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[NinjaBoiX]

So straight out the gate, apologies ahead of time to the community for posting YET ANOTHER Elden Ring thread, but honest question:

Do you think the balance of the bread and butter enemies against the bosses is a bit out of whack this time around?

I’m no Soulsborne vet, I’m pretty bad at all of the games. I’ve beaten then eventually, but I don’t think I’ve even “got gud”, as it were. I don’t have the inside track on the hitboxes or other assorted tips on this particular game, but I can’t be the only one feeling like I’m hitting a slightly harder brick wall than usual when it comes to the bosses in this game?

I don’t know wether it’s a result of the open world nature this time around, maybe I’m doing them in the wrong order or something.

But I’ve never encountered such a discrepancy in difficulty between just making my way around the world whacking monsters over the head with relative ease to then getting utterly steamrolled by the bosses.

Is anyone else finding this? It’s like they’ve made the base game quite a bit easier, only to make the bosses much harder. It’s like they doubled down on the whole “it’s a boss, so they don’t play by the same rules as you” aspect, fully spamming massive life bar draining moves one after another, and brushing off massive attacks from the player as a mere tickle.

I’m now passed the point of giving them a couple of goes solo unless they cheat less than usual, I just summon help and move on from the bullshit to see the rest of the game.

Thoughts?

 

[Captain Toad]

If a boss in Elden Ring feels too hard, go somewhere else. Find loot, find bosses you can kill. After some time, go back and try with your more powerful character.

If you just follow the story path directly, you're going to have a very difficult time - as well as missing the main point of the game (exploration and character building).

 

[SkylineRKR]

Sometimes its a bit off but I think its because of the non linear progression. The Gargoyles were harder and tankier than Fortisax for example. But I think you can skip the Gargoyles? Astel was also much harder than anything in that entire quest, I was clearly underleveled there. I guess the cloister was a good warning of that. But you can save it for later if needed.

What I hate about the bosses is how they ignore stamina and can outright cancel their animations and combos. Pop a flask, and see how they cancel their combo and manage to hit you at the perfect frame. The only way to get around this is to _break_ the AI, go far range and they won't react to your heal.

 

[rofif]

It is really weird.
nicely explained here. 3min he touches on balance

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

 

[Swift_Star]

Yes. It’s all over the place.

 

[TintoConCasera]

No

 

[Pyral Phoenix]

A lot of people seem not to understand this, so jere it goes.

Elden Ring is an open game, it encourages you to just "go someplace else and then return here" mentality.
There's not a boss in game which is not exploitable, but if you just wanna force your way through, you may want to change your strategy.
I've got a friend who literally reached the endgame with Radhan's swords, though they were hitting hard, they weren't doing it for him with Malenia, so he made something I never thoughy of, he infused the greatsword with the bloodhound step and dual weilded it with another great sword.
The guy, in one run, slaughtered the last five bosses first try, no respec or anything, just a change of strategy,
That's the beauty of it, and it's not very clear for a lot, but you need sometimes to change your strategy.
It's not hard, every place, cave, dungeon, boss is a puzzle that you need to solve.

 

[Freeman76]

Never bothered me. Its an open world game of such huge scope where you can go pretty much anywhere you want, there are bound to be little inconsistencies. Picking up on it enough to make an issue out of it seems like nitpicking for the sake of it to me, it doesnt take a genius to recognise there will be issues balancing something like this without direct level-gating (which would completely dettact from the amazingly open approach they crafted here)

 

[Pejo]

Spirit ash summons are a mechanic in the game. Nobody cares if you beat the game with them or without them. If the bosses feel overtuned for solo play, summon an NPC ash. People seem to have such a mental block about using them and I don't get it.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Sometimes its a bit off but I think its because of the non linear progression. The Gargoyles were harder and tankier than Fortisax for example. But I think you can skip the Gargoyles? Astel was also much harder than anything in that entire quest, I was clearly underleveled there. I guess the cloister was a good warning of that. But you can save it for later if needed.

