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[Chucker]

So, I had the rudest rep last night who ended the chat after giving me a non answer about why I was not eligible for a refund. When I asked what product had been refunded, he said a piece of final fantasy content (Likely my free beta), and closed the chat right away.

I try to chat today to discuss that and am greeted with:

We are unable to process your Chat request at this time. You can tweet support questions to @AskPlayStation or contact us by phone at 800-345-7669. Thank you!


Did he block me? Is that a thing?

 

[Stone Ocean]

This is my first post in this thread, but just wanted to say that Ive always favoured buyer beware over consumer rights. I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent). The market should correct this. The press has the right to give unfair negative reviews. Word of mouth will spread, especially in a world with internet. Companies that do this should fail.

Holy

Fucking

Shit

Do you even understand why consumer laws exist? Consumers are in a disadvantageous position by default and you want them to simply deal with it while giving free reign to sellers? Jesus christ, good faith is a fucking two way street, you can't expect consumers to be the only honest ones in a transaction.

 

[Yasumi]

Somehow other gamers didn't have enough game design background to perform the same analysis.

Yeah, I had experience with Spore. I am a computer scientist and was training to be a game designer. I know what procedural generation is. I know the limitations of it, the crazy weird broken shit that it can generate.

I suggest you pick up a sociology textbook and get cracking.

You assume we have all the knowledge we need to have any kind of argument? How naive is that? You need to understand sociology to answer your question. Obviously, one of us hasn't done that. It is not my job to teach you. Go learn on your own time, get your questions answered and then come back.

This is kind of hilarious. You sure are proud of that "education" and how superior it makes you to the rest of us.

 

[Farewell]

This is my first post in this thread, but just wanted to say that Ive always favoured buyer beware over consumer rights. I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent). The market should correct this. The press has the right to give unfair negative reviews. Word of mouth will spread, especially in a world with internet. Companies that do this should fail.

I'm a person who always blames myself. If I bought a shitty product, I should have read more reviews. Why didn't I check the yelp reviews before going to this restaurant? That's on me. I bought Brute Force on day one, and was so mad at myself for not waiting for more reviews to come in.

For the rest of my life, companies are going to lie to me to try and get my money, and I support that! Of course we need consumer rights in terms of safety, etc. But I also like having the choice between a nice $10 stapler, or a shitty $1 stapler from the dollar store.

I'm sorry, but this is just so wrong.

 

[Papacheeks]

Some college level classes in body language and digital forensics helps as well.
If you watch Sean closely enough, there are a few tell signs for when he is lying. If you can't be bothered to watch for those, then you deserve a fucked up product and no refund; buyer beware.

Seriously is this sarcasm I hope to god it is.

 

[sazzy]

Holy

Fucking

Shit

Do you even understand why consumer laws exist? Consumers are in a disadvantageous position by default and you want them to simply deal with it?

I think what he's suggesting is that a company which lies will automatically be left behind in the marketplace due to its malpractices.

The problem is, people are fucking dumb. The average person is fucking dumb, and half of them are dumber than the average. So, we gotta have consumer protection laws.

 

[Jacksinthe]

I am not saying people shouldn't be upset or trying to stifle discussion. Just the vitriol and hatred is going a bit too far.

People are fed up with pie in the sky promises.

For NMS, this stems from utter disappointment. Here we have a fairly new dev embarking on something HUGE. They are the little guys, the guys that are known to fight for gaming and fuck convention and check boxes.

They are given a platform and they abused it. Lied, misrepresented, deceived straight up through release.

The little guys, the indie devs on the side of the game aren't supposed to pull this bullshit. EA, Ubi, etc - those are the guys that actively try to fuck you. People see this as a poison in this industry.

For me? It hits twice. I'm a dev. What does this mean for me and potentisl partnerships? What does it mean for every other dev? You know damn well Sony and every other indie partner are refactoring the way they go about giving assistance to the little guys. Right now I'm counting my lucky stars I have good peeps in my corner and any time Sony wants one of our PS4 builds, all they have to do is ask.

This will poison the well for everyone if this is allowed to go unchecked and unmitigated. Everyone should be upset, even if you LIKE the game, you should still have presence of mind to criticize the ever living shit out of this kind of stuff. It's not rational to hand-wave this kind of behavior in the industry. People are tired of it and rightfully so.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Some college level classes in body language and digital forensics helps as well.
If you watch Sean closely enough, there are a few tell signs for when he is lying. If you can't be bothered to watch for those, then you deserve a fucked up product and no refund; buyer beware.

