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[darkinstinct]

That's why I said and think what if it is a 4TF, 1080p, all digital handheld device.

Plays all your digital content from Xbox One and available 360 BC and accesses gamepass, Live, and Xcloud.

Biggest issues storage and maybe all that in a $300-$350 device.

But it seems like a no brainer and would have quality content available at launch and compete with Switch/Switch mini

They don't need that device, the Surface Neo will do that (via xCloud).

 

[T-I-N-M-A-N dX]

They don't need that device, the Surface Neo will do that (via xCloud).

I think a few of the Surface devices will be decent with Xcloud.

But a dedicated handheld for gaming would still make sense. Especially something Switch or even Switch mini sized. You can get away with the bulkier and sturdier design for comfort. Plus you get the this is made and marketed as basically an Xbox One on the go device.

I know I'd def be interested in a device like that just for my kids alone especially if the price point was good.

 

[darkinstinct]

I think a few of the Surface devices will be decent with Xcloud.

But a dedicated handheld for gaming would still make sense. Especially something Switch or even Switch mini sized. You can get away with the bulkier and sturdier design for comfort. Plus you get the this is made and marketed as basically an Xbox One on the go device.

I know I'd def be interested in a device like that just for my kids alone especially if the price point was good.

But a 4TF handheld would suck your battery empty within an hour. It's just not feasible. Better to only power the screen and have everything else run on xCloud. 10 hour handheld right there.

 

[LOLCats]

XSX gonna be 5 hundo dolla boyz

 

[DeepEnigma]

There's NO WAY rdna2 is 50% more efficient than rdna1. You can't believe that can you?

Lol i was surprised he believed it.

He's been peddling the cult BS since he's been here.

 

[KURDISTAN YPG]

No matter how much you wanna defend lockhart-

no developers will admit is weak and is holding back the x
- microsoft will use the enhance word alot-

this means, basezvox must play the game without issues.

but reality is it will def. hold back xsx

— im hoping sony dont do 2 skus - Ot we will be playing gamea with only minor graphical differences— the physics of the games will remain the same -

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A Lockhart at $300 seems low.

but then again if they make it all digital and have a traditional HDD maybe.

 

[CyberPanda]

A Lockhart at $300 seems low.

but then again if they make it all digital and have a traditional HDD maybe.

It's going to have an ssd

 

[Panaphonics]

A Lockhart at $300 seems low.

but then again if they make it all digital and have a traditional HDD maybe.

nah. Will he same as series X but just HD 1080p instead of 4K. So also SSD etc.

 

[Knightime_X]

Now lockheart with 4tf shouldn't be bad AS LONG AS devs don't go full herp fucking derp making it 4k 10fps ultra settings.

4tf at 1080p should do wonders both in performance and image quality.

Devs will probably ruin fucking everything in an attempt to shoehorn the graphics.

Which is 1,000% reason to NOT to buy lockheart.

At the very least give the player these options:

Lockheart settings: Adjusted settings to offer the best performance and image quality balance.

Xbox series X setting: like pornhub only with sexy video games graphics

 

[CyberPanda]

Now lockheart with 4tf shouldn't be bad AS LONG AS devs don't go full herp fucking derp making it 4k 10fps.

4tf at 1080p should do wonders both in performance and image quality.

Devs will probably ruin fucking everything in an attempt to shoehorn the graphics.

Which is 1,000% reason to NOT to buy lockheart.

They will target 1080p 60 FPS with rt

 

[DESTROYA]

Wonder if they are going to use the same case and share the same form factor?
Still not sold on 2 SKU's but a cheaper secondary console to have in a different room/kids room might be interesting.

 

[ebullientprism]

Wonder if they are going to use the same case and share the same form factor?
Still not sold on 2 SKU's but a cheaper secondary console to have in a different room/kids room might be interesting.

I kinda want them to do this. Coupled with the already confusing names, this would be fucking hilarious.

Or even better, ditch the new design entirely and use the Xbox one design for everything.

