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[PhoenixDawn]

Rejected again by a steam ticket, got a slightly different response then I did earlier though. It makes it sound like it isn't even worth it for me to try again now, but I probably will anyways. 12 hours played by the way, although probably at least half of it was just having it open while trying to get the damn thing to run properly. The other half was jumping from system to system hoping that at least one of them would show some promise of meeting what was shown in the E3/steam videos.

Thank you for inquiring about a refund for No Man’s Sky. There has been some recent confusion in the community about Steam refunds for this title. Our standard refund policy continues to apply to No Man’s Sky, and playtime continues to matter when refunding the product.

We’ve reviewed your playtime and unfortunately you do not qualify for a refund.

Please review our refund policy here:
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

 

[CrazE]

I think it's a meme, haha.

Ha ha.. that's what I was thinking. I was cracking up when I saw that.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

That's not pre rendered though. the NMS 2014 gameplay trailer. is not pre-rendered.
killzone was pre-rendered this isn't. it's all in engine just heavily scripted to give a taste of what they were shooting for.

I'm all for ripping into no man's sky's misleading advertising but let's not misrepresent what that entailed

It wasnt gameplay then.

 

[Ghandi]

I didnt buy NMS, still I am salty.

I think HG did everything right.
Lets be real for a second: If HG would have been actually honest about their game, they would have sold much lesser quantities.

Spoiler

So, why change?

Molyneux could pull this all the time.The Fallout guy does it, no problem. etcpp
Abusing hype and selling more? It works.
I await their next project within a year.

 

[Mowgli]

Rejected again by a steam ticket, got a slightly different response then I did earlier though. It makes it sound like it isn't even worth it for me to try again now, but I probably will anyways.

got same response I was off by 2hrs which was probably me just eating dinner + getting my son to bed one night. I am going to keep trying as I doubt I will play the game again if the updates aren't really coming.

 

[Narag]

Submitted a second ticket to steam.Really not happy here.

 

[LostDonkey]

Would it be Valve since they own Steam?

All I could find was:

http://www.valvesoftware.com/contact/

Thank you!

 

[Ambient80]

Got an email from Sony last night, refund went through and oddly enough went to my credit card rather than my account. ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Jobbs]

I didnt buy NMS, still I am salty.

I think HG did everything right.
Lets be real for a second: If HG would have been actually honest about their game, they would have sold much lesser quantities.

Spoiler

So, why change?

Molyneux could pull this all the time.The Fallout guy does it, no problem. etcpp
Abusing hype and selling more? It works.
I await their next project within a year.

I wouldn't put moly on the scale of NMS, since moly's games actually, er, had "games" in them, at least sometimes. Fable and Fable 2 were, at least, decent action RPGs.

furthermore I wouldn't put Fallout on the scale of Moly. I enjoy the Bethesda stuff even if it's janky and imperfect, I always end up having fun

NMS is just a big barren nothing. there's no game there.

RIch Evans summed up my feelings in his review when he said "we hardly can even have a review of this game. you just... you go to the planet, shoot the rocks.. go to the next planet.. shoot the rocks.. How do you critique that? how do you have a discussion about that?"

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Steam is denying my refund both via the automated request and support ticket for being over 2 hours (5 hours, restarting and changing settings, not playing). Extremely unfair that some got a refund and others aren't, just because. Interesting that Steam mentions a "standard refund policy" to protect the developer, but there doesn't appear to be a "standard false advertising policy" to protect consumers.

It's too bad this game got so fucked up with hype, blatant lies, and the worst PR ever. If it was released for $20 on Steam Early access it would have been fair for consumers and likely been warmly received. Instead, Hello Games is likely planning another scam paid DLC.

Progress with Sony UK, but not quite there yet:

(this is email number 4)

Hi ,

Thanks for your e-mail.

I am sorry to hear that you are having issues with No Mans Sky.

Can you please explain a bit more in detail what you have not received within the game that was advertised by the game publisher.

Once we have this information, I will be more than happy to pass your details onto the relevant department for a refund for the content.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to call or reply to this email with your reference number Quote xxxxxxx-xxxxxxx and one of our team will be happy to help you.

Thanks,

Axxxxxxxxx
Player Support Specialist
PlayStation Support

Looks like they are relinquishing; I'm certainly not giving up!

Rejected again by a steam ticket, got a slightly different response then I did earlier though. It makes it sound like it isn't even worth it for me to try again now, but I probably will anyways. 12 hours played by the way, although probably at least half of it was just having it open while trying to get the damn thing to run properly. The other half was jumping from system to system hoping that at least one of them would show some promise of meeting what was shown in the E3/steam videos.

