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[Spirit of Jazz]

Have you not been watching the last year or something

(not that I would blame you)

Have you been watching for the last year?

Because Cena making the US title a thing ended up being all the good looking upcoming/slightly over talent losing to him including Owens getting the Cena classic "beat me once in a meaningless non-title match on a non-pvp then you'll lose to me clean twice in the exact same match on PPV in title matches to show your one win was a fluke." Then he dropped the belt to fucking Alberto in a nothing match with no build and sodded off so he wasn't there to put people over when a loss wouldn't cost him a title and he still had the heat of beating the best talent on the roster.

The US title means nothing again and Cenas booking was just as bad as it always was with the exception of him not being sold as an underdog.

 

[Alcibiades]

and to be fair, outside of Undertaker/Jake/Macho, everyone else on your list sucked

heh maybe as wrestlers, but I remember booing when Yokozuna threw Macho Man out at Royal Rumble, and cheered when Hogan took Million Dollar Man/IRS's briefcase after a tag team match and started throwing money into the crowd...

Even with just average wrestling talent, the characters were fun to see and you'd love 'em or hate 'em. Now I just think "meh" don't really care either way.

 

[Kaiterra]

Oh please.

He got a feud with KANE, where he was made to look like a geek running away from Kane's Halloween antics. Blaming him for that and claiming it's proof he can't be a champion is bollocks.

And the heat was far from off. The feud may have sucked but that garbage Extreme Rules match was fun and had good reactions. And Bryan was still hot enough that they were afraid to take the belt away from him despite his injury. And then there was still enough heat there even afterward that they managed to focus it into getting fucking Brie Bella over.

 

[Anth0ny]

people have been saying for years that their reliance on cena and part timers is going to bite them in the ass

now here we are. not only is cena out, but a TON of other high tier performers are out with injury at the moment. there is ZERO star power because all they care about is getting reigns over. and he's not over. so you're left with nothing


ROMAN 2.16

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Have you been watching for the last year?

Because Cena making the US title a thing ended up being all the good looking upcoming/slightly over talent losing to him including Owens getting the Cena classic "beat me once in a meaningless non-title match on a non-pvp then you'll lose to me clean twice in the exact same match on PPV in title matches to show your one win was a fluke." Then he dropped the belt to fucking Alberto in a nothing match with no build and sodded off so he wasn't there to put people over when a loss wouldn't cost him a title and he still had the heat of beating the best talent on the roster.

The US title means nothing again and Cenas booking was just as bad as it always was with the exception of him not being sold as an underdog.

But that incredibly crisp springboard stunner that finishes off allcomers???

 

[Futurevoid]

As a returning fan who came back around the time of Wrestlemania 30 after abandoning the WWE during the whole Katie Vick/Kane storyline - my issue with the current product outside of the obvious booking issues (lack of story build up, characters worth a damn, etc,) and the abhorrent commentating...

- Predictability. Honestly, I don't read any of the wrestling news sites. Nor am I terribly privy to the back stage goings on but there's almost no drama to anything that happens in the ring. Sheamus cashing in at Survivor Series was so telegraphed with the running time of the final match-up, it meant zero. When was the last time a title changed on Raw? Having been a fan straight through the 80/90's, I remember a time when both WCW and WWE would have meaningful matches on Monday Night for the big titles and it never lessened the impact of title changes during the PPV's - would be it be so awful as to have a world title change happen on Raw?

- Why does Smackdown exist? Seriously - it serves no purpose.

- The production value is so...vanilla. Remember the PPV set designs back in the day? You had crazy moving hooks swaying back and forth. Big fists breaking through the front set, etc. Each show had a "mood" and "feel" that was distinct. PPV's in particular. Now, outside of Wrestlemania - everything feels like Raw. They literally just add different color LED's, a new splash on the Titantron and call it a day. There's very little distinction between the "big" shows and the stuff that shows up every week on TV. For some that may not matter but for me, it's a big reason why PPV's feel like just another episode of Raw more often than not.