 

[Esppiral]

If
Xbox lockhart is 4TF
Ps5 9TF
Xbox Series X 12TF

They are aiming at the top and lower end of the spectrum, and omitting the medium, where most sales will be, good job MS on losing another generation.

 

[Jigsaah]

Poor deflection.

What's funny is you yourself don't even need to do much to get more basic information than you already have, you jsut clearly don't know what you're saying and too full of yourself to even educate yourself on the basic level of this issue, I bet the Wii U performance surprised you after the launch honeymoon.

So those who do actually have better knowledge are way out of your reach. Even now it would take you seconds and you won't do it.



people really don't know how this works, despite the last 15 years of just "gaming" products alone, let alone anything else, shows that consumers are easily confused. I guess people just have bad memories or are in a bubble.

I know exactly what I'm saying. It's you who are insinuating what knowledge I have or don't have. What we both have are opinions. That's first and foremost. Also it's important to note that the Wii's success was based much more heavily on a casual audience than either the Xbox or Playstation ever has been. Wii U was a poor name choice, I'll give you that. However, if you think that's what sunk it, you're sadly mistaken. The magic with the Wii came from it's accessibility to the casual audience. The Wii brought a lot of first time gamers into the market.

What tanked the Wii U is multi-factored. It was not just the name. My Dad is 70 years old. he bought a Wii. He didn't buy a Wii U...why...because after the honeymoon period of the Wii U had ended Nintendo failed to retain the new casual audience they had garnered with the Wii. Even that has multiple reasons. I can go into those as well if it suits you but I'm pretty sure this kinda shit is above your pay grade.

Back to the multiple SKU's of next gen. Just like I said before, it depends on how they market the SKU's. It's up to Sony and Microsoft to distinguish the consoles. If nothing else, the difference in price will spark inquiry from the consumer, even the average consumer would wanna know why one is $299 and one is $499. There are products with multiple SKU's right now that I would consider myself an average consumer of. A great example would be HDTV's or computer parts. If I'm at a best buy and see 2 65 inch televisions that are $400 apart yea i'm asking an employee why that is.

Instead of trying to claim you know what I know or don't know, try backing up your argument, it makes for a better debate. Is that enough deflection for you?

 

[kikonawa]

This seems so close to an Xbox One X I can't see any real reason for it to exist outside of marketing.

It will be a replacement for sure

 

[ZywyPL]

If
Xbox lockhart is 4TF
Ps5 9TF
Xbox Series X 12TF

They are aiming at the top and lower end of the spectrum, and omitting the medium, where most sales will be, good job MS on losing another generation.

That's very likely scenario indeed. If there really will be such 3 models, with 100$ difference between them, I can see A LOT of people going like "600$ is way too much, WTF, I'll get the 400$ one. But that 500$ PS5 tho... Fuck it, I'm getting PS5!". So that way people who can't afford the most powerful but and most expensive console, but also don't want to have the weakest one, will naturally opt for the middle one, which every sign on the sky is pointing to be the PS5.

But if there's a greater difference in price, like 300 vs 450-500 vs 500-600, then the Lockhard might take a really huuuge chunk of that userbase pie.

 

[sonomamashine]

But if there's a greater difference in price, like 300 vs 450-500 vs 500-600, then the Lockhard might take a really huuuge chunk of that userbase pie.

That's why i think Sony might release 2 versions of the PS5, can't afford losing that part of the market, MS will strike gold.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

They should reveal it together with the new Forza trailer (or other game). Then show both the Series X and Series S versions to see how they compare.

 

[NT80]

hope they don't come out with a weaker sku. xsx shld be the base sku and then they should come out with a pro version in a few years. if ps5's cheaper sku is more powerful than xbox's cheapest sku might consider switching to Sony

That's what I'd much rather they both did as they did with the current gen. Target resolution would generally be 1080p - 1440p and in a few cases 4k but leave the 4k on everything for the pro version consoles. The regular consoles would be the baseline for games without being held back by 4k which is left to the pro consoles. Surely that would lead to much better results for next gen.

