LordOcidax
Member
Bullshit, Is a mix of noob devs and U5 on consoles. Even on PS5 the game looks like a blurry fest, there’s no excuse. Git good devs.
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Wukong director on the delay of Xbox port directly for the first time: need couple of years optimization experience to handle the shared 10 GB RAM
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev Hardware
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Precisely because they are noobs it's more difficult for them to optimize the game for Series S.
No matter how you spin it, Series S hinders devs and Microsoft.
People asking for full multiplatform on release day 1 don't realize how difficult is to make ports for so many different platforms, and soon NS2, too. Most games will get delayed.
LordOcidax
Member
Agree with you, but is their JOB, they don’t have to blame a console for their incompetence, like i said before, even the PS5 port, is bad. They need to git good.
This is why I see MS leaving the dedicated console market as a good news.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
And good riddance. These every day, quite clearly mentally unstable people that all think they can make a podcast and "contribute" to the community are only contributing undee educated, personal takes on a plastic box.
Everyone knows I like Xbox but these guys make me feel embarrassed for liking xbox.
Imagine trying to insult a developer house when your only skill is reading twitter and trying to defend a multi trillion dolar company.
Just play fucking games and talk about the fun you are having or something.
I just hate modern society where people have been trained to think their opinion matters.
In the vast majority of subjects that you have no knowledge on...your opinion doesn't matter in the grand schemes.
Sure, share your opinion to friends or whatever but there's just something about podcasts from people that have never really earned their place(imo) bothers me.
But here i am sharing my opinion that doesn't really matter.
LordOcidax
Member
That makes zero sense when almost every third party game and first party Sony and Microsoft tittle are coming to PC too and they have to mess with a bunch of configurations… at least the Series S force some devs to optimize the game to run well on that console and as results runs better on the X and the 5, look a the Port of Witcher 3 for Switch, all the optimizations made were beneficial for the others ports. Use your brain, everything is not a war.
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saintjules
Member
They're having next gen hardware coming in a few years. If they're truly leaving it's not by next-gen.
Schmendrick
Member
Wrong....In the PC space they can simply set their min requirements to what they deem right unlike on consoles where devs are being forced to make something that`s barely working on the P5 and SX (the actual development targets) run on a toaster like the Series S.
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PeteBull
Member
Imagine switch2 sells well and by 2030(so clearly nextgen, even beyond crossgen period) it sits at over 100m units sold, publishers gonna be porting down some of the games to that ;D
LordOcidax
Member
So, by your logic every console and low end gpus needs to disappear then… Wukong port for PS5 is bad, who’s is to blame? Cmon. And yes, the Witcher 3 port force the devs to optimize more the game, and that was beneficial even for the PC version
.
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Schmendrick
Member
that happened en mass during the Wii era. Everyone wanted to be on that hype box, the game versions that came out of this are on the level of early atari-jank.
Would you mind replying to what people actually write instead of to what you imagine?
The port forced the devs to massively downgrade...
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Mahavastu
Member
No, Outlaws using the Snowdrop engine, something self developed by Ubisoft / Massive
They tried with Balders Gate 3 and failed, so they had to change the rules (dev was allowed to have Coop on Series X but not on Series S)
10GB vs 16GB is difficult... It is a huge difference.
And you see the PS5 struggeling and reaching low resolutions in 30fps, so it will be hard for Series S to reach something acceptable and playable.
LordOcidax
Member
Obvious
, but thanks to that port they found more ways to optimize more the game for the others versions.Schmendrick
Member
The made up stories you tell your kids at night must be wild, you obviously got a knack for it......Obvious
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rickybooby87
Member
I remember Riky (Probably Aaron Greenberg) saying something exceptionally troll like and dumb about how the XSS was going to be pushing the PS5 hard thanks to Velocity Architecture.
LordOcidax
Member
So the devs lie… and the improvements never existed. According to YOUThe made up stories you tell your kids at night must be wild, you obviously got a knack for it......
. Discussion ended, not going to waste my time.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Devs blaming hardware.
Jiz condom believing in an exclusive deal.
Who to believe?
Jiz condom believing in an exclusive deal.
Who to believe?
Wrong is not the same and doesn't work that way. This theory was debunk in 2019 or 2020 before or when this gen launched. Even a PC dev talked about it and said it doesn't work with the same logic as console. Also you don´t have parity or someone forcing you to meet the lowest pc specs. You as dev is free to choose what will be the minimum requirement for your game. Don't know if anyone here remember that but that one was of the defensive points of the people defending the Series S.
jm89
Member
I remember Riky (Probably Aaron Greenberg) saying something exceptionally troll like and dumb about how the XSS was going to be pushing the PS5 hard thanks to Velocity Architecture.