- Fuck three hour RAW. Seriously, just fuck it. I don't know how anyone can sit through three hours of it regardless of its quality. It's too much content to fill and it lessens the quality of the show overall as they try to fill the time. I'd LOVE if the show went back to a two hour time format but I understand there's lots of money involved in keeping that three hour format.

There's more that I could get into on the booking side that just boggles my mind and its not all just a nostalgia trip or the Attitude Era as there was plenty of shit booking then as well. So many of these guys on the roster feel like CAW's from a videogame to me and none are allowed to develop a personality seemingly. When guys are on the verge of breaking through (Cesaro is a great example) - they get put into some squash match that just completely kills their momentum (Big Show vs Cesaro prior to the Brock PPV). I don't get it!

 

[Plinko]

Owens has it.

He's terrible on the mic. Just awful.

Plus, he's probably the fattest guy on the roster right now.

 

[Mahonay]

He's terrible on the mic. Just awful.

Plus, he's probably the fattest guy on the roster right now.

Joke post?

 

[BearPawB]

Joke post?

I think Owens is really stilted.
He...spaces....out his....words
Like he really has to think about each one.

I don't think his mic work is bad. But it isn't anything special either.

- Fuck three hour RAW. Seriously, just fuck it.

I really think this is the biggest problem. I don't want to watch anything for 3 hours.
They feel the need to fill in this massive time slot, so they put all this filler and bleh in.

The first hour should be dark matches for the live audience. then "RAW" starts.

Only leave room for things that matter. Actual progression. Not everyone has to appear ever week if the week to week stories are strong.

They need to start acting like they are creating TV rather than creating an MMA Fight Night

 

[kirblar]

Owens having to be called up early was a bad thing, he needed the time there to keep working on his weight/training, as its something that will be holding him back otherwise.

His biggest strength, like Sasha, is all the little things he does. The details matter, and he nails them.

 

[Showaddy]

He's terrible on the mic. Just awful.

Plus, he's probably the fattest guy on the roster right now.

Wut? 95% of the roster are complete dribblers compared to Owens. How does anyone actually watch the show and think this.

 

[DMczaf]

This best promos are always the WWE.com exclusive ones. Ambrose, New Day, and Owens shine so hard in those ones. Especially Ambrose.

 

[Son Of D]

go ahead, read that out loud

I can feel the anger from the internet fans reading that. Finally get that Punk vs Bryan match for the title and Cena/Laurinaitis (with Cena losing) closes the show.

- The production value is so...vanilla. Remember the PPV set designs back in the day? You had crazy moving hooks swaying back and forth. Big fists breaking through the front set, etc. Each show had a "mood" and "feel" that was distinct. PPV's in particular. Now, outside of Wrestlemania - everything feels like Raw. They literally just add different color LED's, a new splash on the Titantron and call it a day. There's very little distinction between the "big" shows and the stuff that shows up every week on TV. For some that may not matter but for me, it's a big reason why PPV's feel like just another episode of Raw more often than not.

There's this as well. To me the spectacle and big deal they made out of Summerslam this year was diminished a bit to me when I saw it had the same Raw set. For something that's meant to be their second Wrestlemania, their big blockbuster of the summer, it's a big let down.

 

[Gonzalez]

Owens having to be called up early was a bad thing, he needed the time there to keep working on his weight/training, as its something that will be holding him back otherwise.

His biggest strength, like Sasha, is all the little things he does. The details matter, and he nails them.

Naaaah... It actually looked like he was starting to gain the weight back by the next set of NXT tapings he was involved in.

 

[RBH]

As a returning fan who came back around the time of Wrestlemania 30 after abandoning the WWE during the whole Katie Vick/Kane storyline - my issue with the current product outside of the obvious booking issues (lack of story build up, characters worth a damn, etc,) and the abhorrent commentating...

- Predictability. Honestly, I don't read any of the wrestling news sites. Nor am I terribly privy to the back stage goings on but there's almost no drama to anything that happens in the ring. Sheamus cashing in at Survivor Series was so telegraphed with the running time of the final match-up, it meant zero. When was the last time a title changed on Raw? Having been a fan straight through the 80/90's, I remember a time when both WCW and WWE would have meaningful matches on Monday Night for the big titles and it never lessened the impact of title changes during the PPV's - would be it be so awful as to have a world title change happen on Raw?

