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[UberTag]

Then why do people still watch it? It's like people are trapped in some sort of abusive relationship with the WWE.

That's the million dollar question right there. I don't watch it much at all any more. Last bit of WWE programming I watched live was the Owens-Jericho Friendship Festival segment... because it was damned amazing and executed to perfection by all parties involved.

 

[The Albatross]

Remember how Tajiri got booked on the main roster? That's what Nakamura's main roster booking will resemble.

Is this a bad thing?

Tajiri was booked like a serious mid-card assassin with a crazy moveset. He won multiple mid-card titles and was rarely defeated in his important matches.

He never main evented, but how could he... He was in the WWE/WWF at a time with The Rock, Stone Cold, Mankind, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Taker, Orton, Angle, etc. I love Tajiri, but to see Tajiri go over The Rock or Stone Cold wouldn't have made sense.

 

[ReiGun]

Wrestling shows everyone here liked:

Evolve 80
Supercard of Honor XI
Joey Janela's Spring Break
NXT Takeover
literally half of this WrestleMania itself

But yep, we're just mean ol' smarks that hate wrestling and not just dudes shitting on a godawful main event.

If you don't like Roman Reigns, you're just a smark who hates wrestling unless it's between two dudes fighting in a church basement for a hot dog.

Nevermind the lost list of dudes and gals on the WWE roster this does not describe and who people like. It all comes down to Roman.

 

[half a moon]

Let's rewatch it you guys!

 

[Syder]

Then why do people still watch it? It's like people are trapped in some sort of abusive relationship with the WWE.

because when wrestling gets it right...

"Ow! MY leg!! Help me, I'm overselling!!"

I love Sammy Zayn, but he's gotta stop it with that shit. He's a legit solid wrestler who can't seem to get over because he and booking always make him look weak.

They're trying to force the Daniel Bryan booking on SZ which I can't tell if is a good thing or not.

 

[Rimfya]

Then why do people still watch it? It's like people are trapped in some sort of abusive relationship with the WWE.

Should we only watch things that we enjoy 100%?

TakeOver was awesome. Some of WM was awesome. Large parts of WM were awful.

 

[Paracelsus]

Agreed with the lapsed fan:

If you are forced to do that "I think the first half was good then the second half was bad" then the show sucked and that's it. If you go home partially satisfied, it sucked

 

[Ithil]

Being the top merch seller means shit when your merch is by far the most produced and marketed.

Punk was out selling Cena when he was hot and the company turned around and basically actively sabotaged it because CM Punk wasn't their handpicked "guy". Never mind the other fuckery involved with Punk where they denied him opportunities that came his way that would've made his "brand" bigger. They've had talent that got over organically but basically do the same thing, look at how hot Bryan was and the amount of backlash that was required before they gave in and turned it into an angle to save face. If Vince see you at a certain level he won't let you rise above it despite that brass ring bullshit and what are you going to do? Quit and risk working the indies?

Konan, Court Bauer and Mister Saint Laurent on the Punk merch story and more.
https://mlwradio.libsyn.com/episode-168-who-is-they

They did the same to Christian years ago. He sold too much so they pulled his merch in favour of more Cena.

They will actively give up on making money with merch to make fake numbers for "approved" guys instead.

 

[Heroman]

Wrestling shows everyone here liked:

Evolve 80
Supercard of Honor XI
Joey Janela's Spring Break
NXT Takeover
literally half of this WrestleMania itself

But yep, we're just mean ol' smarks that hate wrestling and not just dudes shitting on a godawful main event.

There is a NJPW show next week that will be better than this show and most of wrasslegaf will like. But lol IWC

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yes it partially is.

He hasn't improved on the mic or in the ring at all. In fact, he's gotten even more one dimensional and terrible over time. And he debuted as part of a hot stable alongside two more experienced workers in every aspect (ring and promo wise).

There is no reason why he should have remained his lame, stagnant self.

His mic and character work during this feud have been excellent.

 

[Rimfya]

picture of reigns backstage after winning


doesn't look to happy

Could be my least favourite thing about Roman in general. When he loses he doesn't angry, he's sad. Now when he wins he doesn't gloat about being The Big Dog of the Year, he's sad.

I don't like the "Imagine Stone Cold..." comparisons to 2017 wrestling but seriously, did he ever sulk after a loss or a win?

 

[TheSkullPrince]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

 

[The Albatross]

]Then why do people still watch it?[/B] It's like people are trapped in some sort of abusive relationship with the WWE.

I still watched Season 6 of the Sopranos and Season 5 of The Wire.

Part of watching wrestling, today, is like watching your favorite sports team even when they suck. Jets fans know that the Jets are going to suck this season, but they're not going to suddenly become Patriots fans.

