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[RMS Gigantic]

yeah I have a feeling that they are likely actually new consoles, possibly retailer returned like mentioned earlier.
But Nintendo makes a little more back because they are selling them directly. Maybe they call them refurb as not to piss off retailers.

This is a really interesting theory, actually, and it makes at least some degree of sense. It's like Nintendo's way of selling $200 WiiUs without losing any profit.

 

[HUELEN10]

I thought all or most of those refurbs were returned unsold stock?

There is no real way of knowing, some have been able to register for coins, others not. Furthermore, there have been cases reported elsewhere of very light scuffing on the underside of some of these. I think it's a healthy mix of both, with new casings for systems deemed to need them.

 

[shinra-bansho]

NPD only tracks brick & mortar retail sales (but not wal-mart iirc).

NPD includes Wal-Mart. It has for a long time now.

They apparently track to an extent, but don't release, digital software.

This isn't sell-through the retail channel so it probably won't be tracked. However, prior to inclusion of Wal-Mart NPD extrapolated total sales, so it's not unfathomable that if they thought this a meaningful impact then they would try to include it in their tracking I guess.

Although I doubt it's enough to materially impact the total sales and people are just too willing to take anecdotes as data.

 

[erawsd]

NPD only tracks brick & mortar retail sales (but not wal-mart iirc).

They started tracking Walmart a few years ago.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Nintendo Rep told me on the phone that they when they sold out of these, they had to "make more stock." He basically confirmed that they were brand new systems, "newer than any other refurbished product you will ever buy."

 

[RM8]

But was it cheaper than a non-refub unit?

Here in my country refub untis are at the same price. They just bank on people not undestanding what it really means.

It was cheaper.

 

[Guamu]

But was it cheaper than a non-refub unit?

Here in my country refub untis are at the same price. They just bank on people not undestanding what it really means.

Yes, they are cheaper
(about $3500 instead of almost $6000)

Edit: beaten ¬_¬

 

[HUELEN10]

Nintendo Rep told me on the phone that they when they sold out of these, they had to "make more stock." He basically confirmed that they were brand new systems, "newer than any other refurbished product you will ever buy."

I don't see how "make more stock" translates into must be brand new.

 

[mechphree]

By now, most of you should know about the refurb thread. For those not in the know, here's the 411. NOA has, for quite some time, been selling refurb systems to the public through their online store. The Wii U seems to be the star of the show though; 200 USD will get you a refurb deluxe SKU, the same one you'd find on shelves in holiday 2012. NOA has done a fantastic job quality-wise, as the condition of this hardware is pristine, easily on par with Apple Factory Refurbs. Seems that for a lot of people, 200 USD is a good entry point for a value-packed 8th gen experience, or a addition to their current 8th library. Nintendo has kept this on the down low, but more and more people are learning about the deal every day.

That being said, do you think NOA should put these at retail? First of all, look at the box.

These systems have actual dedicated retail-style packages with all the bells and whistles. Second of all, it would not be the first time a company does this. A few years back, Microsoft sold refurb 360s in premium packaging at retail for a damned low price too! I saw these things get emptied out within a short period of time being on the shelves at Best Buy, so I'd say there's definitely a market for this stuff. Based on the fact that this happened last gen with MS, and the fact that these Wii Us all come in these premium boxes, I just have a feeling they are ready to hit retail at a moments notice with no warning.

Do you think this is something likely to happen? Do you think it should happen? I think it only could help them; didn't seem to hurt MS any when they did it.

Dropping the price under $200 would be better then selling those refurbished. .

 

[John Harker]

NPD includes Wal-Mart. It has for a long time now.

They apparently track to an extent, but don't release, digital software.

This isn't sell-through the retail channel so it probably won't be tracked. However, prior to inclusion of Wal-Mart NPD extrapolated total sales, so it's not unfathomable that if they thought this a meaningful impact then they would try to include it in their tracking I guess.

Although I doubt it's enough to materially impact the total sales and people are just too willing to take anecdotes as data.

Hasn't had any noticeable affect on software sales, considering how grim it still is. Unless you're a Mario.

 

[Interceptor]

Is there any evidence that "so many people" are buying in? Let's say 20 people in a NeoGAF thread say they're buying a refurb unit. That's a whole lot for a thread on GAF, but it's peanuts in the larger scheme of things. A little perspective is needed.

More like 200.

 

[raebodep]

I ordered one and it shipped but the estimated delivery date is still 7 days away. oh well I have lots of games to play in the mean time.

