lastflowers
Banned
Lmao.
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WP: Why did Trump win? More whites and fewer blacks actually voted
- Thread starter KingV
- Start date
Thankfully I'm not on the left and saw the election coming a mile away.
Coulter did
Michael more did
Even trump did
Maybe some should be reflecting on why that really is vs bs reason I'm going to have to read or hear about for the next few years.
What you mentioned is nothing new for democrats and it's one reason in general they continue to lose at important moments in time. I just have to ask are you upset gaffer really doing what you can.
So much technology yet only the political trolls, corporations, Russia, and the right want to wield it a certain way that is clearly effective. Play the game or lose the war.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Ridiculous..
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Hispanica tend to be more conservative than not. Thats always been the case. Even immigranta from mexico.
Maybe. But why is it that lower black voter turnout is the reason for the win and not Hillary running a poor campaign, not courting the white vote, or even that white voters wanted Trump? He got 60+ million votes, mainly white. The idea that it is is upto to a 12% or less minority of voters in the country and they somehow get the blame isn't really palatable to me. Want to know why Trump is President, look the majority of white men and women voters in the eyes. Don't say oh you black voters did not vote in as large numbers.
Thanks for constantly polluting the discourse
El_Tiguere
Member
Meh...
https://www.c-span.org/congress/bills/billAction/?print/1410681
I can take your BS silly Sierra Blanca issue and raise you a Clinton/Honduras/Berta Caceres. This is where the Clintons openly rig elections, and openly collude with rapacious corporations to destroy actual ecosystems...
I recall P. Diddy saying black voters should reserve their vote this election. A part of me was like you fucking idiot that might be ok in a time with Mitt "I'd probably only do the typical Republican thing and be a part of the party of voter suppresion rather than murder you in the streets" Romney. But in the time of Trump "I wouldn't rent to you if I could", Steve "totally not a klansman" Bannon and his brother beneath the white sheets having the president's ear you'd be a fucking fool. Hold your nose and get as many people to vote for her, Super predator remark and all and look at her for the imperfect friend she is.
It's really impressive how Hillary Clinton managed to do all of this as a one term SoS.
"Fuck you I got mine".
The exorbitantly rich like P. Diddy aren't effected by Trump's policies. Trump only aims to improve things for wealthy people and corporations. Pretty easy to figure out why he might take that stance.
I'll blame white voters more so though. Why do they keep voting Republican? Especially if they live in communities where it doesn't really advantage them to do so.
Edit: In any case if we had our elections on weekends, Trump probably isn't president. Voter suppression in places like Wisconsin probably can't be ignored.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
let it go or deal with someone much worse? doesn't seem that fucking difficult tbh
Maybe, just maybe, if people could stop being single issue fuck wits and could look at the grand scale of what their actions or lack of actions would have, maybe the US wouldn't have what will end up being one of the bottom 3 worst presidents ever right now.
Like all the petty shit like oh if it was Bernie instead, oh she once said super predators about us despite the fact that shes apologies for it countless times.Maybe next time you all have to vote, you can stop being so fucking childish and think about what matters in the grand scheme of things. Think about how you got a guy who never hid his shit on the campaign trail telling you how he was going to screw you over and think how swallowing whatever problem you had with a less than perfect candidate and just going out to fucking vote against a monster.
Specially in the US because sadly, who you elect has far reaching consequences to the rest of the god damn planet. I wish it didn't but it currently does.
Like all the petty shit like oh if it was Bernie instead, oh she once said super predators about us despite the fact that shes apologies for it countless times.Maybe next time you all have to vote, you can stop being so fucking childish and think about what matters in the grand scheme of things. Think about how you got a guy who never hid his shit on the campaign trail telling you how he was going to screw you over and think how swallowing whatever problem you had with a less than perfect candidate and just going out to fucking vote against a monster.
Specially in the US because sadly, who you elect has far reaching consequences to the rest of the god damn planet. I wish it didn't but it currently does.
Hang on? Didn't Hillary nearly have a record amount of votes? But Black votes were down? So I can't imagine white dem votes down much if at all??
Would love to know the figures on it.
It depends if you're talking as a % or as a raw #. Very different questions due to a growing population. She only got 48% of the vote, vs 51% that Obama got in 2012, due to a larger third-party vote share. Turnout, as a % of eligible voters, was about the same in 2012 and 2016.
EDIT: Records outside of Obama, as Hollywood says below.
Skellig Gra
Member
Not even close. Obama got about 4 million more in 2008 (69m v 65m) and about 100k more in 2012.
theignoramus
Member
Why is it up to the Black voter to save America from its George Wallaces? 13% of the country has to shoulder bulk of the moral burden for the other 85%?
Even with the reduced number, the Black voting bloc against Trump was the strongest out of any other racial demographic.
Ill continue blaming the degenerates that voted for the neo-Confederate option, thank you very much.
Fear is not a good motivator for Democrats which is why Hillary doubling and then tripling down on the Trump is terrible strategy was stupid. And there are a large contingent of minorities that want their economic status to get better.
