Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
ROFL
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
XCOM 2 |OT| Be Aggressive! Be Be Aggressive!
- Thread starter Sober
- Start date
ROFL
RandomSeed
Member
Devs uploaded a defense mission on YouTube. I'm putting on my tinfoil hat and saying since this was made before release (mention preorder), they decided to hold back due to all the glitches. "We didn't knooooooooooow!"
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I miss ghost armor and archangel armor.
I'm finding L\I a lot easier by using as many grenadiers and scouts as possible.
I'm 100% convinced that in the early game, snipers are a liability. When you have 4 soldiers, you absolutely cannot afford one of them not shooting that turn due to LoS shenigans.
2 ranger \ 2 grenadiers is probably best at the squaddies level.
I don't think supports are ever worth it, but snipers probably are once you get into Lightning Hands \ Faceoff \ Kill Zone territory, and probably become best class once you get access to Serial or Fan Fire.
Obviously, 90% of my lone recruits getting mission-promoted have been Supports.
Archangel was amazing.
I'm 100% convinced that in the early game, snipers are a liability. When you have 4 soldiers, you absolutely cannot afford one of them not shooting that turn due to LoS shenigans.
2 ranger \ 2 grenadiers is probably best at the squaddies level.
I don't think supports are ever worth it, but snipers probably are once you get into Lightning Hands \ Faceoff \ Kill Zone territory, and probably become best class once you get access to Serial or Fan Fire.
Obviously, 90% of my lone recruits getting mission-promoted have been Supports.
Archangel was amazing.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Agreed on the early game. Shotguns are just so cheap, and you save a lot of money by not building mag snipers.
Specialists can be useful, especially on hacking missions. They're really good if you like to set up a lot of overwatch traps, too. Guardian + Threat Assessment + Scopes + Aim PCS = lots of damage on overwatch.
RandomSeed
Member
I imagine they are going to patch the Sectoid AI so they shoot more, and that is going to make the early game so much tougher.
And I'm sure I've seen enemies wearing Archangel armor? Wait, they were just glitched and floating in the air.
And I'm sure I've seen enemies wearing Archangel armor? Wait, they were just glitched and floating in the air.
Specialist currently rocking 205 hack value.
Long Legendary game is loooooooooong. I've cleaned out the tech tree and am finally mopping up the story. (Blacksite Vial coordinates mission right now, heh)
Capacitor Discharge is also an awesome nuke, even if it's a one-and-done.
Long Legendary game is loooooooooong. I've cleaned out the tech tree and am finally mopping up the story. (Blacksite Vial coordinates mission right now, heh)
Capacitor Discharge is also an awesome nuke, even if it's a one-and-done.
I understand the sentiment, but a sharpshooter's perception makes them one of the higher-percentage hitters in the early game. I'd say that rangers with the starting shotgun are the liability, as their to-hit percentage -- combined with the abysmal range -- is way too low. Rangers don't get useful for me until they get their first sword skill -- sectoids in one hit -- and when I swap out the starting weapon for a mag rifle.
Of course, I swap back the shard shotgun later in the game, once their to-hit improves.
I don't think Specialists or Snipers are particularly amazing until mid-late game when they get threat assessment and kill zone. Especially specialists. Combat protocols are replaced if you can find a stock or even luckier advanced stock to completely make it moot and you pretty much only bring them for long range hacking after that. Tower hack bonuses are largely underwhelming as well. The only useful ones I can remember are recover all action points spent, control a random enemy, and disorient all enemies. All the other ones aren't useful because they apply to your weakest soldier (the hacker) and are unreliable to get for the whole squad or they're bugged (immunity and re-concealment). Probably the worst thing about specialists is they only effectively get one sub par offensive action on any turn. Assaults also suffer from the one offensive action per turn, but it's made up by their high damage and mobility making them great assassins.
