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[Mesousa]

But then didn't see the absolutely devastating change for the worst in Trump?

Apparently not.

 

[plagiarize]

Two states Bernie won in the primaries. That Hillary lost in the General...that hadnt gone Republican since Reagan.

Bernie appeals to rural voters that went Trump over Clinton. Bernie would have done what Clinton couldnt do, beat a clown.

The deflection to Bernie for Hillary's pathetic numbers in this chart is pretty pathetic.

Didn't do. Not couldn't do.

I know I'm being pedantic there, but Clinton clearly could have won, whether by making fewer mistakes or having fewer things outside her control go against her.

 

[zulux21]

As someone from Wisconsin, this did not surprise me at all.

Maybe that's why I'm confused by the "minorities hate Bernie" rhetoric. It's quite the opposite here. A lot of people blame the Clinton's for tough on crime laws which have absolutely gutted the minorities in the state.

But then again, the DNC decided to not send any resources here for no reason, so it's no surprise that no one listens to us anyway

everyone loved bernie in the madison area.

repubs, dems, didn't matter everyone was all on board for bernie. it wasn't until after bernie was eliminated that things got ugly.

 

[Mesousa]

Pretty sad.

We (and I'm talking about African American voters) need to do better before we get around to blaming anyone else for the election results.

If Sessions and Bannon were more palatable to you than Clinton and whatever she brought to the table, you probably need a history lesson.

No, they need to reach out better.

 

[KingV]

What's "super complex" about the fact that fully 1/4 of the voting eligible population of this country thought a CLEARLY xenophobic, race-baiting, misogynistic, anti-intellectual, money-driven, narcissistic sociopath and pathological liar was the best choice on the ballot, and at least 1/2 of the voting pop couldn't be bothered to make a distinction between that and the other option on the ballot?

Don't overanalyze this. There's just a lot of people in this country who have a deplorable lack of basic human decency and empathy.

Because that is not a useful analysis.

You're right, if cynical, but what can you actually DO about that?

I'm focused on things that can actually be changed. "1/4 of the US sucks, and 1/2 doesn't care" is not a path to change anything. It's just whining.

 

[Guevara]

but her emails ...crime bill

 

[Jenov]

I'd like to see the change in minority voting between Hillary Clinton and Gore or Kerry. Comparing them to Obama seems unrealistic considering he had a historic candidacy that enthused many more black voters.

 

[Neoweee]

I'd like to see the change in minority voting between Hillary Clinton and Gore or Kerry. Comparing them to Obama seems unrealistic considering he had a historic candidacy that enthused many more black voters.

It's about the same, overall, but there's a lot to parse on a per-state basis.

 

[Jarate]

everyone loved bernie in the madison area.

repubs, dems, didn't matter everyone was all on board for bernie. it wasn't until after bernie was eliminated that things got ugly.

Which is not surprising given our history with not only the progressive movement, but also our love for Bob Lafollette.

 

[Bounceounce]

Trump straight up advocated for the execution of innocent minority youths, for over a decade, while Sanders actually voted for the bill that was the topic of Hillary's quote.



Bernie is really bad example here as some point of comparison, because generally he got absolutely fucking trounced in the battleground states, in larger states, by larger margins. Him squeaking by in Michigan with slightly better than a tie, under delegate rules that are almost purely proportional, is a really shitty and worthless feather for his cap.

Bernie spoke out against the bill and then claims to have voted for it because if was packages with the violence against women act or something along those lines, Gaf seems to forget this all the time when trying to make an equivalence between the two when we already have a video of Bernie laying out why it was a terrible idea (in intersectional terms, since Gaf seems to love to pretend like Bernie somehow wasn't preaching intersectional politics) and that set the tone for many.

What should he pointed out is how he uses his vote for that bill as an example of a positive in an ad or later campaign if I remember right, despite all of his comments going against similar policies all the way back to the Reagan area, which is a point of hypocrisy and a good attack on Bernie, you could also mention that Bernie came from a safe area unlike Hillary who was heavily involved in the black community which may have given him a position to grandstand on the bill while Hillary didn't have that luxury as she had dead people at her door.

