DynamiteCop!
Banned
No one cares what some mod on a forum says, the reliability of "insiders" over the past few months has been about as worthless as tits on a boar.
Also DF highlighted EXACTLY what I said about Sony and Microsoft's RT solutions.
Xbox Scarlett could be a generation forward respect the Playstation 5.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
Also DF highlighted EXACTLY what I said about Sony and Microsoft's RT solutions.
Ar¢tos
Member
People people,
It's obvious that only MS has the ability to customize chips or to design good cooling solutions. And only MS has the money to create a powerful console.
Sony gets off the shelf retail sloppy seconds, if AMD feels generous.
Incompetent Sony has been surviving out of pure luck.
/s
It's obvious that only MS has the ability to customize chips or to design good cooling solutions. And only MS has the money to create a powerful console.
Sony gets off the shelf retail sloppy seconds, if AMD feels generous.
Incompetent Sony has been surviving out of pure luck.
/s
Last edited:
DynamiteCop!
Banned
That's not at all what is being said, what appears to have happened is Sony and Microsoft have different enough development timelines where Microsoft was able to procure and implement technology Sony was not afforded the ability to due to constraints of availability.
A few months can radically change hardware design and capability.
alabtrosMyster
Member
I don't maintain an up to date list, but there were a few highlighted in a DF video a couple of months ago...There's only one game (at launch) which I am aware of where the Pro actually outperforms the Xbox One X, and it's Ace Combat 7.
That game has seen 6 or 7 patches since its release so I highly doubt that's the case now, but when it was that comes down to optimization and nothing more. When equally optimized there's nothing the Pro can do that can out-render the Xbox One X, it's a computational certainty. Its GPU is of the same architecture but substantially weaker less PPC, its CPU is of the same starting architecture but underclocked and lacking the improvements Microsoft made to IPC. It has less RAM and 33% lower memory bandwidth which results in high resolution bottlenecking.
And you want to talk about Microsoft PR and being deceptive? Who sold you a 4K console that is averaging 1440p resolution with almost zero ability to actually hit 4K while the competition is averaging 1920p resolution with the ability to hit 4K in many instances? Who sold you a console with an extra 365 days of lead time that now has less enhanced games by a factor of 57 titles (437 vs. 494).
Oh Microsoft is talking out of their ass? Or did you not do the proper research? They outline their improvements, they list the scaling and what has changed. Where is the corresponding data from Sony?
Also, you have nice slides and diagrams, but it's not a comparison if you only show one side.
There are a few points where the PRO outshines the X, and they could mean that in some edge case the platform performs better:
- ROPs and process queues for the GPU cores are still much higher on the PRO than on the X.
- The console has a separate ARM CPU to handle background tasks (as opposed to reserving GPU/GPU time for the hypervisor/OS/encoding).
- Having to do your software optimizations later is not a good sign, it means that the platform is either more complex than it needs or not mature enough.
It does not mean that I think that the PRO is somehow overall as powerful as the X, nor that it will hold up to it in most situations - but I have more respect for the way Sony handles their system designs compared to MS, either for software or hardware (Ms just decided to bring a bazooka to a gunfight this time around, they also came in one year too late with their console upgrade, and they did not bring any munition - i.e. games).
Ar¢tos
Member
Sure, because Sony was stopped by a magical barrier from starting to plan the next gen right after releasing the ps4pro (or even before that) and the magical barrier only dissipated after MS concluded the negotiations with AMD.
Last edited:
Insane Metal
Member
Microsoft has gone to the stage to announce their next system, Sony has not. It was an interview with very scarce details. We know pretty much the basic of the basic so far.
People just love to read too much into stuff like this.
Calm the fuck down everyone lol
People just love to read too much into stuff like this.
Calm the fuck down everyone lol
luca_29_bg
Member
Wrong, many people care about what Matt says because it's a "real insider" with a proved past of info. DF are not insiders of anything, they just speculating like anyone else.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Try this. for a starter, although its likely just easier to look up details on specific features like volatile bit, Id-buffer, and FP16 support (all the stuff to expedite checker-boarding etc).
Any article of any depth talking with Cerny around Pro launch covers it.
Last edited:
DynamiteCop!
Banned
-ROPs are only a factor if the system has the ability to actually scale and make use of them for final render output, it's not pushing enough compute for it to be any kind of a factor and artificially increases the pixel rate unnessisarily. It's literally a severely underclocked RX 580 with double the ROPs for absolutely no purpose, the reason it's 64 is because they simply mirrored their GPU. It was an unnessasry addition done for the purpose of simplicity in design because the PlayStation 4 already had 32 ROPs. They could have crammed 128 in there and the system wouldn't perform any differently.
-And that seems to have had virtually no effect.
