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[LavitzSlambert]

I wonder how Series X owners feels when games skip Xbox because the Series S is such a nightmare to develop for? They bought a 500 dollar console and are now getting penalized because of a lesser console they never wanted or cared for. I would be pissed at Microsoft and Phil for not dropping parity between S & X. It's a poor strategy that has backfired spectacularly.

I agree it is a poor strategy for Xbox as a hardware platform, and especially for Series X owners, made worse by Microsoft’s policy of enforcing standards that effectively dumb down games to the point where their platform is being excluded. But the situation isn’t that simple.

Microsoft NEEDED Series S to be competitive with Sony and to build up their Game Pass subscriber count. The X could not go head to head with PS5 and expect to be successful. How would the situation be any different without the S? Instead of not getting games due to technical performance problems, Xbox would be getting even less due to a nonexistent audience. Just look at Capcom skipping Xbox releases entirely. It’s also clear Microsoft’s strategy this gen has been to amass players and increase their userbase regardless of what platform they’re playing on, and what the capabilities are. In that sense, Series S has been very successful.

From a hardware platform perspective, it was a suicide mission. The decision split the userbase and pisses off everyone - Series X users get snubbed by the boat anchor that is Series S dragging them down, and Series S users don’t even get the option of playing games at lower spec because it’s not worth it to developers, so they get skipped completely.

But for Microsoft, who only cares about improving its bottom line (not caring how this is done), and in that sense the Series S has been helpful. Obviously they would prefer to be a massively successful hardware platform like Sony or Nintendo, but I think the only people who really cared about that was the Xbox division. Upper management at Microsoft does not seem to care how Xbox makes them money, just that it does. And publishing is a lot easier than continuing to fight the losing battle they’re doing now.

So yes, the Series S is destroying the hardware platform and Xbox brand as we currently know it, many people will feel betrayed and swear off Xbox forever. But I am willing to bet most Xbox fans will continue to buy Microsoft published games on other platforms - and actually, more people than ever will do so. Series S helped them make it this far.

 

[damidu]

I guess he goes back to being elitist trash then. The millions of economically and ecologically responsible consumers who own an Xbox Series S will continue being enriched by the broad library of quality experiences available for it

TM

 

[SkylineRKR]

I have an S and its indeed a mistake. It was a good console when it launched, when PS5 and X were impossible to find. Same experience and speed as next-gen, just with lower specs. If the only cutback was resolution like initially advertised, I would've had no qualms with it.

But there are far more cutbacks due to RAM. Take legacy content for example. It can't just run One X profiles, unless its patched on a case by case basis. Another mistake is that it was just 100 less than a PS5 DE, which was a bonafide next-gen console with no cutbacks. Because what happened was that I had this on back order for 2021, and for some strange reason the retailer shipped it to me the day after launch. So mere weeks after the XSS I had a PS5 as well. And I trust me this devaluated my XSS purchase. I played Astrobot and Demon's Souls and couldn't believe I paid only 100 bucks more for this. The SSD being too small was known on forehand, but in practice the XSS apps weren't that much smaller.

In the end MS might've been better off with a XSX DE for 399. This would mean everyone had the same hardware, and it was still 100 cheaper than a disc version. They would likely get Baldurs Gate 3 day one, and perhaps Wukong. And who knows what will happen in the future.

If this gen would play out like before, the PS5 and XSX would eventually drop in price anyway. Which would've meant the S was a hard sell unless they were willing to go like sub 200 with their system. And I doubt its even that much cheaper to manufacture. But it didn't; consoles became more expensive in fact. Even so, if you want just an Xbox get an XSX.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

That whole Del Walker thread is worth a read, tbh. Quite a bit of insight on how Series S impacts and sometimes limits the scope of current-gen games targeting XSX/PS5/PC.







Draugoth This is the original tweet by Del Walker. Just replace whatever you have there in your OP with this one and ask for a thread title change to remove the Suicide Squad bit.

 

[justiceiro]

Hahahahah, you can see how much of hate boner people have for the series s just by the way this history spread. I love everything about this.

 

[Bernoulli]

That whole Del Walker thread is worth a read, tbh. Quite a bit of insight on how Series S impacts and sometimes limits the scope of current-gen games targeting XSX/PS5/PC.







Draugoth This is the original tweet by Del Walker. Just replace whatever you have there in your OP with this one and ask for a thread title change to remove the Suicide Squad bit.

And they are stuck with it because it's more than 50% of Xbox series sales

 

[BennyBlanco]

Some of us tried to tell you guys before day one that the Xbox series s was going to destroy xbox. But some of you didn't want to listen. But now you see we were right.

If Xbox was popular it wouldn’t have mattered. Devs are still porting to ps4 and Switch. What killed them was years and years of no games and bizarre focus on making gamepass popular in a world where most of the revenue is generated by a small handful of GaaS games.