 

[Panaphonics]

They are aiming at the top and lower end of the spectrum, and omitting the medium, where most sales will be, good job MS on losing another generation.

Says who?
If low end doesn't look that different is significantly cheaper than this will sell most by far

 

[Codes 208]

They should reveal it together with the new Forza trailer (or other game). Then show both the Series X and Series S versions to see how they compare.

If they have to show it with anything, it should be *actual* gameplay of halo infinite.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Anybody who's ever worked in retail, specifically consumer electronics or technology, knows that all the moms shopping during Christmas coming in like:

"I'd like the latest 4k system for little Johnny. Okay, does that one have 3D audio? What about the RAM? How much RAM does this one have? Great. Now talk to me about the GPU. And expandable memory. Does the internal SSD mean that Johnny can't use an external HDD? Do both have heptic triggers? No. Interesting. What about the read speed of the SSD? Are they comparable? Lastly, talk to me about what their studios have in the pipeline these next three years."

Right.....

 

[gaming_noob]

Anybody who's ever worked in retail, specifically consumer electronics or technology, knows that all the moms shopping during Christmas coming in like:

"I'd like the latest 4k system for little Johnny. Okay, does that one have 3D audio? What about the RAM? How much RAM does this one have? Great. Now talk to me about the GPU. And expandable memory. Does the internal SSD mean that Johnny can't use an external HDD? Do both have heptic triggers? No. Interesting. What about the read speed of the SSD? Are they comparable? Lastly, talk to me about what their studios have in the pipeline these next three years."

Right.....

Anecdotes from retail workers

 

[sonomamashine]

6 TF GCN Polaris = 4 TF RDNA1

But it's 4 TF RDNA2, which supposedly is up to 50 % faster than RDNA1. So it could be those 4 TF RDNA2 = 6 TF RDNA1 = 9 TF GCN Polaris.

Turned out to be true 50% perf/watt (RDNA2 50% over RDNA1) not IPC, will see how it will perform in real benchs.

 

[sdrawkcab]

If Microsoft really does plan to have multiple SKUs which would actually segregate the market in terms of performance, I hope Sony sticks to single SKU offering the best value for next gen. Not a fan of this multiple SKU featuring vastly different specs. Having a smaller hard drive is okay like last gen, but having totally different performance specs is just not a cool idea at the start of a gen!

What are you basing this off of? Ever heard of a PC?

I think a lot of people think that developers will build for the base (weaker console), then just add a few bells and whistles for the "Pro" versions; I don't think this will happen, at all. In fact, I think the opposite is what's going to happen at the start of next gen. They'll build for the Series X, and simply downscale for the Series S.

 

[too much eslim]

This seems so close to an Xbox One X I can't see any real reason for it to exist outside of marketing.

The CPU and SSD alone makes it a big difference over One X

 

[The Alien]

Clearly this box isnt for us nerds that peruse gaming sites on the daily.

This box will likely outsell the Series X when Jimmy's grandma goes Christmas shopping and pick this up on the cheap.

If it launches at $300, with GamePass, and maybe a game bundle or on sale down the road....playing games at 1080p, its gonna sell a boatload.

Me? I'll be buying the Series X.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

It makes no sense.

Are they effectively killing the X with this move? How can they sell lockgart at $300 when the X is still $350-$400?

Or is the Idea to 'force' people to upgrade away from the xbone family by cutting the legs off of this gen?

 

[FlyyGOD]

One X is a 4K console, Series S is a 1080p console (4K upscale).

Series S will be RNDA 2 though.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

All these skus are idiotic from a marketing standpoint. Foolish and self defeating.

 

[MightySquirrel]

What on earth are you basing that on?

4K usually cuts your frames in half going from 1080p to 4k. [say you get 60fps at 1080p, but you'll still get 30fps at 4k i nsame game same settings] You only need double performance to go from 1080p to 4k and maintain fps. So this guy is right to be very worried about weak 4TF sku.