- Why does Smackdown exist? Seriously - it serves no purpose.

- The production value is so...vanilla. Remember the PPV set designs back in the day? You had crazy moving hooks swaying back and forth. Big fists breaking through the front set, etc. Each show had a "mood" and "feel" that was distinct. PPV's in particular. Now, outside of Wrestlemania - everything feels like Raw. They literally just add different color LED's, a new splash on the Titantron and call it a day. There's very little distinction between the "big" shows and the stuff that shows up every week on TV. For some that may not matter but for me, it's a big reason why PPV's feel like just another episode of Raw more often than not.

- Fuck three hour RAW. Seriously, just fuck it. I don't know how anyone can sit through three hours of it regardless of its quality. It's too much content to fill and it lessens the quality of the show overall as they try to fill the time. I'd LOVE if the show went back to a two hour time format but I understand there's lots of money involved in keeping that three hour format.

There's more that I could get into on the booking side that just boggles my mind and its not all just a nostalgia trip or the Attitude Era as there was plenty of shit booking then as well. So many of these guys on the roster feel like CAW's from a videogame to me and none are allowed to develop a personality seemingly. When guys are on the verge of breaking through (Cesaro is a great example) - they get put into some squash match that just completely kills their momentum (Big Show vs Cesaro prior to the Brock PPV). I don't get it!

Well said.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You folks are using a lot of words to describe the root of what we're all feeling: it's just boring. We don't really care about who's champ, how long Raw is, how good anyone on the mic is, etc. Those are all details that get overlooked if the show is just entertaining. But Raw is 3 hours of terrible TV, and PPVs feel like Raws.

 

[bill0527]

Where are you folks getting this from? Gut feeling? The Network is one of the top OTT internet destinations, and their goofy developmental brand sold out Barclays in Brooklyn. People want good wrestling still.

They had a 10% drop in viewers in a single week. This isn't a sign of a broad trend. This just means what's currently going on sucks.

I'm not talking about pro wrestling in general.

What I'm talking about is the way in which WWE produces, delivers, and creates it. People are not going to tune in and watch the same badly produced shit every week. The proof is in the pudding. People are not going to go watch at the live events, and that is being reflected in current attendance. Its so god awful that most house shows, they are moving people from the cheap seats down to the lower levels and drawing the curtains on the upper deck.

The way they are producing their shows and the way in which they are creating content is unsustainable. The product is as bad now as its ever been and the point is that WWE can't really do much about it. They can't go back to the attitude era, and they can't let their wrestlers have any freedom on the mic because they can't take a chance on pissing off their shareholders or advertisers. Everything has to be sterilized for mass consumption in the politically correct era. And that's boring. It sucks.

 

[TheXfactor]

That was the night TNA laid all their cards of the table. Raw had the return of Bret Hart and his first confrontation with Shawn Michaels and Vince since the Montreal Screwjob. TNA had Styles/Flair vs. Abyss/Hogan (in what turned out to be a horrible match), the debut of Jeff Hardy, the debut of RVD, and a Sting heel-turn.

All that, and TNA never was as good as it was before Hogan joined and fucked everything up.

no, tna had the debut of hogan, jeff hardy, and aj/angle match. your are thinking when they permanently went to mondays.

 

[FyreWulff]

- The production value is so...vanilla. Remember the PPV set designs back in the day? You had crazy moving hooks swaying back and forth. Big fists breaking through the front set, etc. Each show had a "mood" and "feel" that was distinct. PPV's in particular. Now, outside of Wrestlemania - everything feels like Raw. They literally just add different color LED's, a new splash on the Titantron and call it a day. There's very little distinction between the "big" shows and the stuff that shows up every week on TV. For some that may not matter but for me, it's a big reason why PPV's feel like just another episode of Raw more often than not.

