Support NeoGAF

[rm082e]

I don't think Gamepass has failed. It may be stagnant...but treading water isn't drowning.

It is to Xbox management. They expected to be much further ahead than they are, and the attempts they've made to increase subs have gone nowhere. They were selling the Series consoles at a discount last holiday with "free" Game Pass, and they didn't sell.

If it's not growing, they'll kill it and invest the money in other areas of the business they expect to have more growth. They're not going to sit on a stagnant, underperforming line of business any longer than it takes for them to pivot.

 

[DrFigs]

I'm not quite sure I understand the argument that 2 skus has devalued xbox as a whole. If xbox had this brilliant idea for a super power console as their main product, but also wanted to have this cheaper option... and then the cheaper option is their primary seller. In some sense, it's a success isn't it? The series s has overperformed and I think (i don't have the numbers) that it's the main driver of xbox sales right now. If anything, I think they probably should have focused more on the series s as a secondary console for ps5/switch owners.

I don't think this would've worked because of xbox's support for pc gaming (why would anyone buy their console if all the games are on pc anyway) - but that's a separate issue. the fact that they have a series s i think has been a net benefit for the brand.

 

[Unknown?]

Abyssmal...what do you expect? That it's gonna sell as much as it did as a brand new release? Even if the PC players never played Horizon or God of War before...we certainly have heard of it and the honeymoon period had long past. To me it just lends more of an argument for Playstation to bring games day and date to PC. Strike while the iron is hot.

Riiiight... If PC gamers cared so little that they wouldn't buy a console for some games, what makes you think they would care when it releases? Before, same time, after, it doesn't matter to the PC gamer.

 

[Jigsaah]

Riiiight... If PC gamers cared so little that they wouldn't buy a console for some games, what makes you think they would care when it releases? Before, same time, after, it doesn't matter to the PC gamer.

I just think that the hype has died down by time these games get to PC, which affects sales.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

It is to Xbox management. They expected to be much further ahead than they are, and the attempts they've made to increase subs have gone nowhere. They were selling the Series consoles at a discount last holiday with "free" Game Pass, and they didn't sell.

If it's not growing, they'll kill it and invest the money in other areas of the business they expect to have more growth. They're not going to sit on a stagnant, underperforming line of business any longer than it takes for them to pivot.

I think Microsoft is just stuck between a rock and a hard place. They expect the industry to grow massively through Cloud gaming and/or AI in the next 5-10 years. That is their bet. And that could make Gamepass much more viable down the line, but them abandoning Gamepass now would kill their brand immeasurably. Even if Gamepass is operating at a loss, I think Microsoft is OK with that if they can expand profits in other ways, like going multi-platform. They are just biding time until a massive shift in the industry occurs

 

[Jigsaah]

I think Microsoft is just stuck between a rock and a hard place. They expect the industry to grow massively through Cloud gaming and/or AI in the next 5-10 years. That is their bet. And that could make Gamepass much more viable down the line, but them abandoning Gamepass now would kill their brand immeasurably. Even if Gamepass is operating at a loss, I think Microsoft is OK with that if they can expand profits in other ways, like going multi-platform. They are just biding time until a massive shift in the industry occurs

Microsoft historically has had terrible timing. Remember that always online thing back in the Xbox One reveal. Look where we are now. Microsoft gets shit on for it...they try to back track it...and then the industry ends up there anyways.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ok, first...maybe we're not talking about the same strategy.

I'm talking about Xbox bringing games to PS5 specficially. I literally...

strategy:
Strategy is a plan to reach a goal by making choices and using resources effectively.

pivot:
In a business context, a pivot refers to a significant change in strategy or direction, often in response to market feedback or changing circumstances

difference between strategy and pivot:
In essence, strategy sets the initial course of action, while pivoting involves adjusting that course in response to new information or challenges.

I dunno where you get 8 years from...It hasn't even been 8 weeks.

2016 + 8 = 2024.

2 Sku's devalued Xbox as a whole...that I can agree with. Check my post history...I've already said this. The Series S was this generations achilles' heel.

that's one aspect of the whole strategy that started 8 years ago.

I don't think Gamepass has failed. It may be stagnant...but treading water isn't drowning.

compounded effect:
cumulative impact of small actions or changes over time, which results in a significant or magnified outcome


1. release game day one on PC (started on 2016)
had an impact of 1/3 on console sales, which decrease the incentive for peole to buy your console therefore reducing your market share and 30% cut.