Funny you mention this (and yes I know it was sarcasm lol), I made a post a couple days ago when my wife who didn't know who Sean was saw this gif up on the screen as she was passing by,

She stopped and immediately said, "Hey, do you see that guy and the way he looks down and to the left when he says 'yes'? Do you know what that means?" I turned to her grinning and was like, "No, love, what does it mean?" She had this proud look on her face and said, "That's body language for someone who is lying!"

I laughed pretty hard.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

This is my first post in this thread, but just wanted to say that Ive always favoured buyer beware over consumer rights. I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent). The market should correct this. The press has the right to give unfair negative reviews. Word of mouth will spread, especially in a world with internet. Companies that do this should fail.

I'm a person who always blames myself. If I bought a shitty product, I should have read more reviews. Why didn't I check the yelp reviews before going to this restaurant? That's on me. I bought Brute Force on day one, and was so mad at myself for not waiting for more reviews to come in.

For the rest of my life, companies are going to lie to me to try and get my money, and I support that! Of course we need consumer rights in terms of safety, etc. But I also like having the choice between a nice $10 stapler, or a shitty $1 stapler from the dollar store.

But...the stapler lies about what it does?

 

[Farewell]

Seriously is this sarcasm I hope to god it is.

Haha i'm pretty sure it is sarcasm.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Some college level classes in body language and digital forensics helps as well.
If you watch Sean closely enough, there are a few tell signs for when he is lying. If you can't be bothered to watch for those, then you deserve a fucked up product and no refund; buyer beware.

I sure hope this is sarcasm. It has got to be sarcasm.

No one someone would suggest a need for college level classes just to know whether or not you're being lied to about a product.

Yes, I am convinced this is sarcasm. This thread has got my head spinning.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I think what he's suggesting is that a company which lies will automatically be left behind in the marketplace due to its malpractices.

The problem is, people are fucking dumb. The average person is fucking dumb, and half of them are dumber than the average. So, we gotta have consumer protection laws.

Nothing stopping companies from being left behind right now due to malpractices, consumer laws don't make people stop distrusting someone. But that doesn't mean you can allow companies to get away with lying and selling faulty products. That's fucking unjust enrichment and it's illegal for a reason.

 

[D4Danger]

This is my first post in this thread, but just wanted to say that Ive always favoured buyer beware over consumer rights. I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent). The market should correct this. The press has the right to give unfair negative reviews. Word of mouth will spread, especially in a world with internet. Companies that do this should fail.

I'm a person who always blames myself. If I bought a shitty product, I should have read more reviews. Why didn't I check the yelp reviews before going to this restaurant? That's on me. I bought Brute Force on day one, and was so mad at myself for not waiting for more reviews to come in.

For the rest of my life, companies are going to lie to me to try and get my money, and I support that! Of course we need consumer rights in terms of safety, etc. But I also like having the choice between a nice $10 stapler, or a shitty $1 stapler from the dollar store.

fucking hell it's like some capitalist cult.

 

[freenudemacusers]

What is someone without an advanced stem degree doing playing a hard scifi space game anyway? Go back to your simpleton candy crush and cod and study more.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Why? Why does my cat seek and destroy towels? He will literally drag a towel from wherever he can reach, sometimes from across the entire house from the dirty clothes to his litter box and put it on top of it. Even if it's clean. SMH.

 

[RawNuts]

I sure hope this is sarcasm. It has got to be sarcasm.

No one someone would suggest a need for college level classes just to know whether or not you're being lied to about a product.

Yes, I am convinced this is sarcasm. This thread has got my head spinning.

It is; it can be hard to tell in the thread though, given some posts. I even got confused on one earlier.

This is kind of hilarious. You sure are proud of that "education" and how superior it makes you to the rest of us.

Not much else to do with sociology.

 

[True Fire]

I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent).

For the rest of my life, companies are going to lie to me to try and get my money, and I support that!

This thread has become procedurally generated insanity.

 

[deadeye]

I saw this thread a few days ago, and again this morning which made me say, "To hell with it. Let me see if I can get a refund for this". I purchased it on Aug 10th, and have about 25+ hours of play time on it. I have access keys 1 & 2, fully upgraded multi-tool, over 8mil in credits, and warped about 20 times, so I've played enough to know that I don't enjoy playing it.

Bought it digitally on PS4, so I contacted PSN Store via chat. Explained to them that the game has issues, especially with crashing constantly, and that it's really not fun to play at all. After some time, they basically said, "All sales are final, but they are going to give me a refund as a one-time Gesture of Goodwill". All I have to do now is just delete the game off my HDD.

So there it is. I may have just gotten lucky, but I now have a $59.99 refund credit added to my PSN account. I took a chance, and I am real happy about. Now, to decide what game should I spend that money on. Any recommendations?