 

[FeiRR]

I bought a used WiiU because it was considerably cheaper and now I have second thoughts, not about the console itself, it's great, but maybe I should've bought a new one. My friend is also interested in getting WiiU and he was following auctions. He pointed out to me that there are a lot of auctions of broken units, I mean a lot relatively to the number of consoles offered. I told him that it may be because people who are happy with their consoles don't want to sell them and those who have broken units will try to get rid of them.

But is it really so? Is there any data on reliability of WiiU? I tried to google it but didn't find anything conclusive. It seems that most broken units have a blinking blue LED or a damaged disc drive.

 

[staticneuron]

Cheap entry, every time. A $300 box with 1 or 2 games I do not want is still a $300 box and I still have to spend money to buy games I'd like to play.

Every game doesn't appeal to every person. An extremely popular game might draw in 30% of an audience, and that's quite an achievement. Giving that game away with your console is going to draw attention, but having a lower price will draw more.

I suppose I'll note one very notable exception in Wii Sports. Giving that game away was probably the best bundle ever.

The concept of someone who is interested in purchasing a nintendo console but not purchasing a first party title such as NSMBU or MK8 is really suspect perspective. Given the numbers of nintendo software sales in the past, those two games are the most likely titles a new customer is going to purchase. Anyone with a smidgen of logic would realize that why go for a refurb when $10 or $20 can get yo a new one along with the game they were most likely going to purchase anyways.

The reason why I can't but the dead in the water theory as a certainty is because it's really predicated on the idea that Nintendo remains static, and always will. And while I get the narrative due to their often conservative corporate culture, I think it overlooks a lot of obvious facts, like how Nintendo has actually managed to by and large stay profitable and culturally relevant while tons of their competitors have come and gone. And unlike Sony or Microsoft they can't rely on other divisions to take up the slack when their games business falters, which means when their back is against the wall you better believe they'll act.

Or you know, maybe they really are doomed, just like they've been the past 20 years.

Nintendo stays large an profitable because of Gumpei Yoko. He was the reason behind them choosing to avoid being loss leaders in both the home market and the portable market. Nintendo's best asset is surviving and because of that they are a brand that is iconic with buying a kid something on the level of Disney. Even when Eisner trampled on Disney wishes and started cranking out low quality crappy sequels to the best Disney films, parents would walk into a store to purchase a Disney film because they felt it would be good for kids and shut them up for a while. It didn't matter to Eisner that they weren't reeling in the absurd success numbers like their earlier titles because the new films were cheaper to make and were established already.

So Nintendo is not "doomed". They never were. It is just that they are likely to remain in last place every generation because of their choice of hardware and software design. The Wii was an anomaly because it captured a large casual audience who were bound to go elsewhere when the buzz died. People called it, Nintendo diehards put their fingers in their ears and now we have the Wii U numbers to look at that indicate that the original assessment of the Wii and its success was correct.

In a ways, I am always hoping for nintendo to release a game that makes me go.... oh man, I HAVE to get that. But the more I look, the more I feel as if the only reason to go back to nintendo is nostalgia for me and not interest in their new products.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I got my Wii U with that insane W101, NG3RE and Wind Waker HD combo on ebay for 280 bucks.

That effectively put the console itself in the sub 180 region assuming wind waker = 50, W101 = 30 and NG3RE = 20.

It also came with a bonus big pen sized stylus and screen protector kit.

Kinda cute.

 

[Hatchtag]

They need a slight price cut, but I don't think they'll hit as low as refurb price for a while.
My personal guess is a 279.99 Wii U bundle that comes with Smash + Gamecube adapter + Gamecube controller + an Amiibo, and that they'll just keep releasing cheaper and cheaper bundles.

 

[Raziel]

I thought WiiU got 99 problems but price ain't one?

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

While on the topic, I've stumbled across these in Wal Mart Mexico's website...I had no idea this SKU existed anywhere!

Hmm, that looks pretty enticing...

Price: 4,999.00 Pesos (383 US Dollars)

 

[Neifirst]

Those $329.99 Mario Kart 8 bundles seemed to sell out pretty quickly. There probably weren't a huge amount produced in the first place, but still.

My guess is a new $329.99 bundle for holiday with Super Smash Bros, a couple Amiibos, and the 32GB system. The digital deluxe program is set to expire at the end of the year - I wonder if Nintendo will extend it?