2. Game Pass/ecosystem:
Discourages people to BUY games. with an already smaller install base further damages the money making economy inside your ecosystems

3. 2Skus
you already talk about it.

4. acquistion of studios and zenimax
the idea of producing high quality/high profile content to make your plarform/service more attractive.

MS has been incapable to make this happen... wait for next E3/Next year and when they release a game is disappointing; this damages the brand and Xbox keeps selling less and GP no growing (even lose subscribers)

conclusion:

strategy:
day one on PC + Game Pass + ecosystem + acquisitions =

1. Xbox is selling even less consoles
2. GP is not growing and even loosing subs
3. acquisitions are not producing the necessary content
4. Xbox is not profitable = not making money.

Pivot:
put your games in competing platform. (PS5/switch)

 

[DrFigs]

Microsoft historically has had terrible timing. Remember that always online thing back in the Xbox One reveal. Look where we are now. Microsoft gets shit on for it...they try to back track it...and then the industry ends up there anyways.

I think we're still not there yet. AFAIK i can play my ps5 offline right now without checking in.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Ok, first...maybe we're not talking about the same strategy. I'm talking about Xbox bringing games to PS5 specficially. I literally...I dunno where you get 8 years from...It hasn't even been 8 weeks.

2 Sku's devalued Xbox as a whole...that I can agree with. Check my post history...I've already said this. The Series S was this generations achilles' heel.

I don't think Gamepass has failed. It may be stagnant...but treading water isn't drowning.

Gamepass has absolutely failed and it will continue to lose subscribers. Xbox consoles sales have fallen off a cliff. There is nobody to sell Gamepass to. Streamers aren't going to subscribe. PC Gamers would rather use Steam.

I, for one, couldn't be more grateful of Gamepass failure. It was doomed to fail. There was simply no way they had a prayers chance of reaching the subscriber count needed to be sustainable.

Good riddance.

 

[Alan Wake]

When is the last time you saw any marketing for Xbox consoles?

It seems they're not even interested in selling consoles anymore.

 

[Jigsaah]

strategy:
Strategy is a plan to reach a goal by making choices and using resources effectively.

pivot:
In a business context, a pivot refers to a significant change in strategy or direction, often in response to market feedback or changing circumstances

difference between strategy and pivot:
In essence, strategy sets the initial course of action, while pivoting involves adjusting that course in response to new information or challenges.

2016 + 8 = 2024.



that's one aspect of the whole strategy that started 8 years ago.


compounded effect:
cumulative impact of small actions or changes over time, which results in a significant or magnified outcome


1. release game day one on PC (started on 2016)
had an impact of 1/3 on console sales, which decrease the incentive for peole to buy your console therefore reducing your market share and 30% cut.

2. Game Pass/ecosystem:
Discourages people to BUY games. with an already smaller install base further damages the money making economy inside your ecosystems

3. 2Skus
you already talk about it.

4. acquistion of studios and zenimax
the idea of producing high quality/high profile content to make your plarform/service more attractive.

MS has been incapable to make this happen... wait for next E3/Next year and when they release a game is disappointing; this damages the brand and Xbox keeps selling less and GP no growing (even lose subscribers)

conclusion:

strategy:
day one on PC + Game Pass + ecosystem + acquisitions =

1. Xbox is selling even less consoles
2. GP is not growing and even loosing subs
3. acquisitions are not producing the necessary content
4. Xbox is not profitable = not making money.

Pivot:
put your games in competing platform. (PS5/switch)

You're going way beyond the scope of what I was talking about. You responded to me, correct? So why are you talking about things that I'm not talking about?

I'm not saying you're wrong on anything you're saying. You're over here posting humungous images of articles when a simple link would do. It's really odd.

Just to remind you, I'm talking about putting games on PS5...and the ABK deal...which is what this thread is mainly referring to. This earnings call...for this quarter...that's 3 months at most.

Calm down dude. You're fanboy is unzipped.

 

[Alan Wake]

It's almost Wii U numbers at this point.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'm not quite sure I understand the argument that 2 skus has devalued xbox as a whole. If xbox had this brilliant idea for a super power console as their main product, but also wanted to have this cheaper option... and then the cheaper option is their primary seller. In some sense, it's a success isn't it? The series s has overperformed and I think (i don't have the numbers) that it's the main driver of xbox sales right now. If anything, I think they probably should have focused more on the series s as a secondary console for ps5/switch owners.