Snipers at least get lightning hands early to help them push out slightly more damage, not to mention the minimum 4 on hit instead of 3 with main weapon. But they also require phantom rangers to truly make use of their long watch so you can activate pods relatively safely (i.e. on their turn).
I never use assaults from range so I find their accuracy pretty amazing because +40% gets you 100%+ to hit a lot lol. Mine are slow to level up since I try to keep one concealed until I really need their action or it's what I think the last pod to feed them xp. At least until run & gun. After run & gun it's kill everything with the assault because there's nowhere to hide.
Snipers at least get lightning hands early to help them push out slightly more damage, not to mention the minimum 4 on hit instead of 3 with main weapon. But they also require phantom rangers to truly make use of their long watch so you can activate pods relatively safely (i.e. on their turn).
I never use assaults from range so I find their accuracy pretty amazing because +40% gets you 100%+ to hit a lot lol. Mine are slow to level up since I try to keep one concealed until I really need their action or it's what I think the last pod to feed them xp. At least until run & gun. After run & gun it's kill everything with the assault because there's nowhere to hide.
Yeah when I said mid-late I meant they aren't useful until mid and late game eras.
Okay, people. Round up.
I've cleared C/I, and never even built Mimic Beacons because internet told me they're cheating.
I'm making a good dent into L/I now: Should i keep up the no-mimics thing, or just abuse whatever comes?
(Anyone has a mod that nerfs Mimics? and maybe buffs Swords \ makes grenade damage falloff?)
Yeah, but on the other hand, you find like... 2 perception PCSs per run.
Soooo....
Also, Avatar project is ridicolously forgiving. Just always have a story\facility lined up, and when the timer hits 2-3 days, sweep it up.
Starting shotgun is goddamn great.
Go melee, that's a 100% hit.
a 4-6 damage, 50% crit hit, not that 3-damage grenade you had.
I've cleared C/I, and never even built Mimic Beacons because internet told me they're cheating.
I'm making a good dent into L/I now: Should i keep up the no-mimics thing, or just abuse whatever comes?
(Anyone has a mod that nerfs Mimics? and maybe buffs Swords \ makes grenade damage falloff?)
Yeah, but on the other hand, you find like... 2 perception PCSs per run.
Soooo....
Also, Avatar project is ridicolously forgiving. Just always have a story\facility lined up, and when the timer hits 2-3 days, sweep it up.
Starting shotgun is goddamn great.
Go melee, that's a 100% hit.
a 4-6 damage, 50% crit hit, not that 3-damage grenade you had.
TC McQueen
Member
I put a dodge one on my Phantom Ranger, since she needs it when she can't kill an enemy and trigger Implacable.
yanipheonu
Member
Man I'd be more down for Legendary if it wasn't so long. I get it's keeping Long War stuff in mind, but I'd much prefer harder encounters with a snappier pace. Might be a mod for it.
Lol I love that they just throw a sectoid into the first mission. As if to say, "That's XCOM baby!"
Lol I love that they just throw a sectoid into the first mission. As if to say, "That's XCOM baby!"
vpance
Member
That rare, really? I got bombarded with them on my first game, like 2 from loot and most from black market. Got around 7 in total, and they were throwing Superior ones at me late game.
Shake Appeal
Member
I didn't even get enough PCS across ~40 missions to put one on all six of my squad. Had to supplement from the black market.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
They're at or near 100% when you're near the enemy. That kind of accuracy is why I like to use them as well.
The problem (read hax) about mimics is ayys go out of their way to attack it, including flanking themselves. I found them as get-out-of-jail free cards for when I fucked up.
re:mods
fall-off damage
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=626050983
Don't know others off the top of my head.
RandomSeed
Member
If you play on ironman, I say take one per mission, and just use it if you pull too many pods at once. I mean my legendary playthrough is still early on, and I'm not a great player like some, but to me they are working as intended. Even playing on commander, once or twice per playthrough some BS happens where enemies see through walls or something, and then (using a mod that ups pod sizes) I'm looking at 8-12 enemies on the screen at once. Doesn't happen often, but man.