Could be my least favourite thing about Roman in general. When he loses he doesn't angry, he's sad. Now when he wins he doesn't gloat about being The Big Dog of the Year, he's sad.

I don't like the "Imagine Stone Cold..." comparisons to 2017 wrestling but seriously, did he ever sulk after a loss or a win?

Yep. Just a really bland character. He needs to look at main event guys other than The Rock and try to make a character out of it. Also would be nice if he learned some wrestling moves instead of just strikes.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

But Wyatt's done now right? Cus at this point I feel Randy has buried the family beyond anything salvageable. I'm not saying that in the worst way, but I think the whole thing's run its course.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Agreed with the lapsed fan:

If you are forced to do that "I think the first half was good then the second half was bad" then the show sucked and that's it. If you go home partially satisfied, it sucked

Damn, I really don't wanna say that since I thought this was a lot better than 31 and 30 but I can't disagree.

 

[Toki767]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

Indie darlings like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, etc... don't alienate casual fans.

What alienates casual fans are those people constantly losing because they aren't the chosen one.

 

[Heroman]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

What casual fans, WWE drove most of them away.

 

[Ithil]

Could be my least favourite thing about Roman in general. When he loses he doesn't angry, he's sad. Now when he wins he doesn't gloat about being The Big Dog of the Year, he's sad.

I don't like the "Imagine Stone Cold..." comparisons to 2017 wrestling but seriously, did he ever sulk after a loss or a win?

He just realized now that it's his yard he has to mow the lawn, prune the shrubs, sweep the leaves up, clean up the (big) dog shit....

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

I don't like Roman, but I can enjoy a Roman match. I still maintain booking is king. Seemingly WWE creative does too which is ironically why I keep getting more Roman.

He just realized now that it's his yard he has to mow the lawn, prune the shrubs, sweep the leaves up, clean up the (big) dog shit....

jesus hahahaha

 

[ghostjoke]

No one hates wrestling more than wrestling fans.

Wrestling fans are the most optimistic people out there until one ill-fated three count. Sadly, that ill-fated three count closed the show and a career tonight and left a bitter aftertaste. Drop back a 100ish pages and there's a lot of love or go to when NXT was on.

 

[Ithil]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

AJ Styles is an indie darling. Everyone adores him, hardcore and casual, young and old, the crowds love him.

The tired narrative of "indie darling = only hardcores like them" died years ago.

 

[Professor Beef]

Agreed with the lapsed fan:

If you are forced to do that "I think the first half was good then the second half was bad" then the show sucked and that's it. If you go home partially satisfied, it sucked

That's some dumbass logic. Getting real tired of the "it's either amazing or shit" attitude.

 

[Data West]

Cena would have made so much more sense for Undertaker's final match. The old gatekeeper vs the new one. The younger audience behind Cena, the older audience behind Undertaker, Cena seeing what his near future could be in how beat up Undertaker was. Cena's character respecting Undertaker but not all sappy like Flair/HBK where it was a childhood hero or whatever.

But it was Reigns so they can do Verendus's Big Dog vs Barack Lesnar next year

 

[Syder]

Wrestling fans are the most optimistic people out there until one ill-fated three count. Sadly, that ill-fated three count closed the show and a career tonight and left a bitter aftertaste. Drop back a 100ish pages and there's a lot of love.

People were heaping praise on the show and WWE after the Tag match.

 

[GunBR]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

The casual fans like (?) Roman because WWE is pushing him and not the other way around

They could make any other wrestler loved by the casuals just putting him in the main event for 6 months

 

[Chie Satonaka]

So was taker vs Roman the antithesis of okada vs. Omega?

Well, that match is pretty much universally loved, and everyone pretty much hated Taker v Reigns, so...

 

[Sephzilla]

picture of reigns backstage after winning


doesn't look to happy

He probably knows that now he will never be able to escape those boos

 

[Bronx-Man]

What casual fans are left? Raw's been bleeding viewers for five years now, all that's left are the dudes like us that boo Reigns. Everyone else gave up on this shit years ago.

 

[Heroman]

AJ Styles is an indie darling. Everyone adores him, hardcore and casual, young and old, the crowds love him.

The tired narrative of "indie darling = only hardcores like them" died years ago.

Bret Hart was a indie darling, hell so was Mic and Eddie.

 

[Paracelsus]

That's some dumbass logic. Getting real tired of the "it's either amazing or shit" attitude.

If I watch a movie and go "oh hey the introduction was cool then there was this cool scene and then the rest was blah" then the movie sucked. That's more or less what he added, and you can't really dispute it. If you look for the silver lining of things, you're subtly admitting you're digging in a pile of shit.

 

[Hidden One]

You know they told him to be that way. From a kayfabe standpoint Reigns is an idiot. He knew what he was doing getting into the feud and he knew what would happen after he pinned Taker.