I don't think this would've worked because of xbox's support for pc gaming (why would anyone buy their console if all the games are on pc anyway) - but that's a separate issue. the fact that they have a series s i think has been a net benefit for the brand.

In what sense? They are continuing to loses console sales every single month. Having that lower tier model made it impossible for XBox to move on and force developers to support the lower tier version. With console sales being so low and software sales being so low due to many users being conditioned to not buy games since due to Gamepass.

There has literally been nothing successful about having a lower tier model.

 

[DrFigs]

In what sense? They are continuing to loses console sales every single month. Having that lower tier model made it impossible for XBox to move on and force developers to support the lower tier version. With console sales being so low and software sales being so low due to many users being conditioned to not buy games since due to Gamepass.

There has literally been nothing successful about having a lower tier model.

I'm saying the alternative isn't that the series x is a massive success. I think the alternative is that xbox just sells less consoles overall if it weren't for the series s.

I think the focus on gamepass is a separate issue. There's no doubt Phil and the other guys at Xbox have just been making one mistake after another.

 

[rm082e]

I think Microsoft is just stuck between a rock and a hard place. They expect the industry to grow massively through Cloud gaming and/or AI in the next 5-10 years. That is their bet. And that could make Gamepass much more viable down the line, but them abandoning Gamepass now would kill their brand immeasurably. Even if Gamepass is operating at a loss, I think Microsoft is OK with that if they can expand profits in other ways, like going multi-platform. They are just biding time until a massive shift in the industry occurs

I don't know why anyone would expect cloud streaming or AI to play any significant role in the industry. If that's their plan, they're even worse off any anyone thought...

Cloud streaming - they already built their cloud gaming network. To my understanding, almost no one is using it as their only access to Xbox games. From the ABK court case, we saw the leaked emails where Spencer was saying it's neat technology, but there's no way to turn it into a product that people want to pay for. The kids want games running on their phones and tablets. The adults want consoles and PCs. No one wants to pay for a subscription to cloud gaming. If they did, they would be doing it already.

Sony tried pushing PS Now a few years ago and no one cared. It's now been relegated to a bonus feature on a subscription that people don't bother to use. NVIDIA's GeForce Now is the most used network, but it hasn't got anywhere near enough subscribers to pose a threat to Steam, GOG, Epic, etc.

As for AI - what is it going to do for games exactly? Are we talking about some AI running in the cloud that the games rely on in real time? If so, then it has the same problem as the cloud streaming tech.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I'm not quite sure I understand the argument that 2 skus has devalued xbox as a whole. If xbox had this brilliant idea for a super power console as their main product, but also wanted to have this cheaper option... and then the cheaper option is their primary seller. In some sense, it's a success isn't it? The series s has overperformed and I think (i don't have the numbers) that it's the main driver of xbox sales right now. If anything, I think they probably should have focused more on the series s as a secondary console for ps5/switch owners.

I don't think this would've worked because of xbox's support for pc gaming (why would anyone buy their console if all the games are on pc anyway) - but that's a separate issue. the fact that they have a series s i think has been a net benefit for the brand.

It depends of how you see the situation and what was Xbox and Microsoft sales ambitions before 2020. The whay I see it, they wanted to be better than the Xbox one. 2 skus have been presented as a frontal assault against the PS5, and not have the same problem that the One got at launch: be a weaker console that cost more than the PS4. Because they lost the generation against Sony AND Nintendo, they knew that they had to find a way to get back on top somehow. They know that the console market is very sensible to price. So because having only one sku would mean have a uphill battle against their competitors and that each choice would lead them to huge problems they IMHO tried to have they cake and eat it. They needed a strong console to go against Sony because loosing again in power would not only hurt them but also make them loose the industry support that helped them so much, especially the western devs that need strong consoles for their marketing. But they knew that only a cheap console would work with their Gamepass ambitions, and that they knew with the Switch that a huge market exist for a cheap side console.