Leaving enemies around when you end your turn is just asking for it in this game. If cover was improved, and offered some damage resistance or something, then I'd say sure, forget those beacons.
Currently playing this with a DUALSHOCK 4 and really enjoying my time with this game. Playing on the tv while sitting in bed is awesome. Performance ranging from okay to not okay.
I gotta say, there are times where there are a ton of enemies they throw at you for no reason sometimes. Like, the mission is pretty much over and they are still sending dropships and I'm at the evac. Wtf?
Question: it says I can upgrade my squad through "g.t.s" ? Wtf is that shit?
I gotta say, there are times where there are a ton of enemies they throw at you for no reason sometimes. Like, the mission is pretty much over and they are still sending dropships and I'm at the evac. Wtf?
Question: it says I can upgrade my squad through "g.t.s" ? Wtf is that shit?
TC McQueen
Member
You probably got the reinforcement Dark Event or something.
Guerrilla Tactics School.
Stands for Guerilla Tactics School I think. You can build it to train soldiers and upgrade your squad size and other stuff like a 25% exp boost per kill.
Oh. Neat. I guess me wasting all my supplies on pointless shit is gonna fuck me later huh? Great. Hired a lot of recruits (because they looked cool) that I will prob never need because my main crew is so beast mode and rarely get wounded.
Reinforcement dark event? I was wondering what that big red screen was. I didn't read it because it looked too confusing and wordy. So I just quickly pressed confirm and made the screen go away. I just look at the map, and go to the red thingies and kill them.
lol. this gunna be gud
TC McQueen
Member
Vex Krone should do an LP of his campaign. I bet it'll be even more amazing than the Super Best Friend one.
There are a lot of posts with the same sentiment, but I'll reply to this one: Is it really near 100% when you're near the enemy? I've been 3-4 tiles away from an enemy before, flanked with good angle and it was 85% -- which counts for natural defenses of the enemy.
Also, to the other poster above, I've always thought that the crit-hit percentage overlaps the normal to-hit percentage instead of adding to it...?
I play ironman, but i'll alt-f4 at 'disagreements' between my brain and the visibility rules, or UI-grenades disagreements.
Missclicks too, but only if i catch them before rolls are unveiled.
I don't end up with multipacks often.
Crit overlaps.
100% is melee or one tile away. Shotgun outdamages sword, so don't even bother bringing that one up - which isn't even a 100% hit anyway.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah, it's pretty high. Open the shot breakdowns, and you can see how much aim is added due to proximity. Add a couple more rangers with run 'n gun, and you can get point blank flanks very consistently.
But what also matters is the damage output. Shotguns are much more likely to one-shot an enemy compared to rifles. A lot of times, all you need is the minimal damage roll to get a kill. Whereas with rifles, not only do you have to pray that you roll a hit, you also have to pray that it rolls on the high end of the damage scale in order to get the kill.
The way the game works is kinda binary sometimes. An enemy that is still alive at the end of your turn with 1HP left is almost the same threat level as an enemy who who is still alive and with full HP.
In early game? Aren't shotguns 5-7, whereas swords are 6 (and +2 with the first ability)?
But run and gun isn't in the early game...? I'm strictly speaking about the early parts when the to-hit is poor and your enemies still have relatively low HP.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Sword in early game can still miss on targets and there is nothing worse than having a now-flanked and out of position unit because of a sword swing. In the early game it's better to just play with the Sectoid AI by chipping it with damage and let it res an enemy before blasting it away with the shotgun. Phantom is just an absolutely better skill all around for the entirety of the game versus +2 damage on a sword.
The starting sword is 3-5 I think.
Green Card
Member
I'm on the last mission and my save is bugged. I load it up and can't select any units (i already gave each unit their orders) and it won't end my turn and go to alien activity. Nothing happens. I'm on ironman so there are no previous saves. Is this a known issue?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Well, yeah, with phantom, you can sneak up on enemies pretty close and blast them, and with shadowstrike, your accuracy and crit increase.
