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[Jawmuncher]

I don't even care about the reason for OG xbox emulation.
It's still just odd and kind of wrong that we'll be seeing 360 and PS3 emulators before.

 

[Waaghals]

I hate to break it to you, but when 2037 rolls around and you're finally able to emulate PGR4, it's still going to be running at 30 fps. I'll gladly eat my words if they manage to develop a process which adds frames of animation that don't actually exist.

I don't think you know how this works.

There are hacks that can unlock the framerate of emulated games without speeding them up.

It is true that this might not always work, and that it might be a lot of hassle, but it is certainly possible.

Video games are not like movies where it runs at a given frame rate and the other frames do not exist. Video games render their frames on the fly, so it is quite possible to make them render more.

 

[MaLDo]

I don't think you know how this works.

There are hacks that can unlock the framerate of emulated games without speeding them up.

It is true that this might not always work, and that it might be a lot of hassle, but it is certainly possible.

Video games are not like movies where it runs at a given frame rate and the other frames do not exist. Video games render their frames on the fly, so it is quite possible to make them render more.

You can use SVP to render other frames in movies, and in games too.

 

[Waaghals]

You can use SVP to render other frames in movies, and in games too.

I assume that means interpolation? As in just merging the existing frames?
I believe people who want "real" 60hz.

I'm not as knowledgeable as you when it comes to stuff like this so I'll defer to your judgment.

 

[Sentenza]

I don't think you know how this works.

He smugly claiming you'll need to wait 2037 should give you a clear hint about it.

 

[MaLDo]

I assume that means interpolation? As in just merging the existing frames?
I believe people who want "real" 60hz.

I'm not as knowledgeable as you when it comes to stuff like this so I'll defer to your judgment.

No blending, just real interpolation. Obviously there is a problem with added input lag.

http://www.svp-team.com/

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Cool, I'll still be able to play my CAVE shoot'em'ups in five years.

 

[1st Course]

Apparently the Xbox was poorly documented or something, which makes emulating it way harder. It also has some funky software stuff going on IIRC.

Yeah even the 360 official emulation of the OG Xbox is terrible.

 

[c0de]

how much of a rig you need to emulate a 360?

Imagine what rig you need to emulate a Wii. Now look at Wii specs, compare graphics from Wii to 360, look at 360-specs. Most probably such a rig doesn't exist right now (for fluid emulation, that is).

 

[cascardian]

That's quite and achievement and something to be proud of! Both RPCSP3 and Xenia will need a dynamic recompiler core to make things acceptably fast, though. So, if you're wondering, until that's implemented, it will continue to run that slow. Interpreters are always going to be much slower.

 

[Ty4on]

I'm starting to have a hard time believing this post. OG Xbox harder than 360 and PS3? Seems more like lack of interest to me.

The post says it right there. X86 is harder to emulate than PPC (which has been done before, Dolphin) and no one outside Nvidia knows fully how the GPU works. In Windows the game goes through Nvidia's DX driver.

The Xbox had a big core following so I think there is a lot of interest. Outside of emulation there was a lot of Xbox modding.

 

[rjc571]

I don't think you know how this works.

There are hacks that can unlock the framerate of emulated games without speeding them up.

It is true that this might not always work, and that it might be a lot of hassle, but it is certainly possible.

Video games are not like movies where it runs at a given frame rate and the other frames do not exist. Video games render their frames on the fly, so it is quite possible to make them render more.

List of every game in history that can run at 60 fps on an emulator but is limited to 30 fps on native hardware:
1.Kingdom Hearts
2. Kingdom Hearts 2

Good luck expecting that a hack will exist some day for any one single game. Might as well plan your future around the expectation that you'll win the lottery.

 

[Klyka]

Bayonetta 1 at 1080p/60fps yes please!

 

[c0de]

The post says it right there. X86 is harder to emulate than PPC (which has been done before, Dolphin) and no one outside Nvidia knows fully how the GPU works. In Windows the game goes through Nvidia's DX driver.

The Xbox had a big core following so I think there is a lot of interest. Outside of emulation there was a lot of Xbox modding.

IIRC the ISA of 360 is quite different to the PPC that is used in Wii. Additionally, I remember reading that emulation of OG Xbox is quite complicated because changes in the XDKs were quite massive and for compatibility this was/is a necessity. Furthermore you don't have to completely emulate x86 to make it run on x86.

 

[Sentenza]

Imagine what rig you need to emulate a Wii. Now look at Wii specs, compare graphics from Wii to 360, look at 360-specs. Most probably such a rig doesn't exist right now (for fluid emulation, that is).

That's not how it works.
It may even end to be the case, but when it comes to emulation, the computational power need to emulate two different pieces of hardware isn't *necessarily* proportional to their difference in power.

 

[Tain]

Cool, I'll still be able to play my CAVE shoot'em'ups in five years.

Cave's arcade hardware is much closer to being emulated, actually. Obviously not the higher resolutions versions of the games, though.

And this obviously doesn't apply to Deathsmiles 2, lol.

 

[Sentenza]

The post says it right there. X86 is harder to emulate than PPC (which has been done before, Dolphin)

The problem with that argument is that eventually, knowing enough about how the original hardware works, you could even not need to do it at all.
Ideal scenario: you don't emulate a x86 if you are running a x86, you filter that subset of instructions that don't work natively and use some sort of "interpreter" to translate them.

Not every emulator needs to go "in the byuu's way" replicating the hardware perfectly via software.
In fact, that's a damn inefficient way to do it which a developer should consider only if:
1- he values perfect accuracy above any other metric
2- he has a very detailed documentation of the original hardware
3- he has a lot (A LOT) of surplus power to spare.

 

[Canis lupus]

In a decade's time when this is ready, will we be able to play OG Xbox games that ran on 360s emulator on this emulator? Would be nice, ya dawg we heard...

 

[Fadobo]

That's not how it works.
It may even end to be the case, but when it comes to emulation, the computational power need to emulate two different pieces of hardware isn't *necessarily* proportional to their difference in power.

Especially with the Xbox 360's architecture being relatively close to a PC, using a DirectX-like graphics abstraction layer, there might be quite a few short-cuts when it comes to graphics processing.

 

[Atolm]

The post says it right there. X86 is harder to emulate than PPC (which has been done before, Dolphin) and no one outside Nvidia knows fully how the GPU works. In Windows the game goes through Nvidia's DX driver.

The Xbox had a big core following so I think there is a lot of interest. Outside of emulation there was a lot of Xbox modding.

And yet, do we know how the Xenos and RSX work when they're much more advanced?

 

[RaikuHebi]

Digital curation. I love it.

 

[-MB-]

More fitting.

 

[ampere]

Really cool that this project is progressing.

For those asking for OG Xbox emulation:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=48088464&postcount=26

My dream of playing Conker Reloaded on PC... :'(

 

[c0de]

That's not how it works.
It may even end to be the case, but when it comes to emulation, the computational power need to emulate two different pieces of hardware isn't *necessarily* proportional to their difference in power.

I didn't say proportional. But emulating 360 will definitely require way more power than Wii (more cores, faster cores, better performance, high-speed interconnections, way better gpu).

 

[c0de]

Especially with the Xbox 360's architecture being relatively close to a PC, using a DirectX-like graphics abstraction layer, there might be quite a few short-cuts when it comes to graphics processing.

What? The architecture is absolutely different to PC. The software not that much but this won't help as you have to execute actual ppc-code.

 

[gragy10]

Guys. Suspend this project until we can emulate Rallisport Challenge 2. Please.

Cheer this man.
Seriously tho, I have my PC version of RSC 1 but i want them hill climb courses back in my life without having to set up an increasingly frail OG xbox

 

[To Far Away Times]

I'm starting to have a hard time believing this post. OG Xbox harder than 360 and PS3? Seems more like lack of interest to me.

Documentation is really important for emulating newer systems. I believe the GCN/Wii are emulated as well as they are due to having good documentation/information leaks for the systems. PS2 was something similar IIRC.

 

[Atolm]

Well, I don't know if it counts as documentation but the full Xbox SDK was available at most piracy websites months after release. Most emulators and apps like the original XBMC were compiled with those SDKs.

 

[charlequin]

Well, I don't know if it counts as documentation but the full Xbox SDK was available at most piracy websites months after release.

It helps but it doesn't cover a lot of the hardware details that are necessary for effective emulation. I wouldn't believe anyone who says that Xbox emu is "impossible" or anything like that, but it's certainly in a rough spot in terms of the available information.