 

[Stuart360]

I get what people are saying about how dumb people can be with this stuff, especially parents etc, but realisticly how many people are going to be confused over a $299 'Xbox Series S', vs a $499 'Xbox Series X', ?
And even if they do get confused, what does that mean?, they end up not bying one?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I get what people are saying about how dumb people can be with this stuff, especially parents etc, but realisticly how many people are going to be confused over a $299 'Xbox Series S', vs a $499 'Xbox Series X', ?
And even if they do get confused, what does that mean?, they end up not bying one?

Somehow video game consoles are the only product in the world where if there's more than one choice, it's a big freak out.

Yet every other gadget from cars to kitchen appliances to phones and even a toaster, people are smart enough to look at price and figure out feature set and choose what's best.

 

[Panaphonics]

Anybody who's ever worked in retail, specifically consumer electronics or technology, knows that all the moms shopping during Christmas coming in like:

"I'd like the latest 4k system for little Johnny. Okay, does that one have 3D audio? What about the RAM? How much RAM does this one have? Great. Now talk to me about the GPU. And expandable memory. Does the internal SSD mean that Johnny can't use an external HDD? Do both have heptic triggers? No. Interesting. What about the read speed of the SSD? Are they comparable? Lastly, talk to me about what their studios have in the pipeline these next three years."

Right.....

Series X:
Retailer:when did you buy your TV?
Him: Just a few months ago.
retailer: ok, you have a 4K TV, go with series X

Series S:
Retailer: when did you buy your TV?
Him: couple of years ago. Don't need the latest and the best. Just want to play the latest games. That's it.
Retailer: ok, series S it is.

done.

 

[Panaphonics]

Somehow video game consoles are the only product in the world where if there's more than one choice, it's a big freak out.

Yet every other gadget from cars to kitchen appliances to phones and even a toaster, people are smart enough to look at price and figure out feature set and choose what's best.

its only because people think Microsoft is the only one don't it and Sony not.
So, it MUST be a bad thing. Everything Microsoft does is bad and everything that Sony does it great.
they even Said it's a "smart move" that Sony is not showing anything about PS5. XD

 

[Slings and Arrows]

For a long time I wasn't sure what the point of Lockhart would be but now that I'm reading through this thread I could maybe see myself going the Lockhart route if the PS5 is at least close to as powerful as XsX.

If PS5 is a beast at least similar to XsX I can go Sony for the power route and Lockhart for the Game Pass catalog and whatnot

I was thinking the same, but I have an X, which will support next-gen games in 1080p for at least two years.

For me, I'll buy the PS5 on launch to play the PS4 games I've missed since buying the X and I'll pick up a new Xbox in two years time when the XSX-X version is out.

I don't understand Microsoft strategy enough to plop £450+ on a console on launch.

 

[Panaphonics]

I was thinking the same, but I have an X, which will support next-gen games in 1080p for at least two years.

For me, I'll buy the PS5 on launch to play the PS4 games I've missed since buying the X and I'll pick up a new Xbox in two years time when the XSX-X version is out.

I don't understand Microsoft strategy enough to plop £450+ on a console on launch.

Fine. Microsoft is just supporting their platforms longer and are not forcing people to upgrade.
As long as you buy their games, who cares if it's one X, Series X or PC. Bought game is a bought game.
Microsoft does it for the customer and that's a good thing.
imagine you just bought the PS4 Pro a year ago and now Sony is telling you not even two years later you have to buy a new console AGAIN to play the latest games? Fuck off Sony. Very anti-customer.

 

[hunthunt]

This reminds me a little bit the mid 90's when Sega was flooding the market with consoles and shitty add-ons.

Im not saying its bad, I think its interesting, I wonder if they really thought that Stadia would catch on and this was a response to that specific market.

 

[Panaphonics]

This reminds me a little bit the mid 90's when Sega was flooding the market with consoles and shitty add-ons.

Im not saying its bad, I think its interesting, I wonder if they really thought that Stadia would catch on and this was a response to that specific market.

