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[btkadams]

how does ableton live 9 run on yosemite? last i heard (about a month ago), everything worked except the browser (for effects, instruments, clips, etc). is it working properly yet?

edit: i asked on twitter and apparently the broken browser issue is still the same.

 

[Futureman]

It just makes no sense. What's favorite contacts doing in an app switcher? Besides you get the same thing if you tap the phone icon. I have no problem if anyone likes it - it's a small extra feature after all, but it just seems bafflingly out of place.

We'll I guess to Apple it's not "app switcher" but "recently used items."

So Dark Mode still doesn't change the UI of windows yet? Weird. We know it's coming.

Why of you say that?

 

[Fuchsdh]

We'll I guess to Apple it's not "app switcher" but "recently used items."



Why of you say that?

Well, the stuff that you'll notice being in dark mode the most is your windows, and given that pro apps have a dark interface already it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility.

 

[LyleLanley]

So do we have more transparent user accounts now? (that "Alex" selector.) Multi-user libraries? Or what.

I only have the one account on my computer but for your information when I click on that I get a drop down menu with Wish List, Redeem, Account Info and an option to sign out.

 

[The Real Abed]

Why of you say that?

It only made sense. Plus there were some resources in some apps for a while. Maybe they've changed their mind. Whatever. I guess with the name change, it's solidified that it'll just be those two for now. I guess a dark UI overall would require a lot of preparation. Especially from third parties.

I will say Dark Mode with just the menubar and dock looks really nice with the graphite theme and dark grey selection color. Try it everyone! It looks pretty nice. (The blue normal theme is way too bright when using dark mode.)

I just wish more of my menubar utilities would update already.

I am almost tempted to just install this on my main partition now, but if the PB is coming within the next week, then I can wait. What I've seen so far is pretty stable. More so than previous OS versions.

Safari Observations:

The Address box is no longer strict in its location and can be moved. And filling one side of the bar with icons won't compress it to an unusable size. Really nice. About time. It doesn't expand to fill the whole bar if you remove the expanding spaces though. It just sits on the left side and the icons all crunch up there. I guess it's good though because it lets non-fullscreen users have someplace to grab. I just wish the + button didn't appear in the toolbar when in Tab Overview mode. It makes no sense to be there and throws off muscle memory by moving icons around.

Also, it still doesnt remember your zoom setting. Come on! This is basic web browser shit! Guess I get to stick to QuickStyle for now.

UI Observations:

Tabbing to controls has a visual animation to draw your eye to which one was focused.

Calculator finally looks like its icon. Which is to say it matches the iOS calculator and the new sidebar widget one. Orange and grey.

 

[Guess Who]

A very minor change to a feature no one cares about: Dashboard has new Yosemite-ier +/-/> buttons.

Still looks totally out of place otherwise though!

 

[mattiewheels]

I wish there was a tip telling people not to force-close apps.

I tell people all the time that there is no need to force-close apps. That it takes more energy to restart the app, and you should be configuring the app to use less power from settings, but they never listen. So dumb.

Frankly, thanks, Android.

I'm weird, I access my apps from the app switcher instead of home screen, and I like to keep my app switcher clean besides the apps I'm currently using.

 

[Appleman]

how does ableton live 9 run on yosemite? last i heard (about a month ago), everything worked except the browser (for effects, instruments, clips, etc). is it working properly yet?

edit: i asked on twitter and apparently the broken browser issue is still the same.

Ableton used to crash for me on beta 3 when opening a project, it no longer does that now but I haven't had a chance to test it further

 

[mollipen]

I gotta say. I prefer the look of the thin black outlines around buttons in iOS 7. Not a fan of this shaded area over translucency.

I'm not sure if I've even been in as big of a love/hate relationship with Apple's design senses as I am right now. This is yuck.

 

[hirokazu]

It just makes no sense. What's favorite contacts doing in an app switcher? Besides you get the same thing if you tap the phone icon. I have no problem if anyone likes it - it's a small extra feature after all, but it just seems bafflingly out of place.