Ranger squaddie stats:
Shotguns are 4-6 damage, with proximity bonuses get you up to +40% to hit, which is 108% to hit at melee range.
Swords are 3-5 damage (+3 vs sectoids) and at melee range 88% to hit, because they only get +20% hit bonus from proximity.
Unless you're the full yellow move length away, you can typically get your ranger close enough with a blue move to have the same accuracy as a sword or better, with better cover choices, more damage, and fewer chances of activating more pods. I guess cover is something to worry about with shotguns but you should be blowing it all up anyway so...
Whew. I fucked around with alien alloys and couldn't rush Plated Armor.
Now i get to do Berserkers, Mutons and the goddamn blacksite without armor. Which means practically everything oneshots my guys, and a grenade is 40d in the infirmary.
... I need plated armor.
Also, i have two mimic beacons. They're coming out for the blacksite, no fucks given.
The +2 skill goes up against literally the best skill in the game, so it may aswell not exist.
Now i get to do Berserkers, Mutons and the goddamn blacksite without armor. Which means practically everything oneshots my guys, and a grenade is 40d in the infirmary.
... I need plated armor.
Also, i have two mimic beacons. They're coming out for the blacksite, no fucks given.
Shotguns are 4-6, with +40% to crit on flanking, swords are 3-5. Swords get +3 damage against Sectoids only.
The +2 skill goes up against literally the best skill in the game, so it may aswell not exist.
SpartanSlayer117
Member
I'm gonna start my L/I run(s) soon so i want to know the most useful builds for you guys playing Legendary.
I'm playing C/I and 4 of my units just became Colonels after the"defense" mission and i can't decide between the last perks for either Grenadiers, Snipers. Did you guys keep the same builds/strategies for Legendary? Any tips for not getting destroyed in the first few months?
I'm playing C/I and 4 of my units just became Colonels after the"defense" mission and i can't decide between the last perks for either Grenadiers, Snipers. Did you guys keep the same builds/strategies for Legendary? Any tips for not getting destroyed in the first few months?
Glitchesarecool
Member
I haven't really changed my builds as I've been working my way up, but then again I have to keep starting over on Legendary because of one problem or another.
Rupture is so much better than Saturation. Actually I've found using the Shredder Cannon is basically the same thing as having Saturation, and Rupture has a much shorter cooldown. 3 additional damage is no joke on those heavier units.
Sharpshooter is a much harder tossup. Serial is theoretically good but you really need to have extended mags and a bunch of weakened enemies to make it worthwhile. Fan Fire is a nice way to quickly soften up a target, just be careful not to use it on Codex or Avatars because it's three separate instances of damage, not the damage of three stacked into one damage total.
Edit: I realize you're asking for general build advice. Whoops.
Sharpshooter: Long Watch, Lightning Hands, Quickdraw, Killzone or Faceoff (both are really good, toss that up to your personal taste), Steady Hands, Fan Fire.
Ranger: Phantom, Shadowstep, Run and Gun (though conceal can be very good too), Bladestorm, Untouchable, Rapid Fire.
Specialist: Combat side. None of the medical class ones really matter with how damage works in this game.
Grenadier: Blast Padding but I'll often retrain for Shredder later when armor appears, Suppression, Heavy Ordnance, Volatile Mix, Salvo, Rupture.
Some of it is also adjustable based on what the AWC rewards you. I've gotten a Sharpshooter with Untouchable which pushes me more towards the Gunslinger perks.
I've just gone through this.
First: Beeline either gauss weapons or plated armor. Everything else doesn't matter. You need that shit, and you need it PRONTO. And it's not going to be fast, because welcome to legendary build times & research times.
Second: Redo the initial mission until you get 4 guys alive.
In general, you need to pay a lot more attention to the strategic layer, and any multi-pod pulls are going to be extremely dangerous, probably up to "Mimic beacon or die".