Now is the Series S/X a success or a failure? FOR ME, it was doomed to fail the instant that we got a 400$ PS5. Because it make the Series X too costly for no good reason, and the Series S too underpowered as you can get 3x better for just 100$ more. I know that each console have their advantages, and that the PS5 digital edition did not sell that much. But this lead me to the bigger problem. COVID. It made consoles harder and costlier to make, and that hurt Microsoft more than Sony, because IMHO Sony made a cheaper console that is considered as good if not better than their competitor. So now we have consoles that sold less than the Xbox One combined, and because there is 2 skus instead of 1 it was harder for Microsoft to find a good way to create a slim version of both. So they loose even more money and can't make the consoles cheap enough to get demand at a good level, and that lead to even less demand... For me, they should have made the Xbox Series X a beast, with more RAM and push the TF more if they could. It would have given them the edge on third parties and they have planned to loose money on the consoles anyway. The Series S problem is fondamentally that it is a Xbox console, because if it was a Nintendo one can you imagine how good it would sell? As the underdog Xbox is in a hard place, and the S don't help them, or not as much as they have planned when we have 50+ millions of PS5 out there.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'm saying the alternative isn't that the series x is a massive success. I think the alternative is that xbox just sells less consoles overall if it weren't for the series s.

I think the focus on gamepass is a separate issue. There's no doubt Phil and the other guys at Xbox have just been making one mistake after another.

Yeah, that alternative would have been better actually. Is the XSX had been the only console things might be better. I will happily argue that XSS selling more than the XSX is a huge net negative. My guess was that MS didn't expect to sell that many of the XSS and that they could discontinue it rather easily. If you recall the emails Spencer sent, they expected the XSX to be a massive success.

Now, they're stuck with it.

 

[MrTired]

It is to Xbox management. They expected to be much further ahead than they are, and the attempts they've made to increase subs have gone nowhere. They were selling the Series consoles at a discount last holiday with "free" Game Pass, and they didn't sell.

If it's not growing, they'll kill it and invest the money in other areas of the business they expect to have more growth. They're not going to sit on a stagnant, underperforming line of business any longer than it takes for them to pivot.

I think it went under the radar that this was the first quarter that Microsoft never mentioned Gamepass revenue going up.

Which we can infer that Subscription numbers and/or revenue has decreased. In previous quarters they mentioned

Gamepass offsetting decrease software & content sells, this isn't the case anymore.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You're going way beyond the scope of what I was talking about. You responded to me, correct?

are you Jigsaah right? is so, yes I'm replying to you point by point.

So why are you talking about things that I'm not talking about?

Ok, first...maybe we're not talking about the same strategy. I'm talking about Xbox bringing games to PS5 specficially

Xbox bringing their games to PS5 IS NOT a strategy. is a PIVOT

I'm not saying you're wrong on anything you're saying. You're over here posting humungous images of articles when a simple link would do. It's really odd.

an image is worth a thousand words. I'm trying to be concise while addressing every point you are making

Just to remind you, I'm talking about putting games on PS5...

which is a pivot

and the ABK deal...

which they spent 75B and is ONLY reason why Xbox had growth....

which is what this thread is mainly referring to. This earnings call...for this quarter...that's 3 months at most.

....This quarter

Calm down dude. You're fanboy is unzipped.

I'm a fanboy of informed
analysis and discussion, not wet dreams and delusion.

 

[Unknown?]

I just think that the hype has died down by time these games get to PC, which affects sales.

But PC gamers, with no intent of buying a console, aren't paying attention to hyped console games. Why would they care if a new GOW was coming out on PS5?

 

[rhodesianshepard]

I don't know why anyone would expect cloud streaming or AI to play any significant role in the industry. If that's their plan, they're even worse off any anyone thought...

Cloud streaming - they already built their cloud gaming network. To my understanding, almost no one is using it as their only access to Xbox games. From the ABK court case, we saw the leaked emails where Spencer was saying it's neat technology, but there's no way to turn it into a product that people want to pay for. The kids want games running on their phones and tablets. The adults want consoles and PCs. No one wants to pay for a subscription to cloud gaming. If they did, they would be doing it already.

Sony tried pushing PS Now a few years ago and no one cared. It's now been relegated to a bonus feature on a subscription that people don't bother to use. NVIDIA's GeForce Now is the most used network, but it hasn't got anywhere near enough subscribers to pose a threat to Steam, GOG, Epic, etc.

As for AI - what is it going to do for games exactly? Are we talking about some AI running in the cloud that the games rely on in real time? If so, then it has the same problem as the cloud streaming tech.