Submitted a second ticket to steam.Really not happy here.

got same response I was off by 2hrs which was probably me just eating dinner + getting my son to bed one night. I am going to keep trying as I doubt I will play the game again if the updates aren't really coming.

I always advise to keep trying! Also, if you can't get a refund and/or you are upset with the way HG have handled this mess and want your voice to mean something then take a couple minutes to file a complaint through the Federal Trade Commission. I made a tutorial with all the info they ask for and it's in the OP. If you follow that it should only take a minute or two to complete the form. If you are upset about the situation then this is the best way for something to be done so that hopefully it happens less and less in the future.

 

[Lagamorph]

Finally got a response from GOG.com.

Please let me know if you would prefer to receive a wallet founds that you could use to purchase another game from our catalogue, instead of refund for this order. Cash refunds take a couple of business days to be fully processed on both sides, whereas wallet founds gets assigned immediately.

Looks like they aren't even going to try and troubleshoot the issues. Might be because I already mentioned that I was running latest drivers, latest experimental patches and attached my dxdiag report as requested.
Have requested a cash refund though, it'll pay for my Deus Ex purchase and almost half of my WoW Legion purchase.

If they turn around and say they can only do wallet refunds, I'll be rather annoyed, but I guess I'll use it to pull the trigger on Witcher 3 GOTY edition or something rather than pushing my luck too much further.

 

[brau]

Finally got a response from GOG.com.



Looks like they aren't even going to try and troubleshoot the issues. Might be because I already mentioned that I was running latest drivers, latest experimental patches and attached my dxdiag report as requested.
Have requested a cash refund though, it'll pay for my Deus Ex purchase and almost half of my WoW Legion purchase.

Deus Ex is pretty awesome so far. Enjoy it!

 

[Mask]

Yeah, I submitted a second refund request as well, since the first was declined. I wanted to keep it, but I really don't think it was worth £40, and there's a lot more coming out that I'd rather put that money towards.

If they fix it up down the line, then yeah, I'll hop back in at a more respectable price. In the meantime, seems like I might have to really press the point with Steam.

 

[Lagamorph]

Deus Ex is pretty awesome so far. Enjoy it!

Already put 27 very enjoyable hours into it!

 

[sazzy]

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I don't understand why some people here are so worried that people getting refunds might harm other developers in the long run. I think that's BS. I'm a developer. If we ever end up making a game where I outright LIED to people even after I had to know that certain things didn't make it into the game, by all means, get a refund, cause in that case I was being a major asshole and misused your trust.

It's not like people will now get refunds on every game they don't LIKE, but you should be able to get your money back if the game that you've got is much less than what was advertised and / or if the game stops properly working (crashing constantly) some ways in. In that case, the only developers that'll get harmed are those that lie to their customers and the ones that didn't properly QA their games and that's just dandy.

Exactly, I can't wrap my head around those who so strongly defend people who give good devs like you a bad name. It's sad.

Also, I can't wait for your next project!

Spoiler

PS. I still want my Ori plushie! <3

 

[Jobbs]

damn, the steam reviews are savage

 

[Nomad Goat]

The policy hasn't changed - which is why there is a notice on the page since people including yourself are assuming you are entitled to getting a refund since someone else managed to while outside the standard criteria. It is still possible to get a refund outside of the days since purchased / hours played limit (as it always has been, rather than some new NMS specific thing), but it is entirely based on your circumstances and at the behest of whatever Valve judge based on that and info they have (which is pretty much the same as when you contact any customer service and are outside a refund policy criteria)

Pretty ignorant to suggest that people who want a refund for this fucking broken pile of lies are entitled.

I'm aware the policy didn't change, and am well aware Steam is selectively approving refunds regardless of hours played. I paid the same as everyone else, have thousands of dollars in purchases on my nearly 10 year old Steam account, and have never requested a refund. So it's disappointing to receive a standard copy/paste response from Steam on this matter. Considering the problems and backlash, at this point I think they should be suspending any sales until all refund issues are settled and/or the game is fixed (which is nearly impossible).

my wife is at like 2 hours 4 minutes and they said no because she's over the allotted time.

it sucks because she's not outright hateful like some people are about it, she's just kind of disappointed in what she got and isn't happy with the purchase

Wow... 4 minutes. That's brutal. I thought Steam had the consumers back, but it's pretty clear now that isn't the case. I really hope they change their position on this soon. I really like and respect Steam/Valve, and I'm aware they are the middleman in this situation, but if they can't offer something like refunds for specific reasons to all customers, don't offer it to a few.

