This post is the closest thing to a Youtube comment I've seen in a couple pages at least. Have you played the game?
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WOW OMG: Steam is refunding No Man's Sky even if you played more then 2 hours
- Thread starter Tony Iron Man Stark
- Start date
This post is the closest thing to a Youtube comment I've seen in a couple pages at least. Have you played the game?
Everything you've just said has been stated both better and worse by other posters several times over in this thread. Not to mention extensively responded to. I suggest you take the time to read it.
Everyone loved Sean talking and talking and talking pre-release, it just happened that he was talking bollocks.
If a dev can't talk without talking bollocks, then yes they should stop. I've seen games with far more realistic and grounded pre-release expectations set by 'PR people'. If Sean had said nothing during development and the pre-release material of the game had all been outsourced to Sony I'd argue they'd be in a better position right now.
FloatingDivider
Member
Holy shit, people are really going to extraordinary lengths to defend a dishonest verified liar. I'm glad you don't want any rights as a consumer of goods but we do...
We are indicating that this is a grand deception because it is. Maybe it wasn't planned, who knows, but that's surely what came out of it. But the truth is out there and it's plain as day to see and you're being willfully ignorant by claiming people should have whipped out their magic bullshitometer and predicted that No Man's Sky would be missing more features than it actually has
If your pre-release footage is inaccurate to this extent and 90% of the features you advertised are missing you're damn well required to inform consumers. Instead what they did was go out on twitter telling you not to spoil the game for yourself making sure you couldn't see how bland and featureless the final product was. Then they lied about the atlas patch adding a significant amount of content to make it seem like the game wasn't a barren featureless waste of 60.
I've read them. So?
They came first for the people who used mod chips to import games, and I remained silent because I wasn't an importer. And then they came for the OtherOS functionality, and I didn't speak up because I didn't install Linux on consoles. Then they came for the people who wanted refunds on digital content, and I didn't speak up because I don't make purchases without adequate research. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak out for me.
FloatingDivider
Member
How is this a bad thing? I don't want to hear about a feature unless they're 100% sure they can implement it. In fact if devs stopped talking about shit they haven't implemented this entire fiasco wouldn't have happened. I don't want them to sell me their dev notes, I want you to sell me their actual game. If I wanted dev notes I'd go buy some early access shit.
10/10
okay.... so what did you mean by:
and:
Like what does that actually mean? What is a first class citizen? and how does a video game go to hell?
Sony and Steam are giving refunds for good reason.
They know they are both walking on a legal mine field and do not want any actions brought against them from the large number of angry consumers.
It is a fact this game was sold with false claims which is against consumer law in the vast majority of countries.
It is also a fact the game has countless crashes which which render the game not working in a state the average person would find reasonable.
Either of this scenarios entitles the consumer to a refund in most countries with strong consumer protection laws. It doesn't matter if you played for 1 hour or 1000 hours.It is fucking irrelevant.
Thus these companies are providing refunds as they are legally required to.
People arguing against this have something wrong with their thought processes.
They know they are both walking on a legal mine field and do not want any actions brought against them from the large number of angry consumers.
It is a fact this game was sold with false claims which is against consumer law in the vast majority of countries.
It is also a fact the game has countless crashes which which render the game not working in a state the average person would find reasonable.
Either of this scenarios entitles the consumer to a refund in most countries with strong consumer protection laws. It doesn't matter if you played for 1 hour or 1000 hours.It is fucking irrelevant.
Thus these companies are providing refunds as they are legally required to.
People arguing against this have something wrong with their thought processes.
Pretty much the majority of people screaming "Criminal!" are people like you and people that agree with you and are making parody comments.
You don't get to whine about shitposting while arguing with a strawman.
Daffy Duck
Member
So if you see the original launch trailer and go on a gameplay blackout to not spoil the game and then pick it up release day to find it's not what you thought it was, that's your problem? How is that even right.
sazzy
Member
Business transactions and accounts take a while to finalize. Its not as if you buy a game on Steam, and the money gets deposited into Sean's bank account the next day. It would take at least a couple of weeks after the end of the month.
I'm not confusing anything, I was replying to a comment that was talking about Amazon's customer service and used that to talk about digital storefronts. At no point did I mention developer interests/consequences.
The effect on the developer of mass refund requests is a different issue, and while it might be devastating for them (I think reputation and loss of future sales are the most severe damage right now) I don't think you can seperate it from the promises made beforehand and the bugs encountered afterwards. Even then, I doubt more than a small minority are actually refunding it. The internet is an echo chamber.
Devs should feel free to talk about their games if they want to, even if it changes over time, but if you've been talking about a feature as big as multiplayer that then doesn't make it in on a national TV show, probably best to mention it before launch. That honesty of what exactly is shipping is important, that's why early access is a smoother ride. It would have been easy to clear up any confusion over exactly how players interact with a press release.
thomas has a game on steam
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Well, some of us are still enjoying what they delivered although it did not meet all the hype it game media and game makers created for it (at least not yet). I keep seeing both in the game and in the OT some kickass things and the idea of the game maker behind this being devastated by mass refunds of people who spent perhaps lots of hours on it seems a bit excessive.