For Microsoft, Cloud gaming wouldn't so much be about monetizing off of it but selling Gamepass subscriptions. It would lower the barrier of entry where consumers wouldn't even need to buy a console

As for AI, it has the potential to drastically reduce costs of game development. Smaller teams could make bigger games at a faster pace

 

[KAOS]

Magneto Speaks The Truth!

 

[Jigsaah]

are you Jigsaah right? is so, yes I'm replying to you point by point.


Xbox bringing their games to PS5 IS NOT a strategy. is a PIVOT


an image is worth a thousand words. I'm trying to be concise while addressing every point you are making


which is a pivot

which they spent 75B and is ONLY reason why Xbox had growth....

....This quarter

I'm a fanboy of informed
analysis and discussion, not wet dreams and delusion.

If an image is worth a 1000 words, what's yours worth, 10,000? Jesus Christ.

Pivot, strategy...it's all nomenclature at this point. The point is I'm talking about something totally different than what you are. You're responding to me...but talking about things on a much larger scope than what I'm focused in on. All for the purpose of boo-hooin' Xbox's "strategy" like a good little fanboy, in a conversation that doesn't call for that.

Like...what the fuck are you doin bro?

 

[cash_longfellow]

Welcome back!…and this is your first post? See you again soon

 

[Jigsaah]

But PC gamers, with no intent of buying a console, aren't paying attention to hyped console games. Why would they care if a new GOW was coming out on PS5?

I paid attention. Guess that makes one of me. lmao

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

If an image is worth a 1000 words, what's yours worth, 10,000? Jesus Christ.

Pivot, strategy...it's all nomenclature at this point. The point is I'm talking about something totally different than what you are. You're responding to me...but talking about things on a much larger scope than what I'm focused in on. All for the purpose of boo-hooin' Xbox's "strategy" like a good little fanboy, in a conversation that doesn't call for that.

I gave you all the info and the correct analysis. Is on you to either ignore it or to learn something and rephrase/re-think the point you are trying to make. because as of right now, you are lost in your own misguided point.

 

[Jigsaah]

It is to Xbox management. They expected to be much further ahead than they are, and the attempts they've made to increase subs have gone nowhere. They were selling the Series consoles at a discount last holiday with "free" Game Pass, and they didn't sell.

If it's not growing, they'll kill it and invest the money in other areas of the business they expect to have more growth. They're not going to sit on a stagnant, underperforming line of business any longer than it takes for them to pivot.

Xbox's management are full of themselves. They expected 70 something percentage growth and only hit 28 percent. 70 percent growth of anything is insane YOY.

So you're right, it is a failure to them. However the goals they set for themselves is akin to Pachter saying they'll hit 100 million subs. Its....a bit ambitious...to put it nicely.

 

[Jigsaah]

I gave you all the info and the correct analysis. Is on you to either ignore it or to learn something and rephrase/re-think the point you are trying to make. because as of right now, you are lost in your own misguided point.

You haven't analyzed shit. Bring it in brother. Last 3 months. Quarterly earnings. ABK...Xbox games on PS5. Anything outside of that is irrelevant to the conversation.

When you're ready to narrow your scope a bit...then we can continue.

 

[jroc74]

I'm not quite sure I understand the argument that 2 skus has devalued xbox as a whole. If xbox had this brilliant idea for a super power console as their main product, but also wanted to have this cheaper option... and then the cheaper option is their primary seller. In some sense, it's a success isn't it? The series s has overperformed and I think (i don't have the numbers) that it's the main driver of xbox sales right now. If anything, I think they probably should have focused more on the series s as a secondary console for ps5/switch owners.

I don't think this would've worked because of xbox's support for pc gaming (why would anyone buy their console if all the games are on pc anyway) - but that's a separate issue. the fact that they have a series s i think has been a net benefit for the brand.

Like an earlier post said about nuance and idiosyncrasies....

Series S is either causing MS a bigger loss or generating less revenue vs the XSX. Hell, could be both.

Add that Series consoles as a whole are now selling less than the XBO and.....is the Series S really a success? It might have saved things from looking worse but still.

One thing it is a success at is allowing MS to shift heavily into Game Pass and ditching physical games. Cant sell physical games for a primary selling sku that has no disc drive.




Phil Spencer: "we're following what the users dictate" wrt digital vs physical. Yeah......MS is literally forcing that with the Series S being the primary seller.