But anyways, that video swung me and many others and it's probably going to stay that way.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

But I thought we were supposed to stop talking about "identity politics".

The democratic has to be an open coalition an umbrella party that embraces all races and speaks to that fact.

It's what makes republicans better at messaging because they only have to deal with a singular demographic therefore a singular message, white dudes.

Whereas with democrats, it's everyone, and that leads to sometimes confused messaging. So it's more about finding issues everyone agrees with like raising the standard of living etc.

 

[Cocaloch]

What's "super complex" about the fact that fully 1/4 of the voting eligible population of this country thought a CLEARLY xenophobic, race-baiting, misogynistic, anti-intellectual, money-driven, narcissistic sociopath and pathological liar was the best choice on the ballot, and at least 1/2 of the voting pop couldn't be bothered to make a distinction between that and the other option on the ballot?

Don't overanalyze this. There's just a lot of people in this country who have a deplorable lack of basic human decency and empathy.

Analysis is generally helpful to actually changing outcomes in the future. Throwing up our hands and saying people are bad is a recipe to never make anything better.

But I thought we were supposed to stop talking about "identity politics".

The democratic has to be an open coalition an umbrella party that embraces all races and speaks to that fact.

It's what makes republicans better at messaging because they only have to deal with a singular demographic therefore a singular message, white dudes.

Whereas with democrats, it's everyone, and that leads to sometimes confused messaging. So it's more about finding issues everyone agrees with like raising the standard of living etc.

There's more to it than this. The GOP is a big tent party with plenty of fracture lines, look at the tea party.

 

[Blader]

As someone from Wisconsin, this did not surprise me at all.

Maybe that's why I'm confused by the "minorities hate Bernie" rhetoric. It's quite the opposite here. A lot of people blame the Clinton's for tough on crime laws which have absolutely gutted the minorities in the state.

But then again, the DNC decided to not send any resources here for no reason, so it's no surprise that no one listens to us anyway

It's not rhetoric. POC voters broke for Hillary in the primary in a big way.

 

[shintoki]

Jesus H Christ.

Well, there's the election folks.

Just how bad was the voter suppression?

Voter Suppression is more likely hurting the lower level elections.

Losing 10% of your vote just meant people didn't give a fuck.


And another thread going to shit for Bernie "If it was him or wasn't". Who cares, he lost, Clinton won. It doesn't matter how he would fair unless you have a Deloeran that can hit 88

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I'd like to see the change in minority voting between Hillary Clinton and Gore or Kerry. Comparing them to Obama seems unrealistic considering he had a historic candidacy that enthused many more black voters.

Not sure about turnout, but per exit polls Gore got about 90% and Hillary and Kerry both got 88.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

No, they need to reach out better.

You don't need someone to hold your hand and tell you that a racist man - who advocates "Stop & Frisk", gutting the EPA (see: Flint, MI), or defunding public education, all while refusing to meet with black leaders - suddenly taking over the White House is a bad thing for the community.

Colin Kaepernick is an inspiration for protesting, but he's a blockhead for not heading down to the ballots. If you have energy to march, you have energy to vote.

 

[Aaronology]

Maybe the other side should have placed an option up that didnt refer to our kids as super predators?

It's an insult to everything black people have endured in this country that you think this is a reasonable excuse justifying the abstention of people who could have helped affect a better outcome. Idiotic. Short sighted. Stupid. Self defeating. Counter productive. Whiny. Frustrating as fuck. The President who signed the Civil Rights Act is noted for also being a regular and enthusiastic user of the word nigger. Johnson was every bit the disgusting racist that so many people tirelessly attempt to portray HRC as. But his smashing of Jim Crow and the KKK, amongst other things, ultimately meant the support he received from civil rights activists was worthwhile.