 

[gogogow]

But third party developers won't green light games until the install base gets healthier.

Third party games lol. Stop talking about third party games. They are not coming back.
First, wait till install base gets healthier, greenlight games and then develop them. This is gonna take years. By that time, Nintendo already released their new console. Some publishers might have said that, but it's just to not burn their bridges with Nintendo.

 

[-PXG-]

They should drop the price of the system. Those "refurb" units are returned overstock anyway. The fact that they have sold this well and are back ordered should tell them something.

The hardware in both the Wii U and it's competition don't justify a $300 price point anymore. For another $100, I can get a PS4 or an Xbox One. They need to widen the gap. $200 is more attractive.

 

[Cynar]

They should drop the price of the system. Those "refurb" units are returned overstock anyway. The fact that they have sold this well and are back ordered should tell them something.

The hardware in both the Wii U and it's competition don't justify a $300 price point anymore. For another $100, I can get a PS4 or an Xbox One. They need to widen the gap. $200 is more attractive.

This. The Wii U is a great system but the price isn't right compared to what's available on the market. Even $50 lower with a game would be better.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Proves that Nintendo can move Wii-U consoles at a more reasonable price point.

What proof? Because a few gaffers said they are buying refurb WiiU's?

 

[ramparter]

Europe too Nintendo, Europe too please

 

[Hubble]

Nintendo will never release these to retail as the same price as their website.

It defeats the whole purpose of their strategy........

Nintendo wants you to buy the Wii:U for $350 at retail.

Nintendo as a strategy is selling significantly cheaper refurb units on their website if you do not want to pay $350.

If they released these to retail, no one would buy the retail version. This is just a side step strategy to widen the userbase. The Wii:U should be $200, so they are selling units at that price.

 

[RK128]

....Isn't Nintendo already selling the Wii U at a good price already in stores? That Skylanders bundle is 250 (plus if you sell back the skylanders stuff you could get back at least 40-50$+), so that alone is a solid deal.

I think the best move would be to drop the prices, but not to extreme; the Basic at 200 and the Deluxe at 250. Not only would it be in Wii-like price range but it would be at the price that screams "great deal!".

It also helps that Nintendo had a great e3, so they could load up trailers/demos of some of the stuff they showed at E3 on newer Wii U's .

 

[koopas]

What proof? Because a few gaffers said they are buying refurb WiiU's?

Yeah I don't agree either.

The price isn't the issue or at the very least isn't their largest issue. People saying they should drop the price are trying to justify being a cheapskate.

 

[Seanspeed]

At this point, the console price itself, while still a bit too high, isn't even what's holding me back that much.

Its the price of games. And this goes for the 3DS as well.

Its like buying a used Aston Martin for an incredibly good price, only to find out that the running costs, insurance and maintenance are still astronomical and unaffordable.

 

[krypt0nian]

I'd like to see the data of units moved before I have an opinion.

At this point in the game, it probably should come with a sticker that says 3rd party support not included. that not to be funny. That's so kids are not getting a console that is not exactly thriving.

 

[lantus]

I think they should drop the price of the retail packages they already have out there. There seems to be a large amount of interest at the refurb price, but everything else seems about the same as usual.

 

[cw_sasuke]

At this point, the console price itself, while still a bit too high, isn't even what's holding me back that much.

Its the price of games. And this goes for the 3DS as well.

Its like buying a used Aston Martin for an incredibly good price, only to find out that the running costs, insurance and maintenance are still astronomical and unaffordable.

Just to make sure where you coming from - are you okay with software prices of new releases on PS3/PS4 and 360/One ?

 

[HUELEN10]

....Isn't Nintendo already selling the Wii U at a good price already in stores? That Skylanders bundle is 250 (plus if you sell back the skylanders stuff you could get back at least 40-50$+), so that alone is a solid deal.

I think the best move would be to drop the prices, but not to extreme; the Basic at 200 and the Deluxe at 250. Not only would it be in Wii-like price range but it would be at the price that screams "great deal!".

It also helps that Nintendo had a great e3, so they could load up trailers/demos of some of the stuff they showed at E3 on newer Wii U's .

Add refurb to that lineup for 225 with a nunchuck combo in box (I mean, it comes with Nintendoland!) and I think you've nailed it.

 

[Futureman]

At this point, the console price itself, while still a bit too high, isn't even what's holding me back that much.

Its the price of games. And this goes for the 3DS as well.