Schmendrick
Member
More like you have literally not even a glimpse of a speck of an idea what you are talking about, but ofc still have a strong opinion. The usual online armchair developer....So the devs lie… and the improvements never existed. According to YOU
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drganon
Member
Him and cat lady both went mia once things started going south for xbox.
Giallo Corsa
Member
Cat lady has a sock/alternate account in here, ask me how I know it...
I miss their reaction laughing emojis to my posts everytime they'd get triggered, although to be honest, Ozriel has risen up to the task lately so I'm good.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
How do you know it?Cat lady has a sock/alternate account in here, ask me how I know it...
I miss their reaction laughing emojis to my posts everytime they'd get triggered, although to be honest, Ozriel has risen up to the task lately so I'm good.
Edmund
is waiting for Starfield 7
The only ones who needs to git gud are the Xbox division at Microsoft. Bunch of useless shits.
Still in last place despite controlling and manipulating the media, lying, paying for shills, buying out entire publishers etc. Fucking embarrassing.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
Isn't it basically, you know, bitting more than they could swallow? lol
GHG
Gold Member
Not the only ones, there were several that disappeared the moment there were rumblings about Xbox making cuts to their "marketing" and ambassador programmes. DarkMage, Gavon West, The_Mike, etc, etc.
Sad state of affairs.
chilichote
Member
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
The ram issue is obviously enough.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
-xss- 10 GB GDDR6 with 8 GB @ 224 GB/s and 2 GB @ 56 GB/sThe OS does not predict, it basically defines where the memory will be allocated, it is its primary function and even one of the reasons for its existence.
In the past, on rudimentary consoles, you had to manage memory manually. Nowadays no one does this anymore, because OSes do this automatically and doing this on current hardware is very complex.
Memory will not affect performance, because the memory that requires the most speed is that of the GPU and it will hardly exceed 10 GB, as the CPU also needs memory and the slowest bus only has 3.5 GB available, so it is It is very likely that the CPU will use more than that.
In the past, Guerrilla Games demonstrated what memory usage was like in Killzone ShadowFall on PS4. Of the 8 GB, they had 5 GB free to use, as 3 GB was reserved by the operating system. Of this 5 GB, 3 GB was used by the GPU and 1.5 GB by the CPU and the rest was used for other tasks.
If we do the proportional calculation, then supposedly, in the new generation, the GPU should use around 8 GB and the CPU, 5.5 GB.
I don't like the example, because it is very discrepant. The XSX memories have a 40% difference in performance. The 970's memories have an 86% difference.
And the situations are different, as it is easier to saturate the 970's 4 GB of VRAM than to saturate the XSX's VRAM.
And even with this discrepancy, in the saturation tests of the 970's 4 GB of VRAM, it only lost 3% of performance.
Why Nvidia's GTX 970 slows down when using more than 3.5GB VRAM
Nvidia GTX 970 inaccurately stated the GTX 970 has the same ROPs and L2 cache as the 980 at launch.www.pcgamer.com
The GPU uses its portion of memory, but the CPU also needs it. The consoles' unified memory just eliminates some bottlenecks and makes it more flexible. But the operation is still the same as a PC, with each component of the system using its portion of memory (not only the CPU, but the SSD, the Bluray driver, the network components, the audio driver, the controls driver , etc.).
The point is that DDR4/5 memories have enough bandwidth for current games on PC. The XSX uses 336 GB/s for its CPU, which is more than enough and should compensate for the GDDR6 latency.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Yeah, the problem is the split pool, and it also effected the XSX which can brute force any issue anyway.
Why is MS making these bad RAM decisions in the last couple gens? It's like they haven't learned not to fuck with memory config... I mean, it would have probably worked in the past when development complexity wasn't as big as it is now, not to mention XSS slow memory is even slower than it should be even in the split pool configuration, considering the slow RAM from XSX isn't as slow compared to the fast RAM.
mayham2199
Member
The weirder thing to me is that they aren't doing what Sony does and that's just talking to devs and finding out what they want\need. Sony learned this lesson from the PS3 and it's what they do every single time now.
MacReady13
Member
Can't they put it on gamepass? Isn't that where all Xbox games are releasing? Put it on the firestick- no limitations there!!!
Schmendrick
Member
mayham2199
Member
The cloud uses Xbox Series S profiles so it wont work on that either. They should just release it for Xbox series X customers.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Cost cutting? I don't know what memory chips cost at the time.