Imagine someone who voted for LBJ watching people turn their nose up at Clinton's out of context superpredator remark. "Did you hear what she said, how can we possibly vote for such a person!?" How indeed. And now we have a man who calls grown black men boys, who praised the KKK, who labeled a white civil rights lawyer a "disgrace to his race" for defending black clients and who laments that civil rights is being "forced down" white America's throats as our Attorney fucking General. What a goddamn joke. If nothing else, I hope Trump and his cabinet disabuse my generation of the idea that they have the privilege to sit out elections unless they get an ideal candidate to vote for.

 

[Hubbl3]

Just to maintain perspective, because I'm starting to think the narrative of this thread is "Clinton lost because of black people"

Black people were the one demographic that overwhelmingly shunned the GOP candidate and backed Clinton. The majority demographic of this country backed Trump, plain and simple. If less of them did, we wouldn't be where we currently are.

 

[Aztechnology]

You don't need someone to hold your hand and tell you that a racist man - who advocates "Stop & Frisk", gutting the EPA (see: Flint, MI), or defunding public education, all while refusing to meet with black leaders - suddenly taking over the White House is a bad thing for the community.

Colin Kaepernick is an inspiration for protesting, but he's a blockhead for not heading down to the ballots. If you have energy to march, you have energy to vote.

^

It's amazing how many people I talked to that were at marches post election that didn't vote. It was almost like conscience elsring for a lot of them. Which I'm still glad to see, but it's a bit like a pep rally showing up after the game. I just hope that energy carries over into midterms and beyond.

 

[Aaronology]

Pretty sad.

We (and I'm talking about African American voters) need to do better before we get around to blaming anyone else for the election results.

If Sessions and Bannon were more palatable to you than Clinton and whatever she brought to the table, you probably need a history lesson.

.

 

[Vicetrailia]

But I thought we were supposed to stop talking about "identity politics".

The democratic has to be an open coalition an umbrella party that embraces all races and speaks to that fact.

It's what makes republicans better at messaging because they only have to deal with a singular demographic therefore a singular message, white dudes.

Whereas with democrats, it's everyone, and that leads to sometimes confused messaging. So it's more about finding issues everyone agrees with like raising the standard of living etc.

Democrats have to appeal to everyone, that's the future. You have to run on all of the big items, not just two or three big things that eveyone agrees with unless the times justify it. It doesn't yet, but when Trump is finished who knows.

 

[family_guy]

I pretty much wrote off all my black friends who didn't vote. If you got time to spend tweeting or Facebooking all day then you got time to vote. They just didn't care.

 

[Bounceounce]

It's not rhetoric. POC voters broke for Hillary in the primary in a big way.

It's rhetoric mistaking the liberal base on Gaf and the hold Hillary had on black women, especially southern black women and black people for a statement of dislike against Bernie and a general overview on the minority perspective on him.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

More would have stayed home with Bernie on the ticket. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

I doubt it. I don't see any POC, especially a Black voter, who voted for HRC in the primaries sitting out in the general had she lost.

There are no Black voters who refused to vote for Bernie based off general principal. Blacks don't dislike him, he merely failed to get the overall momentum needed for them to turn on Hillary. There are some Black voters who would never vote Clinton based on the tough on crime shenanigans in the 90s and her work as SoS.

 

[InstigateAndInquire]

Jesus H Christ.

Well, there's the election folks.

Just how bad was the voter suppression?

Once again WI and MI dominate the discussion posted by the OP when those two states do not have the EVs to tip the election.

The equation also includes PA or alternatively, FL+MI/PA. Hillary carried both PA and FL in the primary, campaigned heavily in PA and FL in the general, and lost both.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Maybe the other side should have placed an option up that didnt refer to our kids as super predators?

You're right, the current situation is so much better for minorities than having someone in office who said a stupid thing decades ago.

 

[Suikoguy]

I doubt it. I don't see any POC, especially a Black voter, who voted for HRC in the primaries sitting out in the general had she lost.

