Support NeoGAF

[Anth0ny]

Ziggler's last chance was the Survivor Series match where Sting debuted. The crowd was hot for him during that match. But that lead nowhere. Then there was the Royal Rumble when the crowd popped big time for his entrance, then he was just thrown out by Kane/Big Show within a minute. WWE has screwed up his push everytime, even when the crowd was for him.

that's why I don't think he's dead weight. crowd pops big for him every time and even though his matches are spot fests at times, I still think he's one of the better, more exciting wrestlers in ring that they have right now.

I'd rather watch a Ziggler match than a Roman Reigns match any day of the week.

 

[OnPoint]

Thinking about it I kind of think the cage match Ziggler had against Cena is where I started to lose interest in him. It's not entirely Ziggler's fault because that match was as CENAWINSLOL as it gets. But Ziggler hit Cena with like 3 different finishers (and Cena ate Big E's finisher too) and still lost to a single AA. In terms of kayfabe, Ziggler's character cant get shit done. His two biggest career wins were against a one legged Alberto Del Rio and needing Sting's help to pin Rollins.

You give the guy a new finisher, a few new moves, maybe let him get a bit of a chip on his shoulder and let him start beating some people clean. Ziggler could definitely be big if they let him.

 

[UberTag]

A lot of you people and your folks under the Dead Weight category are next level bonkers. The Big Show? Ryback? Ryback sells a ton of merch. Show is always there to pretend to be a credible opponent.

I don't perceive Big Show to be dead weight. Dude would make for one hell of a color commentator. Saxton is dead weight.

 

[Hasney]

I don't perceive Big Show to be dead weight. Dude would make for one hell of a color commentator. Saxton is dead weight.

Eh, for the money he's on, you could probably get Nash on commentary.

 

[njr]

Ziggler's last chance was the Survivor Series match where Sting debuted. The crowd was hot for him during that match. But that lead nowhere. Then there was the Royal Rumble when the crowd popped big time for his entrance, then he was just thrown out by Kane/Big Show within a minute. WWE has screwed up his push everytime, even when the crowd was for him.

I wouldn't really say it was his chance to begin with in the first place. Looking at the booking from the months prior, that SS spot was meant for Reigns, but he was injured. The following week they don't even address what Ziggler did at the PPV. Then after the few weeks HHH and Steph came back, "fired" him for a few weeks to kill his momentum, Reigns came back in the picture, and the rest is history.

 

[hamchan]

A lot of you people and your folks under the Dead Weight category are next level bonkers. The Big Show? Ryback? Ryback sells a ton of merch. Show is always there to pretend to be a credible opponent.

Then make your list and put it out so we can judge it and see what isn't bonkers. I don't have access to how much merch each wrestler is selling. I'm only judging it purely as a spectator and who I like seeing.

 

[Blackstarhat]

Seth Rollins title run is boring as shit that's why the ratings are low.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Maybe make their special moves or finishers stand out more. You know, like in anime how they yell it out before doing the move.

And the move echoes when they say it too, like in Digimon.

More seriously, they could have a plot where the McMahon's are bought out by some younger dude (like not super young) that has the same charisma as a younger McMahon but also wrestles. But he also never loses because he cheats his way out (like a pure heel).

 

[Sephzilla]

Anyone who doesn't perceive Big Show as dead weight is straight up crazy. The guy has been the biggest waste of space for years now and the guy gets no reaction from crowds anymore.

 

[DMczaf]

Real talk,

Are Kane and The Undertaker the only characters Vince has come up with that were a success from day 1?

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Then make your list and put it out so we can judge it and see what isn't bonkers. I don't have access to how much merch each wrestler is selling. I'm only judging it purely as a spectator and who I like seeing.

Dead Weight: Alex Riley, Tamina Snuka, Daniel Bryan

Push to the Moon: Seth Rollins, David Otunga

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Anyone who doesn't perceive Big Show as dead weight is straight up crazy. The guy has been the biggest waste of space for years now and the guy gets no reaction from crowds anymore.

What if he reads this? Did you ever think about that? Just because he's a WWE Superstar means he doesn't have feelings all of a sudden?

 

[Sephzilla]

Real talk,

Are Kane and The Undertaker the only characters Vince has come up with that were a success from day 1?

Does Lesnar count?

Otherwise, I dunno, I think you might be right. Most of the other big all-time greats usually started off with a different gimmick before getting to their famous one.

 

[DMczaf]

What if he reads this? Did you ever think about that? Just because he's a WWE Superstar means he doesn't have feelings all of a sudden?

If he's reading this:

Fuck you Big Show you fat fuck.

If Nick Van Exel also reads GAF:

Fuck you you big headed fuck

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Real talk,

Are Kane and The Undertaker the only characters Vince has come up with that were a success from day 1?

Hulk Hogan won the title less than a month after debuting.

It would be highly debatable to say that Vince came up with that character though.

 

[FStubbs]

Does Lesnar count?

Otherwise, I dunno, I think you might be right. Most of the other big all-time greats usually started off with a different gimmick before getting to their famous one.

I think you're selling the Bastion Booger short.

 

[funkystudent]

Seth Rollins title run is boring as shit that's why the ratings are low.

Everything that isnt The New Day is boring. THATS why the ratings are low.

 

[newdayrocks]

SNEAK PEEK: A brand new ‪#‎TableFor3‬ featuring Natalya - WWE Universe, Tamina - WWE, and WWE Divas Champion Charlotte - WWE airs TONIGHT on WWE Network, right after WWE NXT!

The heck? Who wants to watch that?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Real talk,

Are Kane and The Undertaker the only characters Vince has come up with that were a success from day 1?

Million Dollar Man is the only other successful vince-creation that springs to mind.

 

[DMczaf]

Million Dollar Man is the only other successful vince-creation that springs to mind.

Pretty sure the only reason Vince came up with that gimmick was to create a slave...er..."servant" named Virgil to rib on Dusty Rhodes.

#Carnies

 

[UberTag]

SNEAK PEEK: A brand new ‪#‎TableFor3‬ featuring Natalya - WWE Universe, Tamina - WWE, and WWE Divas Champion Charlotte - WWE airs TONIGHT on WWE Network, right after WWE NXT!

The heck? Who wants to watch that?

It's a trio that makes sense. Divas with famous wrestler fathers.
They can talk about growing up in the business and how they set out to follow in their footsteps.

For those of you calling out Tamina for being dead weight, she's 37 (only half a year younger than Layla) so I have to imagine she'll be retiring soon.

I wouldn't really say it was his chance to begin with in the first place. Looking at the booking from the months prior, that SS spot was meant for Reigns, but he was injured. The following week they don't even address what Ziggler did at the PPV. Then after the few weeks HHH and Steph came back, "fired" him for a few weeks to kill his momentum, Reigns came back in the picture, and the rest is history.

Pretty much this right here. The WWE actively and intentionally sabotages their talent when they get over when they're not supposed to and haven't been hand-picked as "the guy". And then they wonder why nobody gives a shit when Cena goes on vacation during football season.

They want everyone to be just "sort of over" and to not stand out. Cesaro's support gets a little soft so they acknowledge the Cesaro section a bit this week. Two weeks from now they'll be burying him again and someone else will get a little push. It's all about keeping everything in balance. Except for the jobbers who barely show up at all or whom Creative completely forgets about outside of house show tours and the part-timers, Cena, Rollins and Reigns who keep their momentum. Plus, Bray who keeps getting main event programs despite losing in all of them except to D.Brine and Ambrose.

 

[Anth0ny]

It's a trio that makes sense. Divas with famous wrestler fathers.
They can talk about growing up in the business and how they set out to follow in their footsteps.

they're gonna talk about Snuka?

 

[funkystudent]

They can all talk about visiting their dads in jail.


What did Jim Neidhart do a few years ago that got him in hot water again?

 

[Onion_Relish]

Push:

Juventud Guerrera, Alex Wright, Dean Malenko, Supercrazy

Bury:

La Parka, Konnan, Elix Skipper, Ming

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Charlotte: So Tamina how did you get into the business?
Tamina: [Redacted]

 

[UberTag]

Thank you Seth's leg for ensuring the ever-complacent WWE won't be able to dog it for another predictable road to WrestleMania as I had feared if they had you retain at Survivor Series and milked Roman's coronation until next April.

Seth's leg is the true MVP of 2015. You get all the Slammies. Get well soon, buddy.

<reads up on the latest from the debacle in Dublin>

Oh damn it, Seth's leg. You had ONE job and you fucked it all up. No Slammies for you. <sigh>

 

[Mahonay]

Thank you Seth's leg for ensuring the ever-complacent WWE won't be able to dog it for another predictable road to WrestleMania as I had feared if they had you retain at Survivor Series and milked Roman's coronation until next April.

Seth's leg is the true MVP of 2015. You get all the Slammies. Get well soon, buddy.

<reads up on the latest from the debacle in Dublin>

Oh damn it, Seth's leg. You had ONE job and you fucked it all up. No Slammies for you. <sigh>

Wishing injury upon someone. Classy.

 

[UberTag]

Wishing injury upon someone. Classy.

I'm not wishing injury upon anyone.
I'm reacting negatively to an injury scare that already happened.

That's not at all the same thing. I can express disappointment at the lost booking opportunity this would have presented... unfortunate incident or not.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

Wishing injury upon someone. Classy.

where were you when someone said "fuck you Big Show you fat fuck"

 

[Forkball]

Big Show still has value. He's alright on the mic. He should only be doing the following though:

Jobbing
Tag team
Job in tag team

 

[NoRéN]

where were you when someone said "fuck you Big Show you fat fuck"

.

But as soon as some calls Kevin Owens fat...

 

[Trojan X]

Does Lesnar count?

Otherwise, I dunno, I think you might be right. Most of the other big all-time greats usually started off with a different gimmick before getting to their famous one.

I don't think Lesnar counts. He was supported by Paul Heyman from day-1.

 

[GRW810]

Ziggler's last chance was the Survivor Series match where Sting debuted. The crowd was hot for him during that match. But that lead nowhere. Then there was the Royal Rumble when the crowd popped big time for his entrance, then he was just thrown out by Kane/Big Show within a minute. WWE has screwed up his push everytime, even when the crowd was for him.

This is what I don't understand. WWE is a business, and businesses need to make money. They make money by making their product to fans, who are essentially customers.

If you have a guy who is getting pops left, right and centre, why the he'll wouldn't you shove him to the forefront? I've never understood Vince's logic in cherry picking top stars. If I ran a sandwich shop and I was getting a bucketload of requests for a particular filling, I wouldn't force people to have cheese and pickle instead.

Ziggler has been on the brink of exploding arenas yet he ends up in a mid-card love triangle feud to nowhere.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

This is what I don't understand. WWE is a business, and businesses need to make money. They make money by making their product to fans, who are essentially customers.

If you have a guy who is getting pops left, right and centre, why the he'll wouldn't you shove him to the forefront? I've never understood Vince's logic in cherry picking top stars. If I ran a sandwich shop and I was getting a bucketload of requests for a particular filling, I wouldn't force people to have cheese and pickle instead.

Ziggler has been on the brink of exploding arenas yet he ends up in a mid-card love triangle feud to nowhere.

He has no personality and no motivation. He cannot tell a story. This is where he always falls flat. He is poison to existing storylines. He needs to go. Just because he can bump doesn't mean people care about what or why he does what he does. He's a big nothing.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Push:

Juventud Guerrera, Alex Wright, Dean Malenko, Supercrazy

Bury:

La Parka, Konnan, Elix Skipper, Ming

Hold on, you can't bury La Parka OR Meng. Meng would murder your ass. Can't be done.

Juvi was the juice and still is, and Alex Wright is a wonderful man.

 

[Mahonay]

Big Show still has value. He's alright on the mic. He should only be doing the following though:

Jobbing
Tag team
Job in tag team

Big Show is awesome whenever he does commentary. Wish he could land that spot.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I don't think Lesnar counts. He was supported by Paul Heyman from day-1.

Everyone was. Everybody in the back was practically drooling when they first saw Brock.

 

[KingBroly]

He has no personality and no motivation. He cannot tell a story. This is where he always falls flat. He is poison to existing storylines. He needs to go. Just because he can bump doesn't mean people care about what or why he does what he does. He's a big nothing.

