BadAss2961
Member
MAGGLE
It's one of those moves you should only do every now and then in big matches.
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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
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It's one of those moves you should only do every now and then in big matches.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
I refuse to believe this
JesseEwiak
Member
I agree. Conor Macgregor is a big star - but he can be a big star because he's fighting other 145 pounders. If he was fighting Junior Dos Santos or Cain Valasquez, he'd get destroyed and would no longer be a star, no matter how much of a great talker he was.
Sorry, size matters to the casual fan who is no longer, no matter how much you want to ignore it.
Sorry, size matters to the casual fan who is no longer, no matter how much you want to ignore it.
BadAss2961
Member
They're ruining this dude in record time. WWE is way too used to micromanaging and manufacturing 'superstars' instead of just letting them happen naturally.
Just let him wrestle. His entire career was built off in-ring charisma and how he carries himself.
Host Samurai
Member
I disagree. Size is a plus when you're as talented as Brock or have a look like Hogan. But if you suck like Lashley and all these other bodybuilder type than you don't last long. Being big worked in the 80's because of characters, charisma and ring psychology. All that lacks today and most people have a hard time relating to those types. Plus everyone knows they're on steroids these days.
Ninja Scooter
Member
the 38 year old kid
FlammableD
Banned
m8, wrestling's fixed
spindashing
Banned
I wonder how Impact Wrestling is doing?
BoboBrazil
Member
AJ Styles needs a valet. He needs to be in a love triangle between Summer Rae and Eva Marie. He's a virgin like Daniel Bryan right?
Honestly, at this stage its best the just go full on with Roman, and fail.
It seemed to be going..better when he was engaging Vince that 1 or 2 RAW, now he has flatlined again.
Just have him beat Haitch at Mania and get booed/lukewarm response on next night RAW. This way they gave it their best (sadly) shot possible with him.
It seemed to be going..better when he was engaging Vince that 1 or 2 RAW, now he has flatlined again.
Just have him beat Haitch at Mania and get booed/lukewarm response on next night RAW. This way they gave it their best (sadly) shot possible with him.
Dark Ninja
Member
They can't even show a fireball, they are PG with no major sponsors other than tire companies. WWE is lame PG with almost no sponsors other than WWEshop.com. They need to get back Castrol GTX, Chef Boyardee, Hansen's Energy, Stacker 2, and 7-Eleven I need my AJ "Pitbull" Styles collectors cup.
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
size only matters in wrestling because vince wants it to matter
in real combat sports some of the most popular fighters of all time were of average height and size
mayweather the most popular boxer of the current era and current PPV KING [for better or worse depends who you're talking to] is 5'8" the same height as my mom
ggg is 5'10"
alvarez is 5'9"
pacquiao is 5'5" shorter than rey mysterio
all of those guys have way more name recognition to the casual fan
in real combat sports some of the most popular fighters of all time were of average height and size
mayweather the most popular boxer of the current era and current PPV KING [for better or worse depends who you're talking to] is 5'8" the same height as my mom
ggg is 5'10"
alvarez is 5'9"
pacquiao is 5'5" shorter than rey mysterio
all of those guys have way more name recognition to the casual fan
Didn't Mauro call it something else on an episode of Smackdown?
brian pillman actually looked insane when he was on camera. he looked like the kind of guy to randomly just slap someone unprovoked for no reason because he looked absolutely crazy. his eyes had a spark in them that made him super believable as a dude who had a legit mental problem.
dean ambrose looks like a guy playing a character who is insane. i'm not knocking ambrose, i actually like him and think if there wasn't such a laser precise focus on roman 24/7 that he'd be able to develop into a main event enhancement talent with occasional runs as the #1. i don't think dean can be "the guy", but he can be "one of the top guys".
they just gotta let the dude be himself. i know, we say that about pretty much all the talent, but there are a handful of guys on the show right now that if they just let them loose, even confined in PG walls, they would probably blow the roof off eventually.
i'm not sure if dean isn't believable as a crazy because he can't pull it off, or because he's not actually allowed to pull it off the way it needs to be done.
can we have psycho sid back yet
dean ambrose looks like a guy playing a character who is insane. i'm not knocking ambrose, i actually like him and think if there wasn't such a laser precise focus on roman 24/7 that he'd be able to develop into a main event enhancement talent with occasional runs as the #1. i don't think dean can be "the guy", but he can be "one of the top guys".