There are no Black voters who refused to vote for Bernie based off general principal. Blacks don't dislike him, he merely failed to get the overall momentum needed for them to turn on Hillary. There are some Black voters who would never vote Clinton based on the tough on crime shenanigans in the 90s and her work as SoS.

Complete and total conjecture,

Then again, you think Hillary bombed your home country, so why anyone is taking you seriously, I don't know.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

everyone loved bernie in the madison area.

repubs, dems, didn't matter everyone was all on board for bernie. it wasn't until after bernie was eliminated that things got ugly.

This is how Bernie would have won in the general: democrat base + nearly all moderates/independents + a small but significant part of the blue collar republican base.

He was a better match up in the general against Trump than Clinton in the Primary.

 

[Aztechnology]

It's rhetoric mistaking the liberal base on Gaf and the hold Hillary had on black women, especially southern black women and black people for a statementbof dislike against Bernie and a general overview on the minority perspective on him.

Instead of arguing we could just lay it out as fact.

White people are by in large responsible for a Trump presidency. However minority voters and your voters had the power to make the difference.

 

[Jenov]

It's an insult to everything black people have endured in this country that you think this is a reasonable excuse justifying the abstention of people who could have helped affect a better outcome. Idiotic. Short sighted. Stupid. Self defeating. Counter productive. Whiny. Frustrating as fuck. The President who signed the Civil Rights Act is noted for also being a regular and enthusiastic user of the word nigger. Johnson was every bit the disgusting racist that so many people tirelessly attempt to portray HRC as. But his smashing of Jim Crow and the KKK, amongst other things, ultimately meant the support he received from civil rights activists was worthwhile.

Imagine someone who voted for LBJ watching people turn their nose up at Clinton's out of context superpredator remark. "Did you hear what she said, how can we possibly vote for such a person!?" How indeed. And now we have a man who calls grown black men boys, who praised the KKK, who labeled a white civil rights lawyer a "disgrace to his race" for defending black clients and who laments that civil rights is being "forced down" white America's throats as our Attorney fucking General. What a goddamn joke. If nothing else, I hope Trump and his cabinet disabuse my generation of the idea that they have the privilege to sit out elections unless they get an ideal candidate to vote for.

Well said. Best part of this is it wasn't even her crime bill, she was first lady and didn't create it nor vote on it. She also apologized and made many platform changes to reflect her stance on the issue. Her old comment, while in poor taste, were referencing the problematic inner city gangs at the time. Meanwhile Bernie DID vote for it and said similar comments ("It is my firm belief that clearly, there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.") but received little to no backlash for it. Sucks being a female politician.

 

[Mesousa]

You don't need someone to hold your hand and tell you that a racist man - who advocates "Stop & Frisk", gutting the EPA (see: Flint, MI), or defunding public education, all while refusing to meet with black leaders - suddenly taking over the White House is a bad thing for the community.

Colin Kaepernick is an inspiration for protesting, but he's a blockhead for not heading down to the ballots. If you have energy to march, you have energy to vote.

Yeah, nobody ever tells white voters nobody has to hold their hands as the likes of Trump and Sanders get on their knees and blow them about "Bringing dem jerbs Back", but Black voters are supposed to magically have the full force of magic and vote in historic numbers every single time there is some created menace that is suppose to make things magically worse for them. Its a double standard man.

It's an insult to everything black people have endured in this country that you think this is a reasonable excuse justifying the abstention of people who could have helped affect a better outcome. Idiotic. Short sighted. Stupid. Self defeating. Counter productive. Whiny. Frustrating as fuck. The President who signed the Civil Rights Act is noted for also being a regular and enthusiastic user of the word nigger. Johnson was every bit the disgusting racist that so many people tirelessly attempt to portray HRC as. But his smashing of Jim Crow and the KKK, amongst other things, ultimately meant the support he received from civil rights activists was worthwhile.