What I hate about the bosses is how they ignore stamina and can outright cancel their animations and combos. Pop a flask, and see how they cancel their combo and manage to hit you at the perfect frame. The only way to get around this is to _break_ the AI, go far range and they won't react to your heal.

Yup, the cheating stamina shit is what stings the most. Play by the rules you impose on the player at least man, FFS!

It is really weird.
nicely explained here. 3min he touches on balance

Yup, this dude has it!

Yup, I summon help at the drop of a hat now, because fuck your cheating ass AI,

No

What does this even mean? Either post something relevant or gtfo of my thread.

Thanks.

A lot of people seem not to understand this, so jere it goes.

Elden Ring is an open game, it encourages you to just "go someplace else and then return here" mentality.
There's not a boss in game which is not exploitable, but if you just wanna force your way through, you may want to change your strategy.
I've got a friend who literally reached the endgame with Radhan's swords, though they were hitting hard, they weren't doing it for him with Malenia, so he made something I never thoughy of, he infused the greatsword with the bloodhound step and dual weilded it with another great sword.
The guy, in one run, slaughtered the last five bosses first try, no respec or anything, just a change of strategy,
That's the beauty of it, and it's not very clear for a lot, but you need sometimes to change your strategy.
It's not hard, every place, cave, dungeon, boss is a puzzle that you need to solve.

Oh yeah, I totally get the “you have options” stance.

But the game straight up cheats regularly, it’s just kind of lame. Especially when they seemed to have the balance so right before.

I think a lot of it is teething problems with their first truly open world game. But still, design your game better than just straight up coding your bosses to ignore the rules for an easy win.

That’s not challenging, that’s cheating.

Spirit ash summons are a mechanic in the game. Nobody cares if you beat the game with them or without them. If the bosses feel overtuned for solo play, summon an NPC ash. People seem to have such a mental block about using them and I don't get it.

Yup, I do that.

But most of the bosses I’m up to just destroy them instantly as if they were level furniture or something.

Seems like a waste of time.

 

[peronmls]

You can cheese almost every boss and there are a lot of check points. It's not rewarding at all.

 

[RoboFu]

It’s like no one has ever played an open world rpg before.

 

[Swift_Star]

Sim

A lot of people seem not to understand this, so jere it goes.

Elden Ring is an open game, it encourages you to just "go someplace else and then return here" mentality.
There's not a boss in game which is not exploitable, but if you just wanna force your way through, you may want to change your strategy.
I've got a friend who literally reached the endgame with Radhan's swords, though they were hitting hard, they weren't doing it for him with Malenia, so he made something I never thoughy of, he infused the greatsword with the bloodhound step and dual weilded it with another great sword.
The guy, in one run, slaughtered the last five bosses first try, no respec or anything, just a change of strategy,
That's the beauty of it, and it's not very clear for a lot, but you need sometimes to change your strategy.
It's not hard, every place, cave, dungeon, boss is a puzzle that you need to solve.

Nah. Boss two/three shotting high vigor characters scream lack of balance and cheap difficulty.
Bosses shouldn’t have endless combo streams that can one shot a 50 vig character.

 

[ckaneo]

Honestly Froms technical limitations become more apparent each game.

The games fights and design are spectacle first, technically sound second. So many cool attacks and moves for your character and enemies but that comes with so many being just busted whether too weak or strong in terms of strength. The boss designs are cool, but the movement and the camera just arent good enough to properly track everything. The open world means that balance is all out of whack. The enemy AI literally cant even handle summoning in a realistic way.

The game isnt graphically anything special, but the art design and spectacle of the world and encounters are top notch and it kinda overshadows everything else. And because of the developer people just brush off criticism as intended design

 

[NinjaBoiX]

It’s like no one has ever played an open world rpg before.

Um, OK?

You can cheese almost every boss and there are a lot of check points. It's not rewarding at all.

Exactly, I don’t know many other franchises with so many exploits to cheese a boss as this one. Again, it’s like open ended design from both sides.

“The boss cheats, but you can too!”

Neither side feels like an actual artistic choice tbh, but some hamfisted design.

“It was easier for us to make the boss hard by allowing them to do things you can’t, and play by a different set of rules.