 

[DoomGaze]

I think what he's suggesting is that a company which lies will automatically be left behind in the marketplace due to its malpractices.

The problem is, people are fucking dumb. The average person is fucking dumb, and half of them are dumber than the average. So, we gotta have consumer protection laws.

Sometimes I wish we could just reintroduce lions into society.

Every mall should have four lions somewhere. I think the stupid people problem would go away pretty quickly.

 

[Afrowhitey]

Even if I get three quarters of the way through a book and come upon the final third and realize that pages were printed blank, I would be demanding a refund as well.

The defense force for this game is ridiculous.

Just on principle alone I would encourage people who want to to try and refund this game. It was sold on false advertising. This shit needs to be punished by consumers. Shit like this game is why the industry treats their consumers like crap. Because not only does it often get rewarded, people will actively PR for those doing it.

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

 

[Jeremy]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

How does he look through a game

 

[RawNuts]

This thread has become procedurally generated insanity.

You've thoroughly convinced me that that post is just random words mashed together in such a way as to resemble a real, human-crafted post as some kind of turing test.

Nice try, robot overlords!

 

[freenudemacusers]

Another page, another round of corporate teat suckling. Video game consumers lmao

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

So if you buy a book on Amazon and it shows up with blank pages no refund? Harsh.

 

[Ozium]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

 

[RawNuts]

How does he look through a game

Computer science and sociology apparently.

 

[DryvBy]

Much anger sensed in this thread. Yelling I see.

 

[Froli]

I have no problems at all with other people having fun and enjoying this game. What I don't understand is that others coming to this thread and trying to shame those who refunded with legit reasons and then even state "SEAN MURRAY DELIVERED EVERYTHING HE PROMISED!!! HE DIDN'T LIE AT ALL!!!! YOU ARE ALL BULLIES"

Seriously wtf.

 

[Farewell]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

Yes, next time when i buy a dictionary i will do that, thanks.

 

[eso76]

Personally? I would've liked to have seen Hello Games in court and have a judge determine whether refunds are generally justified, given the state of the game at launch and whether Murray's claims constitute false advertising/representation of the sold product. Perhaps it's time for legal precedent to be made in terms of video game software, what's acceptable on launch day in terms of games working as advertised, and positions on refund policies for physical and digital copies.

Personally, I would just really like to see a model where paying for the actual time you spend with the game is an option.

But anyway, that much is true: like with any other consumer product, false advertising should be punished.
I am not sure I would consider 2 years old interviews with the developer advertising though; game development is kind of its own thing and i think many devs at some point just honestly believed they'd be able to include certain features by launch.
I won't take those as official statements on the status of the game upon release.

Of course nothing keeps devs from coming clear as launch approaches, confirming what made it and what didn't but eh.

The good thing about the whole thing is seeing the preorder culture publishers like to shove down our throat backfire on them.

To be honest, I would still like NMS to somewhat succeed because it represents a first step in an interesting direction. I never believed those guys would be able to hit such ambitious goals on their first try (and predicted most problems the game would end up suffering from on release); I don't think anyone would have.
You don't go from zero to (a proper) NMS in one game and I wouldn't want other devs to be discouraged from trying something similar in the future.

 

[Hektor]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

Whenever you think this thread can't get dumber someone's taking the piss lol

 

[flkraven]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

lol what fucking planet are some of you from?

 

[BRocknRolla]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

What an absolute joke of a post. Disgusting. (To say nothing of the fact that in 95% percent of the transactions you'll encounter in life, this is not actually how it would work.)

Cut everyone's throat, because god knows if you don't, someone will skulk up and cut yours.

 

[Fersis]

fucking hell it's like some capitalist cult.

F R E E M A R K E T B O Y S

 

[Ludens]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

Yeah because if you buy a 2000 pages book you check each page before paying it.

 

[Reineldinho]

I followed this thread during the weekend but not really today. I don't want to dp but has somebody already mention Shahid Kamal Ahmad's tweets?

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Another page, another round of corporate teat suckling. Video game consumers lmao

So if you buy a book on Amazon and it shows up with blank pages no refund? Harsh.

Yes, next time when i buy a dictionary i will do that, thanks.

Whenever you think this thread can't get dumber someone's taking the piss lol

lol what fucking planet are some of you from?

What an absolute joke of a post. Disgusting. (To say nothing of the fact that in 95% percent of the transactions you'll encounter in life, this is not actually how it would work.)

Cut everyone's throat, because god knows if you don't, someone will skulk up and cut yours.