Imagine someone who voted for LBJ watching people turn their nose up at Clinton's out of context superpredator remark. "Did you hear what she said, how can we possibly vote for such a person!?" How indeed. And now we have a man who calls grown black men boys, who praised the KKK, who labeled a white civil rights lawyer a "disgrace to his race" for defending black clients and who laments that civil rights is being "forced down" white America's throats as our Attorney fucking General. What a goddamn joke. If nothing else, I hope Trump and his cabinet disabuse my generation of the idea that they have the privilege to sit out elections unless they get an ideal candidate to vote for.

You can complain to the cows come home, but the numbers speak for themselves. People aren't going to come out, in record numbers, based off of a boogeyman when they already live in hell.

We all would have loved a large turnout, but you cant really blame folks who were not inspired enough in large numbers.

 

[Cybit]

What's surprising is seeing how the percentages dropped for whites and blacks in Wisconsin and Michigan versus 2012. I'd have lost money betting "white vote increased significantly in those states" before observing the chart.

Voters in those critical states (with hindsight) just didn't seem to care as much this time around. Ohio, too.

I wonder if the overconfidence of certain projection models didn't help things.

wisconsin put in voter suppression laws between those elections that targeted the poor and minorities.

for many who only vote in presidencies and don't follow politics they likely learned for the first time that they couldn't vote without a valid state id when they went to vote, and thus couldn't vote at all because they couldn't produce such a thing that day.

even a number of people who did know of such things and tried to obtain one weeks in advance got turned down from voting due to their official license not showing up in time, and them not accepting the temp ID they were given weeks ago.

I don't know how much more stuff was going on, but that was the immediate stuff I heard.

for sure, it wasn't just voter suppression, but it still played a role in those wisconsin drops.

Problem is even if she wins WI she still loses PA and MI, which did not have those laws present IIRC

 

[spock]

Think the race issue is being overplayed. Hillary was the wrong candidate (I voted for her cause the other option was well...but I did not like her as a candidate and was all in on Bernie)

Much of the "meh" or "both suck" crowds simply did not go out of there way to vote against Trump even if they really didn't want him as POTUS. Contrast that to how many Trump fans were fired up and made sure to vote (along with R's who vote R no matter what). The population of D's who make sure they vote regardless is simply a smaller a group. R mutherfukers come out now matter what, lol.

 

[royalan]

Pretty sad.

We (and I'm talking about African American voters) need to do better before we get around to blaming anyone else for the election results.

If Sessions and Bannon were more palatable to you than Clinton and whatever she brought to the table, you probably need a history lesson.

Fuck. That.

Yeah, turn-out could have and should have been better. But the same goes for everyone. The black vote is one of the most reliable votes Democrats have.

The results of this election aren't our fault because we couldn't produce record turn-out a third time in a row. We can't always be expected to sweep up after Republican voters.

 

[Aaronology]

Complete and total conjecture,

Then again, you think Hillary bombed your home country, so why anyone is taking you seriously, I don't know.

Agreed. Sierra Blanca alone would have dealt Bernie's image a huge blow in the general. It's easy to idealize a politician who hasn't faced serious public oppo.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

It's not rhetoric. POC voters broke for Hillary in the primary in a big way.

Did minorities hate Obama in 2007? No matter how much we like a candidate, Black people will not hop on board unless we are assured that candidate can win in general. Once Obama looked like he could win, Blacks left Clinton. Minorities love Bernie, it just didn't look like he could win it so the Black vote stayed with Hillary. Neither HRC or Bernie are hated by minorities.

 

[pigeon]

My conclusion on this topic is that Hillary was a bad candidate and next time let's run somebody who wasn't a politician in 2001.

 

[mjc]

It definitely cost Hillary here in Wisconsin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/many-in-milwaukee-neighborhood-didnt-vote-and-dont-regret-it.html?_r=0

Wisconsin, a state that Hillary Clinton had assumed she would win, historically boasts one of the nation’s highest rates of voter participation; this year’s 68.3 percent turnout was the fifth best among the 50 states. But by local standards, it was a disappointment, the lowest turnout in 16 years. And those no-shows were important. Mr. Trump won the state by just 27,000 voters.

