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[Anth0ny]

WWE's greatest skill is emphasizing their performers' weaknesses.

Look no further than Tyler Breeze. Christ.

 

[Heroman]

Size had never really matter, some of the most popular wrestlers in recent memory have been"small guys" as well some of the great.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I don't think that Japan example you highlighted is credible/holds-water as it is not true. I've been going to many NJPW matches and hanging with the community and watching the scene, plus I have been checking how things use to be and who are the top draws. Sorry, from what I have seen it hasn't been to how you are thinking here in Japan. Japanese people do not think like how you implied.

Yes, the top guys were big guys - Kobashi, Misawa, Hashimoto, etc. There's a reason why Liger was never a top guy. Now, maybe that wrestling is a niche thing in Japan, they can be OK with smaller guys, but in general, size does matter. Brody & Hansen got paid big money for a reason.

It's incredibly hard to think that both Shawn Michael's and Brett Hart didn't draw for crap. I know you are talking about the US but that is even more so the case of thinking, "sorry, I really don't believe you". In fact, I refuse to believe what you said especially unless you can provide examples and proof. From what I've seen, Brett Hart especially was a massive draw in the US (a massive draw doesn't mean THE draw, of course). Back in the 90s, the merchandise and TV showing were off the chain, every kid wanted something or to be a bit like "the hitman" because he was the definition of "cool". This is from what I've seen with my own eyes but I don't know how you figured that the drawing numbers from Brett and even Shawn Michaels' were not big enough. Heck, in respect to myself providing proof, Bret Hartt main event Wrestlemania 3 times and Shawn main event 5 times (Shawn isn't called Mr Wrestlemania for nothing). Shawn was put on frequently in Wrestlemania because he draw big numbers and put on impressive show to boot, and it would be stupid for WWF/E to headline Shawn and Brett numerous times if that wasn't the case! So how can these two credible guys didn't draw big numbers in the US alone and if they didn't draw big numbers then why did the WWF/E made them headline wrestlemania on so many occasions? Look, here is my proof in regards to Wrestlemania headliners focusing on Brett and Shawn -

Actual numbers and drawing power disagrees with you. It's widely accepted, even by WWE apologists that 1993-1996 was the dark ages for the WWF. Look at the Observers for the time. They headlined WM because there were no other options in the mid 90's. Just because you were a kid at the time doesn't mean they were actually drawing cards.

Yes, after being gone for 5 years, Shawn came back, but note he was never put in place to be the top guy until 10 years of WWE revisoning of wrestling convinced people that Michaels was the greatest worker in history.

 

[kitzkozan]

I think Lucha Underground goes to show bodysize means fuck all if you can carry yourself as a performer. The fact guys like Pentagon and Phoneix aren't 6'6 and rocking hard abs doesn't act at to their detriment when it's not made into a focus point. At the same time it doesn't prevent the bigger guys like Cage and Mil or the built guys like Cuerno and Puma from looking like threats because of their better body shapes.

On the other hand the WWE hires on of the biggest stars in Japan and the only thing they've done with him in 2 weeks is have him sit like a goober whilst a jobber calls him a short arse; but that's okay because Bryan was too! It's a fucking terrible way to sell anybody, let alone somebody who's already made and has a limited time span in the ring.

You need the people who can properly book that kind of talent and portray them as megastars. You forgot to say that LU isn't even afraid to put their female wrestlers out there against big power wrestlers. It's far ahead of what the WWE or any wrestling promotion is doing at the moment (ltop notch production values, interesting stories for a wrestling shoes and great booking). Ivelisse would be stuck in a program with Brie Bella or the female jobber crew in the WWE, even is she's to good for that shit (as are Lynch or Banks). There's no way a Conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey could become massive draw in the WWE, since it's all about the main event scene where you need to face off against behemoths and look believable. XD

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

It doesn't really matter who's on top when the booking/writing is absolute, overly written shit from top to bottom. WWE is full of midcarders but no actual midcard. The biggest strength of the Attitude era (and a credit to Russo) besides not being overly scripted was everyone or at least almost everyone had something to do.

 

[ZeroRay]

A lot of the most popular wrestlers of each era captured, or basically WERE the cultural zeitgeist of their time. Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Rock, Austin, etc.

Now you have a bunch of guys trying to be something but not really being them if what I just typed out makes any sense.

I don't think bringing a huge guy for the sake of it has anything to do with it considering the company's had declining ratings since the Attitude Era ended. They tried their hand at awkward big guys who couldn't really talk or put on a match, and they did the same with smaller, more technical guys.