they just gotta let the dude be himself. i know, we say that about pretty much all the talent, but there are a handful of guys on the show right now that if they just let them loose, even confined in PG walls, they would probably blow the roof off eventually.
i'm not sure if dean isn't believable as a crazy because he can't pull it off, or because he's not actually allowed to pull it off the way it needs to be done.
can we have psycho sid back yet
What's the move called where he sprint walks over to the corner turnbuckle, leaps his foot up over to the bottom buckle, and uses it as 'momentum' to do a running splash/clothesline into the other side. I don't get it. He does it in what feels like super slow motion. That, and the outside dive. They look bad. It makes Roman's moves and setups in the ring look good in comparison.
I don't know why I didn't see it before, but Pillman is likely the perfect comparison when you want to talk about what Ambrose should be.
What is even more fucked up is that Ambrose comes from CZW. A place where with the ultraviolence theme he was allowed to be more of a lunatic fringe than he's ever been in WWE.
I want to think the writers wanted to play on his CZW background with the lunatic fringe stuff, but quickly realized they couldn't in PG.
The Lunatic Lariat.
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
JesseEwiak
Member
Actually, the WWE has more mainstream advertisers than ever. Coca Cola just sponsored the Slammy's. Short of a car sponsorship, they've hit all of Vince's Holy Grails when it comes to advertisers.
Jason Frost
Member
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Let Reigns have his Wrestlemania moment play out.
At Wrestlemania have Ambrose in Money in the Bank and win, but also an Intercontinental triple threat match
(If he still holds it)
Get Owens/AJ/Ambrose on the bill
Lose to one of them
Next Raw while Reigns is contending his match against a challenger (Kane), he gets roughed by The Authority.
Ambrose cashes in, wins.
Show a defeated Reigns just awashed with pain
Close it by Hunter laughing at him while he's going backstage
2 options
1. He surrenders to The Authority and becomes Seth 2.0
2. Breaks out of character and assaults HHH violently
Doesn't even call him HHH, but Paul.
Have him away for a few weeks and slowly bring him in as a Broken man tired of being second fiddle
Give him the anti-hero persona
Give him a stable of 2-4 wrestlers underused
Like Ziggler, Cesaro, etc.
Call them something cool for merchandising
Just have them be the thorn in HHH's way
Even though they're protecting the champ from bullshit, slowly they're starting the need to become champions themselves
Have each group pit against each other
Hell blur the fucking lines
At Wrestlemania have Ambrose in Money in the Bank and win, but also an Intercontinental triple threat match
(If he still holds it)
Get Owens/AJ/Ambrose on the bill
Lose to one of them
Next Raw while Reigns is contending his match against a challenger (Kane), he gets roughed by The Authority.
Ambrose cashes in, wins.
Show a defeated Reigns just awashed with pain
Close it by Hunter laughing at him while he's going backstage
2 options
1. He surrenders to The Authority and becomes Seth 2.0
2. Breaks out of character and assaults HHH violently
Doesn't even call him HHH, but Paul.
Have him away for a few weeks and slowly bring him in as a Broken man tired of being second fiddle
Give him the anti-hero persona
Give him a stable of 2-4 wrestlers underused
Like Ziggler, Cesaro, etc.
Call them something cool for merchandising
Just have them be the thorn in HHH's way
Even though they're protecting the champ from bullshit, slowly they're starting the need to become champions themselves
Have each group pit against each other
Hell blur the fucking lines
Vince probably likes Bryon and Maggle because they let him bully them on the headsets.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCir...sa_michael_cole_called_dean_ambroses/.compact
I watched this episode and was gob smacked. Not only was the move never cool beyond its first use, but such a miserable name speaks to the PG micromanagement of the WWE
I don't watch SD but I couldn't find what he called it in a quick google search. That being said, whatever he called it cant be worse than the wacky line
edit:
It's almost like he isn't that good of a performer, but because he isn't complete and utter dog shit he gets a push. He is the Ethan Hunt of wrestlers. No one ever called him out on being a so-so wrestler, so everyone is just like: "ok"
JesseEwiak
Member
Of course, replace Reigns in this plan w/ Bryan and Ambrose w/ Orton and the smarks would go crazy - because this is what they basically did when they did the same thing with Bryan after Summerslam. Hell, The Rhodes Brothers were Ziggler & Cesaro in this scenario.