Its like buying a used Aston Martin for an incredibly good price, only to find out that the running costs, insurance and maintenance are still astronomical and unaffordable.

Zombi U $15
Wonderful 101 $24
Mario Kart 8 $49
Wind Waker $41
DKC: TF $44
3D World $49

all prices from Amazon. Not sure what you are asking, for Nintendo to give away their games?

 

[big_z]

What proof? Because a few gaffers said they are buying refurb WiiU's?

when target was selling them for $150 here in Canada people went crazy trying to track them down. The rfd thread alone has 1/4 million views and a lot of people managed to snag them before stores caught on and refused to sell it.

They should drop the price of the system. Those "refurb" units are returned overstock anyway. The fact that they have sold this well and are back ordered should tell them something.

The hardware in both the Wii U and it's competition don't justify a $300 price point anymore. For another $100, I can get a PS4 or an Xbox One. They need to widen the gap. $200 is more attractive.

they don't want to lower the 2/3DS/xl prices. The xl is still $199(more than $100 profit). if they lower the price on the handhelds and console by $50 then they're making very little profit on hardware. normally they could make up the loss with royalties but the wii u has zero third party support.

 

[FyreWulff]

I think they should drop the price of the retail packages they already have out there. There seems to be a large amount of interest at the refurb price, but everything else seems about the same as usual.

All our local stores are cleaned out of Wii Us. Wal Mart, Target, you name it, it's gone

They seem to be doing fine

 

[Seanspeed]

Just to make sure where you coming from - are you okay with software prices of new releases on PS3/PS4 and 360/One ?

Well I'm primarily a PC gamer now, but I own a PS3 and I've never paid more than £20 for a game.

And when I was a console-only gamer, I also tended to not spend more than $20-30 on games except for a rare few must-haves on Day 1 each year.

My big problem with Nintendo games is that most of the quality, 1st party releases stay high priced for a long, long time. You cant just wait around for a year and get the game on the cheap, cuz it'll still be nearly full-priced still.

So basically, at least with PS and Xbox, you get the option of waiting around and being able to buy cheaper games, but with Nintendo you have to pay the big bucks for the best games.

 

[HUELEN10]

I thought WiiU got 99 problems but price ain't one?

It isn't, for many reasons, and this is one of them.

Not sure what you are asking, for Nintendo to give away their games?

Not accusing him of it, I want to stress that, but I know people that are still waiting for an ambassador program to quickly nab one and get 20 games for free that they think they're entitled to for some reason.

That and Nintendo is already giving out free games, such as with the Mario Kart deal.

 

[Seanspeed]

Zombi U $15
Wonderful 101 $24
Mario Kart 8 $49
Wind Waker $41
DKC: TF $44
3D World $49

all prices from Amazon. Not sure what you are asking, for Nintendo to give away their games?

And most of those $40-50+ games will still be $40+ a year from now.

 

[HUELEN10]

And most of those $40-50+ games will still be $40+ a year from now.

And why wouldn't they be? Serious question. If they sell within expectations at those prices, why the fuck would they stop? Are you saying all games need to eventually hit 10 USD when enough years pass? I like paying the lowest price myself, but I find that to be a very foolish notion.

 

[KalBalboa]

I don't think they're selling grand volumes of refurbished Wii Us. People need to think outside the message board & hardcore bubble more.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Well I'm primarily a PC gamer now, but I own a PS3 and I've never paid more than £20 for a game.

And when I was a console-only gamer, I also tended to not spend more than $20-30 on games except for a rare few must-haves on Day 1 each year.

My big problem with Nintendo games is that most of the quality, 1st party releases stay high priced for a long, long time. You cant just wait around for a year and get the game on the cheap, cuz it'll still be nearly full-priced still.

So basically, at least with PS and Xbox, you get the option of waiting around and being able to buy cheaper games, but with Nintendo you have to pay the big bucks for the best games.

Okay i can understand that - thats often the case with Nintendo hardware if you wanna play the first party exclusives you will most likely pay full price. But its not like you have to buy 10 games at once when you get the system, there are always deals from time to time like the B2G1 promo or just cheaper games like Rayman Legends or W101.

The current MK8 is a great example, right now is the perfect time to jump in and get some freebies with it.

 

[Seanspeed]

And why wouldn't they be? Serious question. If they sell within expectations at those prices, why the fuck would they stop? Are you saying all games need to eventually hit 10 USD when enough years pass? I like paying the lowest price myself, but I find that to be a very foolish notion.