Milwaukee’s lowest-income neighborhoods offer one explanation for the turnout figures. Of the city’s 15 council districts, the decline in turnout from 2012 to 2016 in the five poorest was consistently much greater than the drop seen in more prosperous areas — accounting for half of the overall decline in turnout citywide.

The biggest drop was here in District 15, a stretch of fading wooden homes, sandwich shops and fast-food restaurants that is 84 percent black. In this district, voter turnout declined by 19.5 percent from 2012 figures, according to Neil Albrecht, executive director of the City of Milwaukee Election Commission. It is home to some of Milwaukee’s poorest residents and, according to a 2016 documentary, “Milwaukee 53206,” has one of the nation’s highest per-capita incarceration rates.

 

[Aaronology]

You can complain to the cows come home, but the numbers speak for themselves. People aren't going to come out, in record numbers, based off of a boogeyman when they already live in hell.

We all would have loved a large turnout, but you cant really blame folks who were not inspired enough in large numbers.

I am not complaining. I was taking issue with your comment and replying with my feelings on it. I think it's bullshit.

There is a lot to be learned from Clinton's failures going forward. But I don't have time for people excusing the actions of those who voted for Trump or abstained from voting for Clinton. Nov 8 was a collective fuck up, and if you sat your ass at home you have a seat at that table.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Bernie spoke out against the bill and then claims to have voted for it because if was packages with the violence against women act or something along those lines, Gaf seems to forget this all the time when trying to make an equivalence between the two when we already have a video of Bernie laying out why it was a terrible idea (in international terms, since Gaf seems to love to pretend like Bernie somehow wasn't preaching intersectional politics) and that set the tone for many.

What should he pointed out is how he uses his vote for that bill as an example of a positive in an ad or later campaign if I remember right, despite all of his comments going against similar policies all the way back to the Reagan area, which is a point of hypocrisy and a good attack on Bernie, you could also mention that Bernie came from a safe area unlike Hillary who was heavily involved in the black community which may have given him a position to grandstand on the bill while Hillary didn't have that luxury as she had dead people at her door.

But anyways, that video swung me and many others and it's probably going to stay that way.

Ugh I hate getting dragged into let's argue the Primaries again but Sanders literally also touted his vote on the Crime Bill as part of his 2006 Senate Re-election campaign under the claim of being Tough on Crime.... so yeah.

 

[Bounceounce]

Well said. Best part of this is it wasn't even her crime bill, she was first lady and didn't create it nor vote on it. She also apologized and made many platform changes to reflect her stance on the issue. Her old comment, while in poor taste, were referencing the problematic inner city gangs at the time. Meanwhile Bernie DID vote for it and said similar comments ("It is my firm belief that clearly, there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.") but received little to no backlash for it. Sucks being a female politician.

Stop being disingenuous, to quote someone else quoting Bernie and then replying with a statement:
"It is my firm belief that clearly there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.

But it is also my view that through the neglect of our government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming today tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And, Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world — and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country — and all of the executions … in the world will not make that situation right.

We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance."


You're also missing that the guy who coined the term super-predator, who was invited to the White House, was in the national press the week before Clinton used that word to a mostly white audience, saying that 150,000 children - super-predators - kids who could never be rehabilitated and were basically dead inside - that at least that many kids would need to be locked up for a LONG time - if not forever, and that was just in the coming few years.

That was the context in which she said that. Sanders on the other hand doesn't use that word - which at the time was a racist dog whistle - and instead says yeah, there's sick people in society - no shit - let's lock them up, but if you want to REALLY deal with the crime epidemic you need to invest in the youth, to give them a brighter future... the same thing he's saying all these years later.