 

[Drew1440]

The only mistake microsoft made with the Series S was not putting a disc drive in it. It being digital only puts a lot of people off it, especially those who invested in a physical Xbox one and 360 library.

 

[Kumomeme]

b..but! they said the CPU is same! just turn down the graphical sliders! use SFS!

 

[Codes 208]

The only mistake microsoft made with the Series S was not putting a disc drive in it. It being digital only puts a lot of people off it, especially those who invested in a physical Xbox one and 360 library.

I personally disagree, the fact it doesnt have a disk drive shouldve given them more wiggle room to better the specs. The fact they had to bench the xbox one x because it was still a smidge more powerful than this console was very telling.

That and 500gb. after the OS consumes 1/3rd of that space, you have just enough room for a *single* call of duty game

 

[Rockman33]

I feel like having to optimize for a lower spec would inevitably make it be more optimized for the higher spec as well?

How the game ran and graphical fidelity were definitely NOT the problem for this game. I thought it graphically looked and ran great.

Maybe I’m wrong but I literally can’t think of 1 single game Sony has put out exclusively that couldn’t be done on a series S.

Having said all that I do wish the series S was never released.

 

[poppabk]

b..but! they said the CPU is same! just turn down the graphical sliders! use SFS!

The problem is they already have to do that stuff to get things running on XSX and PS5.
Also, so if not Suicide Squad what game is he talking about?

 

[Physiognomonics]

That whole Del Walker thread is worth a read, tbh. Quite a bit of insight on how Series S impacts and sometimes limits the scope of current-gen games targeting XSX/PS5/PC.







Draugoth This is the original tweet by Del Walker. Just replace whatever you have there in your OP with this one and ask for a thread title change to remove the Suicide Squad bit.

What he said is exactly what some of us have been saying from the start when we learned about the memory specs of that model. It was so obvious to guess that this would happen and XSS memory pool would become the new baseline for the whole generation, even for PS5 multiplatform games.

The fact that XSS can't run X1X games via BC (because of lack of memory and probably weaker GPU) is nuts and should have never happened. Big oversight from MS Here!

 

[DenchDeckard]

These Guys know that negative xbox news gets the clicks.

 

[jm89]

This jimbo quote will haunt Xbox

One thing that can be said is that if you look at the history of the game business, creating a special low priced, reduced spec console is something that has not had great results in the past. We’ve considered that option and seen other executives who have attempted this discover how problematic it is.

 

[BlackTron]

The only mistake microsoft made with the Series S was not putting a disc drive in it. It being digital only puts a lot of people off it, especially those who invested in a physical Xbox one and 360 library.

The biggest mistake was not having more RAM. If adding a disc drive got them even farther away from adding more, then nah.

Now I personally hate that it doesn't have a disc drive but that's irrelevant.

 

[diffusionx]

The headline was obviously clickbait but it wasn’t dishonest. He is a suicide squad dev and he did say the series s was annoying. The guy has diarrhea mouth and keeps saying stuff he shouldn’t be saying on social media. At some point it’s going to have major career reproductions if it hasn’t reality.

 

[Edmund]

What's scarier is that this gen will last till 2028, and when the next gen is out, 3rd party devs still have to cater to the Series S until 2031/2032 for cross-gen games.

They gotta put up with this piece of shit for another 7-8 years.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

What's scarier is that this gen will last till 2028, and when the next gen is out, 3rd party devs still have to cater to the Series S until 2031/2032 for cross-gen games.

They gotta put up with this piece of shit for another 7-8 years.

You are assuming Xbox Series S and X as a gaming platform would still be supported in 2030. Cross gen does not mean ALL consoles of that gen. As we see, the smart option now is to launch on Xbox Series if and only if it is worth it for the studio. In 2030 I believe that would no longer be an idea that is worth entertaining.

 

[DragonNCM]

How about you guys learn to code ?
Your games run like ass on anything & you blame Series S ?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

How about you guys learn to code ?
Your games run like ass on anything & you blame Series S ?

Xbox is not in the position to dictate terms.

Or rather, they are trying to dictate terms. it's just that it is not benefiting them much.

 

[jroc74]

How about you guys learn to code ?
Your games run like ass on anything & you blame Series S ?

I mean....if games struggle on high end PC's, PS5 and XSX.....why would the games running on Series S be a better experience?

Thats almost like having a PC game with a high min requirement and being upset when a PC with weaker specs has issues.

I always see PC gaming being used as a counter to Series S complaints but somehow, magically, PC games with different min requirements just get left out the discussion.

 

[jm89]

Xbox is not in the position to dictate terms.

Or rather, they are trying to dictate terms. it's just that it is not benefiting them much.

They definitely tried.