It doesn't really matter. 700k people aren't going to refund it. He's still going to be a very rich man, no matter the refunds.
You can do that, sure, but then you can't say that the game didn't live up to expectations. If you are consciously depriving yourself of information and making a blind purchase, not even taking a day after release to look at footage, there is no merit to complaining that the game didn't deliver on whatever game you hand in your mind that you personally wanted it to be.
Feel free to have a gander.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/n_gamer/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=19359171
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=19359201
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=19359210
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=19359222
I'm happy loads of people are enjoying it, you aren't alone, im sure the majority of players are happy with it or at least don't care about internet hubbub. Personally I think if you run into game-crippling bugs and can't finish the game after 50 hours you absolutely deserve a refund. I know I did after PS3 Skyrim, and went back and rebought it and all the expansions later on. If you play and enjoy it, and are just using the drama to get your money back because you can, yeah, that's dishonest. They aren't mutually exclusive positions, and I'm surprised when I've seen posters (and Shahid) act as if they are. The former is much easier to prove than the latter though.
Financially, NMS will still be a massive success for Hello Games, 'devastating' is perhaps too severe a description. However, it won't be anywhere near as big a success as it could have been due to the tail dropping quickly for multiple reasons, and the damage to their reputation is what will follow them the most.
As an aside, it's not just refunds that will affect the financial income of this specific game- it's also clearly a game being traded in quickly and in large numbers, which is surprising for a title billed as having near endless amounts of exploration.
Tranqueris
Banned
Geez, that Sean Murray message thread, you can start to see the love fest slowly turning on him about barely a day later.
Also I think the bullying thing is just about the weirdest thing I've seen in relation to this, if calling Sean Murray out for this game is bullying then everyone owes Randy Pitchford an apology for all the bullying he had to endure after he put out Aliens: Colonial Marines. Poor Randy, he's just so enthusiastic and genuine :/
Anyway I'm glad people are still (?) getting refunds from Sony, even if Steam is trying to hide behind their 2 hour policy. Personally, I think the best move forward for Hello Games at this point would be to pull an Arkham Knight and just give a refund to anyone who asks for one and then try to earn back their trust later down the road with patches and extra features. Sure, the game probably isn't as broken as Arkham Knight, but it sure as hell isn't the game that was promised.
Also I think the bullying thing is just about the weirdest thing I've seen in relation to this, if calling Sean Murray out for this game is bullying then everyone owes Randy Pitchford an apology for all the bullying he had to endure after he put out Aliens: Colonial Marines. Poor Randy, he's just so enthusiastic and genuine :/
Anyway I'm glad people are still (?) getting refunds from Sony, even if Steam is trying to hide behind their 2 hour policy. Personally, I think the best move forward for Hello Games at this point would be to pull an Arkham Knight and just give a refund to anyone who asks for one and then try to earn back their trust later down the road with patches and extra features. Sure, the game probably isn't as broken as Arkham Knight, but it sure as hell isn't the game that was promised.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
why is it that people like to bring the latter stuff in this thread when we have seen in this thread that the people asking for refunds here are having problems?
why? what is the point? again, I have been observing that so many people keep bringing up those "evil, immoral people" even though you don't see it here
on Ps4 the game is working perfectly since the very early patches.
I still dont know what all the fuss is about
I don't think the OP's experience, and their error logs, count as 'working perfectly', nor do the various other technical errors reported in this thread and elsewhere.
GeNoMe
Member
I just came back from the retailer I purchased my copy from. Returned it after 5 hours worth of playtime. And I don't regret a thing.
The false advertisement, the riddled bugs, and the fear of the game ruining my PS4's save games (read this on multiple sites). Made the decision to have a refund an easy one.
What a shit show this whole ordeal has become, I was genuinely surprised said retailer even accepted the game back. Even though their policy states they do not refund used software.
The false advertisement, the riddled bugs, and the fear of the game ruining my PS4's save games (read this on multiple sites). Made the decision to have a refund an easy one.
What a shit show this whole ordeal has become, I was genuinely surprised said retailer even accepted the game back. Even though their policy states they do not refund used software.
Chobel
Member
"1st class citizen" is about indies that come out late to XB1 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-ones-parity-clause-meant-to-make-owners-feel-/1100-6422886/.
In other words, Nags is accusing etta of shitting on the game because it's not on XB1, so they're both in the same boat.
They are trying to fix it isn't good enough. It should be 'fixed' at release. Even now they are refusing to admit they overpromised and continue to lie about features the game just doesn't have. They have no shame.
The company deserves to go under, and Sean Murray deserves to go bankrupt, although there's no fear of that happening because of how much money they have made from this game's high sales figures. Murray will walk away from this an extremely wealthy man.
Sleight of Jam
Banned
Just because you're not having problems doesn't mean others aren't. And tbh mine only crashed 3/4 times in my 10ish hours I played. But I still walked into my local store and asked for a refund because this isn't the product I was sold on.
