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[JesseEwiak]

So since you're not a gimmick, you're just an asshole with stupid shit to say at every predictable turn.

What is false? Roman's a great worker by any measure, he's not a worse promo than other IWC darlings, and frankly, he isn't being pushed hard enough and has taken too many losses.

Once you account for that, there's only two reasons left.

1.) He hasn't "earned" his spot by wrestling in front of 500 fans and breaking his neck doing so for a decade.

2.) He took away Bryan's WM spot.

 

[Dark Ninja]

I also don't buy Bray vs Orton happening. Do you honestly think Vince is only going to give Cena a 2 week long title reign when he could have Cena going into Mania a champ?

I believe Cena is about to go film a movie or something and wont be around that much. Yeah its likely he'll lose at Elimination Chamber especially they can protect him by taking 10 finishers.

 

[Tom Nook]

Fucking!

(Botchmania intro)

 

[GravityInsanity]

Here guys.
John Cena vs Randy Orton - Once in a Lifetime

 

[slightconfuse]

I also don't buy Bray vs Orton happening. Do you honestly think Vince is only going to give Cena a 2 week long title reign when he could have Cena going into Mania a champ?

Look at the booking for the women's title an raw tho

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is my honest opinion. Bryan was already broken. Have Triple H fuck him over like they did, put control of the WWE on the line in a WM match, have him beat Triple H, do the face GM thing for a while with somebody like Foley or whoever.

Meanwhile, have your WWE Champion also be on every late night show in the country while he's in the #1 movie in the country.

Everybody wins.

Batista worked 100 times better in the Evolution reunion which cemented the Shield.

 

[sora87]

I can't believe people are still hating on Roman in 2017. Dude had a great night. And he didn't even win and people are still unhappy.

He's become the poster boy of all vince's fuck ups sadly. It'll never end, especially when we get shit like tonight.

 

[Evening Musuko]

Don't know if it's sarcasm but something boring like that is exactly what would happen.

I'm being half serious, I don't have much faith in creative. WWE ppvs are just background noise for me these days though, so if it gets boring I'll just do something else.

 

[Anth0ny]

I also don't buy Bray vs Orton happening. Do you honestly think Vince is only going to give Cena a 2 week long title reign when he could have Cena going into Mania a champ?

same

orton vs cena 90890809832313423 is the safer choice and the bigger match for the casual fan

 

[JesseEwiak]

Batista worked 100 times better in the Evolution reunion which cemented the Shield.

I mean, you can still turn him heel or whatever. It's not like Jimmy Kimmel or Ellen gives a fuck whether a guy is a face or a heel.

And plus, if for some reason, Bryan hasn't killed himself by Summerslam, put the belt on him there. Or whenever.

 

[Morfeo]

I'll toss in Fatal 4 way (Swann, Neville, Tyler Bate, Gallagher)
And the Andre Battle Royal (won by Stroman)

Rollins-Trips

Yeah, and then I think we have the whole card (including preshow):

Andre the Giant Battle Royal
Multi team Raw tag team match
Multi team Smackdown tag team match
Four way for Crusierweight title
Multi women match for Smackdown title
Big Show vs Shaq

Show proper:
Four way for the Raw Woman title (Nia, Bayley; Sasha and Charlotte)
Multi smackdown roster for Intercontinental title (Dean, Miz etc)
Jericho vs Owens for US title
Lesnar vs Goldberg for the Universal title
Bray vs Orton for title
Joe vs Cena
AJ vs Shane
Rollins vs HHH for revenge
Roman vs Undertaker for #makestrong

This is probably too many matches, the smackdown tag team titles are probably not being defended then, and maybe they combine AJ, Joe and Cena, and relegate the intercontinental title to the preshow?

 

[Heroman]

No, don't you understand, Sami Zayn (the goofy guy wearing the beret type of hat), Cesaro (the guy who looks like a third rate Jason Statham), and Kevin Owens (the fat dude who fell through shit) are awesome! Cause they have movez!

.

Dude what are talking about?

 

[orioto]

Nope. Watch his match against Rollins on the Raw after Survivor Series. Absolutely fantastic work.

there was a Zayn match to, but they weren't important. I forgot about the Rollins one to be honest. I remember their firts really bad ppv, and the second that was starting well but was cut short by Jericho.