I didn't say Nintendo needed to or should do anything.

Okay i can understand that - thats often the case with Nintendo hardware if you wanna play the first party exclusives you will most likely pay full price. But its not like you have to buy 10 games at once when you get the system, there are always deals from time to time like the B2G1 promo or just cheaper games like Rayman Legends or W101.

The current MK8 is a great example, right now is the perfect time to jump in and get some freebies with it.

I don't want little freebies! lol

I want to not spend a lot of money.

 

[sörine]

I'd like to see the data of units moved before I have an opinion.

At this point in the game, it probably should come with a sticker that says 3rd party support not included. that not to be funny. That's so kids are not getting a console that is not exactly thriving.

It has 3rd party support, just not the kind you want. It's purely indies and kids games now.

 

[phanphare]

I don't get why people say Amiibo requires a GamePad in the box. Couldn't Nintendo just manufacture an NFC stand for like a couple bucks and throw it in the box? I mean, the Skylanders things don't seem to be all that expensive.

they could but it'd be stupid considering the main controller for their console does the same thing

dig?

 

[cw_sasuke]

I don't want little freebies! lol

I want to not spend a lot of money.

In this case the little freebie is a 50 dollar game and dollar eShop credt.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

The concept of someone who is interested in purchasing a nintendo console but not purchasing a first party title such as NSMBU or MK8 is really suspect perspective. Given the numbers of nintendo software sales in the past, those two games are the most likely titles a new customer is going to purchase. Anyone with a smidgen of logic would realize that why go for a refurb when $10 or $20 can get yo a new one along with the game they were most likely going to purchase anyways.

It's not suspect and it's not like data does not exist. You cite "nintendo software sales in the past," so go ahead, consult the numbers. They're great. NSMB was extremely popular on Wii, is popular on Wii U. Mario Kart has been extremely popular on every home console it has appeared (not to mention handhelds for both). Despite that, neither game has sold to a majority of the audience. "Those two games" might be "the most likely titles a new customer is going to purchase" compared to any other, but the data shows a customer is more likely not to buy either. Substitute any title you like (go ahead, but it's a waste of time), you're not hitting a bigger percentage. A price cut hits everyone.

 

[staticneuron]

It's not suspect and it's not like data does not exist. You cite "nintendo software sales in the past," so go ahead, consult the numbers. They're great. NSMB was extremely popular on Wii, is popular on Wii U. Mario Kart has been extremely popular on every home console it has appeared (not to mention handhelds for both). Despite that, neither game has sold to a majority of the audience. "Those two games" might be "the most likely titles a new customer is going to purchase" compared to any other, but the data shows a customer is more likely not to buy either. Substitute any title you like (go ahead, but it's a waste of time), you're not hitting a bigger percentage. A price cut hits everyone.

Sure you can say..... over time. But if you are looking at lifetime data sales you are actually missing the picture. Because when a sequel comes out, people aren't going to invest in the "previous" title so the sales are in relation to the install base at the time.

So as of March 31 2014, the Wii U has 6.17 Million units sold. NSMB U has an install base of 4.16 million. I don't know about you but the last time I checked 67% is the majority.

Historically speaking all the numbers look the same to show that the vast majority of nintendo consumer purchase first party mario titles with the exception of the Wii which I already pointed out...

The Wii was an anomaly because it captured a large casual audience who were bound to go elsewhere when the buzz died.

So if we want to go down the numbers (ignoring sequels of franchises) then let us do so.

NGC: Total install - 21 million SMS - 6 million
N64: Total install - 33 million SM3D - 12 million
SNES: Total install - 49 million SMW - 20 million
NES: Total install - 62 million SMB - 40 million

So even looking at single entries the numbers show one third to a half or more of the install base purchasing a single entry over lifetime of the console. Considering purchasing habits the numbers are going to be striking looking at franchises numbers as a whole. New FP entries create new bundles. So truth is if you look at franchise totals it is without a question stacked towards consumers purchasing the most recent Mario title at the time. Honestly, I am surprised anyone would even try to dispute it.

 

[zackmorris]

I thought these weren't even really refurb units, but left over bundles that they are selling as refurb?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

At this point I'm a wiiu deathwatch vulture. I want a new 200 console with the two nsmb games and 3d Mario.

 

[Bucca]

I bought a refurbished one and absolutely love it.

And can I just say, there is no way in hell this is a refurb unit. It was absolutely spotless.

Most of these must be just unsold stock.