Just shows a lot of people don't actually care about the storylines, they just care about the guys they like winning, despite the fact it's "fake."
Ravensmash
Member
Hahahaha, it's so true now that I think about it.
My favorite WWE sponsor was for the supposed uber hyper-violent Tables, Ladders and Chairs PPV brought to you by Toys R US!
Perfectly shows how tame the show is now.
Sorry friend, but Roman is very much "the guy".
The better question is what will it take for people who hate to watch this product to finally let go, and move on. It seems losing their dignity isn't enough.
funkystudent
Member
WWE seems like a real shitty company to work with if you a outside company.
Remembered that time CM Punk mentioned even when he was hot as hell after the pipebomb and getting marketing offers left and right that when he brought them to WWE management they gave those deals to random as fuck people like Eve Tores instead.
Also listening to the recent Observer podcast and they talk about how even when outside journalists are covering them and interviewing people at wrestlemania or something that they get told to not say "wrestler" but stick to Superstar and Diva. Plus all the other bs like sports entertainment and "WWE Universe" and whatever. They are lecturing outside media about that bullshit!
No wonder they find it hard to get decent marketing deals. I wonder how many companies get into talks with them. See how backwards the people running the company are and then back out.
Remembered that time CM Punk mentioned even when he was hot as hell after the pipebomb and getting marketing offers left and right that when he brought them to WWE management they gave those deals to random as fuck people like Eve Tores instead.
Also listening to the recent Observer podcast and they talk about how even when outside journalists are covering them and interviewing people at wrestlemania or something that they get told to not say "wrestler" but stick to Superstar and Diva. Plus all the other bs like sports entertainment and "WWE Universe" and whatever. They are lecturing outside media about that bullshit!
No wonder they find it hard to get decent marketing deals. I wonder how many companies get into talks with them. See how backwards the people running the company are and then back out.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Yeah, that move Ambrose does where he just bounces between the middle ropes and then back in is awfully weird to watch. Him doing it twice in the Royal Rumble in a close span didn't help matters.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I've been gone for awhile. Has the roster split ended?
Yeah, that's ridiculous. The Superstar/Diva branding is actually a good thing (minus the Diva's title naming) but micromanagement is a disaster.
loooooooooooooooooooooong ago
Smackdown is now just side missions for the b squad.
It's like, people like Roman Reigns, pretty much. But what you see on TV, how much of that is actually Roman Reigns?
Yeah mang, I did it, feels good. I got more time to watch shows I actually like. With ratings going down I think I'm not the only one.
You know, it's real fucking easy to rag on people wanting the characters they like to win when you just bandwagon for whoever is booked to always win. Duhhhhh.
Ravensmash
Member
Honestly I think the biggest barrier to a lot of people now is the ridiculous run time.
Raw does not need to be three and a quarter hours.
As someone who can't watch Raw live, I have no desire to sit through 3+ hours of filler, advertising breaks on spare time. Id imagine that a lot of people feel the same way.
That silly run time, combined with WWE putting up a fairly comprehensive highlight package on YouTube almost immediately, probably adds a lot of fatigue to the product as a whole.
Recently I've been getting my Raw fix from Whatculture's WTF moments of the week.
When it's easier to consume your show through a series of gifs - and not feel like you're missing out on much (and if I am, youtube is there for me) then that's an issue.
Raw does not need to be three and a quarter hours.
As someone who can't watch Raw live, I have no desire to sit through 3+ hours of filler, advertising breaks on spare time. Id imagine that a lot of people feel the same way.
That silly run time, combined with WWE putting up a fairly comprehensive highlight package on YouTube almost immediately, probably adds a lot of fatigue to the product as a whole.
Recently I've been getting my Raw fix from Whatculture's WTF moments of the week.
When it's easier to consume your show through a series of gifs - and not feel like you're missing out on much (and if I am, youtube is there for me) then that's an issue.
Dark Ninja
Member
WERE IN OVERTIME Micheal!
Really doesn't help, especially when so much of it is repetition and advertising.
Host Samurai
Member
The Attitude era lacked bodybuilders which was great. Can you imagine the backlash if WWE went with Broccus over Austin?
Since then we got Brock who is a freak and possibly one of the greatest talents ever. Batista who was average at best, Masters was horrible, Lashley sucked and Ryback is stiff as hell.