Anyway what i mean is, i'm certainly wrong ok, and they can change their mind every 2 days anyway, but the raw's ending from 2 weeks ago, some of his promos and the way he took so many heroic bumps (i know i know but that's my wrestling understanding of dramaturgy. The good guy is the one who suffers the most, or it should be...) make me feel they're.. at least, less trying to make him unbearable to smarks.

They've been trying to make Owens boring, on the mic and in the ring, for months, to kill his smark face reaction. Less jokes, slow promos etc.. Endless restholds, way less spots.. It seems to me that's the only way they could create a heel Owens. Heel owens disappoint his indie fans.

Owens saying he wants to prove he's still a prize fighter and doing indie bumps. Face Owens or at least transitioning... But they could well go the other way tomorow night..

 

[HeavenlyE]

One of my biggest issues was Brock getting eliminated then apparently crying his way to the back, I was expecting him to atleast cost Goldberg the match or attack him after Goldberg gets eliminated. It's been over 2 months and I'm not sure if Lesnar has even punched Goldberg once so how do you justify a Wrestlemania rematch.

 

[Chopper]

Kurt Angle was never going to be in the Royal Rumble.

Whatever. Anyone but Reigns.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

maybe they combine AJ, Joe and Cena

would legit pay a sub to see Cena replace Christopher Daniels.

 

[Evening Musuko]

I can't believe people are still hating on Roman in 2017. Dude had a great night. And he didn't even win and people are still unhappy.

I liked his match with Owens but he's damaged goods honestly. He's been the same guy since he started getting shit on 2 years ago so of course people are still going to boo him.

Either they need to tweak his character to get people to cheer him or turn him heel and let people boo him until they start liking him.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I still just can't imagine them going to that lengths. Granted, I'm a Bray mark but having Orton destroy the family then go over Bray would just be...inexcusable.

I'm also a Bray mark. That's why I know this is how WWE books Bray.

 

[Dr Duncan Steel]

This is my honest opinion. Bryan was already broken. Have Triple H fuck him over like they did, put control of the WWE on the line in a WM match, have him beat Triple H, do the face GM thing for a while with somebody like Foley or whoever.

Meanwhile, have your WWE Champion also be on every late night show in the country while he's in the #1 movie in the country.

Everybody wins.

You really think Batista winning the title at Mania that year wasn't going to create any type of backlash? Like I get the appeal of a heel Rock archetype in Batista doing late night circuits heeling it up when Rock didn't, but that wasn't the story that was needed right now. Also, you are putting too many eggs in the hindsight basket in terms of Bryan's condition.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

What are the chances we at least see Strowman and Joe at WM?

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

What are the chances we at least see Strowman and Joe at WM?

Joe's never making it on the main roster.

 

[orioto]

Joe's never making it on the main roster.

Haaa come on Vince, just put a shirt on him

 

[JesseEwiak]

You really think Batista winning the title at Mania that year wasn't going to create any type of backlash? Like I get the appeal of a heel Rock archetype in Batista doing late night circuits heeling it up when Rock didn't, but that wasn't the story that was needed right now. Also, you are putting too many eggs in the hindsight basket in terms of Bryan's condition.

The backlash is baked in at this point. Whatever they do, unless it involves the IWC favorite of the week winning every match and defeating Roman and Cena clean that week, about 40% of their current audience will think Vince personally hates them. They could've created a story, had Bryan cut a promo about how he doesn't care about the title anymore, he just wants to take Triple H out. You could've even had a cool story with Triple H out of power recreating Evolution because he has too.

But, they keep on watching. It's the casual fans that are leaving due to the bad booking and lack of stars. The hardcore is still watching, whining on social media, and creating hashtags they can't back up.

You know when Vince should be worried? Once the Big 4 PPV's don't sell out (or in the case of the Rumble, sell more tickets than every other non-WM show in wrestling).

 

[Angry Grimace]

Joe's never making it on the main roster.

They didn't sign Joe to just spend money for no reason. Meltzer has been specifically saying they've been exploring what to do with Joe.

 

[TimeEffect]

Orton winning has soured me on AJ losing even more.

Fuck Cena for getting his win back and making AJ look like a tool for 3 weeks. What the hell is the pay off here?