-It's not a sign of anything but lazy Japanese developers not doing proper optimization and simply relying on brute force and the issue is only ever presented by them. The Japanese by and large have proven themselves to be quite incompetent when it comes to software optimization, not just on Xbox but in general, they make quite odd decisions and don't work out problems everyone else has irradicated.
There's literally nothing in the Pro which is even comparatively powerful to the Xbox One X, as stated if equally optimized the X will trounce the Pro, it's a computational certainty. I keep seeing this narrative about games, Microsoft has no games, the Xbox One X has no games.
The X has 57 more enhanced titles than the Pro with a year less time on the market, you can put that one to bed.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Ok, so it is Amrica-fYeah... business priorities and engineering success being defined as delivering them to a T be darned...
...
DynamiteCop!
Banned
You have the same fundamental system but more powerful in every single way and it's performing worse than the same fundamental system which is inferior in every fundamental way.Ok, so it is Amrica-fYeah... business priorities and engineering success being defined as delivering them to a T be darned...
Yeah, I'd say it's the Japanese being lazy and/or incompetent.
Last edited:
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Xbox 360 being the result of lazy American engineers, look at how underpowered it is compared to PS4 and Switch... gah...
.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
What kind of dumb analogy is this?Xbox 360 being the result of lazy American engineers, look at how underpowered it is compared to PS4 and Switch... gah...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If you say that Xbox One X and PS4 Pro are the same fundamental system ignoring price point, development time, etc... then why not stretch things further and use a bit longer timescales and compare Xbox 360 to Switch? Fundamentally the same system and one fundamentally outperforms the other and they even engineered it to work on the go, wizardry
!
DynamiteCop!
Banned
The Pro and the X are the same fundamental systems, the Pro is using a weaker derivative of the X's GPU, the Pro is using a weaker derivative of the X's CPU, the Pro has lower clocked identical memory.If you say that Xbox One X and PS4 Pro are the same fundamental system ignoring price point, development time, etc... then why not stretch things further and use a bit longer timescales and compare Xbox 360 to Switch? Fundamentally the same system and one fundamentally outperforms the other and they even engineered it to work on the go, wizardry
Your analogical comparison is just poor and you're contextually missing the point. The point is the only logistical way for the X to perform worse than the Pro is if a developer isn't doing their job correct, the end.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
True, but the X's industrial design is leaps and bound ahead of the Pro.
Last edited:
Farrell55
Banned
I wish Microsoft would buy fromsoftware!
They are looking for a japan studio right know
Negotiator
Banned
alabtrosMyster
Member
You just don't get what you're talking about, I told you that there are good reasons for it to happen from time to time and you respond te with some Microsoft talking points.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Wow... shock... a 6 TFLOPS system with higher bandwidth can outperform via brute force an older, by a year, and cheaper 4.2 TFLOPS system? Stop the presses
.The Pro is Polaris with some Vega features and its layout and CU count chosen to match PS4's GPU to make perfect BC super easy... X is a customised Southern Island core with admittedly cool enhancement and with the mandate to the the fastest system no matter what because they HAD to win the performance crown.
CPU choice, given the compatibility constraints imposed by the base systems which admittedly as an issue for Sony more than MS as there were quite a bit more PS4's out there and PS4 targeted software than Xbox One consoles (and Sony still cares about console generations, thank God
), seems to be appropriate for both consoles. X has to pay a bit higher OS tax as both CPU and GPU are running behind a virtualisation later, so yes it is still a bit faster but not incredibly so.Funny that you are projecting lack of context issues and just taking about lazy devs and ignoring any historical and business perspective around the two consoles and what their purpose on the market was when they were designed... but yeah, lazy engineers...
.
llien
Banned
It's about exclusives. God of War, Horizon, Uncharted kind of heavy weights.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
That depends, those kids are still very very early and things can change... see 8 GB of GDDD5 in PS4 revealed during the launch year...
Last edited:
jonnyp
Member
DF has always been boring.
They are both confirmed to be using Navi so the whole thing is a load of good old fashioned bollocks anyway.
Farrell55
Banned
Its not only the tflop power oneX also has a massive bandwith advantage
Ps4p 218gb/s oneX over 320gb/s
Also a more powerfull cpu
Look at rdr2 1080p vs native 4k it isnt even a contest
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Why all the system wars?
Can't we all just get along?
There's no reason for people to get upset.
In our hearts we all know that PlayStation will have the best games.
Can't we all just get along?
There's no reason for people to get upset.
In our hearts we all know that PlayStation will have the best games.
LordOfChaos
Member
Their laptop reviews are actually some of the best and most in depth out there, I always turn to them...But as for news, yeah, they're just a regurgitator.
Snake29
Banned
Xfans are upset at this point because Sony still hasn't confirmed what the PS5 will actually be. So they are all scared as hell that their beloved Phill will disappoint hem in the end. Looking at this thread and the other one, they are already claiming a lot of thing about the PS5.
They don't say Sony is doomed with the PS5 yet.