I truly believe Vince just doesn't get culture as well as he used to and instead of letting things go, and let the writers/performers do their thing naturally, the company only became stricter when it comes to every little detail of the show.

People want compelling characters and an entertaining show. Something the company hasn't done on a consistent basis since the end of Heyman's Smackdown.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

When you look small next to Jericho, there's a pretty big elephant in the room that the audience is going to be aware of, and it was fine given what they were going for with the Bryan analogy.

I can't honestly believe you think that AJ losing an inch (a few with Jercho's ridiculous platform heels) was the reason why the crowd tuned off during that match rather than:

• Jericho being a shadow of his former self
• Jericho not having put on an exciting match in years
• Jericho not having won in years
• Jericho getting most of the offence in the match
• AJ having to win with a rollup

It's pretty funny you bring up Bryan at the end because his NXT match debut got him over huge with the crowd because it was an actually exciting match and nobody gave a shit about the size difference during the entire thing.

AJ shouldn't be an underdog when his debut is at 38. They have a development program with a mass of talent who they could sell as underdogs rather than wasting that angle on somebody who they buy in due to their reputation/talent.

Though if you're saying somebody being an inch shorter than Jericho is an issue when Jericho got over huge despite being a lot shorter than his competition you're clearly grasping at straws.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

The last time Vince was even remotely in touch culturally was the 80s.

 

[Dark Ninja]

The problem really isn't the talent. They have one of the best rosters in all of WWE history. Vince just doesn't believe in any of them. They don't back anyone 100%. Even Roman Reigns who's supposed to be "their" guy is made to look like an idiot because of the storylines the 40 writers and Vince come up with. No one else but the main event really gets a story anymore. These problems are not new. Again they have been killing guys for the past decade to try and keep Cena on top of everyone and keep from building new stars. They relied too heavily on part timers instead of giving the talent they have the ball.

Also when they see the crowd actually like someone but it wasn't planned by them. They go out of their way to kill em or punish them. Its backwards thinking.

 

[Fox318]

I can't honestly believe you think that AJ losing an inch (a few with Jercho's ridiculous platform heels) was the reason why the crowd tuned off during that match rather than:

• Jericho being a shadow of his former self
  [*]Jericho not having put on an exciting match in years
  [*]Jericho not having won in years
• Jericho getting most of the offence in the match
• AJ having to win with a rollup

It's pretty funny you bring up Bryan at the end because his NXT match debut got him over huge with the crowd because it was an actually exciting match and nobody gave a shit about the size difference during the entire thing.

AJ shouldn't be an underdog when his debut is at 38. They have a development program with a mass of talent who they could sell as underdogs rather than wasting that angle on somebody who they buy in due to their reputation/talent.

Though if you're saying somebody being an inch shorter than Jericho is an issue when Jericho got over huge despite being a lot shorter than his competition you're clearly grasping at straws.

You should see his match vs Neville this year.

He was great.

 

[The Silver]

People talking about Punk or Bryan not moving the needle are missing it, it's never been one guy who singlehandedly did it all. Hogan had Andre, Savage, and Warrior. Austin had Vince, Rock, Foley, Taker, HHH, etc. NWO had Hogan, Nash, and Hall in it, Sting and Goldberg.

And the big bump in numbers doesn't happen overnight, it takes long consistent good quality before things go on a big upswing. Summer of Punk was pretty much over as soon it began thanks to WWE botching it. Bryan was never even given the chance at actually being the top guy, they begrudingly appeased fans at Mania and wanted to spin their wheels until getting rid of him at Summerslam. Bryan was nothing than an albatross Vince had to deal with.

The only person Punk and Bryan had around as a supporting cast(not counting part timers) was Cena who is a dinosaur with how long he's been around and how overexposed he is. Punk was a shell of himself and quit when Bryan was on the road to WM and Bryan was still improving himself when Punk had his moment.

 

[Anth0ny]

People talking about Punk or Bryan not moving the needle are missing it, it's never been one guy who singlehandedly did it all. Hogan had Andre, Savage, and Warrior. Austin had Vince, Rock, Foley, Taker, HHH, etc. NWO had Hogan, Nash, and Hall in it, Sting and Goldberg.

And the big bump in numbers doesn't happen overnight, it takes long consistent good quality before things go on a big upswing. Summer of Punk was pretty much over as soon it began thanks to WWE botching it. Bryan was never even given the chance at actually being the top guy, they begrudingly appeased fans at Mania and wanted to spin their wheels until getting rid of him at Summerslam. Bryan was nothing than an albatross Vince had to deal with.

