Zack Snyder's Justice League |OT| Tell Me...Do You Still Bleed?

KingMob55 said:
I agree with first part, but I actually would like to see Ayer's Suicide Squad. I don't expect it to convince me the film is great, but it's fascinating getting to see these unreleased versions. I didn't expect to love ZSJL and I do, so I'd be down to give SS a chance. The initial trailer really is cool.
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the thing with the trailers being cool is that the same trailer house company did the final edit on the movie. The execs saw the reaction to that trailer and said to themselves, lets have a trailer house stitch together the movie and we all know how that turned out lol. a fucking abomination.

that said, I would also like to see the Ayes cut. Cutting out joke and harley stuff is insane seeing as how both were THE reason to go see the movie. They cut way too much just like Whedon did with JL. It should definitely be released, but since there is no real demand for it, WB execs will save face than show what is arguably the more coherent if not straight up better cut.

For the record, i liked suicide squad. I didnt think it was that bad. I thought Margot Robbie and Will Smith were fantastic, and i knew there was a good movie hidden in there because at least half of the movie was pretty damn solid. Lots of great scenes in there that were let down by some pretty shit scenes. (the other half of the movie)
 
ManaByte said:
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I honestly thought it was used very well when it first revealed Wonder Woman in the film when she was standing on that statue. It added to the weight of the moment imo. Made her come off as more of a force. But after that, hoo boy. I think ultimately it would've been fine if it were used a lot more sparingly.
 
MastaKiiLA said:
Pretty sure he skipped leg days, and went for show muscles, but yes, his upper body was well-built. This was made more apparent in the Manhunter epilogue, where it looked like Bruce went on a hunger strike.
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That scene was filmed a few months ago. He probably hit Dunkin Donuts both on the way to the set and the way home.
 
It was pretty good IMO. Yea it was long and couldn't been cut down but definitely did some better character building aside from maybe Aquaman.

They could have maybe just released as 2 movies but with streaming you can just take breaks at the middle anyway. I would definitely be interested if they continued this timeline.
 
2BloBKH.jpg
 
collider.com

The Snyder Cut Makes the Atlanteans Speak Like Whales, Completely Changing How I Watch 'Aquaman'

One minor detail in Zack Snyder's Justice League completely changes the events of Aquaman in an accidentally hilarious way.
collider.com collider.com

If you've never seen it, it may surprise you to learn that a significant portion of Aquaman takes place underwater. The 2018 masterpiece pits Arthur Curry against his shitty half-brother Orm in a war for the throne of Atlantis, which includes a truly bodacious gladiatorial match between the two waged in a deep-sea arena and accompanied by the thrumming rhythms of a drumming octopus. At one point in the fight, Orm pummels Arthur into a daze and begins roaring triumphantly to the crowd like he just bullied Arthur off of the Nintendo 64 so he and his friends can play Mario Kart. We hear it as Patrick Wilson shouting a wordless cry of victory, because Atlanteans just speak English to each other in Wan's version of this universe. But imagine, if you will, that the rules established in Zack Snyder's Justice League had been carried over to this film, as was the original plan. That means Orm would be bellowing full-throated dolphins sounds to his subjects while spreading his arms like an evangelical preacher.
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The opening scene, in which Orm and fellow sea king Nereus (Lundgren) negotiate a truce after being attacked by a nuclear submarine, would be a peace summit conducted entirely by whale moans. And believe me when I say that I want nothing more than to watch the perpetually scowling Lundgren fix Orm with a steely gaze before chirping out some bullshit in Lobsterese. Aquaman ends with a sweeping undersea battle between the Crab Army and Orm's coalition of mermaids and water elves. Basically, it's a sea monster gang fight, and Wan's film presents it with the same kinds of battlefield sounds you'd expect to hear in Saving Private Ryan or Braveheart. However, in the SnyderVerse canon, this epic sequence would sound like a pod of dolphins at a monster truck rally. And the tense scene in which Arthur convinces the mythical Karathen to relinquish the Trident of Atlan would be like listening to two manatees fight over a trash barge.
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I'm not saying you can't make a serious movie in which half of the cast speaks exclusively in squid burps. Nor am I accusing Aquaman of being a serious movie. (Indeed, I would never even dare to speak those words aloud.) But the fact that Zack Snyder's Justice League attempted to saddle the rest of the DCEU with Atlanteans who can only speak in whistles is a flex so incredible that it could've only come from the mind of the man who also decided to begin the very first Justice League movie in cinema history by killing off Superman. It's a troll of Kryptonian proportions, and although Wan immediately and correctly did away with Snyder's sweaty air bubble device, I will forever imagine the actors making whale hoots at each other in place of dialogue every time I rewatch Aquaman, which will constitute hundreds if not thousands of viewings until I finally die.
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ManaByte said:
collider.com