Last edited:
Farrell55
Banned
With Microsoft latest studio aquisitons they are at least on the same level as sony world wide Studios! And they even finnish... is more to come
llien
Banned
I'll need to see the receipts first.
ph33rknot
Banned
Wasn't that just a fluke the just got lucky and they didn't change anything just added more
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Did you even read my post
? Yes, it does have bandwidth advantage too. PS4 was trying to nudge developers in using some of its bandwidth saving features, including giving some incentives with double rate half precision calculations, the most advanced DCC they could get from AMD at the time, better primitive discard accelerator, as well as giving tools to help developers reach closer to 4K without the FP resources to brute force it and the bandwidth to feed them.Yes, it is weaker and cheaper and came out earlier (for me the mistake was not using UHD Blu-Ray and perhaps betting too much on developers using the HW more in depth than brute force things). All in all both are equally well designed for me.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No dev kit had any trace of it leading it to be a surprise change for devs too.
Farrell55
Banned
Yeah but only because of lazy incompetent or inexperienced Dev's
Snake29
Banned
Quantity>Quality...this is what will happen with Microsoft and XCloud. They need to push out a lot of games to keep it interesting.
We will see a few quality games, but i do not believe those small studio's will have the same output as the big Sony WWS. They are not acquired to make multi million $ games.
Last edited:
Ninjamaeden
Neo Member
Secret sauce 2020.
Farrell55
Banned
The pro Gpu is some kind of Frankenstein MonsterDid you even read my post
Yes, it is weaker and cheaper and came out earlier (for me the mistake was not using UHD Blu-Ray and perhaps betting too much on developers using the HW more in depth than brute force things). All in all both are equally well designed for me.
18cu gcn just like OG playstation 4
And 18 more advanced cu's gcn polaris, you can clearly see on the die shot they use completely different cu's
Bigarmsbigguns
Banned
HAHAHA, where's your God now, SNOYBOYS!?
RIP IN PIECES, Nothing personell, kiddos.
gg ez game ez life
RIP IN PIECES, Nothing personell, kiddos.
gg ez game ez life
llien
Banned
The more I read about it, the more convincing the "RT chiplet" theory looks.
1) It is "next gen RDNA" (RT is coming only with "next gen RDNA", as far as I read the slide)
2) It could take less time than rolling out new GPU
3) Microsoft knew DXR was coming
4) RT intersection checking has little to do with rasterization business, so no problemo having it on a separate chip
1) It is "next gen RDNA" (RT is coming only with "next gen RDNA", as far as I read the slide)
2) It could take less time than rolling out new GPU
3) Microsoft knew DXR was coming
4) RT intersection checking has little to do with rasterization business, so no problemo having it on a separate chip
Hideous Snake
Gold Member
I did. It's a waste of time and provides me nothing so I decided to wait until both companies just reveals their new hardware
Instead of looking like a fucking idiot fighting people over which console is more powerful. I wish they can see how stupid they look
Last edited by a moderator:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
WTF is this idiocy?
It wasn't Sony who had to fundamentally rethink their VRam design in order to produce competitive performance! They were the ones out of the gate in 2013 with the better performing hardware for SRP. The One was lagging so badly MS even had to hastily upclock the system and massively revise the OS layer and still couldn't match it.
Then of course, there's the small matter of the Pro launching a full year before One X at a 25% smaller SRP.
Yes X and PS4 are comparable pieces of hardware design. But there's no doubt that MS were copying Sony, when their original hardware design and marketing plan failed to live up to expectations, they had to do a major re-think.
Farrell55
Banned
Everyone can make mistakes or wouldn you say?
Also has phil put MS back on Track, he will manage to make ms the best gaming related company in the world
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
My issue was with the term "derivative". I think the One X is a nice piece of hardware design, but its performance advantage is a result of MS overhauling the bus design, and clocking up the APU to a level far higher level than is usual. The end result is that they had to ramp up the manufacturing cost with an equally unusually elaborate cooling system.
PS4 Pro is an interesting case because the obvious priority in the design was offering 100% compatibility with the base model at a hardware level, whilst also offering enhanced performance for 4K displays, and. remaining inline with the launch SRP.
Its a much more constrained design and totally inline with a philosophy of avoiding risk, whereas One X represents a clear no-holds-barred approach to making a better Xbox. In simple terms, Pro was built to capitalize on an existing success, whereas X was more about rehabilitating the brand after the failure of the original One.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
DynamiteCop!
, we need to talk, pronto.The team at Sony HQ are pretty upset about you calling them lazy devs. I had to calm them down and let them know that it may have been misguided or unintentional wording.
They want an apology from you in the next 48 hours. In Japan, the way to apologize to big corporations is to hug a significant figure working at their company.
In your case, you'll have to hug Sony's most important asset:
And yes, he will be shirtless.
Last edited: