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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years

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P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
It's pretty common throughout history. Remember Flair is a 16x champ, and he held that shit forever in the '80s. Usually the good guys win and get a couple of months before they lose it and the chase is on again. There's just no interesting chases going on right now.
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jmdajr said:
Ain't nothing wrong with it. Folks would be upset if Reigns was champ month after month. No win situation it seems.
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Anth0ny said:
it's all about the chase man

the moment roman wins that title at mania over the superheel brock lesnar will be the greatest wrestlemania moment of all time. 150,000 fans in unison on their feet crying in joy
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Except they usually have at least one major title on a face. We've got all of them on heels and have since Del Rio came back.

As for the product itself, they need a new composer in immediately. Nearly every guy's music sounds identical. I generally only watch PPVs and I honestly can't tell anybody's apart. Go watch 80s/90s and there's a huge difference. Each song pretty well encapsulated the character and persona of the wrestler. Now, it's generic metal.
 
T

tj hazuki

Member
jmdajr said:
It's not like some of these guys have been around forever. We do have new faces.
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Lets be real though. Neville, Tyler Breeze etc ain't exactly going to be main event level talent? Those guys even though have been around forever in the wrestling business will be in the uppercard level more so then the fresh faces we have right now.
 
B

bill0527

Member
I haven't recognized WWE as a wrestling company for a couple of years now.

It starts and stops with god-awful commentators who are overproduced to the point where calling the wrestling action is a super inconvenience that just gets in the way of other shit they are trying to sell to you - video games, energy drinks, merch, the WWE Network, and social media hits.

Nobody in their right mind can honestly believe that three hours of what is mostly a commercial for other shit, can pass as a sustainable form of entertainment for any length of time.

And this is just how the product is produced - just the production end of what we see. I haven't even gotten to the awful booking, writing, and the lack of anything at all interesting in what is supposed to be the actual product.

Vince McMahon has put himself into this corner and his ego is going to make him go down with the ship. Over the last 5-8 years he has become beholden to sponsers and shareholders and the company cannot risk doing anything remotely creative or risky because they take a chance on pissing the aforementioned off, and losing revenue streams.

The life cycle of this type of entertainment has clearly peaked and is now on the downhill slide.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
Y2Kev said:
Steve Austin should come back and run the show. His podcast is more entertaining than raw.
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Most things are more entertaining than RAW.

Austin has said how he would run things very differently if he was in charge, top to bottom. He doesn't like getting too deeply involved because of the current company direction. They had him on a few weeks ago for a WWE 2K16 backstage permotional bit, and he expressed how he wasn't happy with how 100 percent scripted the whole thing was. And yeah it was horrible.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
bill0527 said:
The life cycle of this type of entertainment has clearly peaked and is now on the downhill slide.
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Where are you folks getting this from? Gut feeling? The Network is one of the top OTT internet destinations, and their goofy developmental brand sold out Barclays in Brooklyn. People want good wrestling still.

They had a 10% drop in viewers in a single week. This isn't a sign of a broad trend. This just means what's currently going on sucks.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
I do think the switch to PG wasnt the major issue. Sure they had some growing pains with that switch but I think most of that has passed.


The CM Punk "summer of punk" push is the best example I cant think for a example of everything wrong with the company.

Punk was hot as hell. He was lightning in a bottle and the world was watching. And what do they do? Have Triple H beat him clean, refuse to do a rematch to put the young star over and then spend a year with him as champion but never actually in the main event because Cena squashing evil foreigners was the focus.


WWE has had spouting the "wins and losses dont matter" idea for a while which is hilarious because when Cena lost 1 match and his merch sales took a dip they immediately put him back into full squash mode with his feud with Kevin Owens a few months ago.


They have forgotten how to get use storylines and feuds to make people connect with fans. Now the only way people get over is though random luck or pure talent. (Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, Punk, Sasha Banks) and history has come to show getting over without the approval of WWE creative is a one way ticket to be treated like dirt for the fordable future.

They have spent a year trying to make people like Roman Reigns and its failed every single time. Not because he is bad, but because the creative push behind him is incredibly off putting and out dated.
 
Paracelsus

Paracelsus

Member
The Reigns push failed because even the marks are becoming smarks, and when what's about to happen is in your face people are quick to turn on the deal, like Batista vs Randy.

There's also the fact the guy you spent 30 bucks for a t-shirt on is a god today, off the show after three losses in a month just because someone woke up in no mood that day. There's no way to build anything from hysteria.
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
The Cena US Title challenge might be some of the best Raw content of the year.

IC Belt has been a bit of a mess but it's better than previous years. It looks good on Kevin Owens.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Punk was hot as hell. He was lightning in a bottle and the world was watching. And what do they do? Have Triple H beat him clean, refuse to do a rematch to put the young star over and then spend a year with him as champion but never actually in the main event because Cena squashing evil foreigners was the focus.
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When I read posts like this, I just think of how Daniel Bryan won at Mania 30 and within weeks every ounce of steam was gone. And you can blame the feud with Kane all you like, but the truth is that Bryan's heat was in the case. When he had the gold, no-one gave a shit. Punk was the same. Because there's nowhere for them to go.
 