I don't see this changing in the future. The fans LOVED Punk & Bryan and AJ seems like he will be over too. How can I forget Zayn?
If I was Vince I'd make Fin Balor "the guy". He is ridiculouly marketable and an amazing talent.
People these days tend to like workers. Remember how over RVD was in 2001? Was arguably more over than Austin and was even told to tone down his move set. Took WWE too long to pull the trigger on him.
Since then we got Brock who is a freak and possibly one of the greatest talents ever. Batista who was average at best, Masters was horrible, Lashley sucked and Ryback is stiff as hell.
I don't see this changing in the future. The fans LOVED Punk & Bryan and AJ seems like he will be over too. How can I forget Zayn?
If I was Vince I'd make Fin Balor "the guy". He is ridiculouly marketable and an amazing talent.
People these days tend to like workers. Remember how over RVD was in 2001? Was arguably more over than Austin and was even told to tone down his move set. Took WWE too long to pull the trigger on him.
Ravensmash
Member
It's also silly that PPVs end up having a shorter run time than the show it's building from...
TheWarrior
Banned
When RAW was 2 hours the overtime meant something, but usually it was just that 5 minutes extra. Or the go home show to Mania and it went over 10-15 minutes. It's pointless now, they can barely fill 3 hours of programming they don't need to extend it another 10 minutes.
yep. my wife and i are currently running through the monday night wars (the actual raw/nitro episodes, not the series). we just watch a couple a night while skimming the weak segments, but we watch NXT religiously. We usually watch the New Day clips on youtube after they go up, then bail on the main product until PPV time.
the episodes of RAW that have the bonus "crowd go home happy" stuff after a heel has won at the end of the show are great. no commentary, just faces running rampant for the crowd after the show is over.
you haven't TRULY experienced bailey's entrance until you've seen it under the influence of certain natural herbs. it's a life experience.
UberTag
Member
Roman will have to get injured. Or make a pass at Stephanie. Possibly both.
That's the million dollar question, right there. Lucha Underground, NXT, New Japan, Ring of Honor, UFC... there are countless alternatives out there for a superior product that will likely appeal to someone should they bother to take the time to seek them out.
Ambrose said himself that he hasn't liked a single promo he's done in the WWE. It's too scripted for him.
I kinda love this one from Dragon Gate: https://youtu.be/eKlz261mL00
You can't go calling Flop Lesnar one of the best ever, and then badmouth Big Daddy Dave in the same breath. Brotista was better than anything Barack has done in his career, even if it was a mere 6 months that we were allowed to witness such greatness.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Ahh, okay... Of course Vince wouldn't let an angle breathe. It's funny how so many ended up agreeing that it was a mistake to bring Punk back so soon, it's just an example of how Vince doesn't learn from history or the patience to really let much build unless maybe it's for WrestleMania. Maybe his issues are why he thinks the audience has the attention span and memory of a gnat.
I've seen him as basically the product of if Austin, Piper and Pillman could have a baby but leave it to WWE to fuck up something that should've been a sure thing. As I already have said, someone like a Stone Cold Steve Austin or The Rock would even be allowed to break out today in WWE's creatively stifling environment.
They fucked up with Ambrose pretty much immediately with that Rollins feud and the stupid left over DX paint in the briefcase thing and all that kiddy friendly shit.
I guess if there's an area where PG is hurting them is that no one really gets angry, no one is truly aggressive or really violent anymore except for Brock but they still do the chickenshit thing with him.
I've hated that spot from the second time I saw him do it, IIRC I first saw him do it at a PPV and then the very next night he did it again and I was done with it. Cena had a bit of that too with repeated the throwing of ring steps spot It's stupid looking and makes zero sense and shouldn't be in anyone's regular repertoire.
On leaked memos, the one from 2008 and came out a few years ago on Reddit got recycled last year.
ratcliffja
Member
I actually don't have a problem with most of those memos. Choke holds are supposed to be illegal, so having an actual move be called a choke is kind of dumb. In that way, if they ever do want to have somebody getting choked, it could be a bigger deal and clearly illegal. The 5 star match/match of the year stuff should be determined by the fans anyway and not shoved down our throats by the announcers. In fact, I wish they would apply that philosophy to other areas and stop having everything sound so scripted and unauthentic.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I love the idea that Vince is worried about Wrestlemania seeming dated mean while booking HHH to headline it.
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