The Mad Draklor
Member
OG Xbox sold 25 million lifetime. The Series at least beat it out, but its lifetime sales will finish way closer to the OG Xbox than the Xbox One.
Xbox Series X | S Estimated to Have Sold 37 million units
- Thread starter Daniel_Mallorca1985
- Start date
- News Hardware
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
So Xbox sales (- Steam Deck and other similar handheld sales) is significantly less than 37M, according to you?
MisterXDTV
Member
Imagine telling someone that Xbox Series would be outsold big time by XBOX ONE in 2020
With 2 consoles vs 1
LOL
With 2 consoles vs 1
LOL
Topher
Identifies as young
What do you get out of trying to tear down a reputable industry figure like Kepler? Not sure welfare is aware of how he has come across in all this
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So Xbox sales (- Steam Deck and other similar handheld sales) is significantly less than 37M, according to you?
This is the closest thing we have to a verifiable number.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
A developer from a studio that works on the platform will probably have direct information, like Take 2's access to IDG reports that was cited earlier in the thread.
Kepler also cited that and other reports, he didn't cite having actual verifiable hardware shipment numbers from MS.
Last edited:
RetroGamingUK
Member
The original Xbox had a very short life, especially in Europe as it didn't release until March 2002.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
LOL not it won't, especially when MS doesn't divulge numbers, and an artist is not a publisher.A developer from a studio that works on the platform will probably have direct information, like Take 2's access to IDG reports that was cited earlier in the thread.
Kepler also cited that and other reports, he didn't cite having actual verifiable hardware shipment numbers from MS.
RetroGamingUK
Member
This is the closest thing we have to a verifiable number.
Look at how sad and desperate you are.
You're haggling over a couple of million units.
4 console generations and not a single Xbox console has reached 100+ million like Sony and Nintendo regularly achieve.
Only one that came close was the 360, largely down to people having to rebuy the broken piece of shit to carry on playing Halo 3.
Pathetic
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
This is the closest thing we have to a verifiable number.
An artist at Turtle Rock Studios? Why?
You think Microsoft sends out console unit sales numbers to artists at third party studios?
Last edited:
bender
What time is it?
The Series consoles have sold 100m+ in his heart.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Welfare? The Welfare that mixed area for volume, mixed units, had Copilot doing (wrong) maths for him to calculate the number of PS5s Kabum could have in storage in that Eiffel tower thread? That Welfare?
I'm sure his numbers are solid.
I'm sure his numbers are solid.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You're saying that in this thread where people are biting at Welfare's heels to get him to reduce his estimates because it isn't low enough.
The Mad Draklor
Member
And AMD (you know, the company that makes and ships the chips to MS and Sony for their respective consoles) is not a direct-enough source?A developer from a studio that works on the platform will probably have direct information, like Take 2's access to IDG reports that was cited earlier in the thread.
Kepler also cited that and other reports, he didn't cite having actual verifiable hardware shipment numbers from MS.
PropellerEar
Member
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
You're saying that in this thread where people are biting at Welfare's heels to get him to reduce his estimates because it isn't low enough.
I don't think anyone is asking him to reduce anything. Folks just think his numbers are wrong.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sure, if AMD has given numbers on Series consoles, that'd be great.
All I see are people deciphering Lisa Siu's PR statements to see what is and isn't a console.
Ar¢tos
Member
100m is more than 30m, so the math checks out, AMD has no idea how many chips they sold and it's spitting out random numbers out of desperation, it's the only logical explanation for Kepler numbers not matching Welfare low balling estimate of 37m.
The Mad Draklor
Member
We don't need AMD to specifically only give Series consoles numbers. We know the total overall semi-custom numbers, PS5/PS5 Pro numbers, and Steam Deck numbers.
There's documentation from AMD on what constitutes as semi-custom vs off-the-shelf as already shown on this thread. I fail to see where people are "deciphering PR statements".
Topher
Identifies as young
Last edited:
Jaybe
Member
Yeah, Welfare has overestimated Xbox for sometime. It must be embarrassing to be so far off from the actually numbers, especially running a site that basically just comments on Circana monthly reports. I've seen him try to conflate some murky retailer data as being meaningful, and as I work in the consumer goods market data industry, I just laugh and shake my head in his reaches.
PropellerEar
Member
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I mean ... when you have people diving into people's statements to try and decipher if Steam Deck even is a console ..
Deciphering artist's statements are more reliable
Probably.
Didn't say MS or Satya are sending information to that artist directly, just that they would probably know being in a senior position at a company which ships on Xbox. Not that different from Take 2 using IDG numbers in their report.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Semi-custom, adam. Semi-custom.
Baemono
Member
The whole point was fact-checking, you wrote a whole paragraph saying « this is fine but what if I have fun? »
Baemono
Member
I mean by 2020 they were offering Xbox Ones in cereal boxes and happy meals
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
That's fine but the fact that it's even a point of contention leaves room for doubt.
The only way to put a pin on this is if AMD/MS/Circana/Schrieir give info by name.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Is it even a point of contention? AMD made it rather clear, so I fail to see where is this "deciphering"...That's fine but the fact that it's even a point of contention leaves room for doubt.
The only way to put a pin on this is if AMD/MS/Circana/Schrieir give info by name.