I never got anywhere near that many errors in fairness. Mine crashed about 3-4 times before the first patch. Since then its never once crashed
The error logs on page one of this thread were all pre-patch on the same day 13th Aug from what I can tell
You initially said that you didn't see what all the fuss was about. It's snowballed since the OP as, even though your experience with it sounds cool, it clearly hasn't been for plenty of others.
I understand not wanting to read through a 50+ page thread, but just because a game works for you doesn't mean that others haven't had legitimate problems with it both pre- and post-patch.
Sora the Cat
Member
I don't get it, it can't be a blind purchase if the person in that case watched the E3 trailer, that trailer was supposed to be real time gameplay with no scripts, the game could only get better from that point, that person would have every right to complain and ask for a refund. They are still using that trailer as promo in the store as we write this. The user you are quoting is still right.
that first page, damn haha
"What a fantastic team. They did everything they said. They literally came through on most if not all."
God Dam!
Nobody is saying developers shouldn't take risks, not even tacitly. People are saying that you shouldn't say those risks were successful, then have that turn out not to be the case in the finished product. Hello Games didn't say "we hope to have multiplayer, but wait and see", and they wouldn't face such harsh criticism if they had said that. They also had an opportunity to clarify the previously promised features were no longer in the game (assuming that they weren't contractually obligated to keep up the lie, and even if they were that would be a contract they voluntarily signed).
And I'm not sure what you mean by "devs stop taking risks on things [...] they know vocal parts of their audience may not like". Should they lie if they know that vocal parts of their audience won't like the truth?
There are no signs that this will become a trend. It's just a case of gamers exercising their consumer rights on a misleadingly advertised game with technical issues.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Double post.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
You can virtually see the moment I fell for the hype again. Like I said then, Fuck you GAF!
I got a refund for this real quick a week or so later. This game has definitely impacted my buying routine, and I'm never buying a game day one, or day 150. I'll wait till they're $20 or less.
Few people on the first page got a refund, sad
Edit: chill guys, misunderstanding, sad for the customers who trusted them
In other words you're invoking the slippery slope fallacy.
Sure some people will try to abuse the system but Valve like any store that can keep track of customers knows when to nip the abuse in the bud. Everyone else, the majority, don't give a shit as long as they are catered to when they've been given a clearly faulty product.
BouncyFrag
Member
I'm glad I had the foresight to see how things would play out and knew better than to allow my self to get caught up with all this NMS hype nonsense.
No I didn't.
lmao, cliché confirmed
Few people on the first page got a refund, sad
So you never brought an electronic that was working fine until the 29th day and didn't invoke your refund?
If no to the first and yes to the second, that's pathetic.
TheSpoiler
Member
Few people on the first page got a refund, sad
Real sad how my favorite developer is getting swindled by these monsters
Really wish they wouldn't abuse their consumer powers and just keep a buggy, misadvertised title
Sean sacrificed so much for us, the least we could do is give him money
The Cartographer
Member
Holy shit at the cult/defense force of Murray and Hello Games still existing.
Transistor
Banned
It's funny. When the game released and was only a shell of what was promised, I was quick to defend HG. I understood that a development project of this scale means you might not get everything g out that was promised.
But then I played more and realized how broken the game is. Crash after crash after crash. Then my save (and the backup one) got corrupted and I had to completely start over.
That's when I stopped defending them, because how can people defend something that is actually broken.
Some people aren't in this thread to defend Hello Games.
They feel that they are principled honorable people and that everyone else should follow their own moral standards. They believe that after 20+ hours that means you enjoyed the purchase and should accept the fact that you got a product that you spent a long time with.
To ask for a refund is thievery to them after that point.
The problem with these people is that they are elitists who pretty much don't care to pay attention to what made many of them ask for a refund. They don't care to learn that people who enjoyed the game can't enjoy it anymore because after some point it frequently crashes making progress extremely tedious and others spent so much time getting used to the game without really learning beforehand all the stuff they expected wasn't in the game.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
I don't doubt that there are objectively things that Hello Games said that in no way can be considered true when looking at the final product. But I also see a lot of subjective things on the Reddit list that keeps getting passed around. Like "they said there would be significant interaction with the different alien factions, and this interaction is not significant." When stuff like that gets passed around as "evidence" of a company lying, it makes me think that at least a part of this outrage is based on subjective opinion of the final product rather than objectively measurable things like performance issues or factually untrue advertising.
And I'm never going to be comfortable with customers getting a refund based on their subjective like or dislike of a final product. Game developers should feel completely free to put stuff in their game with the intention of making the audience uncomfortable, disappointed, or even mad. The example I keep going back to in my head is Metal Gear Solid 2. Kojima deliberately mislead everyone by hiding the fact that you play as Raiden when he knew everyone would want to play as Snake, and all of the pre-release marketing was focused on Snake. It disappointed me too at the time, but looking back it makes the game much more interesting to think about now. I'd like to preserve that ability to subvert expectation.