 

[Lagamorph]

I thought Steam had the consumers back

What in the world made you think that?
Valve only have their refund policy because consumer laws essentially forced them into it.

 

[Z3M0G]

This is a little OT, but I don't know which thread is better to bring this up...

Lots of people raise pitchforks when you throw some blame at Sony for this entire situation... like they are not to blame for anything Hello Games has done.

But why don't we discuss the fact that Sony did the QA for the game?

http://www.no-mans-sky.com/2016/08/gameplay-support/

We&#8217;ve brought a new QA team on board today (larger than the entire Hello Games team!). This will complement the existing Sony QA team.

Sony was VERY involved with the development of this game, and had direct investment.

[Disclosure: I do QA for a software company. I am not pointing blame at Sony's QA team for this. I'm just saying that this places Sony, overall, into the development of this game and they didn't just market it for them. They were much more directly involved with the entire process. As someone who has been doing software QA for 10 years, I recognize the testing nightmare that this game would have been...]

 

[Senoculum]

.. if they can't offer something like refunds for specific reasons to all customers, don't offer it to a few.

You're just too late bruv. Refund policies can bend to the customer's feedback and I'm sure they were content with making the first few people who went over their policy limit get their money back. I'm almost certain they do that for anyone who has a compelling case. But when it's thousands? When news of refund policies having "changed" get slapped on media sites and friggin newspapers? There's a line. And the original policy is that fence before the line.

 

[Chucker]

Still IP Blocked from Sony Chat.
I think I'm giving up on this.

 

[Idle Storm]

2.6 hours played. Have attempted a refund 6 times. Even opened a support ticketc. They won't budge on steam.

 

[Tony Iron Man Stark]

Has anyone gotten refunds the past 24 hours?

It seems that PSN and Steam are more strict in giving back refunds.

 

[Nomad Goat]

What in the world made you think that?
Valve only have their refund policy because consumer laws essentially forced them into it.

Never had an issue before. Why not screw 1 lying fucking dev instead of thousands of customers?

You're just too late bruv. Refund policies can bend to the customer's feedback and I'm sure they were content with making the first few people who went over their policy limit get their money back. I'm almost certain they do that for anyone who has a compelling case. But when it's thousands? When news of refund policies having "changed" get slapped on media sites and friggin newspapers? There's a line. And the original policy is that fence before the line.

Wouldn't want to hurt that bottom line. It's better for thousands to be out $60.

At this point I'm not going to waste anymore time on trying for a refund. Hello Games needs the money more, I guess. Smh.

 

[Farewell]

Got my refund, 4 hours play time and >14 days since purchase. Had to try twice but Steam accepted it yesterday.

I defended it at the start, but it didn't take long to get tired of it, in some ways I like what is there, but it's not the game that was advertised and it's certainly not £40 worth of content.

Has anyone gotten refunds the past 24 hours?

It seems that PSN and Steam are more strict in giving back refunds.

I think this is the most recent one, just yesterday.

 

[Mask]

I see Steam amended their page to say the normal 2 hour limit still applies. It's not their fault, but that's not gonna go down well with people seeking a refund due to the lies.

On my third refund request now, I'm determined.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Still IP Blocked from Sony Chat.
I think I'm giving up on this.

That's ridiculous. wow.

Have you filed a complaint yet? I made a tutorial, it's in the OP. Best thing I can think of doing atm. It will at least make it so your efforts weren't totally fruitless.

 

[Muzicfreq]

ITT: People burning all the bridges scraping for that refund.

 

[Syranth]

I totally agree, a very considered response.

I personally hope that a lot of lessons have been learnt by the whole episode.

• Developers will not over promise
• Consumers will not be less inclined to pre-order
• Publishers will be more up front with the game prior to release
• Store-fronts will offer reasonable return policies

I think in general Steam is the leading light in this, their early access program is the route a game like this if left alone would have probably naturally taken. It would have set audience expectations and allowed funds to come in to the developer so they can flesh out features over a longer period of time.

From the outside looking in. It looks like the problem came when Sony saw the project and saw the buzz it had around it and turned it (in many peoples minds) into something it never was or was going to be, and Hello Games didn't (or couldn't) put the breaks on.