SpartanSlayer117
Member
Thanks for the quick reply. My builds are very similar to yours with a few variations here and there. I always pick demolition over supression but i rarely use that. Because well, explosions.
That AWC untouchable on your Gunslinger Sniper is gold. Best i've gotten is Killzone on my Ranger Shotgunner and Phantom on my Grenadier.
Specialists I build pretty much full combat hacker. Given the way medics work in 2, it's like, they're there to stop you from losing more, so I prefer to try to do well enough where I'm not losing lol. I guess the only one I have trouble choosing is Ever Vigilant vs Guardian, but only because Vigilant let's you push faster in the timed missions without feeling like you wasted your turn activating a pod.
Grenadiers I straight up pick shredder->suppression for the first two levels. There's merit to picking blast padding first but I'm finding enemies do enough damage to kill you anyway even through the armor point. Also, armored enemies come fairly early so I find there's not a lot of dead time where you aren't able to use shredder. For Lt/Capt. I like having 1 go gunner support and get holo targeting and chain shot, with additional grenadiers going heavy ordinance and volatile mix (having +2 damage on fire/acid/poison ticks is amazing). Salvo is a must at Major and Colonel I prefer rupture. I keep trying to like saturation fire but too often cover doesn't get destroyed or even worse there's a miss on the enemy. Rupture on the other hand is amazing always.
Snipers I run Long Watch->Lightning Hands->Quickdraw. DFA doesn't let you fire the rifle again but quick draw has great synergy with fan fire for gunslingers and if you get the right AWC perks you can even shoot the rifle on 2nd action. Killzone lets you break concealment on the enemy turn, but you only need 1 person with it. Flat out I think Steady Hands is better than aim because I hunker down maybe 5 times in a campaign. Also with grapple you can keep steady hands bonuses. Between Serial and Fan Fire, I think it's up to the AWC which bonuses you get for synergy. Fan Fire on a ruptured target is ridic damage though, and that's before you add in ammo bonuses.
Rangers unfortunately are all the same for me. Phantom->Shadowstep->Run & Gun->Implacable->Untouchable->Rapid Fire. If swords were better it might change things, but sadly they are not.
Glitchesarecool
Member
I personally never saw a point in Demolition because you have grenades. Up to three uses when ranked up enough. Suppression's Aim penalty has absolutely saved my butt more than once on the harder hitters.
Here's a few other amusing ones.
I might take you up on that idea. Just gotta find the time, I have a couple of vids already due to shadowplay always running in the background recording in 10minute chunks. Lol
SpartanSlayer117
Member
Thanks for all the good info guys, can't wait to finish this C/I run and dive in to Legendary.
Glitchesarecool
Member
TIL that through the Deception hacking bonus from a tower, you can gain control of the enemy VIP in a mission.
*sob*
*sob*
Hmm, okay, I stand corrected.
So having stuck with only the non-stealth build of Rangers, how does sneaking up on an enemy work? Wouldn't the sight radius catch them before they even get reasonably close? Or am I misjudging how close I'd have to be for shadowstrike to be effective?
+40% from flanking, right? Also...
Hm, so that's something I completely didn't know. Swords are +3 versus sectoids? No wonder I had my damage calculations off... because I only use swords against sectoids and vipers.
Okay, so now that I've replied to all that, can someone teach me how to use stealthed rangers properly? I literally play them as a more aggressive version of the old Assault class.
You get +40% crit from flanking. The hit% doesn't care about flank.
CertifiedFP
Member
Speaking of that...
Might it be more useful to Dominate an ADVENT VIP rather than Subdue them since it'll keep one of your men free to keep shooting rather than carry the VIP - AND allow you to kill the VIP if necessary instead of being hard-locked into having to carry them to extraction to win?
...To whoever at Firaxis made it so Subdued VIPs can't be killed afterward and HAVE to be dragged to extraction... Go fu- Go to Confession next Sunday. For you sinned.