 

[Jigsaah]

Like an earlier post said about nuance and idiosyncrasies....

Series S is either causing MS a bigger loss or generating less revenue vs the XSX. Hell, could be both.

Add that Series consoles as a whole are now selling less than the XBO and.....is the Series S really a success? It might have saved things from looking worse but still.

One thing it is a success at is allowing MS to shift heavily into Game Pass and ditching physical games. Cant sell physical games for a primary selling sku that has no disc drive.




Phil Spencer: "we're following what the users dictate" wrt digital vs physical. Yeah......MS is literally forcing that with the Series S being the primary seller.

The Series S represents the proverbial shot in the foot. Being the cheapest option with lower performance than both SKUs of the PS5 means when people go to get a second console, it will not be the X...it'll be the PS5.

Xbox's real problem was...well...a lot of things...but to name a few right off the bat

1. Released a system with 0 exclusives
2. Released 2 SKUs with the S being woefully underpowered, betting it would more folks into Gamepass.
3. No bespoke tanglible changes for it's users (i.e. The UI is painfully similar to the Xbox One on the home screen, same ol same ol controller)
4. Focusing too much on the software changes like quick resume. Quick resume is functionally convenient, but it's not sexy. The Ps5 looks like a got damn surfboard...love it or hate it...it's unique and in your face from the second you open the box.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Bring it in brother.

Bring what?

I already gave the info and analysis. you are failing to realize how all of that TIES TO THIS QUARTER.

 

[Radical_3d]

Abyssmal...what do you expect? That it's gonna sell as much as it did as a brand new release? Even if the PC players never played Horizon or God of War before...we certainly have heard of it and the honeymoon period had long past. To me it just lends more of an argument for Playstation to bring games day and date to PC. Strike while the iron is hot.

Sure, Spencer, I see no flaws in your plan…

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't know why anyone would expect cloud streaming or AI to play any significant role in the industry. If that's their plan, they're even worse off any anyone thought...

Cloud streaming - they already built their cloud gaming network. To my understanding, almost no one is using it as their only access to Xbox games. From the ABK court case, we saw the leaked emails where Spencer was saying it's neat technology, but there's no way to turn it into a product that people want to pay for. The kids want games running on their phones and tablets. The adults want consoles and PCs. No one wants to pay for a subscription to cloud gaming. If they did, they would be doing it already.

Sony tried pushing PS Now a few years ago and no one cared. It's now been relegated to a bonus feature on a subscription that people don't bother to use. NVIDIA's GeForce Now is the most used network, but it hasn't got anywhere near enough subscribers to pose a threat to Steam, GOG, Epic, etc.

As for AI - what is it going to do for games exactly? Are we talking about some AI running in the cloud that the games rely on in real time? If so, then it has the same problem as the cloud streaming tech.

I think you have to look at two inevitabilities.

Cloud and AI are absolutely going to reshape the industry, it's just a matter of when and how.

I think Sony had Nintendo on the ropes after Gamecube and the Wii bought Nintendo significantly more time in the industry. Sony actually beat Nintendo to motion control in a way with the EyeToy, but Nintendo fundamentally did it better. Sony tried to replicate with the PlayStation Eye and the Move controllers, but it was too little too late, but I think it taught Sony a pretty valuable lesson on how the industry can change quickly.

PlayStation Move came 4 years after the Wii launched. That's just entirely too late.

Sony has their toes in VR, Cloud, and Subscriptions, but they're still sticking to their traditional model. VR might challenge flat gaming at some point and Sony doesn't want to be years behind. GamePass could have put a nail in Sony too, but Sony whethered the storm. They had their own subscription service just in case they had to pivot to respond, but Sony knew they couldn't compete 1:1 with GamePass which was definitely a loss leader. With Cloud gaming, they can't afford to fall behind either.

Sony unlike every other company has to be careful not to alienate their core audience. Nintendo and Microsoft can do that because they're not the market leaders.

AI could change gaming just as much as open world changed gaming, probably even more when you look at how it can speed up development times and reduce costs but it can also change how games are played and experienced.

AI combined with VR brings us one step closer to the Star Trek holodeck and Ready Player One. Whoever gets there first is going to have a massive advantage.

 

[Three]

If anything, I think they probably should have focused more on the series s as a secondary console for ps5/switch owners.