No, we didn’t notice that you could just spam spells by exploiting that tree branch, but fuck it.”

 

[RoboFu]

Um, OK?



Exactly, I don’t know many other franchises with so many exploits to cheese a boss as this one. Again, it’s like open ended design from both sides.

“The boss cheats, but you can too!”

Neither side feels like an actual artistic choice tbh, but some hamfisted design.

“It was easier for us to make the boss hard by allowing them to do things you can’t, and play by a different set of rules.

No, we didn’t notice that you could just spam spells by exploiting that tree branch, but fuck it.”

Meaning different areas are for different levels and different enemies are weak to different things. It’s nothing new.
If a boss or enemy is super hard then you are either in the wrong area for your level or you are not using the right items/weapons.
Example crystalian bosses need big heavy weapons to break their armor.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I find myself testing each boss to see if they're possible to do without spirit ashes. I then quickly realize the boss is simply too aggressive, has infinite stamina and great mobility, and often times their attacks have lingering effects. They kill me in two or three hits despite great investment in vigor (something I never used to do in previous games). Overall I'm finding less and less windows where I can strike back. That means I'm forced to use a spirit to give myself some breathing.

It's been said before, but the Souls games thrive when it's one on one combat. As soon as you introduce multiple enemies it falls apart. If your bosses are so aggressive that you have to summon spirits, something's wrong with the balance IMO.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Meaning different areas are for different levels and different enemies are weak to different things. It’s nothing new.
If a boss or enemy is super hard then you are either in the wrong area for your level or you are not using the right items/weapons.
Example crystalian bosses need big heavy weapons to break their armor.

Yeah, I understand how open world RPG’s work. I just think this game is poorly balanced, seems like folk either steamroll or are steamrolled. There’s little in between.

 

[SJRB]

Elden Ring is the pinnacle of videogames and anyone saying something even remotely negative about it is wrong, should shut the fuck up, sell their Playstation, throw their shit ass pc in the dumpster and just do something that is less challenging for their fragile minds. You know, like mowing the grass.

How dare you disrespect Miyazaki-sama this way, you swine.

 

[LavosBit]

I don’t think it’s possible to properly balance a game that big with that many variables and near-infinite permutations. It’s probably a small miracle it’s as balanced as it is.

 

[balls of snow]

Sometimes its a bit off but I think its because of the non linear progression. The Gargoyles were harder and tankier than Fortisax for example. But I think you can skip the Gargoyles? Astel was also much harder than anything in that entire quest, I was clearly underleveled there. I guess the cloister was a good warning of that. But you can save it for later if needed.

What I hate about the bosses is how they ignore stamina and can outright cancel their animations and combos. Pop a flask, and see how they cancel their combo and manage to hit you at the perfect frame. The only way to get around this is to _break_ the AI, go far range and they won't react to your heal.

Yeah, the bosses read your controller inputs. On one hand makes them cheap, on the other hand makes them super predictable.

 

[Bragr]

You can cheese almost every boss and there are a lot of check points. It's not rewarding at all.

You want to remove the checkpoints? you liked spending half the game running to the boss in their previous games? I thought everyone hated that nonsense.

 

[March Climber]

Nah. Boss two/three shotting high vigor characters scream lack of balance and cheap difficulty.
Bosses shouldn’t have endless combo streams that can one shot a 50 vig character.

Exactly, and you can tell who in this thread made it to the last 30% of the game and who didn't, because the ones who didn't are unaware of this late game damage spike. The video rofif posted explains it clearly.

 

[Yoboman]

Unbalanced enemies and bosses can be explained away, level up more and come back to the area later. I really haven't had too much difficulty and if I'm struggling I've been able to leverage coop or ashes of war which arguably make it too easy

Its actually the PVP lacking balance. Everyone just running around spamming rivers of blood cause it's so overpowered or one shot sniping with the madness incantation

 

[Valt7786]

Spirit ash summons are a mechanic in the game. Nobody cares if you beat the game with them or without them. If the bosses feel overtuned for solo play, summon an NPC ash. People seem to have such a mental block about using them and I don't get it.