Sooner
Member
It definitely didn't take 3 to 4 years.
mayham2199
Member
So that’s two years in a row where a goty title is delayed for Xbox. Will we get another in 2025?
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst
Member
Ah, the Xbox Series S
Eats Mothballs For Breakfast
Eats Mothballs For Breakfast
playbignbox
Member
Dev is bad. It gets even worse when compared to the recently released Stalker 2, a game in UE5 and open world, and it runs on the Series S with its due optimizations and limitations.
Maybe because they're kind of idiots?
Because just being stupid to make a shit console like the SS and accuse whoever made the best console in history, PS5 according to DEV commenting to DF, of having made shit.
He's basically so dumb that he doesn't know he's dumb.
Microsoft: We Could Have Used Variable Clocks for Xbox Series X, But We’re Not Interested in TFLOPS Numbers
"We focus on optimizing the developer experience to deliver the best possible experience for players, rather than trying to 'hunt' down certain record numbers. We've always talked about consistent and sustained performance.
We could have used forced clocks, we could have used variable clock rates: the reality is that it makes it harder for developers to optimize their games even though it would have allowed us to boast higher TFLOPS than we already had, for example. But you know, that's not the important thing. The important thing is the gaming experiences that developers can build."
Microsoft: We Could Have Used Variable Clocks for Xbox Series X, But We're Not Interested in TFLOPS Numbers
Microsoft's Jason Ronald said that the Xbox Series X could have used variable clocks like the PS5, but the company isn't looking to boast higher TFLOPS.
wccftech.com
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Well, in a culture of commentocracy its normal to be flooded with opinions. One should expect that the stupid or ignorant ones, get corrected, exposed or ridiculed. The main issue has been that these influencers, or so-called "Gaming Journalists" (people at the top of the commentary discourse) are so ignorant and have the most stupid takes which are taken by their following and then repeated online making the entire discourse fucking stupid.
and it's not an issue exclusive to the Xbox community/Influencers/shills, but the circumstances of Xbox taking L after L, creates a situation in which is impossible to spin bad news consistently almost every couple of months; the narrative gets convoluted, contradictory and perpetually negative.
Astray
Member
Jez made another post about this:
www.windowscentral.com
One thing I found interesting is Phil Spencer beginning to hide behind paywalled entities for his latest interviews, he's had interviews with Bloomberg and at least one with Stephen Totilo's Game File that I know of, but to get back to the topic at hand:
Black Myth: Wukong developers say optimizing for the Xbox Series S "would take years," begging the question if the blockbuster action game will ever come to Xbox
Microsoft previously said that "it doesn't comment on exclusivity deals" taken by its partners.
www.windowscentral.com
One thing I found interesting is Phil Spencer beginning to hide behind paywalled entities for his latest interviews, he's had interviews with Bloomberg and at least one with Stephen Totilo's Game File that I know of, but to get back to the topic at hand:
Topher
Identifies as young
Did anyone post the latest from Jez?
"Previously, Microsoft suggested to us that Black Myth: Wukong was skipping Xbox due to some form of timed exclusivity deal in PlayStation, offering the following comments unprompted to Windows Central, as well as major outlets like Forbes and IGN. I also conferred with my own sources, who confirmed that Microsoft is all up internally operating under the idea that Black Myth: Wukong took some form of timed exclusivity deal with PlayStation — for engineering support, or something along those lines. The game has received no special marketing treatment from PlayStation to that end, and neither side has confirmed or debunked whether some form of exclusivity deal was or is in place."
So Microsoft is making a massive assumption here referencing deals with others that they "can't comment on". If so, they are simply implying something may be the case but they have no idea whether it is true or not which is why they don't come out and explicitly say "Game Science has an exclusivity deal with PlayStation".
Jez also says.....
"It would seem that even if there was at some point a period of timed exclusivity, the Xbox Series S parity clause is preventing the game from arriving on Microsoft's platform. Microsoft requires developers to launch games on both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S in order to ship. The fact the Xbox Series S has RAM disparity with the PS5 and Xbox Series X has been blamed by various developers over the years for delays on Microsoft's platform. Famously, Baldur's Gate 3 was delayed on Xbox Series X|S until Microsoft allowed Larian to ship without couch co-op on the S version of the game."
www.windowscentral.com
Damn....we posted this at the exact same time. lol
"Previously, Microsoft suggested to us that Black Myth: Wukong was skipping Xbox due to some form of timed exclusivity deal in PlayStation, offering the following comments unprompted to Windows Central, as well as major outlets like Forbes and IGN. I also conferred with my own sources, who confirmed that Microsoft is all up internally operating under the idea that Black Myth: Wukong took some form of timed exclusivity deal with PlayStation — for engineering support, or something along those lines. The game has received no special marketing treatment from PlayStation to that end, and neither side has confirmed or debunked whether some form of exclusivity deal was or is in place."