I don't really care what it's doing in the app switcher if it's convenient for the user. Heck, if you just call it the multitasking screen instead of the app switcher, then there's no reason why it shouldn't be there. Going into the phone or contacts app requires a lot more steps for people who contact often.

 

[hirokazu]

I just wish more of my menubar utilities would update already.

For the menubar at least, Apple probably should have created naming scheme guidelines for the the image assets (like how Retina display graphics end in @2x), so that it will load say the @dark asset instead of the regular one if Dark Mode is enabled, and if that asset isn't present, it'll just fall back on the regular asset but with the colours inverted.

It may not work 100% with all menubar icons, but it would be a good solution for icons that aren't or will never get updated.

 

[The Real Abed]

I really wish they'd thicken the lines on the WiFi waves. They're way too thin. And you can't change them because the resources are nowhere to be found in the "AirPort.menu" file. (Yes it's still named AirPort even though internally in the OS it's called WiFi) I'd switch them with the old icons which are much easier to tell how many empty waves there are. (Though Dark Mode does make it easier to tell they're solid)

 

[Juice]

lol, it was so stupid.
"So this app switcher screen looks a bit empty here at the top. Let's see what completely unrelated feature can we cram in there..."

I disagree with all the recent/fav hate. It's awesome if you're like me & 80% of your calls and texts go to three people

 

[hirokazu]

DP4 sure is running smooth and good in the brief time I've played with it, especially compared to the earlier ones.

Dark menu bar and Dock looks good, but I don't think I could get used to using it when app windows themselves aren't also dark. Yikes, the disparity! :x

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Beta 4 fixed the WPA2 Enterprise login bug.

 

[LCfiner]

I'm not sure if I've even been in as big of a love/hate relationship with Apple's design senses as I am right now. This is yuck.

I feel similarly. Sometimes the flat design works, sometimes, I feel the implementation lacks that last step (or two... or ten) of polish.

question to anyone with itunes 12. Is the "get info" window still modal? is the itunes window inaccessible if the get info window is open?

thanks!

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Have the back/forward swipe gestures been reinstated for the Finder in any of these betas?

 

[fireside]

I feel similarly. Sometimes the flat design works, sometimes, I feel the implementation lacks that last step (or two... or ten) of polish.

eh, aqua was the same. it wasn't until about snow leopard that it really started to look decent overall. not that that is a justification for their design decisions, just that those last ten steps of polish seem to take a while for apple to do

i loaded a screenshot of the new control center on my phone and i think it works though

 

[LCfiner]

eh, aqua was the same. it wasn't until about snow leopard that it really started to look decent overall. not that that is a justification for their design decisions, just that those last ten steps of polish seem to take a while for apple to do

i loaded a screenshot of the new control center on my phone and i think it works though

You have a point. I jumped in with Macs with 10.4. It was 10.5 when they got rid of brushed metal and consolidated a lot of the window views. So I got in after they had already gone through 4 iterations of UI polish and only dealt with brushed metal for less than a year (lucky me .

this new flat look is only in rev 1 (Mac) and rev 2 (iOS). Still, there are some areas that I think could be better (thinking specifically of the rounded white toolbar buttons with no borders on Mac)

 

[infiniteloop]

Is the "get info" window still modal?

thanks!

Yup. same with login windows, error windows. DONK DONK DONK

 

[Lord Error]

We'll I guess to Apple it's not "app switcher" but "recently used items."

Even then, favorites are out of place as they don't have to be recently used. I'm just glad that someone high enough at Apple agreed that the feature wouldn't make sense to a lot of people, since they added an option to remove it, given how stingy they are with UI configuration options.

 

[LCfiner]

Yup. same with login windows, error windows. DONK DONK DONK

sigh. nuts... I was hoping they'd finally make a floating palette for track info. that would be a much better solution for me. at this rate, we'll have carbon-era modal info windows in 2030.

thanks.

 

[badcrumble]

I feel similarly. Sometimes the flat design works, sometimes, I feel the implementation lacks that last step (or two... or ten) of polish.

question to anyone with itunes 12. Is the "get info" window still modal? is the itunes window inaccessible if the get info window is open?

thanks!

Yup. same with login windows, error windows. DONK DONK DONK

Yep, though it's been altered and is nicer in some ways.