Because they'll watch youtubers or streamers flat out refuse to use them so it...ugh...influences...them not to use them too. Plus the mentality is carried over from the previous games where summoning a player to help was "being a bitch".
All those summons and other options are in the game to help you and put there on purpose, using them does not make you "bad" at it. And *if* it did, who the fuck cares, no one is watching you.

 

[jaysius]

Sim

Nah. Boss two/three shotting high vigor characters scream lack of balance and cheap difficulty.
Bosses shouldn’t have endless combo streams that can one shot a 50 vig character.

Yup, you're 1/3 the way through a 2 phase boss fight and then BAM the boss fucking SURPRISE pulls out a new move that 1 hit or 2 hit(feels like 1 because of stunlock) kills you. THAT IS SO FUN! Especially because some of the windups on those moves are so quick you can't react to them.

From ran out of good ideas for baddies about halfway through, but still had to make a game, they never have any idea how to balance anything.

So many people in videos online win by having massive healthbars and far overlevel the bosses to get it done, OR resort to AI glitching cheese.

It's a shame nobody else makes games like these, this good. I know it's unpopular but The Surge series is far more balanced.

Nioh 1 was great, Nioh 2 was kind of bad because it went too heavy on loot grind.

 

[peronmls]

You want to remove the checkpoints? you liked spending half the game running to the boss in their previous games? I thought everyone hated that nonsense.

People who suck at video games hate it. Don't die a lot and get good at the game or games in general and there wouldn't have to be a nonsense amount of checkpoints.

 

[March Climber]

Yup, you're 1/3 the way through a 2 phase boss fight and then BAM the boss fucking SURPRISE pulls out a new move that 1 hit or 2 hit(feels like 1 because of stunlock) kills you. THAT IS SO FUN! Especially because some of the windups on those moves are so quick you can't react to them.

From ran out of good ideas for baddies about halfway through, but still had to make a game, they never have any idea how to balance anything.

So many people in videos online win by having massive healthbars and far overlevel the bosses to get it done, OR result to AI glitching cheese.

It's a shame nobody else makes games like these, this good. I know it's unpopular but The Surge series is far more balanced.

Nioh 1 was great, Nioh 2 was kind of bad because it went too heavy on loot grind.

It's a two-way issue. The player is also given tons of powerful tools in the last 30% of the game(especially the ones that do blood, ice, and frenzy damage, the goku beam, and late game boss weapons), so essentially it becomes a game of who can cheese who fastest, the player or the enemy mobs/boss. That's why the PvP is not as good as other souls games. It isn't either/or like people make it out to be. The PvE became so incredibly unbalanced that the PvP simply suffered because of it.

 

[Knightime_X]

Difficulty is a bit on the artificial side as certain enemies track you harder than internet cookies. Among other issues like enemy input reading, etc.

The difficulty is all over the place.
Quite literally, but sometimes not in a good way.

The game's gimmick is all about being hard so you'll need to view all flaws as "features".

That's the genre's reputation and one must accept it.

 

[Barakov]

So straight out the gate, apologies ahead of time to the community for posting YET ANOTHER Elden Ring thread, but honest question:

Do you think the balance of the bread and butter enemies against the bosses is a bit out of whack this time around?

I’m no Soulsborne vet, I’m pretty bad at all of the games. I’ve beaten then eventually, but I don’t think I’ve even “got gud”, as it were. I don’t have the inside track on the hitboxes or other assorted tips on this particular game, but I can’t be the only one feeling like I’m hitting a slightly harder brick wall than usual when it comes to the bosses in this game?

I don’t know wether it’s a result of the open world nature this time around, maybe I’m doing them in the wrong order or something.

But I’ve never encountered such a discrepancy in difficulty between just making my way around the world whacking monsters over the head with relative ease to then getting utterly steamrolled by the bosses.

Is anyone else finding this? It’s like they’ve made the base game quite a bit easier, only to make the bosses much harder. It’s like they doubled down on the whole “it’s a boss, so they don’t play by the same rules as you” aspect, fully spamming massive life bar draining moves one after another, and brushing off massive attacks from the player as a mere tickle.

I’m now passed the point of giving them a couple of goes solo unless they cheat less than usual, I just summon help and move on from the bullshit to see the rest of the game.

Thoughts?

As someone who beat the PS4 Pro version and is now playing the PS5 version, I feel this a fair assessment. If you're not playing a mage or doing a bleed build you're definitely in for a harder time with bosses. The best bet is to use spirit ashes or summon other players to get over whatever boss is your next roadblock.

It's the only souls type game where I felt farming souls for a few levels was necessary in a couple of instances. What I really hope is From stops nerfing stuff just to appease pvp people.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Spirit ash summons are a mechanic in the game. Nobody cares if you beat the game with them or without them. If the bosses feel overtuned for solo play, summon an NPC ash. People seem to have such a mental block about using them and I don't get it.

I summon one every boss fight. They usually don't do a lot of damage but are great distractions that let me get a lot of hits in.

 

[Swift_Star]

People who suck at video games hate it. Don't die a lot and get good at the game or games in general and there wouldn't have to be a nonsense amount of checkpoints.

What a terrible complaint making you do the same things over and over to face a boss is bad design.

 

[Bryank75]

Nahhh, it's too easy. They need to be careful about losing rep and start getting accused of pandering to casuals.

Maybe bump up Malenia difficulty a bit.

 

[Swift_Star]

Yup, you're 1/3 the way through a 2 phase boss fight and then BAM the boss fucking SURPRISE pulls out a new move that 1 hit or 2 hit(feels like 1 because of stunlock) kills you. THAT IS SO FUN! Especially because some of the windups on those moves are so quick you can't react to them.

From ran out of good ideas for baddies about halfway through, but still had to make a game, they never have any idea how to balance anything.

So many people in videos online win by having massive healthbars and far overlevel the bosses to get it done, OR resort to AI glitching cheese.

It's a shame nobody else makes games like these, this good. I know it's unpopular but The Surge series is far more balanced.

Nioh 1 was great, Nioh 2 was kind of bad because it went too heavy on loot grind.

What annoys me the most is that the game is clearly tailored towards dex/int. This is the most effective build. Playing with a pure str character is very hard mode. And that already shows how unbalanced the game is.

 

[March Climber]

What a terrible complaint making you do the same things over and over to face a boss is bad design.

I'm alright with re-doing boss fights. That type of design comes from older difficult games like Megaman where you had to learn the boss patterns and weaknesses. One of Elden Ring's few other issues is that they have quite a few important bosses who have a Bloodborne or Sekiro moveset and yet you move like a Dark Souls character with a jump.

It's like trying to beat a Megaman X or Megaman Zero game using the original NES Megaman's moveset. Is it possible? Probably. Maybe. Would anyone want to do things that way though?

 

[jaysius]

What annoys me the most is that the game is clearly tailored towards dex/int. This is the most effective build. Playing with a pure str character is very hard mode. And that already shows how unbalanced the game is.

Yup.

Dex/Faith:

Dex/Int:

 

[SeraphJan]

That's not the problem of Elden Ring, its the problem of free exploration, if the boss is too difficult, maybe you are under leveled for that specific area, come back later

This happens in the original Dark Souls as well, where in my first playthrough back in the xbox360 era I thought you were suppose to go to the catacombs first instead of undead burg (which I haven't discovered yet at that point), and guess how smoothly that went.

Its just that in later Souls game, boss have been significantly improved in terms of move set and new phases, where under leveled might still get you through mob if you are patient, but it might not work for bosses.

 

[Bartski]

If the balance is off it's in favor of the player, not the bosses.

Those are supposed to be challenging but more often than not aren't, due to how easy it is to overpower your character.

 

[rofif]

You can cheese almost every boss and there are a lot of check points. It's not rewarding at all.

Nobody wants to cheese. We are talking about normal day 1 playing with no wiki. No build guides.
I had to change my build few times with respec as it was not working. Same with free affinity changing. It feels added as a patchwork fix for poor balance.
Some builds are just bad so they added ability to easily respec

 

[jaysius]

That's not the problem of Elden Ring, its the problem of free exploration, if the boss is too difficult, maybe you are under leveled for that specific area, come back later

This happens in the original Dark Souls as well, where in my first playthrough back in the xbox360 era I thought you were suppose to go to the catacombs first instead of undead burg (which I haven't discovered yet at that point), and guess how smoothly that went.

Its just that in later Souls game, boss have been significantly improved in terms of move set and new phases, where under leveled might still get you through mob if you are patient, but it might not work for bosses.

If the balance is off it's in favor of the player, not the bosses.

Those are supposed to be challenging but more often than not aren't, due to how easy it is to overpower your character.

People really do drink that "GIT GUD" Kool-Aid so much they don't even realize how into it they are.

Leveling up will NOT nullify the surprise 1-2 hit kills bosses do. These are the issues we're talking about here.

 

[SeraphJan]

People really do drink that "GIT GUD" Kool-Aid so much they don't even realize how into it they are.

Leveling up will NOT nullify the surprise 1-2 hit kills bosses do. These are the issues we're talking about here.

I don't understand why you are quoting my post when clearly you are responding to someone else, when did I ever mentioned Git Gud?

However if you are talking about leveling up, from my experience, having better damage output from both weapon and stats and more resources like items really helped my first blind playthrough back when Bloodborne first came out. So far I don't see how Elden Ring bosses are more difficult compare to Bloodborne (especially the DLC ones like Orphan of Kos)

The only Souls game that leveling does not work would has to be Sekiro, but Elden Ring is nothing like Sekiro.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Yes but its still fun because all of the bosses are still beatable. All the bosses on the story path aren't that hard. Some of the side bosses are bullshit but its part of the fun.

 

[Punished Miku]

I don’t think it’s possible to properly balance a game that big with that many variables and near-infinite permutations. It’s probably a small miracle it’s as balanced as it is.

Ridiculous. Nioh 2 has a lot more weapons, and each weapon has 3 stances and a dozen weapon skills with multiple ones equipped simultaneously instead of just 1. Souls actually has a very low level of variables. Melee weapons have very limited command lists with usually like 1 combo per weapon. Spells are not that difficult to balance. Look at Dragons Dogma.

 

[Moonjt9]

Whole lot of people who need to git gud in this thread.

Here’s a tip: take off the soreseal talismans. There’s a reason you get one or two shot and it’s not the balance of the game.

 

[SeraphJan]

Ridiculous. Nioh 2 has a lot more weapons, and each weapon has 3 stances and a dozen weapon skills with multiple ones equipped simultaneously instead of just 1. Souls actually has a very low level of variables. Melee weapons have very limited command lists with usually like 1 combo per weapon. Spells are not that difficult to balance. Look at Dragons Dogma.

When we talking about combat alone, I've never played a single game having better melee combat than Nioh series, not even their own Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I guess the people who are bad at Souls games are finally reaching the endgame boss rush

 

[BadBurger]

It is really weird.
nicely explained here. 3min he touches on balance

Damn, Dunk was spot on there

 

[Bragr]

People who suck at video games hate it. Don't die a lot and get good at the game or games in general and there wouldn't have to be a nonsense amount of checkpoints.

Let me find you a 90's game with no checkpoints that will kill yo ass 100 times in the first level and then try to repeat this absolute horseshit argumentation. I don't give a shit if you have to run one time, it's complete nonsense and a waste of time, no matter if you are good or not. Do you want save files removed too?

 

[SatansReverence]

Another Elden Ring thread with the same bads who complain that the game is literally impossible without X/Y when there are countless people who don't touch that shit and aren't having problems.

If you think you need dex/int you are just bad at the game. Simple.

It's time you stop blaming the game for you being bad and *ahem* git fuckin gud.

As for the "balance", it's pretty standard for overworld enemies to be significantly weaker than bosses. Elden Ring, like other souls games, still has significantly stronger overworld enemies and doesn't let you straight up potato your way through them. It's not uncommon to get shit mixed by standard enemies if you decide to fuck around.