Baemono
Member
AMD said « semi customs is Xbox, PS5 and Steam Deck » and then on the same report, « semi custom sales exceded 100 million »That's fine but the fact that it's even a point of contention leaves room for doubt.
The only way to put a pin on this is if AMD/MS/Circana/Schrieir give info by name.
Where is the point of contention ?
Welfare says this isn't the same thing, I don't know how though
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
No contention, but "exceeded" is so vague, it can mean exceeded by 0.01 or by double digit millions.
Topher
Identifies as young
Probably.
Didn't say MS or Satya are sending information to that artist directly, just that they would probably know being in a senior position at a company which ships on Xbox. Not that different from Take 2 using IDG numbers in their report.
You are saying "trust me bro" and citing IDG are "not that different" my man. Come on now
Last edited:
Baemono
Member
I couldn't tell you mate, maybe he just can't admit he's wrong?
I'm simply disputing that he has a motive to inflate Xbox numbers. I think he believes what he believes.
Perhaps I'm being naive?
For record I'll repeat my opinion, there's no way Xbox is at 37m.
I'm with estimates that put it around 30m to 32m.
Ar¢tos
Member
3rd party studios (at least indies) get zero information from platform holders about install base.I mean ... when you have people diving into people's statements to try and decipher if Steam Deck even is a console ..
Probably.
Didn't say MS or Satya are sending information to that artist directly, just that they would probably know being in a senior position at a company which ships on Xbox. Not that different from Take 2 using IDG numbers in their report.
They have to pay external companies that do these estimates based on sales/retailer information, etc. There are tons of companies selling these statistics.
That's what a rep for an indie studio told me once (in the ps4/X1 era).
Baemono
Member
Which is funny cause Microsoft paid analysts firms to determine how much PS consoles Sony sold during the trial, while the information is available for free.
And the analysts were off (they overestimated the number of PS consoles somehow)
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Dude I'm not saying anything, I'm just copying what a Turtle Rock Studio's senior employee wrote.
I wish I had this kind of info first hand.
Sure, and while I wouldn't call Turtle Rock a small/indie studio, I bet they also paid researchers and firms for those figures, and senior employees from the studio knowing these numbers is hardly a surprising thing.
Makes sense, right?
You're absolutely right
xrnzaaas
Member
The numbers are bad no matter how you look at it. Before MS started to pull their hardware from select markets both consoles were sold REALLY cheap without having to wait for discounts, especially Series S. It was by far the cheapest hardware to play modern games, even cheaper than the PS4's from the remaining stock.
This happens when you make a number of bad/horrible decisions to make your hardware unattractive no matter the price.
This happens when you make a number of bad/horrible decisions to make your hardware unattractive no matter the price.
Topher
Identifies as young
Equating that artist to IDG is more than just copying what he said.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Though you're making an assumption that they did just that. Like Topher said, this is extreme "trust me bro™" energy.
Meanwhile, those who cite AMD's numbers and calculate how much the Series consoles sold based on available information on the PS5 and Steam Deck sales do not need to assume. AMD is a 1st party source and does not need to pay 3rd party sources to retrieve information.
Topher
Identifies as young
To be clear, I wasn't directing any of that towards you. Think you are making good points.
I don't know that Welfare has any motive here at all. No way to know and I try to not make assumptions. But the way he has gone about this debate has me looking at him with a bit of a side eye. Kind of hard not to when someone asks him about his 37 million number and replies that using his estimates against him was a personal attack. That wreaks of micro-aggression rhetoric, frankly.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The Mad Draklor
Member
It's actually even worse than that. He said that citing his estimates is an ad hominem... which is not how it works. If people were saying his numbers are wrong because he must have a pro-Xbox agenda, then yes, that is an ad hominem. But that is not the case.
The majority have been going like "Hold on... something seems off" and have made compelling counterarguments from citing AMD's semi-custom numbers to using the US share of Xbox sales to come up with a ballpark worldwide number.
And Welfare was asked multiple times here to make his case. He explicitly chose not to and went to other platforms where he wouldn't be challenged. That's the part where it raised everyone's eyebrows.
bender
What time is it?
If it were double digit millions, the marketing blurb would state exceeded 110 million.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah.....if he really wants to be considered an authority in industry numbers then he is going to have to do better than this. Can't just throw out numbers and expect the world to nod their head in agreement (well....some of the world anyway) without question. Much less try to use an opposing view as a deflection away from his assertions because somehow understating a number (in his view) is somehow the greater evil than overstating it.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
This is hilarious.This is the closest thing we have to a verifiable number.
Why would a lighting artist at Turtle Rock Studios know how many Xbox consoles have sold worldwide? And how is it "the closest thing" when we have Kepler's statement (a 100% reliable AMD leaker) that XBS is less than 30 million?
Also, when we look at AMD's own public data, we can see that if we take the total AMD chips sold and deduct PS5 and Steam Deck numbers from it, XBS come at less than 30M - which is in line with what Kepler said.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Exactly!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
But I didn't do that tho, like
The Mad Draklor
said, these companies usually pay for this research, I'm saying it would be the least surprising thing if that senior artist is speaking from a point of knowledge that his company did. It would not be any different than T2 using the same IDG numbers in their report that was cited earlier in this thread.-
See above.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
But I didn't do that tho, like
It isn't the same thing because Take Two cited their source and this artist did not. Wild assumption to equate the two.