Series s was probably positioned to capture market share quick with the cheap price early on. If they did capture some serious market share from sony, then that would have allowed them to have a bit more leverage.

The alternate is what we have now a compete disaster with devs hating it. I want to know how rockstar are getting on with gta6 for the series s. Phil better be praying it's going well.

 

[DragonNCM]

I mean....if games struggle on high end PC's, PS5 and XSX.....why would the games running on Series S be a better experience?

Thats almost like having a PC game with a high min requirement and being upset when a PC with weaker specs has issues.

I always see PC gaming being used as a counter to Series S complaints but somehow, magically, PC games with different min requirements just get left out the discussion.

They don't optimize anything, just basic things so game can run on consoles or PC & after they grab the money & we "betatest" the game it can magickly run 60 FPS on consoles & shit PC hardware .
Look at Starfield & Redfall.
There are so much tools you can use this days like DLSS, FSR 3, frame generation etc.
Problem is at developers & publishers not hardware.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Still love my XSS.

 

[jm89]

How about you guys learn to code ?
Your games run like ass on anything & you blame Series S ?

Maybe you can give them some tips with your years experience in game development.

 

[BlackTron]

What's scarier is that this gen will last till 2028, and when the next gen is out, 3rd party devs still have to cater to the Series S until 2031/2032 for cross-gen games.

Yeah right.

 

[BlackTron]

How about you guys learn to code ?
Your games run like ass on anything & you blame Series S ?

"Lately I've been having guilt over not doubling my efforts to support a platform where no one buys games." Moral developers be waking up sweaty in the middle of the night lately

 

[DragonNCM]

Maybe you can give them some tips with your years experience in game development.

That is their job & they are payed for that. If I'm doing my job like them I would be fired up in a second.
I pay for their games with my hard earned money & I want complete product.
I don't fucking care about their poor excuses & biching about their game, about "insert hardware here" & drama queens.

 

[jm89]

That is their job & they are payed for that. If I'm doing my job like them I would be fired up in a second.
I pay for their games with my hard earned money & I want complete product.
I don't fucking care about their poor excuses & biching about their game, about "insert hardware here" & drama queens.

Some devs don't want to code for last gen consoles like the series s

 

[spartan30gr]

Fuck this game

 

[finalflame]

Yah, no shit. Enough flaming guns out there about the XSS being a PITA to optimize for. It will get left behind, sooner or later (hopefully sooner).

 

[damidu]

What's scarier is that this gen will last till 2028, and when the next gen is out, 3rd party devs still have to cater to the Series S until 2031/2032 for cross-gen games.

They gotta put up with this piece of shit for another 7-8 years.

third party will stop giving shit for series consoles long before that, it's bethesda and activision that will have to cater to this abysmal lowest denominator.

 

[nowhat]

They don't optimize anything, just basic things so game can run on consoles or PC & after they grab the money & we "betatest" the game it can magickly run 60 FPS on consoles & shit PC hardware .

Something tells me you're not a programmer/developer?

 

[cireza]

And they are stuck with it because it's more than 50% of Xbox series sales

Thanks for reminding us of why it was a good decision to make Series S.

 

[DragonNCM]

Something tells me you're not a programmer/developer?

ofc I'm not, otherwise I will be here posting how Series S is doom of gaming & worst menace human invented in the history of mankind.
Also I would biching how no one is playing my game full of ugly fat girls & LGBTQASDFGHJKL characters.

 

[BlackTron]

Thanks for reminding us of why it was a good decision to make Series S.

Let's say XSX was the only console, and consequently Xbox sold 30-50% less units. Then there is no S to drag down game releases, Xbox enjoys greater parity, and more people buy/keep Xbox's expanding the console base, possibly beyond the number of S sold because they have a self-bolstering ecosystem. Yeah, I think Series X DE would have been better.

As opposed to the timeline we had where S just dragged down game releases, further hurting a platform now imploding so badly they're going third party.

 

[cireza]

Let's say XSX was the only console, and consequently Xbox sold 30-50% less units. Then there is no S to drag down game releases, Xbox enjoys greater parity, and more people buy/keep Xbox's expanding the console base, possibly beyond the number of S sold because they have a self-bolstering ecosystem. Yeah, I think Series X DE would have been better.

As opposed to the timeline we had where S just dragged down game releases, further hurting a platform now imploding so badly they're going third party.

The main issue here is the hyperbole about Series S dragging down releases. It simply isn't the case, except for what ? A handful of games that still made it anyway ? Giving up on 50% of your sales for such an absurd reason ? We barely stepped into PS5/X territory anyway this gen, games have been cross-platform with PS4 and even Xbox One... and still are even to this day. But Series S is an issue, let's give up on 50% sales lol.

I have never seen a gen as useless as this one. Anyone with a PS4 could simply entirely skip it.