 

[clav]

Damn that project is some hardcore coding without much documentation.

Maybe MS may pick him up for a special project for the Xbox One?

What was the rationale at the time to use PPC for the Xbox 360 + PS3?

 

[PGamer]

Xenia has now booted a second game: The Conveni 200X.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Yeah even the 360 official emulation of the OG Xbox is terrible.

Depends on the game.

 

[Alo81]

Xenia has now booted a second game: The Conveni 200X.

I was sort of thinking this might deserve it's own thread but I guess probably not huh. Still, super exciting!

 

[inner-G]

I'll take RDR in 1440p however I can get it

 

[a Master Ninja]

I want to play Ninja Gaiden Black on a PC emulating an Xbox 360 emulating an original Xbox.

 

[PGamer]

I was sort of thinking this might deserve it's own thread but I guess probably not huh. Still, super exciting!

Well that's up to you if you want to make a thread. As far as I can tell this isn't much of a step up from what Xenia was already doing so I figured it wasn't worth it.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I look forward to trying this in ten years.

 

[LouisaFerre]

List of every game in history that can run at 60 fps on an emulator but is limited to 30 fps on native hardware:
1.Kingdom Hearts
2. Kingdom Hearts 2

Good luck expecting that a hack will exist some day for any one single game. Might as well plan your future around the expectation that you'll win the lottery.

I always found it funny how a 2005 PS2 Exclusive seems to support 60FPS on PC better than some actual PC ports years later.

 

[Peltz]

Quoted to make fun of you in the future.

Can't wait to read that punchline in the browser of my flying car. (Or just 15 years from now).

 

[Dryk]

It will be interesting to have a working 360 emulator...but not a working Xbox one.

It makes the 360 emulation experience more authentic

 

[TC McQueen]

I always found it funny how a 2005 PS2 Exclusive seems to support 60FPS on PC better than some actual PC ports years later.

They had a better grasp of how to balance FPS and graphical impressiveness, while today's game generally push looking good over playing smoothly.

 

[Tain]

List of every game in history that can run at 60 fps on an emulator but is limited to 30 fps on native hardware:
1.Kingdom Hearts
2. Kingdom Hearts 2

Good luck expecting that a hack will exist some day for any one single game. Might as well plan your future around the expectation that you'll win the lottery.

Aren't there hacks for Smash as well?

 

[shockdude]

Aren't there hacks for Smash as well?

Smash has always been 60FPS on consoles. 120FPS smash?

 

[entremet]

Cave's arcade hardware is much closer to being emulated, actually. Obviously not the higher resolutions versions of the games, though.

And this obviously doesn't apply to Deathsmiles 2, lol.

Cave didn't use Taito's X2 hardware? Or it is custom?

 

[Compsiox]

It makes the 360 emulation experience more authentic

Considering he can barely run 2D games...will we have this in like 2030?

 

[rjc571]

There are a few other games I've discovered since March that can be hacked to run at 60 fps in emulators, such as Banjo-Kazooie. It's still really rare though.

 

[Mhmmm 2077]

Emulation isn't going to allow these games to run at 60 fps.

PCSX2 uses some hack and enhances Kingdom Hearts 2 to run at 60fps instead of 30fps. So it's possible.

edit: I was too lazy to read whole thread, but as you can see, it's possible, even if it's only 2 games.

 

[SonyToo!™]

I'd imagine the slowdown in bullet hell STGs would be all over the place if emulated correct? As someone who plans on keeping my PAL 360 I'd be more interested in someone breaking the 360's region lock without the need of hardware modding.

Hmmm I wonder if the US version of Orta would work on a modded PAL 360?

Cave didn't use Taito's X2 hardware? Or it is custom?

CAVE used their own SH-3 custom boards (CV1000) besides Deathsmiles 2 plus their older games that run well in MAME that run on CAVE 68000 and PGM

CAVE were transitioning over to Nesica with a port of 360's Akia Katana Shin mode before the company pulled out arcade/console STGs and become just another mobile dev

 

[lt519]

I started a thread about this a while ago but I have a problem with last gen consoles being emulated while they are still being produced and sold. This came up a lot with the Wii and people skipping out on buying one because they could just emulate Xenoblade or SMG.

 

[Winterfang]

This early!? Wow :O