Remember Trump improved in Romney's Hispanic numbers and percentage.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Because it's never truly white America's fault for anything. Why blame the largest group in America when you can blame smaller groups? It's simpler to blame the black vote because we're the only group in the US were more than 95% of the group votes one way. Thus any failings is the responsibility of that group.
Not really. You would've seen more young minorities come out for Bernie and perhaps some older minorities stay home. It would've balanced out. Bernie had tr advantage of actually ding appealing to Rust Belt workers.
I say this as a minority who is friends with more minorities and does political activist work.
I get what you're saying, but if you're I can't break it down into something actionable, I'm not sure what to do.
You can say "ok, we need to increase voter turnout" to address the 50%. The solutions and problems there are indeed "super complex".
Similarly, you can say "25% of the population are terrible people or at least don't care about having a terrible person as President". Also true, but you have to add a lot of complexity to actually do anything about that, because there are a bunch of reasons why people do what they do or don't.
You're reasoning is barely better than saying "were in this position because trump got more electoral votes". It's technically true, but not really something you can act on without adding more complexity.
She did present tons of policy comparisons, and fucking trounced him in the debates.
Also, I still think focusing on policy and making this a policy election above all else. The argument against Trump should absolutely have been that he's a batshit crazy malicious manbaby conspiracy theorist that does not have the emotional stability and clarity of thought or intellectual curiosity to lead and represent our country. Making this about domestic policies and funding is irresponsible.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/clinton-foundation-haiti-117368
I read that article a while ago so I dont know offhand if all my HRC grievances are covered. But from Haitian news and people that live/travel there:
- Hillary blackmailed a political candidate into dropping out of presidential elections so that the US could put their backed puppet Sweet Mickey. One political party (which the West hasn't compromised) was outright banned from participating.
- Shortly after winning Mickey praised Haiti's former brutal CIA backed Duvalier dictatorship- red flag. Rules incompetently and has a vested interest in drug trafficking.
- So much Earthquake money raised went straight to Western contractors, the tourism industry, and corrupted officials. There are still major tent cities 7 years later. International spotlight shone to help raise $ for the poor and destitute, and that went straight to the wealthy.
- She shutdown a minimum wage increase that had already passed legislatively, siding with manufacturers.
- Western groups have been drilling hard for resources. Anything found will not benefit the common Haitian.
TLDR: The West never got over 1804s slave revolt and since at least 1915 the US and other Western nations have regime changed, occupied, and looted Haiti (all while smearing the island in their media). A democratic right of self-determination is off the table for Haiti and the Clintons have been on board with the West's agenda for decades.
Clinton was clearly better for this country. I just couldn't vote for her.
The One and Done
Member
Why did Trump win? Because Hillary Clinton was an ego maniac.
yanipheonu
Member
I mean the more unhelpful but entirely possible answer is that all these chaotic influences meant that the election was always out of anyone's direct control.
I mean she is a politician ¯_(ツ
_/ ¯
The One and Done;236138535 said:
I mean she is a politician ¯_(ツ
_/ ¯
She had a nearly record margin of victory in the popular vote.
However the slavers fixed the election 200 years ago and won.
El_Tiguere
Member
Unfortunately for some liberals, one group of black people matter more than others it seems.
Any environmentalist would have sat out the election based on what Clinton did to Honduras, also.
DerangedHermit
Member
AH! I knew it, it was black people fault all along! You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for letting Trump be president.
White people working so hard to get you to have better lives and you people go and do that, smh
White people working so hard to get you to have better lives and you people go and do that, smh
/s just in case cause there's already enough shady shits showing their asses.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I don't see it as a double standard. We're in here (GAF) every day admonishing people in middle America who fucked themselves out of healthcare by voting for "economic anxiety" and against brown people, "LGBT for Trump" voters who continually get slapped with new restrictions every day, and "one of the good one" minorities who thought that they would be exempt from the travel ban and deportations.
Why can we not point out the people who thought their vote didn't matter, or worse, that Hillary was just as bad an option for the AA community? If you're not inspired to save your own ass, why should anyone else be?
If 5-10% of the AA population voted for Obama because of homerism instead of policy, that's actually a fairly significant problem.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
This is going to be the new Prop 8 isn't it
An egomaniac won because the other candidate was an egomaniac?
Makes sense
The One and Done;236138535 said:
An egomaniac won because the other candidate was an egomaniac?
Makes sense
TestOfTide
Banned
I get where you are coming from, obviously black people should not be condemned as a group for 2016 just because there wasn't record turnout of minorities in 2016. 2016's results was SPECIFICALLY the fault of rural white voters.
But I do think there DOES need to be a conversation about how to tackle voter apathy of certain groups that lean heavily towards democrats, because such a conversation could help insure that Rural White Voters aren't as easily able to outvote the urban and suburban areas in each state and district.
El_Tiguere
Member
You know the answer bud... give them something, a vision, to vote FOR (not just against, and not "just because").