The only person Punk and Bryan had around as a supporting cast(not counting part timers) was Cena who is a dinosaur with long he's been around and how overexposed he is. Punk was a shell of himself and quit when Bryan was on the road to WM and Bryan was still improving himself when Punk had his moment.

Exactly right.

They had the biggest thing since the attitude era with punk and his pipe bomb promo. That was the "Austin 3:16" moment. The MITB build and match was MASTERFUL.

And then.... Uuuuuuuuggggggggfhhhhhhhhhh

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

The main issue with WWE for me is that it's basically generic white guy vs. generic white guy for 3 hours. The few guys who are playing a character don't have lengthy memorable storylines that make you care about the character. Even if a guy is basically a jobber if his gimmick or character is entertaining then people will be satisfied. Disco Inferno and Alex Wright were jobbers but they were entertaining. I don't remember The Godfather or Val Venus being in any ppv but their characters were funny.

The characters are supposed to be larger than life but now it's just people who if I saw them walking down the street I wouldn't look twice. Norman Smiley would get my attention much faster than Jack Swagger.

 

[Kaladin]

Exactly right.

They had the biggest thing since the attitude era with punk and his pipe bomb promo. That was the "Austin 3:16" moment. The MITB build and match was MASTERFUL.

And then.... Uuuuuuuuggggggggfhhhhhhhhhh

That's where WWE always shits the bed. They get the hot angle right but they can never nail the landing.

 

[Plinko]

They had the chance with Punk back in 2011. But Vince is a talentless hack who no longer has the ability to let his talent actually get over, sustain themselves in the long term and draw more fans in. Most of the big stars came about in spite of Vince and his idiocy. Just take a look at the shit Austin had to deal with before he came up with the Stone Cold character.

They thought about naming him Chilly Mcfreeze.

CHILLY MCFREEZE.

 

[kirblar]

I can't honestly believe you think that AJ losing an inch (a few with Jercho's ridiculous platform heels) was the reason why the crowd tuned off during that match rather than:

• Jericho being a shadow of his former self
• Jericho not having put on an exciting match in years
• Jericho not having won in years
• Jericho getting most of the offence in the match
• AJ having to win with a rollup

It's pretty funny you bring up Bryan at the end because his NXT match debut got him over huge with the crowd because it was an actually exciting match and nobody gave a shit about the size difference during the entire thing.

AJ shouldn't be an underdog when his debut is at 38. They have a development program with a mass of talent who they could sell as underdogs rather than wasting that angle on somebody who they buy in due to their reputation/talent.

Though if you're saying somebody being an inch shorter than Jericho is an issue when Jericho got over huge despite being a lot shorter than his competition you're clearly grasping at straws.

I didn't say a thing about the match other than to point out that Jericho/AJ had made it obvious he wasn't a big guy. I was talking about the Bryan/Miz segment. AJ's being treated with a massive amount of respect, and the Bryan comparison was an attempt to put a rocket under him to get the crowds to warm up to him more.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Exactly right.

They had the biggest thing since the attitude era with punk and his pipe bomb promo. That was the "Austin 3:16" moment. The MITB build and match was MASTERFUL.

And then.... Uuuuuuuuggggggggfhhhhhhhhhh

I like to pull it up on occasion.

I was so hyped when I watched that shit. I was like, "So, Punk is about to be a mega star. This is one of those "once every 10 years" promos." I had people who didn't even like Wrestling asking me about it.

And then, yeah. God. Fucking GOD.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Just imagine if Austin 3:16 was followed by a similar manner, as it probably would be these days. WWE would probably be out of business.

The problem really isn't the talent. They have one of the best rosters in all of WWE history. Vince just doesn't believe in any of them. They don't back anyone 100%. Even Roman Reigns who's supposed to be "their" guy is made to look like an idiot because of the storylines the 40 writers and Vince come up with. No one else but the main event really gets a story anymore. These problems are not new. Again they have been killing guys for the past decade to try and keep Cena on top of everyone and keep from building new stars. They relied too heavily on part timers instead of giving the talent they have the ball.

Also when they see the crowd actually like someone but it wasn't planned by them. They go out of their way to kill em or punish them. Its backwards thinking.