Sony does the same tho and they even did it first. Remember PS4 Pro?

 

[Mistershine.]

I was thinking the same, but I have an X, which will support next-gen games in 1080p for at least two years.

For me, I'll buy the PS5 on launch to play the PS4 games I've missed since buying the X and I'll pick up a new Xbox in two years time when the XSX-X version is out.

I don't understand Microsoft strategy enough to plop £450+ on a console on launch.

Next gen support is only for a year and only for first party games. The two year quote was about people getting an xbox at Christmas and having a couple of years of support from then.

 

[darkinstinct]

4K usually cuts your frames in half going from 1080p to 4k. [say you get 60fps at 1080p, but you'll still get 30fps at 4k i nsame game same settings] You only need double performance to go from 1080p to 4k and maintain fps. So this guy is right to be very worried about weak 4TF sku.

Framerate scales with CPU, resolution with GPU.

 

[John254]

Jesus. I always laugh at notion of "confused mothers buying their son an Xbox." I worked at retail and only few times i encountered and issue with "What i want to buy."

When you have Samsung S10, S10+, Note 10, S20, S20+... and people are not confused (I worked for mobile carrier) i don't expect them to be confused with 2 different model of Xbox Series consoles.

 

[CeeJay]

I get what people are saying about how dumb people can be with this stuff, especially parents etc, but realisticly how many people are going to be confused over a $299 'Xbox Series S', vs a $499 'Xbox Series X', ?
And even if they do get confused, what does that mean?, they end up not buying one?

Exactly! It's just like any other multi-tiered product line. A consumer in the know will buy the product they want, people who don't understand the difference will just buy the budget version or educate themselves on which one is for them. No one will be overwhelmed by it and no one will feel ripped off that they bought the wrong model and missed out on features that they didn't realise they wanted! Both consoles will do exactly the same thing and play exactly the same catalogue of games. The Series S will even upscale to 4K (like the S model does now) but have a slightly lower image quality. if that slightly lower image quality is an issue then you already knew going in that you wanted the XSX...

 

[GamerEDM]

im 100% sold on this two sku model approach, 1 for model for the enthusiasts and 1 for the casuals = everybody wins

 

[mckmas8808]

Clearly this box isnt for us nerds that peruse gaming sites on the daily.

This box will likely outsell the Series X when Jimmy's grandma goes Christmas shopping and pick this up on the cheap.

If it launches at $300, with GamePass, and maybe a game bundle or on sale down the road....playing games at 1080p, its gonna sell a boatload.

Me? I'll be buying the Series X.

It isn't going to cost $299 with a state of the art RDNA2 GPU, SSD, and Zen2 CPU guys.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Clearly this box isnt for us nerds that peruse gaming sites on the daily.

This box will likely outsell the Series X when Jimmy's grandma goes Christmas shopping and pick this up on the cheap.

If it launches at $300, with GamePass, and maybe a game bundle or on sale down the road....playing games at 1080p, its gonna sell a boatload.

Me? I'll be buying the Series X.

I don't know about that.

Have Xbox One S for cheap and Xbox X for cheap lead to huge sales increases?

 

[darkinstinct]

It isn't going to cost $299 with a state of the art RDNA2 GPU, SSD, and Zen2 CPU guys.

Price is not about technology, it's about the size of the APU. Which is rumored to be around 200 mm^2, as opposed to the 400 mm^2 APU of Series X. Cut the SSD in half from 1 TB to 500 GB and you save another $30 to 35. It all depends on what X targets. If X is 599, S is 399, if X is 499, S is 299.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Anecdotes from retail workers

Been out of retail for about 3 years and will probably never go back.

 

[mckmas8808]

Price is not about technology, it's about the size of the APU. Which is rumored to be around 200 mm^2, as opposed to the 400 mm^2 APU of Series X. Cut the SSD in half from 1 TB to 500 GB and you save another $30 to 35. It all depends on what X targets. If X is 599, S is 399, if X is 499, S is 299.

Where are you getting those price cuts from?