I have a few other things that Devs have learned:

• Developers should not actively engage with the community and should only relate information through an authorized legal channel
• Companies need an official media liason/PR company that deals with the public with the costs piped back to the customer
• E3 Conferences should be limited to buying partners (Best Buy, Gamestop, etc) and no longer available for press or individuals to manage game expectations and allow PR firms to directly manage expectations
• Model game hype after Nintendo that delivers information near to launch, or just as the product launches
• PR companies should release a media sheet of what a game is and isn't to manage expectations (NMS could have easily related it wasn't a shooter, space combat simulator, or simcity like base creator)
• Games should be free to play with pay gated sections of content (if you like the first 5 hours, pay for another 5). This would keep customers from paying $60 for a game, play 40 hours, then request a refund. You would pay for the portion you actually played. Some games already do this.

Someone posted something earlier that I tried to quote but I lost but it was spot on. We expect developers to have integrity but we don't hold ourselves to the same standard. I would estimate that a large percentage of internet bound gamers are an emotional wreck.

The problem is that games are not just a product they are an artistic expression. Some are of rage and fear (Doom), some are of control (Civs, 4x games, and RTSs) while others are of wonder (open world). This creates an emotional attachment. No one ever made a wise decision based on emotion alone and it shows in the gamer community now days. When things go south we get emotional. Some go fanboy, some SJW, and some spew flames. The wisest of us move on and learn.

So what do we do now? We obviously aren't calming down. What we need to do is take the emotion out of it and base it on economics. Don't pre-order on hype. Purchase based on a fact sheet of what the game represents. Don't listen to anyone else's opinion (including reviewers) before purchasing. If it doesn't represent the pure facts then ask for a refund. Move on with life and play the next game. Don't expect the developers to change for you. Allow them to change based on lack of sales.

If any of this sounds absurd then take a step back and see if you are a part of the problem. I started to use this standard for both games and movies and I find myself enjoying more and more of life. I enjoy No Man's Sky for what it is as well as other ill received games.

Well that's my 2c. Gamer community has come a long way. Some good (modders, FAQ makers, lets plays, speed runs and charity events) and some bad (hate trains, metacritic, review bombing, sjw, gamersgate, review site corporate influencing). I just hope it survives itself because we have so much more potential in games.

 

[Veggy]

£40 now back in my steam wallet

feelsgoodman.jpeg

 

[LostDonkey]

£40 now back in my steam wallet

feelsgoodman.jpeg

How many hours of "playtime"?

 

[Veggy]

How many hours of "playtime"?

2 hours 51 mins, purchased at launch

 

[FloatingDivider]

2 hours 51 mins, purchased at launch

gratz man spend that 60€ wisely this time lmao.

 

[rockyt]

Most consumers do not know their consumer rights and laws when it comes to games. The game industry gets away with a lot of stuff. A TOS is not above consumers rights and law. Most company especially gaming rely on this a lot. A TOS is not actually binding and rather flimsy when taken into court especially with the amount of false promises, false advertisement, bug ridden, and with crashes that prevent further enjoyment or progression. If companies do not fix the products in a timely, offer refunds, or address issues of taken out products, and services they can actually be sued. A TOS may work against them if product was paid for by the consumers and companies that fail to deliver on their end.

 

[PFD]

How many hours of "playtime"?

Why does it matter?

 

[rockyt]

Personally I like that this issues has taken more traction in that companies should not take their customers for granted as could results in losing customers, bad pr, and the possibilities of lawsuit as customers become more aware of their rights as consumers.

 

[A Grizzly Bear]

ITT: People burning all the bridges scraping for that refund.

This isn't a job interview. No one in here is "burning bridges", especially with two companies who understand the value of customer retention.

 

[Tony Iron Man Stark]

£40 now back in my steam wallet

feelsgoodman.jpeg

When did you get the refund, 2 hours ago?

 

[LostDonkey]

Why does it matter?

Just wondering.

 

[K.Jack]

NMS and Sean aside for a moment, Sony and Valve have been way too fucking messy, with arbitrarily granting some and denying others of refunds.

I'm glad for everyone who got through, it's just that this is not how business should be handled.

 

[LostDonkey]

I got an address through one of the agents on Steam support.

Don't know if it's helpful to anybody. I've passed it on to my Trading Standards case handler for their investigation though.

Valve Sarl
Attn: Legal Department
Regus City Center - Suite 227
26 Blvd. Royal
L-2449 Luxembourg
Luxembourg

I've also personally Emailed Mr Newell himself, Not that it might get me anywhere but hey, Worth a shot right.