I don't think this would've worked because of xbox's support for pc gaming (why would anyone buy their console if all the games are on pc anyway) - but that's a separate issue. the fact that they have a series s i think has been a net benefit for the brand.

They did focus mainly on the S. The Series S I think had some real downsides for them too though. One of them was the added development cost and delays it introduced. It also meant that, as you said, people were more likely to buy the Series S as a cheap secondary console to access specific xbox games rather than the more expensive box. When somebody has a weak home console and a more powerful home console where are they going buy their multiplatform software? Not on xbox series S. Series S then was just fighting for engagement and not game sales. They were hoping that wouldn't be a problem. That people wouldn't really be buying software on their PS5 to keep them entertained but would be spending that time on gamepass and the cheaper box instead. They were knowingly killing game sales, where they knew they couldn't compete in that multiconsole home, to replace it with a new model which they hoped to dominate. It didn't really work that well for them and just ruined the chances of software sales on the more capable systems.

 

[Jigsaah]

Sure, Spencer, I see no flaws in your plan…

Ok so explain to me why you think God of War and Horizon didn't do banger numbers on PC. Mind you, I don't agree with this. I think both did just fine given the way it was released. Several years after the initial launch...understandably because at the time Sony didn't have Nixxes.

I still hold the opinion that if it were released at least closer to the launch on PLaystation they would have sold more on PC.

 

[rm082e]

I think you have to look at two inevitabilities.

Cloud and AI are absolutely going to reshape the industry, it's just a matter of when and how.

...snip...

AI could change gaming just as much as open world changed gaming, probably even more when you look at how it can speed up development times and reduce costs but it can also change how games are played and experienced.

AI combined with VR brings us one step closer to the Star Trek holodeck and Ready Player One. Whoever gets there first is going to have a massive advantage.

Again, I don't see any evidence to support the above statements, aside from your point about AI tools helping to speed up the development side. That part makes sense, and I'm all for it. People have been creating tools that speed up development for years with things like SpeedTree. I don't doubt that a big cluster of GPUs could help speed up some of those tools.

But when you say "it will change how games are played and experienced", can you spell that out in detail for me? That's the part where I don't see a logical path forward. It seems like people have a very fuzzy assumption that because AI is a powerful technology, it will somehow be a panacea for gaming. Can you describe a specific outcome that AI will be used to accomplish in gaming? Something we can't do with local hardware like a PC or console? I'm just not seeing a clear A-to-B-to-C roadmap there.

As for cloud, the economics of scale just don't work for transitioning all players to cloud and doing away with local hardware. The farther my data packet has to travel before being processed and returned, the more hops it's going to make. The more hops, the more latency. The shortest distance is zero hops - I.E. a box attached to my display in my home. Cloud is an option for players who are willing to live with the compromise, which is a small percentage of people.

 

[solidus12]

Fanboy changed his tune

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Fanboy changed his tune

i got the chance chat with Jezz corden himself. and I was brutally honest. these shills are so pathetic

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

been a net benefit for the brand.

PR wise has been a disaster (after release). BG3 delay. and the performance comparisons.... Let's see what kind of discourse HB2 gets around the series S.

In terms of sales?... i think, as anything with MS...their execution sucks.

the idea of having a flagship product is to create a halo effect for lesser products (that sell way better). the issue is that this dynamic was not strong, because the Xbox brand was being carried by Game Pass. the power narrative was quickly defeated thanks to the "Tools not being ready"

 

[Alan Wake]

Prophets, pundits, connaisseurs, insiders, leakers...you name it

It's crazy how these kinds of people were and still are trying to gaslight your average Xbox fan.

Just to exemplify how rough the immediate future for Xbox really is:

Hellblade 2 has more red flags than green ones >PS5Pro Marketing/release > Their biggest games (Avowed, Indiana Jones) are at the end of the year and with high chances of being delayed. In that inter, MS can release more games on PS5. it's going to be nastier for that brand/console.

But what happens when you don't have a console to champion and then you rely solely on the quality and release schedule of games, which is already spotty at best?...I dunno man. How can a brand be this shitty and still find success in a market?

Yeah, I was laughing out load when this was the "analysis" of the situation. So typical. IGN Unlocked did something similar.

 

[havoc00]

+51% has growth like that been seen? Wow

 

[midnightAI]

Like an earlier post said about nuance and idiosyncrasies....

Series S is either causing MS a bigger loss or generating less revenue vs the XSX. Hell, could be both.