Basically, you've missed the entire point, and you're doing it to try and somehow justify some really awful shit."

That details why you're wrong, and even without that his statement isn't as bad as Hillary's, hell he even calls the people sick, that's not calling the predators, it's a statement of sympathy.

 

[chbrevolution]

The drop in the vote more than likely came from black men in particular. One of the issues is sexism. I heard plenty of black men of various ages saying they "couldn't" vote for Hillary even if they agreed with her platform. I think that's the reason why the super predator thing really took off so they could have the "reason" to not do so. It's so stupid that there where black people advocating not to vote and that Trump was after Mexicans and Muslims and not "us". Stupidity all around during the 2016 election.

 

[freeofgreed]

Pretty sad.

We (and I'm talking about African American voters) need to do better before we get around to blaming anyone else for the election results.

If Sessions and Bannon were more palatable to you than Clinton and whatever she brought to the table, you probably need a history lesson.

No we don't. We (african Americans) have been propping this party up for decades, and even with this decline, Clinton's share of Black voters was still higher than any other ethnic group. It's everyone else who needs to do better.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Complete and total conjecture,

Then again, you think Hillary bombed your home country, so why anyone is taking you seriously, I don't know.

When we are dealing with "what if Hillary lost the primaries"?, that is an invitation for conjecture. Why do you care that I didn't vote for Hillary when she won my state? The Dems lost the election with the "fall in line, boy" mentality.

 

[kaching]

Because that is not a useful analysis.

You're right, if cynical, but what can you actually DO about that?

I'm focused on things that can actually be changed. "1/4 of the US sucks, and 1/2 doesn't care" is not a path to change anything. It's just whining.

How is that not useful analysis? It goes to the core of the problem rather than beat around the bush about it. Calling it "super complex" gives people cover for their basic callous indecency and does nothing to change anything that matters. I'm not trying to be cynical, but I don't know how we fix that...yet. What I do know is giving it cover by not addressing it head-on isn't going to help, it's only going to fester and worsen.

Analysis is generally helpful to actually changing outcomes in the future. Throwing up our hands and saying people are bad is a recipe to never make anything better.

There's nowhere in my comment that said we shouldn't analyze at all or that we should simply throw up our hands and give up.

 

[Suikoguy]

When we are dealing with "what if Hillary lost the primaries"?, that is an invitation for conjecture. Why do you care that I didn't vote for Hillary when she won my state? The Dems lost the election with the "fall in line, boy" mentality.

Odd, where did I say that? Did you even read the post?

 

[ZOONAMI]

The hillary as corrupt line of thought was always strange to me... Like really, DT isn't even paying people and hillary is corrupt?

I kept hearing from people well its not like hillarys shit doesnt stink either, countered with what stinks? Uh the emails... Ok and wheres the corruption? Can you even break down what you mean by the emails? Blank stares...

 

[Merc_]

No we don't. We (african Americans) have been propping this party up for decades, and even with this decline, Clinton's share of Black voters was still higher than any other ethnic group. It's everyone else who needs to do better.

Listen man, you're getting in the way of them trying to shift the blame to us. Think about other liberals needs here.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Just to maintain perspective, because I'm starting to think the narrative of this thread is "Clinton lost because of black people"



Black people were the one demographic that overwhelmingly shunned the GOP candidate and backed Clinton. The majority demographic of this country backed Trump, plain and simple. If less of them did, we wouldn't be where we currently are.

Of course, but everyone who didn't vote due to lack of "enthusiasm" or whatever needs to held accountable, white or black.

 

[royalan]

No we don't. We (african Americans) have been propping this party up for decades, and even with this decline, Clinton's share of Black voters was still higher than any other ethnic group. It's everyone else who needs to do better.

It's outrageous.

A disgustingly large number of white people vote for the racist who wants to take their healthcare, and that's expected. It's accounted for and forgiven.

But ohhhhh lordy, black folks don't come through with 90%+ margins and it's shame on us. The outcome of the election is on us.