The Snyder Cut Makes the Atlanteans Speak Like Whales, Completely Changing How I Watch 'Aquaman'

One minor detail in Zack Snyder's Justice League completely changes the events of Aquaman in an accidentally hilarious way.
collider.com collider.com
Click to expand...
I can see why they made the change. It would be pretty tough to make a compelling movie where they need to create air pockets every time they want to include dialogue and exposition. At the same time, the idea that Atlanteans can casually hold conversations underwater using their speaking voices is even more retarded than the idea of a race of mermen and I don't blame Snyder for going the route he did in his movie.
 
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OK, 4 hours of my life gone - survived the Snyder Cut. Let's do this.


Positives
  1. Yes, it's a much better version overall. The tone is consistent, there's better justification for actions and the story does seem less goofy - clearly having more runtime helps as well as not changing directors and forcing a different vision on existing material.
  2. Excellent visuals and action. As always, Zack Snyder has an eye for a great shot and lighting and everything so it looks phenomenal. The fight scenes have weight to them and have excellent wow moments in them. Most of the action is easy to understand and follow, no quick-cuts.
  3. Good participation of all JL members - compared to the original cut, even Batman had important things to do despite being underpowered and it felt like everyone was involved. Wonder Woman got the best action that we haven't seen in her own movies and Cybork with Aquaman also got some nice shots. Yes Stuperman still saved the day but it felt like they could almost do it without him which was nice. It felt like Zach did care for these characters.

Negatives
It is a polished turd is still a turn underneath and despite all the cool stuff that would please certain audiences the core of this movie is rotten.

Not Zach's fault:
  • Clearly not having an establishing movie for each character before doing BvS and Justice League is a terrible idea. Yes, everyone knows who Batman or who Flash is, but when you're introduced to Batfleck - apart from surface-level knowledge, this is for all intents and purposes a new character. It's not Nolan Batman, not Burton Batman - we know nothing of him and to boot, this Batman kills people. No wonder the audience is confused. In Justice League we get Cyborg and Barry Allen and despite a lot of characterisation especially for Cyborg - clearly it's not enough. This movie is 4 hours long and Cyborg literally has to lose mom, dad, get powers to nuke the whole world and immediately decide to team up and use it for good. It's super -think and studio-mandated.
Zach's faults:

  • Slow-Mo. A lot of scenes in this movie look good because of slow-mo. I get it, it's how Zach sees things - he likes to shoot a pretty shot and stay on it to wow the audience. It's comic book effect, a single perfect shot. But when you slow-mo everything including some random terrorist reloading a gun or Aquaman going underwater the effect just loses its potency. Moreover it makes great shots but movie is more than just cool imagery - dialogue, scenes, pacing are all important. The fact is - this movie could've probably been like 30 minutes shorter if the slow-mo was sped up and most fight scenes would look more visceral if it were toned down. Keep this shit for Flash and for real important showcases or Wonder Woman impact punch effect, the Flash running for the Motherbox to resuscitate Superman doesn't need to take 5 minutes.
  • Story. Zack Snyder is certainly ambitious. In fact his greatest boon and his greatest issue is ambition and lack of restraint. Slow-mo is a very easy way of seeing that but mostly it comes in his story, the art - everything. He has a vision, a big strong vision and he executes it. Some people find it good, but honestly - mostly he cannot write a cohesive good story. His arguably best work is the adaptation of Watchmen - a pre-written story. Like Game of Thrones showrunners the guy can shoot a movie, but he needs better writers or someone to restrain his grander vision. Here we have everything: Darkseid, Steppenwolf, motherboxes. Nothing is properly explained, a lot of things are handwaved and don't get me started on character motivations and plotting. This is a movie where US Army is studying a Ktyptonian ship and a Motherbox yet the body of Superman - an inderstructible superhuman being that nations would wage war for to obtain - is buried in a cemetery where anyone can just dig it up with a shovel. I don't think I need to say more about the consistency of this whole thing.
  • Characters: so people say Batfleck is so cool - and he is - visually he looks cool and he fights well and has nifty toys. He gathers the team and is the wise voice of leadership. Oh wait, no, he's a dumbass and every line of dialogue that he says is so cheesy I can't believe someone with a brain wrote it. Let's forget about him doing a 180 on Superman cause of Martha but go watch the movie and pay attention to all the Bat-talk. It's cringe, full of baseless one-liners, bad pep-talk and terrible plans without any justification on how anything should work out apart from feeling, faith and we have to do it this way. By the end of endless bad lines coming out of poor Affleck's mouth,I laughed when Cyborg fixed the Batplane and said that she wanted to fly (referencing a previous scene where he senses a plane wanting to fly as Cyborg can talk to sentient machines - which is not great writing either) to which Batman turns to him and says with music swelling: so can you. What the fuck is this shit? Cyborg already flown before, there's no context, why are you saying dumb motivational shit right now? How about: "Good Job!"? So Batman is wasted, let's talk Alfred - his great idea is that Batman is crazy to assemble the team and shouldn't do it. In fact, Alfred is actively sabotaging Batman for 80% of the movie - what a nice change from Michael Caine, thank God nobody listens to that prick. I guess he makes good weapons though? Oh and Flash is a creep, like I get that he is comic-relief but Goddamn - just no.