So Microsoft is making a massive assumption here referencing deals with others that they "can't comment on". If so, they are simply implying something may be the case but they have no idea whether it is true or not which is why they don't come out and explicitly say "Game Science has an exclusivity deal with PlayStation".
Jez also says.....
"It would seem that even if there was at some point a period of timed exclusivity, the Xbox Series S parity clause is preventing the game from arriving on Microsoft's platform. Microsoft requires developers to launch games on both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S in order to ship. The fact the Xbox Series S has RAM disparity with the PS5 and Xbox Series X has been blamed by various developers over the years for delays on Microsoft's platform. Famously, Baldur's Gate 3 was delayed on Xbox Series X|S until Microsoft allowed Larian to ship without couch co-op on the S version of the game."
Black Myth: Wukong developers say optimizing for the Xbox Series S "would take years," begging the question if the blockbuster action game will ever come to Xbox
Microsoft previously said that "it doesn't comment on exclusivity deals" taken by its partners.
www.windowscentral.com
Jez made another post about this:
Black Myth: Wukong developers say optimizing for the Xbox Series S "would take years," begging the question if the blockbuster action game will ever come to Xbox
Microsoft previously said that "it doesn't comment on exclusivity deals" taken by its partners.
One thing I found interesting is Phil Spencer beginning to hide behind paywalled entities for his latest interviews, he's had interviews with Bloomberg and at least one with Stephen Totilo's Game File that I know of, but to get back to the topic at hand:
Damn....we posted this at the exact same time. lol
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Astray
Member
Very dumb and pathetic how he and MS are still trying to push this line, even in the face of the game director's statement on this. At this point I'm firmly convinced that their bullshit is what's making the director fuck with them like this.Did anyone post the latest from Jez?
"Previously, Microsoft suggested to us that Black Myth: Wukong was skipping Xbox due to some form of timed exclusivity deal in PlayStation, offering the following comments unprompted to Windows Central, as well as major outlets like Forbes and IGN. I also conferred with my own sources, who confirmed that Microsoft is all up internally operating under the idea that Black Myth: Wukong took some form of timed exclusivity deal with PlayStation — for engineering support, or something along those lines. The game has received no special marketing treatment from PlayStation to that end, and neither side has confirmed or debunked whether some form of exclusivity deal was or is in place."
So Microsoft is making a massive assumption here referencing deals with others that they "can't comment on". If so, they are simply implying something may be the case but they have no idea whether it is true or not which is why they don't come out and explicitly say "Game Science has an exclusivity deal with PlayStation".
Jez also says.....
"It would seem that even if there was at some point a period of timed exclusivity, the Xbox Series S parity clause is preventing the game from arriving on Microsoft's platform. Microsoft requires developers to launch games on both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S in order to ship. The fact the Xbox Series S has RAM disparity with the PS5 and Xbox Series X has been blamed by various developers over the years for delays on Microsoft's platform. Famously, Baldur's Gate 3 was delayed on Xbox Series X|S until Microsoft allowed Larian to ship without couch co-op on the S version of the game."
Black Myth: Wukong developers say optimizing for the Xbox Series S "would take years," begging the question if the blockbuster action game will ever come to Xbox
Microsoft previously said that "it doesn't comment on exclusivity deals" taken by its partners.
So eve
Like at some point just move the fuck on. It's just one game.
Also, I did not notice this slick attempt at a u-turn from Jez:
Great minds think alike lol.
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Starbuck2907
Member
Why not just let it run on Series X servers and let series S play it via cloud? That’s really what they should do in these cases.
Astray
Member
Phil Spencer can't handle looking like a dumbass (again).
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
The Xbox Series Potato strikes again. I’m still struggling to understand why the idiots at MS are so fixated on split RAM especially after it did the XB1 no favors last gen.
Topher
Identifies as young
This is why smart corporations don't talk about shit like this. It can come back and bite them in the ass. Folks keep wanting Sony to weigh in. Why would they? Instead of playing bullshit PR games, Sony helped ensure the game was running on PlayStation and didn't say a word about it or even promote the game. Action over words.
Yep.
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