We've, at least in part been in the Hogan cycle since Cena became the top guy. Cena has been on top now for longer than Hogan while at the same time tens times more over exposed. Then of course we can go back to how even then all Vince really cared about was what Hogan was doing and left everything else to bookers and agents. But at the very least things weren't overly structured and creatively stifling as they are now.

Let's not forget how post-Hogan era Vince thought the new thing was characters who also had day jobs so we got Plumbers, a Repoman, Hockey Players, Baseball Players, the New Coke of old Tag Teams, Roman's modern counterparts in the Lex Express and face Diesel. That seems to be where we're going again, not to say Vince didn't have shit ideas in the Hogan era either, I'm willing to wager he had more misses than hits. Vince's "creative genius" has always been vastly over rated and now we have dozens of scab writers and his daughter with all his worst qualities and her husband who doesn't like being disagreed with or confronted about shit ideas that are going to be running things unless Vince manages to eventually transfer his consciousness into either a clone or a machine.

 

[Radec]

RAWs are getting boring every week.

It's too predictable.

USOs vs Social Outcasts?
New Day vs Reigns+Ambrose?
MizTV?
Brock? No way he'll wrestle again in RAW.

The only thing good last night was Ziggler vs Owens.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't know if they ever had the creativity though. Vince is obviously a big picture guy. He saw that you can take this regional carny show and turn it into something that would be on MTV and Sports Illustrated and for that he should get a ton of credit, but was he ever a star maker? Hogan was already on the rise in AWA when Vince got his hooks in him. Obviously VInce should get credit again for recognizing that this huge bald dude had the personality and charisma to become the face of his company, but it's not like he created Hulk Hogan. Often when you hear old school behind the scene stories about Vince working with creative he is the one that comes up with the stupidest shit. Turning Shane Douglas into a fucking college professor? Steve Austin into the Ringmaster? Dwyane Johnson as the corny white meat babyface Rocky Miavia? It's becoming more and more apparent to me that the Attitude Era was not some stroke of creative genius, but a mix of desperation and luck that probably can't be replicated. And remember, if you actually go back and watch episodes of RAW from that era, like 50-75% of each episode is absolute trash and/or filler, just like now, Austin/Mr. McMahon/DX/Rock were just so money that you don't remember all the shit. The thing that I still can't figure out is how you sell Professional Wrestling to people 15-24 who right now have zero interest in it, because that's what the Monday Night Wars and the Attitude Era were able to do. I just don't see how you replicate that. That era of success was like a perfect storm.

 

[RBH]

Anyone has a chart or something listing every rating from 2015 and so on?

http://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2015-tv-ratings/

 

[kirblar]

I don't know if they ever had the creativity though. Vince is obviously a big picture guy. He saw that you can take this regional carny show and turn it into something that would be on MTV and Sports Illustrated and for that he should get a ton of credit, but was he ever a star maker? Hogan was already on the rise in AWA when Vince got his hooks in him. Obviously VInce should get credit again for recognizing that this huge bald dude had the personality and charisma to become the face of his company, but it's not like he created Hulk Hogan. Often when you hear old school behind the scene stories about Vince working with creative he is the one that comes up with the stupidest shit. Turning Shane Douglas into a fucking college professor? Steve Austin into the Ringmaster? Dwyane Johnson as the corny white meat babyface Rocky Miavia? It's becoming more and more apparent to me that the Attitude Era was not some stroke of creative genius, but a mix of desperation and luck that probably can't be replicated. And remember, if you actually go back and watch episodes of RAW from that era, like 50-75% of each episode is absolute trash and/or filler, just like now, Austin/Mr. McMahon/DX/Rock were just so money that you don't remember all the shit. The thing that I still can't figure out is how you sell Professional Wrestling to people 15-24 who right now have zero interest in it, because that's what the Monday Night Wars and the Attitude Era were able to do. I just don't see how you replicate that. That era of success was like a perfect storm.

The guys have said that he has good instincts as well- he just needs to be a collaborative voice with someone else in the editing role.