The modal-window shit really sucks. ESPECIALLY when, for open/save dialogs and errors, OS X introduced Save Sheets and Error sheets in... OS X 10.0. Just about every single modal window in all of OS X should either be turned into a window-specific sheet, an inspector, or a Notification Center alert.

App-wide or system-wide focus stealing should be reserved for only a very, very few things that *truly* need your attention immediately.

 

[sc0la]

I wish there was a tip telling people not to force-close apps.

I tell people all the time that there is no need to force-close apps. That it takes more energy to restart the app, and you should be configuring the app to use less power from settings, but they never listen. So dumb.

Frankly, thanks, Android.

Eh. This is just as much Apples fault as androids. The app switcher should be limited to the 8 or so most recently used apps.
Having an endless row of 50 apps you haven't used in weeks just reinforces the compulsion to force close them all. If it's not on "recent" then the system can be more aggressive in closing old tasks.

 

[jts]

Anyone wanna vouch for the stability of the beta 4 on the iPhone 5? Kinda want to jump in...

 

[btkadams]

Can someone explain to me how Photostream works now? I didn't do the upgrade to iCloud Drive and iCloud Photo Library and I can't seem to find my Photostream in the Photos app. Where is it? Should I be upgrading to iCloud Drive and iCloud Photo Library?

 

[jstripes]

sigh. nuts... I was hoping they'd finally make a floating palette for track info. that would be a much better solution for me. at this rate, we'll have carbon-era modal info windows in 2030.

thanks.

iTunes is gonna be stuck like this until the Mac and Windows versions are developed separately. Which is to say, it's always gonna be like this.

 

[Dany]

Viewing songs in Album view is pretty. Kinda like ios8.

 

[GWX]

Viewing songs in Album view is pretty. Kinda like ios8.

Yup, that's the best part about iTunes 12's look. I love the new "get info" window as well.

However, due to it being a Carbon app and whatnot, the performance is still dreadful (window resizing, scrolling - specially in full screen, in artist view with a bunch of albums in the list, etc). They should just rebuild iTunes from scratch, maybe separate it into multiple app: one for iOS management/syncing, one for shopping, one for managing and playing media. It's a shame that the many services it represents and the Windows burden are keeping iTunes in the past.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Yup, that's the best part about iTunes 12's look. I love the new "get info" window as well.

However, due to it being a Carbon app and whatnot, the performance is still dreadful (window resizing, scrolling - specially in full screen, in artist view with a bunch of albums in the list, etc). They should just rebuild iTunes from scratch, maybe separate it into multiple app: one for iOS management/syncing, one for shopping, one for managing and playing media. It's a shame that the many services it represents and the Windows burden are keeping iTunes in the past.

How much of iTunes is actually still Carbon, though? It's been rewritten and iterated on so many times, my understanding was it just wasn't 100% cocoa and was more custom.

 

[GWX]

How much of iTunes is actually still Carbon, though? It's been rewritten and iterated on so many times, my understanding was it just wasn't 100% cocoa and was more custom.

I don't really know the specifics. I know it has to be a Cocoa app since it's a 64-bit process, but I read about it having Carbon underpinnings, evident by the modal dialogs such as the Get Info window. What I do know, for sure, is that the performance is terrible and it should go through a major rewrite. Also, for some reason, iTunes 12 doesn't have any kind of transparency, which goes against the design language of Yosemite. It can't possibly be a stylistic choice, unless the iTunes team is that disconnected from the design team.

 

[btkadams]

Can I buy iCloud storage at the awesome prices announced at WWDC if I upgrade to iCloud Photo Library in beta 4? I can't handle the current shitty prices.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I don't really know the specifics. I know it has to be a Cocoa app since it's a 64-bit process, but I read about it having Carbon underpinnings, evident by the modal dialogs such as the Get Info window. What I do know, for sure, is that the performance is terrible and it should go through a major rewrite. Also, for some reason, iTunes 12 doesn't have any kind of transparency, which goes against the design language of Yosemite. It can't possibly be a stylistic choice, unless the iTunes team is that disconnected from the design team.