F R E E M A R K E T B O Y S

Yeah because if you buy a 2000 pages book you check each page before paying it.

Just so we are clear here.

"YOU PAYS YOUR MONEY, YOU TAKES YOUR CHOICE!"

 

[eso76]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

I believe this is sarcasm.

 

[tauroxd]

This is my first post in this thread, but just wanted to say that Ive always favoured buyer beware over consumer rights. I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent). The market should correct this. The press has the right to give unfair negative reviews. Word of mouth will spread, especially in a world with internet. Companies that do this should fail.

I'm a person who always blames myself. If I bought a shitty product, I should have read more reviews. Why didn't I check the yelp reviews before going to this restaurant? That's on me. I bought Brute Force on day one, and was so mad at myself for not waiting for more reviews to come in.

For the rest of my life, companies are going to lie to me to try and get my money, and I support that! Of course we need consumer rights in terms of safety, etc. But I also like having the choice between a nice $10 stapler, or a shitty $1 stapler from the dollar store.

NO, NO! That's just wrong... No one should ever lie you because you are going to pay money based on that lie. That is just ridiculous.

 

[True Fire]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

This is sarcasm, right? It's hard to tell after all of the unhinged rants in this thread.

Regardless: I work in marketing; there are hundreds of hoops we have to jump through in the name of consumer protection laws. I find it so ridiculous how video game fans live under a rock so large that they believe laws older than they are need to be changed to defend one broken, critically panned video game.

 

[Leafhopper]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

Like.

Gonna take this as sarcasm.

 

[Cth]

*.. back and to the left ..*

*.. back and to the left ..*

*.. back and to the left ..*

 

[RawNuts]

lol what fucking planet are some of you from?

One of the other 18 quintillion.

I believe this is sarcasm.

Since their post history contradicts the post, I'm also going to assume that. Sarcasm is a nuanced art form here; I like it.

Just so we are clear here.

How did I miss this!?

 

[OldGangWarily]

I emailed GOG support on what their policy is regarding refunds that aren't stemming from technical issues and got a response back with "Do you want cash or store credit?".

O.O

I wonder how many refund requests they're getting?

 

[Tony Iron Man Stark]

I emailed GOG support on what their policy is regarding refunds that aren't stemming from technical issues and got a response back with "Do you want cash or store credit?".

O.O

My man!

I barely see refunds from GOG.

 

[DoomGaze]

Computer science and sociology apparently.

Underrated post. I kek'd hard

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I emailed GOG support on what their policy is regarding refunds that aren't stemming from technical issues and got a response back with "Do you want cash or store credit?".

O.O

I wonder how many refund requests they're getting?

Now that is news. I do believe they weren't accepting them earlier. Glad people kept knocking!

Will spread the word. Hopefully a few more can try and report back.

 

[Z3M0G]

If you bought a book without looking through it and then got home and realized it wasn't printed you get what you deserve. No one is responsible for your purchase other than you. You are at fault. Buyer Beware is just as right as Consumer protection. Both sides will take advantage, just as is being shown here.

Was I able to non-refundable pre-order this book, which would be mailed to me, 6 months before release and having any chance to learn it wasn't printed?

 

[Cookie Dough]

I think No Man's Sky might be game of the year. I mean, I didn't buy it, but I'm getting many hours of enjoyment from the multiple train wrecks it is spawning.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

fucking hell it's like some capitalist cult.

Sorry for upsetting everyone with my post! I was clearly in the wrong, and perhaps naive.

Ideally, I want it so the companies have to bend over backwards to consumers to be successful. Sure we could have all sorts of regulation to prevent companies from lying, but I'd rather live in a world of savy consumers, who control the messaging through the internet (reviews/forums), call out companies on their bullshit, and force them to be consumer friendly in order to be successful.

If we as consumers keep pushing back on these companies (as you are rightly doing with Hello Games), it will force them to smarten up. We should stop buying pre-orders and season passes, and force developers to bring their A-game right out the gate. Developers should be more reluctant to show early footage, and make false promises.

I really feel that this whole situation will make the industry a little bit better, and I truly hope a lot of developers are looking at this, and adjusting their pre-release marketing.

I think what he's suggesting is that a company which lies will automatically be left behind in the marketplace due to its malpractices.

The problem is, people are fucking dumb. The average person is fucking dumb, and half of them are dumber than the average. So, we gotta have consumer protection laws.

Ya, that was what I was suggesting.

 

[DoomGaze]

*.. back and to the left ..*

*.. back and to the left ..*

*.. back and to the left ..*

Wild guess here, but are you quoting that scene in "JFK" where the lawyer keeps drawing attention to how Kennedy's body reacts to the shot?