Guys like Dean and AJ work their asses off, while Dean gets tossed out... AJ has a great match but we dont even know if he has a solid match for Mania. I dont even know if I want to see Cena/AJ again. Feels like they'll throw away AJ's rematch in the Chamber and have them move on from each other.

Dean holds the IC title, which is such a "we like you but we dont know what else to do" move. If he gets tossed into a ladder match, it will be such crap.

Dude deserves to be having matches with Cena, Taker, etc. But somehow, Smackdown's Taker is being built up to face... Roman?

And is Braun/Roman supposed to be some blow off match to make Roman look strong heading into Mania?

Roman was made to look Orton's win go over well, and I dont care about his heat. It's not good heat to hate him, because people already hate him and we dont need him coming at #30 to do that.

Joe is probably not debuting until after Mania... unless they just toss him into the Chamber. Also, if Orton/Wyatt main events, I cant find myself caring for it either. Orton is fine in the mid card, and so is Wyatt because he has continuously looked like a big loser. Getting tossed by Roman just solidified that

 

[LiQuid!]

I know why people hate him. Its stupid. The guy is fine.

He is totally fine. I hate him.

 

[VoxPop]

Haaa come on Vince, just put a shirt on him

or a "bulletproof" vest with a superhero logo!

 

[Mighty Chin]

What is false? Roman's a great worker by any measure, he's not a worse promo than other IWC darlings, and frankly, he isn't being pushed hard enough and has taken too many losses.

Once you account for that, there's only two reasons left.

1.) He hasn't "earned" his spot by wrestling in front of 500 fans and breaking his neck doing so for a decade.

2.) He took away Bryan's WM spot.

They've not given us a reason to cheer for him. There is zero emotional investment.

 

[ReiGun]

I dont think the hate is directly at roman. Its through him, at Vince for pushing roman still to the milky way. hes a good worker. no charisma though.

Pretty much this. Roman himself is fine (his biggest weakness is mic work, but he's good in the ring), and a lot of people really want to give him a chance. It's the way Vince uses him that pisses people off.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean, you can still turn him heel or whatever. It's not like Jimmy Kimmel or Ellen gives a fuck whether a guy is a face or a heel.

And plus, if for some reason, Bryan hasn't killed himself by Summerslam, put the belt on him there. Or whenever.

No one wanted to see Batista vs Orton at Mania.

Also remember Lesnar beat the streak that night. Do you know how dead the crowd would have been without Bryan?

 

[Tom Nook]

What was the point of having Braun ruining Roman's match?

If Roman gets a second chance for a title shot in the Rumble, why can't AJ be in it too instead of Enzo or Apollo?

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

When people say Roman's good in ring I don't get it in the same way I don't get when people say Cena matches are good, the difference being that whilst Cena matches consist of a wide range of moves Roman's matches consist of him punching people.

 

[orioto]

It's not the hate for Roman, it's the hate for fake things. Wrestling works when things feel real.

Having him being the guys who has to overcome the odds when it's so obvious he IS the company guy makes the character unbearable.

He's basically the real life version of Rollins character when he was a champ.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

When people say Roman's good in ring I don't get it in the same way I don't get when people say Cena matches are good, the difference being that whilst Cena matches consist of a wide range of moves Roman's matches consist of him punching people.

Cena's matches also bring a big weekend fight feeling to it.

 

[International Iron Man]

Pretty much this. Roman himself is fine (his biggest weakness is mic work, but he's good in the ring), and a lot of people really want to give him a chance. It's the way Vince uses him that pisses people off.

The biggest issue is that Vince is trying to build another Cena with Reigns, but that doesn't work when you still have Cena around.

 

[ShadyK54]

On the way home from the Dome.

Just....ugh. Of COURSE Roman comes out at #30 because OF COURSE. To me it didn't even make any sense from a storyline perspective. I could've accepted it if he attacked someone backstage to get in, but nope. Just a lot of "ugh".

I'm pretty sure I felt the energy just get sucked out of the arena when his music hit. Those "this is bullshit" chants were warranted lol.

Still, I had tons of fun. Can't wait for the next San Antonio PPV in about X amount of years.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No, don't you understand, Sami Zayn (the goofy guy wearing the beret type of hat), Cesaro (the guy who looks like a third rate Jason Statham), and Kevin Owens (the fat dude who fell through shit) are awesome! Cause they have movez!

Are you a literal child?