Yep, this is a huge part of it. Go look at the clip of Flair returning to WWE after WCW died. Look at how alive and 'interested' that crowd looks.. partly because they're not flooded into homogeny with a hard red or blue light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK94KEoFcjU

And Kevin Dunn's camera direction is known as "fast food directing". They're killing their own product with shit direction and making their commentators not actually commentate but just be mouthpieces for Vince.

 

[Anth0ny]

Yep, this is a huge part of it. Go look at the clip of Flair returning to WWE after WCW died. Look at how alive and 'interested' that crowd looks.. partly because they're not flooded into homogeny with a hard red or blue light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK94KEoFcjU

And Kevin Dunn's camera direction is known as "fast food directing". They're killing their own product with shit direction and making their commentators not actually commentate but just be mouthpieces for Vince.

yeah actually being able to see the crowd used to be pretty sweet

 

[Bluekaveli]

yeah actually being able to see the crowd used to be pretty sweet

The crowd is like that of an Okc game, not interested lol

 

[luchadork]

- Predictability. Honestly, I don't read any of the wrestling news sites. Nor am I terribly privy to the back stage goings on but there's almost no drama to anything that happens in the ring. Sheamus cashing in at Survivor Series was so telegraphed with the running time of the final match-up, it meant zero. When was the last time a title changed on Raw? Having been a fan straight through the 80/90's, I remember a time when both WCW and WWE would have meaningful matches on Monday Night for the big titles and it never lessened the impact of title changes during the PPV's - would be it be so awful as to have a world title change happen on Raw?

HHH: [TWENTY MINUTE OPENING SPEECH ABOUT A NEARLY 3 YEAR LONG ANGLE OF AUTHORITY VS FACES]
ROMAN [stilted]: I WANT MY REMATCH
HHH [intensifying]: YOU CANT HAVE IT! I DECIDE. ALSO. YOU CAN HAVE IT. BUT YOU AND THE AUDIENCE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT THREE WEEKS FOR TLC.
ROMAN: OK. GOOD. SO NOW WHAT?
HHH: I DONT KNOW. WE'LL JUST PUT THIS SHIT INTO CRUISE CONTROL UNTIL THEN.
ROMAN: SO THREE WEEKS OF INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING FOLLOWED BY A PREDICTABLE PPV RESULT?
HHH: ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING YOU SPEAK OF?... THAT STARTS TONIGHT!!!

 

[GaimeGuy]

HHH: [TWENTY MINUTE OPENING SPEECH ABOUT A NEARLY 3 YEAR LONG ANGLE OF AUTHORITY VS FACES]
ROMAN [stilted]: I WANT MY REMATCH
HHH [intensifying]: YOU CANT HAVE IT! I DECIDE. ALSO. YOU CAN HAVE IT. BUT YOU AND THE AUDIENCE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT THREE WEEKS FOR TLC.
ROMAN: OK. GOOD. SO NOW WHAT?
HHH: I DONT KNOW. WE'LL JUST PUT THIS SHIT INTO CRUISE CONTROL UNTIL THEN.
ROMAN: SO THREE WEEKS OF INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING FOLLOWED BY A PREDICTABLE PPV RESULT?
HHH: ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING YOU SPEAK OF?... THAT STARTS TONIGHT!!!

<3

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

HHH: [TWENTY MINUTE OPENING SPEECH ABOUT A NEARLY 3 YEAR LONG ANGLE OF AUTHORITY VS FACES]
ROMAN [stilted]: I WANT MY REMATCH
HHH [intensifying]: YOU CANT HAVE IT! I DECIDE. ALSO. YOU CAN HAVE IT. BUT YOU AND THE AUDIENCE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT THREE WEEKS FOR TLC.
ROMAN: OK. GOOD. SO NOW WHAT?
HHH: I DONT KNOW. WE'LL JUST PUT THIS SHIT INTO CRUISE CONTROL UNTIL THEN.
ROMAN: SO THREE WEEKS OF INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING FOLLOWED BY A PREDICTABLE PPV RESULT?
HHH: ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING YOU SPEAK OF?... THAT STARTS RIGHT. NOW.!!!