 

[Anth0ny]

I don't know if they ever had the creativity though. Vince is obviously a big picture guy. He saw that you can take this regional carny show and turn it into something that would be on MTV and Sports Illustrated and for that he should get a ton of credit, but was he ever a star maker? Hogan was already on the rise in AWA when Vince got his hooks in him. Obviously VInce should get credit again for recognizing that this huge bald dude had the personality and charisma to become the face of his company, but it's not like he created Hulk Hogan. Often when you hear old school behind the scene stories about Vince working with creative he is the one that comes up with the stupidest shit. Turning Shane Douglas into a fucking college professor? Steve Austin into the Ringmaster? Dwyane Johnson as the corny white meat babyface Rocky Miavia? It's becoming more and more apparent to me that the Attitude Era was not some stroke of creative genius, but a mix of desperation and luck that probably can't be replicated. And remember, if you actually go back and watch episodes of RAW from that era, like 50-75% of each episode is absolute trash and/or filler, just like now, Austin/Mr. McMahon/DX/Rock were just so money that you don't remember all the shit. The thing that I still can't figure out is how you sell Professional Wrestling to people 15-24 who right now have zero interest in it, because that's what the Monday Night Wars and the Attitude Era were able to do. I just don't see how you replicate that. That era of success was like a perfect storm.

You're right. Like George Lucas, Vince McMahon is a fucking hack fraud that gets more credit than he deserves. The sooner he's out of the picture, the better for WWE.

Unless his idiot daughter decides to continue his legacy

 

[Ithil]

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here. The mainstream crowd doesn't care what size the wrestler is, Daniel Bryan proved that. They just want someone to latch onto that they can believe in whose story doesn't insult their intelligence. It takes a perfect blend of booking, talent to carry the booking and incredible ring action. They haven't had all three mesh since Bryan.

There is no point in engaging with him. He will just insult you and say "WWE is always right".

 

[Smokey_Run]

Again, before they "ruined" it, when every smark on the Internet was splooging over the angle - Money in the Bank didn't draw any more than normal. Ratings didn't move. It might've change if they didn't ruin it, but for all the podcast appearances and posts on blogs about the pipebomb, the casual fan didn't seem to care.

Are we talking about the MITB where Punk won the title before his contract was up? If so, I don't even know if most people were aware of what was happening until after that PPV. I fell out of touch with wrestling around 2005 or 2006 and this CM Punk character winning the title and then leaving was the first thing I saw from the WWE in years, but it was only after the PPV when Punk was popping up at random spots with the belt while he wasn't under contract. You can't expect the pipebomb segment to happen and then there is an immediate jump in ratings. That's like expecting WWF numbers to jump as soon as Austin dropped the Austin 3:16 promo at KOTR. It takes time and WWE rushed it and ruined it.

Punk should've been allowed to defend the title at other promotions, but WWE had to have him back immediately when it started to pick up coverage and then fed him to Triple H shortly after that.

 

[obijkenobi]

Are we talking about the MITB where Punk won the title before his contract was up? If so, I don't even know if most people were aware of what was happening until after that PPV. I fell out of touch with wrestling around 2005 or 2006 and this CM Punk character winning the title and then leaving was the first thing I saw from the WWE in years, but it was only after the PPV when Punk was popping up at random spots with the belt while he wasn't under contract. You can't expect the pipebomb segment to happen and then there is an immediate jump in ratings. That's like expecting WWF numbers to jump as soon as Austin dropped the Austin 3:16 promo at KOTR. It takes time and WWE rushed it and ruined it.

Punk should've been allowed to defend the title at other promotions, but WWE had to have him back immediately when it started to pick up coverage and then fed him to Triple H shortly after that.

Right. It was the equivalent of meeting a cute girl at the bar, her being into you and giving you her number, and then immediately asking her to marry you. And then when she was understandably flabbergasted, yelling in her face about why she didn't accept the proposal.

I mean, after MitB, Cena pretty much immediately won the title back, Punk beat him even though Cena had his foot on the ropes and then the Nash/HHH nonsense happened.

 

[BadAss2961]

On the other hand the WWE hires on of the biggest stars in Japan and the only thing they've done with him in 2 weeks is have him sit like a goober whilst a jobber calls him a short arse; but that's okay because Bryan was too! It's a fucking terrible way to sell anybody, let alone somebody who's already made and has a limited time span in the ring.

WWE's greatest skill is emphasizing their performers' weaknesses.

I totally agree. Yeah, he's small, and he's not a talker... Let's tell the audience how small he is, what an overachiever he is, and make it obvious that he can't talk by way of Jericho and Miz never letting him speak. Don't like where they're going with him at all. Quit it with the small guy underdog crap and just let him do what he does best -- compete. They should've booked him similar to RVD's first run where he won titles early and was capable of beating anyone on the roster.

Btw, haven't seen much of AJ in NJPW, but he had already developed into capable talker late in TNA. He's fine as long as he has a target and it's kept simple.

He was so over at the Rumble. He's slowly but surely losing momentum on these weak Raws.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I like to pull it up on occasion.