We'll have to see what iTunes for PC looks like.

 

[hirokazu]

If you bring up Control Centre on iPhone in landscape view... It doesn't have the weirdest-ass shading. o_0 On the other hand, it's also easier to see how things are organised in the landscape version without having dividers.

Can someone explain to me how Photostream works now? I didn't do the upgrade to iCloud Drive and iCloud Photo Library and I can't seem to find my Photostream in the Photos app. Where is it? Should I be upgrading to iCloud Drive and iCloud Photo Library?

It seems like it's stil there on the backend of things (photos still get synced and show up in recently added) but you can no longer view the Photo Stream album. It's really stupid, I couldn't post a photo that was clearly there because I had no access to it in a third party app.

Let's see what they decide to do with it closer to GM...

 

[badcrumble]

iTunes is gonna be stuck like this until the Mac and Windows versions are developed separately. Which is to say, it's always gonna be like this.

Yup, that's the best part about iTunes 12's look. I love the new "get info" window as well.

However, due to it being a Carbon app and whatnot, the performance is still dreadful (window resizing, scrolling - specially in full screen, in artist view with a bunch of albums in the list, etc). They should just rebuild iTunes from scratch, maybe separate it into multiple app: one for iOS management/syncing, one for shopping, one for managing and playing media. It's a shame that the many services it represents and the Windows burden are keeping iTunes in the past.

Yup.

I'm pretty sure iTunes still has some legacy code from SoundJam MP (remember that?). Kinda ridiculous.

I don't think it'll always be like this, though. Apple's totally revamping the way they handle photo library storage and syncing - with any luck we'll see the same thing happen with the rest of the sync process as iCloud improves over time. Turning music-playing into a system-level service with a standalone app, like is happening to photos, would be pretty fucking great.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I don't really know the specifics. I know it has to be a Cocoa app since it's a 64-bit process, but I read about it having Carbon underpinnings, evident by the modal dialogs such as the Get Info window. What I do know, for sure, is that the performance is terrible and it should go through a major rewrite. Also, for some reason, iTunes 12 doesn't have any kind of transparency, which goes against the design language of Yosemite. It can't possibly be a stylistic choice, unless the iTunes team is that disconnected from the design team.

Since the 10-series rewrite, I've yet to hear anyone prove that it still has Carbon code is my point. I'm not saying it doesn't, but we should exactly be repeating it anymore if there is no evidence that it does.

 

[badcrumble]

Since the 10-series rewrite, I've yet to hear anyone prove that it still has Carbon code is my point. I'm not saying it doesn't, but we should exactly be repeating it anymore if there is no evidence that it does.

I blame the problem right now on the fact that it's pretty clearly coded incredibly closely in parallel with the Windows version, which means there's very little chance for Apple to break out (on the OS X version) music, video, syncing, and store functionality into fully separate apps/services. It's *sort of* justified for the Windows version to be bloated (and if you're using Windows + iPhone, you're frankly better off sticking 100% to iCloud and avoiding sync altogether if at all possible because iTunes for Windows is so crummy).

BUUUUT, Photos for OS X is a very promising start.

It's definitely true that, at the very least, Apple's not properly dogfooding with iTunes, which is why iTunes 11.3 was still old-Aqua styled even on Yosemite.

 

[The Real Abed]

Hopefully Apple will start a public beta for Photos when Yosemite and iOS 8 are released.

Also, I hope the Yosemite PB is released by next monday. It seems to make sense and keeps in line with the monday centric releases of late. Except instead of 2 weeks, it'd just be one.

I so want to just say screw it and install Yosemite now. If only temporarily (I can restore) just to see what apps I still have that might need updates. Surprisingly Photoshop CS3 still works for me. Which is good, because I still don't feel Pixelmator can replace it for me yet.

 

[badcrumble]

Hopefully Apple will start a public beta for Photos when Yosemite and iOS 8 are released.

Also, I hope the Yosemite PB is released by next monday. It seems to make sense and keeps in line with the monday centric releases of late. Except instead of 2 weeks, it'd just be one.