FTFY otherwise perfecto

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I heard that Beef Mode has been disengaged permanently, which makes his last job getting tombstoned on Jimmy Fallon.

 

[Kaiterra]

FTFY otherwise perfecto

Or even "RIGHT. NOW." [COMMERCIAL BREAK]

I heard that Beef Mode has been disengaged permanently, which makes his last job getting tombstoned on Jimmy Fallon.

WHAT?! Ugh what a sad day.

 

[strikeselect]

yeah actually being able to see the crowd used to be pretty sweet

Ha. That's gonna put some butts in the seats..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8nbJikFTv8

I miss the Monday Night Wars.

 

[Killing_Joke]

He (Punk) had low overruns as champion (2012) and were the lowest of any champion since 1997. He was not much of a draw as champion overall. Bryan did much better in this regard.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2012/1204/558455/wwe-raw-rating/

Ryback's music hits and he celebrates as RAW goes off the air.

This is just one of the laughable endings to that shit streak they had at the end of 2012. It's easy to point the finger at one person. Punk was the champion, he was no where near the face of the company. No one dares to blame John Cena. Yup Summerslam 2013 tanked all because of Daniel Bryan. Oh hey rememeber when all the legends returned to boost ratings?

Less than a month later, this past Oct. 19 episode of Raw hit its lowest rating numbers in 18 years with a 2.21 rating, matching the Christmas Eve 2012 episode for the lowest Raw rating since the mid-1990s, according to PWTorch.

It's surprising, considering this past Monday night's episode opened with The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar and featured appearances from legends such as Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold Steve Austin and Ric Flair. What more can fans want?

Oh.

While it is important for the champ to bring in the ratings and money, it's literally impossible to do when the overall product is pure shit. Now poor Seth is on the list of ratings killers despite having more talent then the majority of the locker room. Just another victim of being the champ with god awful booking.

 

[Hycran]

Or even "RIGHT. NOW." [COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Followed by" "We now return to MONDAY NIGHT RAW"

Rest hold

 

[KazenY2J]

people have been saying for years that their reliance on cena and part timers is going to bite them in the ass

now here we are. not only is cena out, but a TON of other high tier performers are out with injury at the moment. there is ZERO star power because all they care about is getting reigns over. and he's not over. so you're left with nothing


ROMAN 2.16

Nothing but truth.
They're fucked when Cena calls it quits, Taker's on his way out too.

 

[Hasney]

Now any hope of getting back on track has been ruined by firing Brad Maddox for calling the audience cocky pricks in a dark promo.

 

[kiguel182]

You folks are using a lot of words to describe the root of what we're all feeling: it's just boring. We don't really care about who's champ, how long Raw is, how good anyone on the mic is, etc. Those are all details that get overlooked if the show is just entertaining. But Raw is 3 hours of terrible TV, and PPVs feel like Raws.

Pretty much. We can go in detail and try and describe everything wrong with the show but this is the root cause of it all. It's a boring show and we don't care about anything that happens in it. Well said.

 

[UberTag]

Now any hope of getting back on track has been ruined by firing Brad Maddox for calling the audience cocky pricks in a dark promo.

If he really wanted to get fired, he could at least have done us the favor of calling Vince and his army of stooges "cocky pricks" instead.

Actually... that might have got him promoted and back on TV.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

go ahead, read that out loud

I was there live too.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Now any hope of getting back on track has been ruined by firing Brad Maddox for calling the audience cocky pricks in a dark promo.

He's gone for good?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This best promos are always the WWE.com exclusive ones. Ambrose, New Day, and Owens shine so hard in those ones. Especially Ambrose.

they need more on location vignettes for introducing new guys. remember when the first time we saw Razor was on the streets of Miami? Or Val Venis on a porn set?

 

[Hasney]

He's gone for good?

Yup. Apparently fired on the spot for saying "pricks".

Yet bitch is thrown around.

 

[Host Samurai]

They should have kept the title on Brock. Rollins jobbing as a champion in non title and tag matches makes the championship look like shit again.