Add that Series consoles as a whole are now selling less than the XBO and.....is the Series S really a success? It might have saved things from looking worse but still.

One thing it is a success at is allowing MS to shift heavily into Game Pass and ditching physical games. Cant sell physical games for a primary selling sku that has no disc drive.




Phil Spencer: "we're following what the users dictate" wrt digital vs physical. Yeah......MS is literally forcing that with the Series S being the primary seller.

I actually have to apologise to Microsoft, I got my Series S for free (phone upgrade freebie), have only ever used Gamepass and have never bought a single game so I have lost them money.

 

[midnightAI]

Fanboy changed his tune

So he's trying to take Playstation down along with Microsoft? What a weird take.

 

[geary]

You are proving his point then… Power doesn’t sell to masses.

Power no, but your own digital library and friend list, yes. Thats the big diferentiator, not power or exclusives or marketing. People wont left behind their PS4 library because MS have gamepass…

 

[damidu]

Fanboy changed his tune

lowest lifeforms on the planet jeez.
these morons were having real time nervous breakdowns just months ago, because "pentiment" was getting ported lol.
just watch them hype up indy ps5 pro version at the end of this year.
they received the new assignment.

 

[Alan Wake]

Honestly a shame how they’ve run it into the dirt. I like the hardware they put out. The 360 was great. The One X was excellent, and I think the Series X, as far as hardware goes, is great too. Hate how much they whiffed in terms of everything else after like 2009 or 2010 though.

Same. I've been onboard since the day the first Xbox launched. Got the 360, which was a great experience and the prime time for Xbox. And then Xbox One happened. The reveal was awful and I waited until 2015 before I finally got one. After that I think they shaped up. One S was good, One X was great, Game Pass, backcompat, good things were happening. I had high hopes when they revealed the Series X, it almost felt like Xbox was back with a vengeance. But no. There's nothing they can't screw up.

 

[Alan Wake]

The Series S represents the proverbial shot in the foot. Being the cheapest option with lower performance than both SKUs of the PS5 means when people go to get a second console, it will not be the X...it'll be the PS5.

Xbox's real problem was...well...a lot of things...but to name a few right off the bat

1. Released a system with 0 exclusives
2. Released 2 SKUs with the S being woefully underpowered, betting it would more folks into Gamepass.
3. No bespoke tanglible changes for it's users (i.e. The UI is painfully similar to the Xbox One on the home screen, same ol same ol controller)
4. Focusing too much on the software changes like quick resume. Quick resume is functionally convenient, but it's not sexy. The Ps5 looks like a got damn surfboard...love it or hate it...it's unique and in your face from the second you open the box.

To be honest, I think 1 and possibly 2 are valid here, but people don't choose consoles from design and UI. Or the controller. Games matter. If Xbox Series X had had that great looking Halo Infinite at launch and if it had been the ultimate comeback for Halo, things might have been different now. But we also need to remember the unique situation when Xbox Series X/S and PS5 launched. The supply issues meant that Microsoft were selling all the Series X's the could manufacture at that point. Without Halo.

My biggest issue with Xbox for the past few years is how they mismanage their most important IP's as well as their promising new ones. Apart from Forza Horizon 5, basically no exclusive game has delivered. I loved Halo Infinite, but it was obviously not the game we were promised. Redfall was a disaster. Starfield did not deliver, and it almost felt they'd already given up at that point. They even managed to fuck up Forza Motorsport. Honestly, what's happening? Why does game after game under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella end up in developer's hell? It has to have something to do with how game development is being done at Microsoft (we've heard some about this from anonymous devs, but I would be interested to know more).

 

[GHG]

20 billion in profit? No wonder they don't care if xboxer loses a bit of cash. Not likely to "give up" any time soon.

Narrator: they do care.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's what happens when people tie their identity to a large company. It also happens on Team Green, of course, but jesus christ - reading this thread makes me feel sad for many of the participants.

That said, Xbox is dying. No way around it. The console itself is beefy enough, but there's literally absolutely no reason to purchase it right now. From the top of my head I can't name a single next-gen exclusive game only available on Xbox/PC, other than the new Forza. And Starfield, of course. Forgot about that. Like everyone else.. Uncle Phil had a lot of great intentions, I assume, but he has clearly failed to deliver.

No this is what happens when people hate the direction Xbox has been going in, the last 6-8 years.