I so want to just say screw it and install Yosemite now. If only temporarily (I can restore) just to see what apps I still have that might need updates. Surprisingly Photoshop CS3 still works for me. Which is good, because I still don't feel Pixelmator can replace it for me yet.

I'm kinda curious to know what the intermediary solution for accessing Photos in the Cloud on your Mac will be.

 

[jstripes]

I don't really know the specifics. I know it has to be a Cocoa app since it's a 64-bit process, but I read about it having Carbon underpinnings, evident by the modal dialogs such as the Get Info window. What I do know, for sure, is that the performance is terrible and it should go through a major rewrite. Also, for some reason, iTunes 12 doesn't have any kind of transparency, which goes against the design language of Yosemite. It can't possibly be a stylistic choice, unless the iTunes team is that disconnected from the design team.

You'd think iTunes would be the perfect app to dogfood Swift with.

 

[badcrumble]

You'd think iTunes would be the perfect app to dogfood Swift with.

I'd like to think so, but (a) iTunes is HUGE and (b) you generally still need Objective-C to get a lot of more complex stuff done.

iTunes uses something totally different from AVKit to drive audio and video, too.

There is, like, no dogfooding with iTunes.

Still better than the terribad iPhoto though (can't wait for that piece of shit to be gone).

 

[jstripes]

I'd like to think so, but (a) iTunes is HUGE and (b) you generally still need Objective-C to get a lot of more complex stuff done.

iTunes uses something totally different from AVKit to drive audio and video, too.

There is, like, no dogfooding with iTunes.

Still better than the terribad iPhoto though (can't wait for that piece of shit to be gone).

Well, there's one of the problems, then. OS X contains robust media playback capabilities. Probably the most robust of any OS out there. Any app that doesn't hook into them is just a waste.

iTunes doesn't need to be huge. It's huge because it's huge and no one wants to fix it. Like anything Adobe. That, and, again, the Windows version is holding it back.

As for Objective-C, programs written in Swift can still use Obj-C where needed.

 

[fireside]

speaking of things apple should fix, i wish apple would fix history searching in safari. it's a horrible pain in the butt to find just about everything

 

[The Real Abed]

I really really hope the Zombie* Finder bug I've had since Mavericks is fixed in Yosemite. It is a horrible pain in the ass when the Finder decides to just become part of the netherworld and refuses to either relaunch or even quit because the OS thinks it doesn't exist all because I un-minimized a window or tried to quit it. I'm tired of sudo shutdown -r now-ing all the time.

*A Zombie process is one which is neither alive nor dead. The application may have been quit, and its process removed, but it persists and takes up resources and sits unresponsive. It cannot be killed because it has already been killed and no longer exists in the process registry. But it is also not alive because you cannot use it. The only way to rid yourself of one is to reboot, which usually requires a forced shutdown via the Terminal or power button.

 

[infiniteloop]

Public Yosemite beta out tomorrow:

As promised, Apple is releasing a public beta of its latest Mac operating system, OS X Yosemite. Apple told me during a meeting earlier this week that the public beta would be released tomorrow, July 24.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2014/07/23/os-x-yosemite-public-beta-to-be-released-july-24

same as what as released Monday to devs, but dev build will be updated more frequently.

 

[Deku Tree]

Public Yosemite beta out tomorrow:



http://www.loopinsight.com/2014/07/23/os-x-yosemite-public-beta-to-be-released-july-24

same as what as released Monday to devs

Yay!!! My MBA is ready!!!

 

[ramyeon]

So what's the current beta build of Yosemite like so far as stability goes? Not sure whether I should risk putting it on my Macbook Pro or not since it's my primary machine.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

I have Windows installed on Parallels. What will this mean when i install the beta? Will I lose my virtual machine?

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

So what's the current beta build of Yosemite like so far as stability goes? Not sure whether I should risk putting it on my Macbook Pro or not since it's my primary machine.

Yosemite has been pretty solid since the first beta. Beta 4 is great and that must be why apple is making it public tomorrow

 

[LCfiner]

I’m really looking forward to trying it out. Mainly for the new safari and spotlight stuff. Also curious to see how the UI elements look on both my retina macbook and external, low PPI 1080p screen.