This is what happened to Ziggler last year after SS:

- Got his IC Title back at TLC in a match that made a lot of people cringe
- Lost his IC Title to Wade Barrett
- Got fired because LOLCENA
- Got hired back because LOLCENAWINS
- Tossed out like a jobber by Big Show and Kane in 2015

Not really the definition of keeping a guy strong.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

This is what happened to Ziggler last year after SS:

- Got his IC Title back at TLC in a match that made a lot of people cringe
- Lost his IC Title to Wade Barrett
- Got fired because LOLCENA
- Got hired back because LOLCENAWINS
- Tossed out like a jobber by Big Show and Kane in 2015

Not really the definition of keeping a guy strong.

His problem. They gave him a huge Survivor Series angle and he fucking bungled it because he's a worthless cunt.

 

[DMczaf]

Fuck Ziggler

He has never stolen a god damn show.

 

[Sephzilla]

His problem. They gave him a huge Survivor Series angle and he fucking bungled it because he's a worthless cunt.

I'm not a huge Ziggler fan but the big stuff that happened immediately after Survivor Series wasn't his fault. I don't see how it's Zigglers fault that Vince and creative basically retconned Survivor Series a few weeks later in an angle Ziggler wasn't even involved in. The fallout from Survivor Series was Ziggler being another victim of everything needing to revolve around John Cena.

 

[Mahonay]

Fuck Ziggler

He has never stolen a god damn show.

http://youtu.be/MKqtFqpRLEk

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I'm not a huge Ziggler fan but the big stuff that happened immediately after Survivor Series wasn't his fault. I don't see how it's Zigglers fault that Vince and creative basically retconned Survivor Series a few weeks later in an angle Ziggler wasn't even involved in. The fallout from Survivor Series was Ziggler being another victim of everything needing to revolve around John Cena.

How did Ziggler's character respond to any of this? It didn't? Because he has never had any sort of character. He exists to job, and when he doesn't job, nobody knows WHY he's here.

WHY did he "steal" Lana? I don't know. Do you know? I don't think anyone does.
WHY was he the Sole Survivor? I don't know. Nobody does.

He is nothing.

 

[Cagey]

http://youtu.be/MKqtFqpRLEk

To be fair to Dog Ziggler, that was the single loudest moment of any pro wrestling show I've attended.

 

[Marvel]

That was a great moment.

 

[Violence Jack]

http://youtu.be/MKqtFqpRLEk

I remember that night. I think a lot of those cheers were also attributed to the fact that Del Rio was boring as shit, and the crowd was beyond tired of WWE trying to push him as a face Champion. Nonetheless, that was a great moment and the pop for a heel Ziggler was insane. Raw used to be full of great moments like this.

 

[CreeperBlocks]

Dead Weight:
Alex Riley - Yes, he's still on the roster.
Big Show - It's time.
The Usos - Their theme song is pretty cool?
Roman Reigns - It is not going to happen.
Tamina - I feel like at this point I'm picking on Polynesia but damn they're pretty bad.

Push:
Cesaro - He's so strong. Inspiring.
The European Union - Trios are in, these guys make a good one.
Damien Sandow - He can make pretty much anything work.
Fandango - I am not even a real journalism.
Dean Ambrose - Approaches CM Punk levels of charisma.

Old af:
Sting

HES STILL in WWE?


HOW?

 

[Menome]

Damien Sandow - He can make pretty much anything work.

.

 

[Sanjuro]

Fuck Ziggler

He has never stolen a god damn show.

Do people still love Dolph Ziggler more than life?

 

[KingBroly]

How did Ziggler's character respond to any of this? It didn't? Because he has never had any sort of character. He exists to job, and when he doesn't job, nobody knows WHY he's here.

WHY did he "steal" Lana? I don't know. Do you know? I don't think anyone does.
WHY was he the Sole Survivor? I don't know. Nobody does.

He is nothing.

Lana chose him, not the other way around. Creative fucked that up to high hell, and hurt Lana tremendously. The only way they could bury Rusev was to call him out on his engagement, due to him being completely awesome.

He was the sole survivor because Vince forgot Reigns was injured when the match was made, because it was supposed to be him. Throughout that whole build, Ziggler was the one the authority targeted. They wanted him to join, he refused, he got murdered and his belt stolen.