Remember the days that Yoko had it? He was a monster and would never get pinned or lose, and when Bret finally beat him it was epic as fuck.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

they need more on location vignettes for introducing new guys. remember when the first time we saw Razor was on the streets of Miami? Or Val Venis on a porn set?

They flat out need to get out of the arena more. It's mind boggling that in 2015, with everyone having a camera that they don't and if they do, they still rely on using camera guys in situations where it doesn't make sense for one to be around and pretending they're not there. Hell, give roster members Go Pros for those situations or something.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They flat out need to get out of the arena more. It's mind boggling that in 2015, with everyone having a camera that they don't and if they do, they still rely on using camera guys in situations where it doesn't make sense for one to be around and pretending they're not there. Hell, give roster members Go Pros for those situations or something.

Yeah the big problem which causes a disconnect is that the scenes where we are "spying" on wrestlers in the back are shot and framed exactly the same way as interviews, only the wrestlers don't acknowledge the camera or that they are on film. Those parts also don't jive with how WWE has seemingly been trying to present themselves as more of a real sport in terms of presentation lately.

 

[yuraya]

Steve Austin should come back and run the show. His podcast is more entertaining than raw.

Austin would be perfect as a commentator. Vince needs to replace JBL and Cole. Those guys are so boring.

 

[Bronx-Man]

HHH: [TWENTY MINUTE OPENING SPEECH ABOUT A NEARLY 3 YEAR LONG ANGLE OF AUTHORITY VS FACES]
ROMAN [stilted]: I WANT MY REMATCH
HHH [intensifying]: YOU CANT HAVE IT! I DECIDE. ALSO. YOU CAN HAVE IT. BUT YOU AND THE AUDIENCE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT THREE WEEKS FOR TLC.
ROMAN: OK. GOOD. SO NOW WHAT?
HHH: I DONT KNOW. WE'LL JUST PUT THIS SHIT INTO CRUISE CONTROL UNTIL THEN.
ROMAN: SO THREE WEEKS OF INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING FOLLOWED BY A PREDICTABLE PPV RESULT?
HHH: ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT INCONSEQUENTIAL BOOKING YOU SPEAK OF?... THAT STARTS TONIGHT!!!

I think Vince just found his newest member of creative.

 

[The Silver]

Austin would be perfect as a commentator. Vince needs to replace JBL and Cole. Those guys are so boring.

Austin would be just as stale and overproduced as those two.

 

[Showaddy]

Austin would be perfect as a commentator. Vince needs to replace JBL and Cole. Those guys are so boring.

No one could possibly be a perfect commentator with Vince in their ear. Cole was actually pretty good when he had free reign on Beast in the East.

 

[PayOffWizard]

He's terrible on the mic. Just awful.

Plus, he's probably the fattest guy on the roster right now.

What's being fat got to do with the price of eggs?
He's a better in ring performer than 99% of the roster.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Austin would be perfect as a commentator. Vince needs to replace JBL and Cole. Those guys are so boring.

The little kids would be so confused. "Daddy what's a white meat baby face?"

 

[NoRéN]

Now any hope of getting back on track has been ruined by firing Brad Maddox for calling the audience cocky pricks in a dark promo.

My sister told me this and I thought she was kidding.

 

[Into]

How about firing Vince McMahon for calling John Cena a nigga?

But no, we all know rules in that company only count for lower half of the employees. Similar how they test for PED's, i am sure Hunter and Cena walk around with syringes up their asses and nobody would dare give them a second look

 

[DMczaf]

they need more on location vignettes for introducing new guys. remember when the first time we saw Razor was on the streets of Miami? Or Val Venis on a porn set?

Remember Waylon Mercy?

 

[Bronx-Man]

How about firing Vince McMahon for calling John Cena a nigga?

But no, we all know rules in that company only count for lower half of the employees. Similar how they test for PED's, i am sure Hunter and Cena walk around with syringes up their asses and nobody would dare give them a second look

Scott Steiner called out HHH for skipping wellness tests like back in 2003, and CM Punk did it again ten years later!