an FYI, the ps3 at Killzone launch barely cracked having 15 million TOTAL users (a lot of those sales were in places like Japan where FPS didn't reign Supreme like it did here). For it to have sold 8 million, it would have needed over a 50% sale rate.
Horizon is on a console that has been permanently sold out for its first 2 years and still has 25 million users. 8 million is less than a 3rd attachment, with a more buyable rating of teen.
Just putting that in perspective.
Obviously no minds will be changed here, but I am very confident in what I have stated and what the general sentiment was around the time…
Have a great night, either way. Let's try not to derail further or take things personal, if at all possible.