At this point. I honestly don't think Reigns gives a fuck how badly he'll be boo'd because at the end of the day he knows no matter what as long as he doesn't get suspended for drugs again, Vince will push him for the next decade as face of the company. He'll never actually turn heel but he'll still get to do heel antics like he's been doing while he continues to be pushed as face and no mater how much we bitch it'll keep on unless somehow their ratings goes to shit.

 

[Radec]

So it's gonna be Brock vs Roman again huh..

 

[Sephzilla]

That's some dumbass logic. Getting real tired of the "it's either amazing or shit" attitude.

Im with you. Programs, especially programs that are 7 hours long, can have really good parts and really bad parts. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

[cordy]

But Wyatt's done now right? Cus at this point I feel Randy has buried the family beyond anything salvageable. I'm not saying that in the worst way, but I think the whole thing's run its course.

It's weird because I heard the WWE had a big plan for Wyatt this year apparently, it's supposed to be his year and I heard he was gonna feud with Ambrose again this year. I'm guessing that Wyatt will get the title back again later on in the year.

 

[Data West]

There is no casual viewer

there are two sets of people who watch WWE, WWE fans and wrestling fans that are too lazy or cheap to subscribe to ANY OTHER streaming service

 

[ReiGun]

Well where does the WWE go from here. Most of the hardcore fans hate the main event scene. Roman being in the top spot is obviously going to get massive of amounts of hate.

But if the WWE pushes all of the indie darlings, won't that alienate casual fans?

Those aren't their only choices though.

That's what gets me twisted about this conversation. People act like it's Reigns or nothing. They have stars on their roster who have mainstream appeal. The New Day have proven over and over during the build up to Wrestlemania they can do all the mainstream media WWE requires, and they're over as fuck with the audience. Sasha and Bayley appeal to little girls and teens. As much as people make about women loving Reigns, they love Ambrose and Seth as well.

And indie darlings can also appeal to more casual fans. People loved CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. People adore AJ Styles.

WWE has other choices. They stick with Reigns because they want to. That's it.

 

[The Albatross]

But Wyatt's done now right? Cus at this point I feel Randy has buried the family beyond anything salvageable. I'm not saying that in the worst way, but I think the whole thing's run its course.

That feud has gotta be over. I think Bray will have to turn face/tweener in the coming months to move up. It's obviously a winning gimmick and he's a great character, and so for him to move up the card, he has to turn face in some way.

There is no casual viewer

there are two sets of people who watch WWE, WWE fans and wrestling fans that are too lazy or cheap to subscribe to ANY OTHER streaming service

This is narrow minded because you're in wrestling internet communities.

I had friends over tonight and we were all group texting other friends. We'll watch ROyal Rumble, Wrestlemania, and then some of us will go in and out of following Indies, but WM is still the wrestling event that brings us together. We casually follow stories over a few months.

It's like how everybody at NeoGaf hates videogames. Most of my friends who came over or watched WM tongiht thought it was good, and we laughed/enjoyed ourselves through the card.

We're not lazy or cheap to subscribe to anything else. We don't care about religiously following an Indie or Japanese territory.

 

[GunBR]

But Wyatt's done now right? Cus at this point I feel Randy has buried the family beyond anything salvageable. I'm not saying that in the worst way, but I think the whole thing's run its course.

The family will be together again in the near future

And even after losing 95% of all pay-per-view matches, Bray will cut a promo about how he's the new face of fear and everyone should be afraid of him and his family and WWE will try to make the crowd see them as a big threat

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

lol Bray Wyatt.

They did the same to Christian years ago. He sold too much so they pulled his merch in favour of more Cena.

They will actively give up on making money with merch to make fake numbers for "approved" guys instead.

It's just... Mind blowing that a publicly traded company just so willingly leaves money on the table because it might come from someone they don't want to validate or elevate. Honestly maybe it's one of those Vince things and in that case it's yet something else to look forward to when he retires. If the McMahon family didn't have like all of the voting power in the company he'd be forced out if shareholders knew better but thankfully its a business that Wall Street doesn't understand or pay attention to unless WWE starts actually losing money which at this point seems unlikely.


Alright serenewarfare I got another thing to look forward to when Vince is gone.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

So it's gonna be Brock vs Roman again huh..

Yep. Brock gonna keep that title warm for the Roman Empire when it heats up at SummerSlam! Vince is salivating at the thought right now.

 

[Rhaknar]

Again, we dont hate Roman. Well most of ism its the booking.

Look at fucking DIY v Revival v AoP. People were saying even fucking AoP were good in that match, because the booking was so good, it made sense.

And AoP is, for all intents and purposes, not a good tag team.

 

[MC Safety]

Wrestlemania could use a shorter ramp and a shorter run time.