I was so hyped when I watched that shit. I was like, "So, Punk is about to be a mega star. This is one of those "once every 10 years" promos." I had people who didn't even like Wrestling asking me about it.

And then, yeah. God. Fucking GOD.

I remember the night it happened I was IMing with my best friend, saying I wasn't watching Raw anymore because nothing cool ever happens, and an hour later he's telling me one of the greatest moments in wrestling history just happened. Got me fully re-hooked until Triple H killed it within a couple of months.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I remember the night it happened I was IMing with my best friend, saying I wasn't watching Raw anymore because nothing cool ever happens, and an hour later he's telling me one of the greatest moments in wrestling history just happened. Got me fully re-hooked until Triple H killed it within a couple of months.

That promo is the reason I got back into wrestling.

 

[Ronin Ray]

Yep size is the issue in the era of Mayweather, Pacquiao, Ronda Rousey, Colin McGregor and Steph Curry. Or maybe you need compelling story lines and you have to let people with big personalities show them. As a kid me and my friends never once cared about the rock or Austin's size. How about they let guys like big e and rusev show the personalities they show on twitter.

 

[Zabka]

Was Steph behind the original Divas Revolution plan? Did they ever say who was responsible for the factions because that shit made zero sense.

Have the company's top heel/corporate character at the time introduce a "revolution" by taking 3 hot newcomers and chaining them to the existing roster. Then put them in a holding pattern for months so you can beat a meaningless record held by a former employee.

Plus they still call them Divas and make them wrestle for that hideous belt because getting the brand over is the most important part of the show. What a waste.

 

[Mahonay]

RAW has been such a ridiculously low effort offering for at least a year now. It just feels like a lot of the writers have completely given up after Vince has thrown out most of their ideas for years. Even the thing WWE actually focuses on, the Roman Reings story, is pretty shit. I'm seriously surprised the ratings are not worse than they are. I think their highly talented roster is the only thing pulling in anyone to watch.

They also need the likes of Cena and Rollins back from injury so fucking badly.

Was Steph behind the original Divas Revolution plan? Did they ever say who was responsible for the factions because that shit made zero sense.

Have the company's top heel/corporate character at the time introduce a "revolution" by taking 3 hot newcomers and chaining them to the existing roster. Then put them in a holding pattern for months so you can beat a meaningless record held by a former employee.

Plus they still call them Divas and make them wrestle for that hideous belt because getting the brand over is the most important part of the show. What a waste.

You've explained all the reasons the "Divas Revoltuion" was fucking hot garbage, WWE's sad and failed attempt to feed off the tremendous run those women had in NXT.

 

[BoboBrazil]

RAW has been such a ridiculously low effort offering for at least a year now. It just feels like a lot of the writers have completely given up after Vince has thrown out most of their ideas for years. Even the thing WWE actually focuses on, the Roman Reings story, is pretty shit. I'm seriously surprised the ratings are not worse than they are. I think their highly talented roster is the only thing pulling in anyone to watch.

They also need the likes of Cena and Rollins back from injury so fucking badly.

It's been that way for far more than a year. CM Punk talked about how stale it was for years in a fucking 2011 pipebomb promo that was supposed to wake them up and nothing changed. It's 5 years after that promo. WWE catches a break on maybe 1 good storyline a year if they are lucky and it's usually ruined within 3 weeks. Last year they had their shot with Daniel Bryan returning from injury in the Royal Rumble. He should have won that and gone on to Mania. Instead they eliminate him in embarassing fashion and then force him into a feud with all the other midcarder 50/50 guys.

 

[TemplaerDude]

The problem really isn't the talent. They have one of the best rosters in all of WWE history. Vince just doesn't believe in any of them. They don't back anyone 100%. Even Roman Reigns who's supposed to be "their" guy is made to look like an idiot because of the storylines the 40 writers and Vince come up with. No one else but the main event really gets a story anymore. These problems are not new. Again they have been killing guys for the past decade to try and keep Cena on top of everyone and keep from building new stars. They relied too heavily on part timers instead of giving the talent they have the ball.

Also when they see the crowd actually like someone but it wasn't planned by them. They go out of their way to kill em or punish them. Its backwards thinking.

Exactly this. Especially with Roman, the whole fucking thing makes no sense. They want us to get behind a guy that they show no faith or confidence in at every turn. They keep his matches relatively short and ring time small because he doesn't have a particularly large set of moves, they pair him with better talkers because he still doesn't have any promo skills. I mean, he walks out of the Royal Rumble and gets told to give his thoughts and he says nothing. Nothing! The former champ who just lost to HHH says absolutely nothing. I want to believe in Roman but they don't even believe in him. Or balee in him, whatever.