 

[DragonNCM]

They can always optimize for Series S. Make games for series S 1440P or 1080/30fps games with aquarium graphics (like immortals of Aveum).
Case closed.......

 

[BlackTron]

The main issue here is the hyperbole about Series S dragging down releases. It simply isn't the case, except for what ? A handful of games that still made it anyway ? Giving up on 50% of your sales for such an absurd reason ? We barely stepped into PS5/X territory anyway this gen, games have been cross-platform with PS4 and even Xbox One... and still are even to this day. But Series S is an issue, let's give up on 50% sales lol.

I have never seen a gen as useless as this one. Anyone with a PS4 could simply entirely skip it.

Well Series S caused some pretty big games to be late for X which really really hurt it IMO. That's partially what secured Xbox's transformation from a place to buy games to a gamepass box. I think BG3 was the real turning point. Massive black eye.

And we don't know how many people would have just bought an X or DE if S did not exist. Which is why I said let's assume numbers are reduced by 30-50% which was overly generous. You can't really believe if Series S didn't exist Xbox would have lost that exact number of sales without anyone getting a different one.

 

[cireza]

I think BG3 was the real turning point.

But the game is available on Series S, how does it make a difference ? Enthusiasts witnessing some kind of made-up drama doesn't weight anything in the balance if at the end the game still gets released on Series S for the public to see.

And we don't know how many people would have just bought an X or DE if S did not exist.

I think we can have a rough idea : close to now one. Series S has been a budget console for people willing to invest less than 300$, and it has also been a second Xbox of choice for people already having the Series X. The positioning is so good it explains why the console represents 50% of the sales, and still sells a ton to this day.

 

[Plague Doctor]

I believe this because if there is one person that is a highly qualified expert in annoying shit, it's a dev from Suicide Squad Kill the Justice league.

 

[simpatico]

Every Xbox gamer I've met IRL only owns the S. I have yet to even hear about the Series X in meatspace. Just an anecdotal.

 

[BlackTron]

But the game is available on Series S, how does it make a difference ? Enthusiasts witnessing some kind of made-up drama doesn't weight anything in the balance if at the end the game still gets released on Series S for the public to see.

Alright skipping games at launch no longer makes a difference. Got it.

I think we can have a rough idea : close to now one. Series S has been a budget console for people willing to invest less than 300$, and it has also been a second Xbox of choice for people already having the Series X. The positioning is so good it explains why the console represents 50% of the sales, and still sells a ton to this day.

Just what they need, sell extra hardware that makes development difficult to people who already have an Xbox when they want to be a software publisher.

Every Xbox gamer I've met IRL only owns the S. I have yet to even hear about the Series X in meatspace. Just an anecdotal.

I had X first with no interest in it, but while looking for extra cheap controllers I ended up scoring the S console. At first I thought the extra system would be handy, but after a while of having a $100 S around, I found no reason to keep the X anymore and sold it (right before Starfield implosion). There's nothing I can't play either sooner or better on PC or PS so it became purposeless. I was perfectly happy just using S for BC games and streaming and PC or PS for anything I would have needed X for. Turns out exclusive shit matters who knew.

 

[semiconscious]

It's always the devs with awful games complaining.

They're right, though.

the ol' 'double whammy'...

 

[diffusionx]

It's always the devs with awful games complaining.

It takes as much work to make a bad game as a good game

 

[damidu]

It's always the devs with awful games complaining.

it's always the rats with the awful console defending

 

[DragonNCM]

But the game is available on Series S, how does it make a difference ? Enthusiasts witnessing some kind of made-up drama doesn't weight anything in the balance if at the end the game still gets released on Series S for the public to see.


I think we can have a rough idea : close to now one. Series S has been a budget console for people willing to invest less than 300$, and it has also been a second Xbox of choice for people already having the Series X. The positioning is so good it explains why the console represents 50% of the sales, and still sells a ton to this day.

You are absolutely right my friend !!!
My kids don't complain about framerate or graphics on my Series S ( they are not kids btw...16 & 23). They just play, have fun & btw they totally forgot we have PS5. GP Ultimate and they are happy. There is a lot of people like them.
THEY DONT CARE ABOUT GRAPHICS OR FPS.
Sometimes I envy them & I wish I didn't know anything about making games or HDR, FPS, resolution, upscaling, DLSS, FSR & all the steps you need to climb to make good game.
We are just minority on this forum who understands something about gaming.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Why can't they just lower the spec like crappy PC' s are? Release a version a little less resolution, a little less FPS ....like lower end PC's?

 

[damidu]

Why can't they just lower the spec like crappy PC' s are? Release a version a little less resolution, a little less FPS ....like lower end PC's?

they are doing that by default and probably still running out of the pitiful memory.
no one will care if the latest aaa release runs like shit on low recommended pc spec. its an accepted fact by the public
here you would be selling a broken game to the half of the series user base.