You need to do better, that's what you have to do first. Black people being demotivated is something we are going to have to address without using things like what our ancestors went through and acting as if working class Black people have the time to evaluate Trump's potential cabinet members. We need to be able to motivate, educate, inspire and support our community.
Hillary wasn't as organized as Obama was. That was her weakness. You have to be able to organize. What's a great way to bring up Black voter registration? Have people at food banks that can help register people to vote. There are so many options that I could go into that Bannon and Sessions wouldn't even be a topic I would discuss.
If you want to talk about history, if the Montgomery Bus boycott wasn't well organized while providing other means of transportation for our community, it wouldn't have worked. Maybe Hillary could have taken some notes.
Lastly, I'm not taking the blame for this election. Our community isn't taking the blame for this either. This is the same thing that was said during Prop 8, somehow Black people were blamed for that even though white people were responsible. And despite everything look at our D voting margins.
I think it shows that an electoral coalition that relies on 90% plus margins of any demographic is fraught with electoral peril.
It begs to mind... what happens when republicans successfully nominate a Ben Carson? Can they shift 5-10% of the uninformed black voters over to the Republicans utilizing the same homerism? I really have no idea if that is possible, but I can tell you that would 100% be an electoral disaster for Democrats.
TestOfTide
Banned
Yes, but what that "something" is has shown to be something we don't agree on. For example, downplaying social issues on a national scale would likely turn off many affected minority groups.
I have stated multiple times in the past that Hillary spent too much of her campaign resources (particularly commercials) on attacking trump rather than making sure everyone knew about the great policy proposals of her 2016 campaign.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You honestly think no one's seeing the lower turnout that way?
I don't think it's that complicated. They don't vote because a) they're subject to systemic disenfranchisement structures like voter suppression, unjust criminal convictions, and economic pressure that prevent them from taking the time to vote, and b) they believe, not incorrectly, that both parties tend to be willing to normalize white supremacy for electoral gain.
So this seems pretty easy to solve in some ways. First, just do the Democratic platform on elections. Make voting easier, get rid of felony disenfranchisement, mandate early voting and vote-by-mail with sufficient polling stations for the population.
Second, stop normalizing white supremacy in the Democratic Party.
I actually think most of us do agree on the "something" there's a False choice we have all designed for ourselves (or rather Berners and Hillbots designed it with Russia's help) between whether we do "economic stuff" first or "racial/gender stuff" instead of doing both and talking about economic stuff to people who are about that and the racial/gender stuff to people who care about that.
If we're really going to drill down into if Obama gained an outsized portion of Black votes for simply being a viable Black candidate it is prudent to atleast see how the voting percentages in 2004 and 2008 look to 2016.
If Clinton's turn out is less than those then that is undeniably a problem. If it's above that we're back to being it debatable to varying degrees.
If Clinton's turn out is less than those then that is undeniably a problem. If it's above that we're back to being it debatable to varying degrees.
No, but I've seen several people talk about this and about poor campaigning as though there's no causal link.
shnurgleton
Member
Hillary failed to excite voters.
Trump succeeded.
Trump succeeded.
Why the hell is Sanders of all people being brought up in here? He wasn't in the election against Trump, he had already lost against Hillary months before. Considering one of the reasons he lost was the writing off of the South, his people calling black leaders and telling them that they should vote Sanders because he supports Welfare, and his own state's NAACP never having met him at all, I don't think him having actually won the primary would have worked in the Democratic favor, especially with his mountains of other negatives.
Hillary had decades of bad publicity, and the infighting from the Sanders people didn't help things. Meanwhile, as expected, the Republicans gathered their horses around Trump.
Why did Trump win? Because there are still large portions of Democrats that love to yell about how horrible the world is but don't vote for the candidate on election day. White, Black, etc.
Hillary had decades of bad publicity, and the infighting from the Sanders people didn't help things. Meanwhile, as expected, the Republicans gathered their horses around Trump.
Why did Trump win? Because there are still large portions of Democrats that love to yell about how horrible the world is but don't vote for the candidate on election day. White, Black, etc.
TestOfTide
Banned
Look I agree that voter suppression is still a big issue, but voter APATHY is still the bigger issue.
I agree that democrats should tackle voter disenfranchisement, but I think that tackling voter apathy is just as important. Voter Apathy is the reason why democrats don't vote in as many elections as republicans.
On one hand I agree that having people like Manchin kinda undermine's the democrats' message on social justice.
But on the other hand, I do want an actual 50 state strategy attempted and funded. And I want it attempted and funded in ALL 50 states and all 438 districts.
So for now I will definitely agree that democrats running in anything magenta or bluer shouldn't be running as a Joe Manchin type.
What about not making it about "faith" in the system but directed energy at the system? When the Tea Party didn't like stuff they channelled their energy into voting no matter what. Is it possible to use anger from the black communities as a fuel for voting energy in elections?
Or to put it another way, maybe Democrats should start running full-on Social Justice Warrior (and I mean that in a proud way not a demeaning way) types in areas with significant minority communities.
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