Was Steph behind the original Divas Revolution plan? Did they ever say who was responsible for the factions because that shit made zero sense.

Have the company's top heel/corporate character at the time introduce a "revolution" by taking 3 hot newcomers and chaining them to the existing roster. Then put them in a holding pattern for months so you can beat a meaningless record held by a former employee.

Plus they still call them Divas and make them wrestle for that hideous belt because getting the brand over is the most important part of the show. What a waste.

This shit was incredibly maddening because it was so. Fucking. Transparent. They may as well have started every Raw with Vince shitting on a picture of AJ Lee.

 

[UberTag]

It's been that way for far more than a year. CM Punk talked about how stale it was for years in a fucking 2011 pipebomb promo that was supposed to wake them up and nothing changed. It's 5 years after that promo. WWE catches a break on maybe 1 good storyline a year if they are lucky and it's usually ruined within 3 weeks. Last year they had their shot with Daniel Bryan returning from injury in the Royal Rumble. He should have won that and gone on to Mania. Instead they eliminate him in embarassing fashion and then force him into a feud with all the other midcarder 50/50 guys.

Daniel Bryan was summarily ousted from the Rumble by one Bray Wyatt... ending his dream of going back to the Mania main event.

And one year prior to that... a spot that has largely led to D.Brine's current retired condition...

 

[Anth0ny]

That promo is the reason I got back into wrestling.

Same.

 

[Mahonay]

It's been that way for far more than a year. CM Punk talked about how stale it was for years in a fucking 2011 pipebomb promo that was supposed to wake them up and nothing changed. It's 5 years after that promo. WWE catches a break on maybe 1 good storyline a year if they are lucky and it's usually ruined within 3 weeks. Last year they had their shot with Daniel Bryan returning from injury in the Royal Rumble. He should have won that and gone on to Mania. Instead they eliminate him in embarassing fashion and then force him into a feud with all the other midcarder 50/50 guys.

I started watching again in early 2013 after I lapsed as a fan in 2003.

The Daniel Bryan story, The Shield, The Wyatts, The Rhodes bros., absolutely made WWE must watch for me during that period of time I got back into it. Along with Brock's great run after beating Taker, and Rollins' initial run.

There is nothing that truly pulls me in on the main WWE show right now. It's great AJ is here now, but we'll see if they actually give him something good to do. And I want to like the Divas stuff as it's been decent lately, but then Brie Bella pins Charlotte this past Monday.

At least I can watch NXT while the rest of WWE sucks shit.

 

[Host Samurai]

The era of the big man is coming to an end. You can see it in MMA too as the LHW/HW divisions are becoming increasingly shallow with the old guard still in the top 10 with no new prospects, while the lower weight classes are stacked and full of future prospects.

You can see this in wrestling too. I'm sure some big guys like Stroman will sprinkle up here and there and maybe we might get another freak of nature like Big Show, but I can guarantee you that there will never be another Batista, Cena, HHH or Hogan. The future is in guys like Finn, Bryan, Zayn etc

 

[Mahonay]

The era of the big man is coming to an end. You can see it in MMA too as the LHW/HW divisions are becoming increasingly shallow with the old guard still in the top 10 with no new prospects, while the lower weight classes are stacked and full of future prospects.

You can see this in wrestling too. I'm sure some big guys like Stroman will sprinkle up here and there and maybe we might get another freak of nature like Big Show, but I can guarantee you that there will never be another Batista, Cena, HHH or Hogan. The future is in guys like Finn, Bryan, Zayn etc

As long as Vince is booking there will be huge guys all over the WWE.

But yeah, the smaller guys rising up in the indies/Japan has changed the scenery quite a bit.

 

[BoboBrazil]

I started watching again in early 2013 after I lapsed as a fan in 2003.

The Daniel Bryan story, The Shield, The Wyatts, The Rhodes bros., absolutely made WWE must watch for me during that period of time I got back into it. Along with Brock's great run after beating Taker, and Rollins' initial run.

There is nothing that truly pulls me in on the main WWE show right now. It's great AJ is here now, but we'll see if they actually give him something good to do. And I want to like the Divas stuff as it's been decent lately, but then Brie Bella pins Charlotte this past Monday.

At least I can watch NXT while the rest of WWE sucks shit.