I

Ithil

Member
DeathyBoy said:
When I read posts like this, I just think of how Daniel Bryan won at Mania 30 and within weeks every ounce of steam was gone. And you can blame the feud with Kane all you like, but the truth is that Bryan's heat was in the case. When he had the gold, no-one gave a shit. Punk was the same. Because there's nowhere for them to go.
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Oh please.

He got a feud with KANE, where he was made to look like a geek running away from Kane's Halloween antics. Blaming him for that and claiming it's proof he can't be a champion is bollocks.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
If you pointed a gun at my head I wouldn't be able to tell you who the IC champ was right now.


Ryback had it. Did Owens ever get it or does Ryback still have it?
 
R

real_slime

Banned
WWE drpping to TNA's one time neighbourhood in Ratings City is pretty intense. It may be time for them to do something about this. The only question is, do they crack under the pressure, or do they become the diamond we always hoped they would be?
 
H

Hasney

Member
DeathyBoy said:
When I read posts like this, I just think of how Daniel Bryan won at Mania 30 and within weeks every ounce of steam was gone. And you can blame the feud with Kane all you like, but the truth is that Bryan's heat was in the case. When he had the gold, no-one gave a shit. Punk was the same. Because there's nowhere for them to go.
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bryankanechoke.gif


Yeahhhh. No.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Ithil said:
Oh please.

He got a feud with KANE, where he was made to look like a geek running away from Kane's Halloween antics. Blaming him for that and claiming it's proof he can't be a champion is bollocks.
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To which I'd argue that he went along with it. The dude's 'I won't politic' attitude is charming, but counter-productive. If you want to be the man, you have to sporadically tell Vince he's an idiot and refuse to do stupid shit.
 
K

Killing_Joke

Member
Bryan had the belt for a month. RAWs viewers never hit the 2's with Bryan or Punk as champ. So who exactly are the people who didn't give a shit? Punk was the first face champ that actually got pops and sell Cena like merchandise numbers. Bryan had 70k people cheering along with him at Mania which hasn't been done in years. Keep in mind he was over 2 years before that and the audience had to force their hand to actually give him a shot.

Both were booked like shit. Both had shitty title runs. If we're seriously going to pick on Punk and Bryan as duds then we all might as well give the fuck up because there isn't a wrestler out there that has the talent nor the personality to get over like them. Just look at how Cena/Orton have been booked the last decade. No one has gotten anything close to the protection they had.

Just think how amazing the feuds Bryan/Punk could have had with Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Owens, Ziggler, Rusev, Wyatt, Lesnar, etc. And no bullshit one offs. A good 3-4 month solid feud with proper booking. But no we get stuck with Cena, Orton, Kane, and now Sheamus in 2000-fucking-15.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
The overall treatment of Punk/Bryan is going to be looked back at in 10 years with a huge "what the hell were they THINKING?" in the exact same way that Starrcade 1997 is looked at.
 
S

Son Of D

Member
funkystudent said:
Punk was hot as hell. He was lightning in a bottle and the world was watching. And what do they do? Have Triple H beat him clean, refuse to do a rematch to put the young star over and then spend a year with him as champion but never actually in the main event because Cena squashing evil foreigners was the focus.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Cena vs Laurinaitis main event a PPV over Punk's title defence?
 
M

Malvingt2

Member
CM Punk walking out did hurt the WWE even tho a lot of people might not agree with such. They have yet to find anyone to fill Punk spot... They screwed him over and now ratings are just meh.
 
Z

Zach

Member
I enjoy popping in here every once in a while and see you dudes slamming the trash commentary and shilling and booking and entrance themes. Not enough camerawork slamming, though.
 
Alcibiades

Alcibiades

Member
Haven't watched seriously since the nWo era. The tail end when it was the nWo Black and White (hated the WolfPac and loved and still love Hogan).

Only way I'll watch again is a similar storyline - where Hogan plus a bunch of all-stars turn bad and "take over."

When I really love a wrestler/storyline, or really hate a wrestler/storyline, I'll watch. And I LOVED the nWo and all the twists and turns. Also I loved to hate the nWo opponents, whether it was DDP, Sting, or "The Warrior." Everything since the late 90's has been ho-hum. Don't love or hate just boring wrestlers all around. Only Undertaker has sort of held my interest from afar now and then.

They gotta do characters again, and leave as much as possible back stage and hidden. Maybe the internet killed wrestling, but back then it was all about big characters and big surprises. There wasn't 24-7 backstage and day-to-day coverage.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Son Of D said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Cena vs Laurinaitis main event a PPV over Punk's title defence?
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Yep.