Owens also cuts great promos...soooo he can work and talk but you still hate him cause he's fat?

 

[Officerrob]

This version of Reigns is tainted, period. He's fine in the ring, awful at promos, etc, we all know that. But the continued forced push that has the stench of "Vince's guy" all over it is going to keep getting the same reaction until they do SOMETHING different with him.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

I'll have more of a rant later when I feel like it, but this is all I have to say on the matter right now:

Vince: Why is everyone so upset? They wanted a Samoan named Joe! I gave them what they wanted!

 

[orioto]

The biggest issue is that Vince is trying to build another Cena with Reigns, but that doesn't work when you still have Cena around.

And that new Cena has 2% of Cena's ability to create excitement when talking or wrestling..

 

[ReiGun]

I will give them credit for actually doing the "Tye comes out at number 10" spot. I was certain they'd tell fans to fuck off and give it to Rhyno or somebody.

 

[Kaiterra]

It's not the hate for Roman, it's the hate for fake things. Wrestling works when things feel real.

Having him being the guys who has to overcome the odds when it's so obvious he IS the company guy makes the character unbearable.

He's basically the real life version of Rollins character when he was a champ.

This. Roman was the one who got the first world title opportunity handed right to him when the Shield broke up and then spent an eternity as the main event. It never felt like a progression, it was just Shield breaks up -> He's the guy.

 

[Toki767]

When people say Roman's good in ring I don't get it in the same way I don't get when people say Cena matches are good, the difference being that whilst Cena matches consist of a wide range of moves Roman's matches consist of him punching people.

Reigns' matches and shortcomings are constantly heavily hidden by being put in the ring with people who could have a match with a broom and make it be enjoyable.

I have yet to see a "big time" Reigns match that did not involve a table breaking.

 

[Takashi]

What is false? Roman's a great worker by any measure, he's not a worse promo than other IWC darlings, and frankly, he isn't being pushed hard enough and has taken too many losses.

Once you account for that, there's only two reasons left.

1.) He hasn't "earned" his spot by wrestling in front of 500 fans and breaking his neck doing so for a decade.

2.) He took away Bryan's WM spot.

lmao

I got back into wrestling after bryan left so I had no investment with that whole thing

and I can still see why people would hate someone with awful mic skills being pushed as the next cena

 

[International Iron Man]

And that new Cena has 2% of Cena's ability to create excitement when talking or wrestling..

Exactly.

What's the point of a poor mans Cena when you have actual Cena around?

 

[JesseEwiak]

When people say Roman's good in ring I don't get it in the same way I don't get when people say Cena matches are good, the difference being that whilst Cena matches consist of a wide range of moves Roman's matches consist of him punching people.

Because wrestling is about more than how many moves you do.

Some of the greatest matches in history involved nothing more than Jerry Lawler doing punches, kicks, a fistdrop, and a piledriver.

lmao

I got back into wrestling after bryan left so I had no investment with that whole thing

and I can still see why people would hate someone with awful mic skills being pushed as the next cena

I mean, I could agree with that, if people weren't championing other people like Rollins, Zayn, Cesaro, etc. who are also terrible on the mic.

Like, the people who want AJ to main event everything? That's a perfectly reasonable argument.

Hell, even Ambrose I can get even though he's kind of mediocre in the ring.

 

[Lothar]

Were there really no surprise entrants in the Rumble?

Remember that great video that showed all of the surprise people in the Rumble from 2008-present? I guess they'll just skip this year.

 

[Rhaknar]

This version of Reigns is tainted, period. He's fine in the ring, awful at promos, etc, we all know that. But the continued forced push that has the stench of "Vince's guy" all over it is going to keep getting the same reaction until they do SOMETHING different with him.

he's as tainted as Rocky Maivia was, but they changed Rocky and the rest is history, they didnt refuse to change the character and shove him down people's throats no matter the reactions.

Thats what I dont get,

 

[blackaroni]

Roman lost the title match and the Rumble and y'all are still talking about him.

 

[UberTag]

Congrats on your win, UberTag.

This was redemption from this debacle 5 years ago tonight when Jericho was robbed of his rightful Rumble win despite being the landslide favorite only for Sheamus to emerge from his feud with Jinder Mahal, toss him out and shock the world.

Thank you O Sage Meltzer for reclaiming my WrassleGAF lottery win from the ashes of that past injustice.