AJ just seems out of place. He needed some time down in NXT to get up on the entertainment aspect of everything. He's really small compared to pretty much everyone else on the roster besides Kalisto also. It's not noticeable when you watch him in Japan or in TNA against other people that are similar size, but it just stands out so much in WWE. I think even Daniel Bryan is bigger than him.

 

[Mahonay]

AJ just seems out of place. He needed some time down in NXT to get up on the entertainment aspect of everything. He's really small compared to pretty much everyone else on the roster besides Kalisto also. It's not noticeable when you watch him in Japan or in TNA against other people that are similar size, but it just stands out so much in WWE. I think even Daniel Bryan is bigger than him.

He's definitely small but his moves look big and really hard hitting. I think that makes up for the small size. Also he's in great shape. I can see him as a massively over upper-mid carder for the next couple of years, sort of like when Eddie and Benoit when they came in.

Also if Rey Mysterio was WHC at one point, why not AJ Styles?

 

[BoboBrazil]

He's definitely small but his moves look big and really hard hitting. I think that makes up for the small size. Also he's in great shape. I can see him as a massively over upper-mid card for the next couple of years, sort of like when Eddie and Benoit when they came in.

Also if Rey Mysterio was WHC at one point, why not AJ Styles?

Mysterio was champ because Eddie died and he was a mexican star and they were expanding into Mexico. At that point WWE still somewhat cared about crowd reactions and pushed people accordingly.

 

[Mahonay]

Mysterio was champ because Eddie died and he was a mexican star and they were expanding into Mexico. At that point WWE still somewhat cared about crowd reactions and pushed people accordingly.

They still care a little bit if they hired AJ at all.

Don't get me wrong, I always expect modern WWE to fuck this kind of thing up and completely fail to deliver, rather than them taking advantage of any interesting possibilities.

And yeah Rey was a right place right time kind of scenario.

 

[BoboBrazil]

They still care a little bit if they hired AJ at all.

Don't get me wrong, I always expect modern WWE to fuck this kind of thing up and completely fail to deliver, rather than them taking advantage of any interesting possibilities.

Well going against old bloated Jericho, Curtis Axel, and Miz aren't exactly ways to set the world on fire. They seem to be trying to position him as the next Daniel Bryan based on his push so far, but he isn't anywhere close to Bryan on the mic.

 

[Mahonay]

Well going against old bloated Jericho, Curtis Axel, and Miz aren't exactly ways to set the world on fire. They seem to be trying to position him as the next Daniel Bryan based on his push so far, but he isn't anywhere close to Bryan on the mic.

Lol well that's not very good since Bryan is a hokey son of a bitch on the mic.

 

[The Silver]

I really really hate how manufactured the commentary is, constantly pushing some catchphrase, some brand. None of it is organic and more than half the time they aren't even calling the match. USO CRAZY, THE LUNATIC FRINGE, stuff like that over and over.


Then you have things like talent always saying WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP every single time it's brought up, can't shorten it all, gotta say the whole fucking thing like it's A Pimp Named Slickback.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Lol well that's not very good since Bryan is a hokey son of a bitch on the mic.

Bryan can cut a good promo, but horrible wwe writing along with be forced to focus your entire promo around multiple yes chants caused them to not be as good as what they could have been. His heel mic work was super solid.


-edit- Also commentary as stated above is the worst it's ever been. Cole is horrible and can't get anything over and JBL is the worst color man I've ever listened to.

 

[funkystudent]

AJ Styles debuting at the Rumble was a good idea on paper but in practice he was always going to be a lame duck until post mania.

They have all their big plans for WM set before he ever signed a deal and was going to float around until after the big event.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I really really hate how manufactured the commentary is, constantly pushing some catchphrase, some brand. None of it is organic and more than half the time they aren't even calling the match. USO CRAZY, THE LUNATIC FRINGE, stuff like that over and over.


Then you have things like talent always saying WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP every single time it's brought up, can't shorten it all, gotta say the whole fucking thing like it's A Pimp Named Slickback.

Yep, this is huge.

The Usos can't ever get over with JBL screaming "just like their daddy" every time they have a match. It doesn't add to the show. It just grates.

 

[BoboBrazil]

AJ Styles debuting at the Rumble was a good idea on paper but in practice he was always going to be a lame duck until post mania.

They have all their big plans for WM set before he ever signed a deal and was going to float around until after the big event.

Kevin Steen and AJ could have had a short feud after the Rumble, but they have totally ignored their interaction in the rumble, which got one the loudest pops of the night and was super over.