I think Punk only actually main evented 4 PPVs over his year+ long reign - 2 of them were against cena, and 1 of them Cena was off the card.
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
Say what you will about Daniel Bryan, but I was at that Wrestlemania and my god the atmosphere was electric. Every single person in that building was there to see him win the title. Nobody gave a shit about anything else on the card (including Undertaker/Brock until he lost). I went to plenty of WCW and WWF shows in the late 90s when both were red hot and I've never seen that kind of energy at a wrestling show. It was like that the entire weekend leading up to it too. 75k people all there to see one thing and one thing only.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
Alcibiades said:
Haven't watched seriously since the nWo era. The tail end when it was the nWo Black and White (hated the WolfPac and loved and still love Hogan).

Only way I'll watch again is a similar storyline - where Hogan plus a bunch of all-stars turn bad and "take over."

When I really love a wrestler/storyline, or really hate a wrestler/storyline, I'll watch. And I LOVED the nWo and all the twists and turns. Also I loved to hate the nWo opponents, whether it was DDP, Sting, or "The Warrior." Everything since the late 90's has been ho-hum. Don't love or hate just boring wrestlers all around. Only Undertaker has sort of held my interest from afar now and then.

They gotta do characters again, and leave as much as possible back stage and hidden. Maybe the internet killed wrestling, but back then it was all about big characters and big surprises. There wasn't 24-7 backstage and day-to-day coverage.
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the kind of storyline you're asking for is pretty much impossible at this point. hogan's too old, everyone he ran with is crusty and ancient, and the few legit superstars that the WWE has built up have gotten fed up with their crap and left or been hurt.

there's nobody with that kind of impact to be able to do it. if cena were to return and invade as heel, he'd be cheered louder than he's ever been cheered before because smarks have been wanting his heel turn forever.
 
S

Striker

Member
Killing_Joke said:
Bryan had the belt for a month. RAWs viewers never hit the 2's with Bryan or Punk as champ.
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He (Punk) had low overruns as champion (2012) and were the lowest of any champion since 1997. He was not much of a draw as champion overall. Bryan did much better in this regard.
 
Alcibiades

Alcibiades

Member
Nekofrog said:
the kind of storyline you're asking for is pretty much impossible at this point. hogan's too old, everyone he ran with is crusty and ancient, and the few legit superstars that the WWE has built up have gotten fed up with their crap and left or been hurt.

there's nobody with that kind of impact to be able to do it. if cena were to return and invade as heel, he'd be cheered louder than he's ever been cheered before because smarks have been wanting his heel turn forever.
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Yeah I've heard of Cena being a good guy and kids loving him - so that would be something that MIGHT get me interested, but there needs to be big drama and big surprises, as well as familiar faces like Rock, Steve Austin, etc... for people that have been gone for the past 10 years.

One thing that appealed to be about nWo was seeing big names and big characters all go bad at once. Million Dollar Man, Macho Man, Mr. Perfect, Bret Hart, etc... - These were legends and superstars that had their own characters and personas separate from nWo. Then they join Hogan and Diesel and Razor Ramon and just shock the wrestling world.

At that point you got fans invested and booing and backyard arguments. Hogan is being booed by all the fans, but then builds up an pro-nWo heel fanbase that loves to see cheating, chaos, and these superstars succeed as bad guys.

I guess it starts with characters - IRS, Million-Dollar Man, Tugboat, Hogan, Jake the Snake, Legion of Doom, Undertaker, Yokozuna, MachoMan, Jim Duggan, etc... Nothing has managed to maintain by interest like the characters back in the day. Maybe it is just me growing up or maybe the storylines are stale in comparison, but no one except Undertaker stands out over the last 10 years or so to me.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
again, what you're asking for is 100% impossible to do. there is no competing company on the level of WWE, there are no stars on the level of the top guys on your list. i'm also not so sure why you just want to see the same thing again outside of some nostalgia kick. there has been great stuff before and since the nWo. there's also been worse.

and to be fair, outside of Undertaker/Jake/Macho, everyone else on your list sucked
 
Alcibiades

Alcibiades

Member
Nekofrog said:
again, what you're asking for is 100% impossible to do. there is no competing company on the level of WWE, there are no stars on the level of the top guys on your list. i'm also not so sure why you just want to see the same thing again outside of some nostalgia kick. there has been great stuff before and since the nWo. there's also been worse.
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Yeah I guess a repeat wouldn't work especially without the superstar characters to lend legitimacy. But in that case, they need to get creative and start building up some characters. It'll take years to do but they gotta start somewhere. Wrestlers with personality, quirks, and some sort of hook or costume. And then take it to the extreme.

I wonder if maybe the presentation talent is lacking. Back then I loved buying into the dialogue, threats, and back-and-forth that happened on camera, but everything the last 10 years when I've tuned in seemed really, really fake. Too much overacting and trying to remember what they were gonna say. Of course deep down we all questioned if wrestling was "real", but talented wrestlers had you "buying in" even if just on Monday nights. Fake or not the talent back in the 90's grabbed you and didn't let you go.

Maybe the internet and 24-7 coverage is at fault, but then WWE needs to work to keep everything under the lid except on event nights. Make everything a complete surprise so people have a reason to turn in.
 
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