I've stopped watching the weekly shows entirely. So I came to Wrestlemania fresh. And that was too long and too bloated.

Not everyone deserves a Wrestlemania moment. Start by excising the McMahons as featured performers. Then, get rid of the endless recaps. Finally, tell Pitbull and the Rockettes to stay at home. That's at least an hour right there, and it's not even getting exclusionary or creative.

 

[Ithil]

The casual fans like (?) Roman because WWE is pushing him and not the other way around

They could make any other wrestler loved by the casuals just putting him in the main event for 6 months

This is an underrated point that should be brought up more. It is not hard to get very casual fans to like a guy, they usually just like whichever face is pushed hard on TV at the time.

It's even easier to get kid fans to like a guy. Just have him win all the time and push him, they're used to cartoon shows where the bad guy loses every episode, why do you think they like John Cena so much? He's a colorful superhero.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

It's weird because I heard the WWE had a bit plan for Wyatt this year apparently, it's supposed to be his year and I heard he was gonna feud with Ambrose again this year. I'm guessing that Wyatt will get the title back again later on in the year.

I suppose it's possible but honestly, he lost bad here, even if it's against someone as big as Orton. The family is broken up, and his cult gimmick hasn't won him a match that matters in well, forever.

But WWE have kept him going for this long so why stop now? Maybe they'll do the same thing as always and bring the family together like nothing happened.

EDIT: Thinking about it I can agree with you guys saying it's just a face shift that's needed. Hell a single promo with 'I had a Vision, my sister wants me to stand up for the week' and maybe there's something there. Dude has a long way to go into being credible again but who isn't on the roster?

 

[cordy]

At this point. I honestly don't think Reigns gives a fuck how badly he'll be boo'd because at the end of the day he knows no matter what as long as he doesn't get suspended for drugs again, Vince will push him for the next decade as face of the company. He'll never actually turn heel but he'll still get to do heel antics like he's been doing while he continues to be pushed as face and no mater how much we bitch it'll keep on unless somehow their ratings goes to shit.

Exactly.

And I guarantee you tomorrow on Raw Reigns will come out there, say part of his speech but then get interrupted by someone and they'll lay dude out quickly saying that they're his next opponent. This company always does it. Whenever Reigns does somethign the fans hate the company quickly introduces something to take over. It's like when fans were pissed about Reigns beating Styles, Rollins immediately showed up so it's like fans forgot about it. Somebody's gonna pop up tomorrow so we'll "forget" what happened. Probably Strowman or Nakamura.

 

[excelsiorlef]

But Wyatt's done now right? Cus at this point I feel Randy has buried the family beyond anything salvageable. I'm not saying that in the worst way, but I think the whole thing's run its course.

It hasn't really dude was massively over when he won at Elimination Chamber and at the Smackdown afterwards...

But WWE is doing what they can to kill him for sure.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

For me, Wrestlemania started to tail off after the Rollins/HHH match which was awesome in itself (one of the better story told matches tonight). After that, it was just blah, and I'm not sure if it was just fatigue or what but I was just not interested in anything after that.

But still freaking hyped for the Hardys. I literally was in shock when I heard their music play. I was even okay with the New Day coming in at first.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Yes it partially is.

He hasn't improved on the mic or in the ring at all. In fact, he's gotten even more one dimensional and terrible over time. And he debuted as part of a hot stable alongside two more experienced workers in every aspect (ring and promo wise).

There is no reason why he should have remained his lame, stagnant self.

I don't hold the mic work against him. The WWE keeps trying to force him into this Cena Jr role and it doesn't work at all. Last week when he taunted the crowd and acted like a badass it was awesome. Let Reigns actually develop a character and his fan interactions would get much, much better.

 

[hbkdx12]

Then why do people still watch it? It's like people are trapped in some sort of abusive relationship with the WWE.

For me i feel like the WWE only really needs 3 elements to have a good show/match

Good wrestling, Good Booking/Promo, Good surprises/swerves

More often than not they deliver on good actual wrestling. The booking isn't all the way terrible but it could use work. The surprises and swerves could be done way better. The reason why people continue to tune in is because there's always these faint glimpses that suggest that WWE knows what they're doing (like having the hardyz return) and then they inevitably prove that they don't (ending the show and takers career on this stinker)

The main event of this year's mania literally failed across the board. There were a lot of noticeably botched spots. The booking for the match was dumb from the beginning and the run up to it was even worse. There was no good surprises or swerves. Everyone knew roman was going to beat taker. Full stop. The only question was if he was going to turn heel in the process which he didn't although if he had, all would have been forgiven So instead we're sitting talking about how shitty it was

 

[jurgen]

WM attendance of 75,245.

In a 65,000 seat arena.

With one of the largest sets WWE has ever put up.

Scott Steiner was counting tickets, wasn't he?