 

[Beefy]

NMS and Sean aside for a moment, Sony and Valve have been way too fucking messy, with arbitrarily granting some and denying others of refunds.

I'm glad for everyone who got through, it's just that this is not how business should be handled.

Well are few (including a gaf member) are getting trading standards involved. As steam won't grant them a refund.

 

[Zafir]

NMS and Sean aside for a moment, Sony and Valve have been way too fucking messy, with arbitrarily granting some and denying others of refunds.

I'm glad for everyone who got through, it's just that this is not how business should be handled.

Well, they're not just one person managing the system.

Some people are strict, some people are a little more understanding.

In Sony's case there's also the issue of the 'one time refund' policy. If someone's already used it, then they're less likely to budge.

Best people can do is keep trying if they're really wanting a refund, and hope you get someone who can/is willing to go the extra mile.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

It's weird how people are so quick to judge the worthiness of a refund by how long it took before someone decided to seek one, it's not like there can exist some arbitrary line where you become ineligible because different games function differently. You could spend 2 or 3 realtime days playing an mmo to get to max level, only to find that the developers lied about available endgame content. To me that's grounds for a refund, though in my experience most mmo players are too invested by that point to seek one.

Even outside of the gaming examples, nobody could argue that you'd be taking the piss if you watched 20 hours of a TV series on blue ray; discovered the disc was defective, and died on the finale; then sought a refund. Time invested is not always relevant.

 

[Acerac]

This isn't a job interview. No one in here is "burning bridges", especially with two companies who understand the value of customer retention.

Whenever anyone makes a strange post like that check their post history. 9 times out of 10 they are a regular in NMS topics and just upset that people are not happy with their purchase.

It's shockingly consistent, really.

 

[robertsan21]

God I hope this will stop publishers and devs to show and promise shit they cant keep.

I am tired of all the fucking BS they are trying to sell us.

Just look at 99% of Ubisoft games, these fuckers always lie and show shit thats not even close to be in the final product.
Graphics, look how awesome it is. We get the game and its a fucking downgrade.
Games dont fucking work sometimes, buggy, they are like selling us an unfinished game in BETA.

 

[Veggy]

When did you get the refund, 2 hours ago?

After I sent the confirmation message (saying yes, refund it to steam wallet) it was in my account within 3 hours

I received the refund whenever I posted last

 

[Nohar]

I really would like to see gamers unite over this so things would change and put a stop to the downward spiral this gaming generation is in (lying creators, release of unfinished games, release of games in beta state, day-one DLCs and locked on-disc content, etc) instead of fighting amongst eachother. These practices need to stop.

In any case, we have a blatant example of false advertising. I hope to see legal action taken against Hello Games. I want this fiasco to become a precedent, in order to strenghten our consumers' rights and avoid a repeat of this scenario.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I got an address through one of the agents on Steam support.

Don't know if it's helpful to anybody. I've passed it on to my Trading Standards case handler for their investigation though.

Valve Sarl
Attn: Legal Department
Regus City Center - Suite 227
26 Blvd. Royal
L-2449 Luxembourg
Luxembourg

I've also personally Emailed Mr Newell himself, Not that it might get me anywhere but hey, Worth a shot right.

I'm going to try to keep a record of all of this so it definitely helps me. I'll eventually put together all of the information, and relevant websites and such in which to use that info including tutorials to make it easy for people. Hopefully next time a mess like this happens we can be a little faster in giving people a way to actually foster change and or get the help that they need.

It's really sad that as this dies down the industry will look at this situation and know that they can push people this far and still make craploads of money. The way that companies test the pulse is by pushing the bounds that we set more and more and seeing how hard we push back and then weighing it against the profit that was made (in this case way above average so you can bet it will happen again). I know first hand how defeated and helpless people usually feel in situations like this since in the majority of cases the companies have stacked the cards against them.

Most in the industry have the mentality that It is in the industries best interest to keep consumers uninformed, confused and feeling helpless about the steps they can take to actually change anything. They don't care about you in the slightest other than how they can make your money fly into their banks.

Mark my words, hardly anyone from these companies are ever going to do anything for you if there is no profit in it for them. Period. It is up to you as the consumer to protect and better your rights and set the bar for standards higher for the industry.

This sucks really hard for those devs who do want to be honest and transparent with their business and work extremely hard within their means to put out quality content. I'd imagine It's like a smack in their faces to see these people that con people out of their money by putting out subpar work and still making truckloads of dough because of misinformation and artificial hype.