Let's just talk for a bit about father figures in this universe. What kind of father did Zach have to write them this way? They are all giving terrible advice and telling their children to be selfish and just take whatever they can, not help anyone etc. There's a fine line between saying: you can be whatever you want and "The whole world's nuclear arsenal is at your command". The first one is inspiring and empowering, the second one is fucking ominous and makes you think that this is going to bad places. Oh and it is also the first thing that Cyborg - a recently reborn superhuman machine who is angry, brooding and unstable hears from his dad's recording. The part about restraint and love comes at the end cause it's less important I guess and he doesn't hear it until the end of the movie. Jeez, thank God he decided that he's going to be the good guy cause I'm not sure whether the Justice League would wanna deal with the whole Cyborg-went-mad nuke crisis. Flash's dad doesn't want his son to pursue an education. Superman's dad is a prick as well. Alfred gives shit advice all the time. Fucks' sake how do these guys actually end up all being good-doers with influences like this?

I mean there are other things we can talk about but the key here is that this movie is clearly what Zach wanted it to be and while it's suitably epic and evokes at least some emotion, ultimately it is a failed vision - full of bad plots littered with plot holes and contrivances, full of characters who look cool but are not engaging or worthy of support, full of bad cliche dialogue that falls apart once you spend a second thinking about it. Yes, at least it was a vision - single, pointed and cohesive in its own way - and that's worth celebrating. But I can't help but think that it is unfortunate that such good casting, great visuals and action are wasted on a bad story and characters that will now need to be rebooted or recast. This movie ultimately still upholds my belief that Zach is very competent at shooting a movie and action scenes but he's terrible at directing the whole thing. He needs a writer, editor - someone with restraint who can focus his ideas. When you have some of that you get Watchmen, if not you get MoS, BvS and SuckerPunch. Let Zach do the visuals - don't let him do the rest.

Now to watch Half in the Bag.
 
Hatemachine said:
I can see why they made the change. It would be pretty tough to make a compelling movie where they need to create air pockets every time they want to include dialogue and exposition. At the same time, the idea that Atlanteans can casually hold conversations underwater using their speaking voices is even more retarded than the idea of a race of mermen and I don't blame Snyder for going the route he did in his movie.
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I personally don't think that the fact that Atlantean's speak under water in the Aquaman movie makes it a "separate" continuity from the Snyder cut. You could easily just say that the movie "translates" what they say to English for us land dwellers. Movies and TV shows have done this before where a scene will start off in a foreign language and then change to English mid scene for the noobs that hate sub titles.
 
sol_bad said:
I personally don't think that the fact that Atlantean's speak under water in the Aquaman movie makes it a "separate" continuity from the Snyder cut. You could easily just say that the movie "translates" what they say to English for us land dwellers. Movies and TV shows have done this before where a scene will start off in a foreign language and then change to English mid scene for the noobs that hate sub titles.
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True. In any event, literally nobody would give a shit if somehow Justice League 2 did get made and they retconned the Atlanteans based on how they're portrayed in the movies.
 
screenrant.com

New Justice League Viewing Figures: Only 1/3rd Finished Snyder Cut

Those figures aren't as good as they seem.
screenrant.com screenrant.com

1.8 million households watched Zack Snyder's Justice League in its opening weekend in the US - but only one-third of those viewers finished the film.
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In an interview with Sylabdul Inc., Samba TV's director Jeffrey Silverman explained that Samba TV count a viewer as someone who has watched over five minutes of a film or TV show. That's much more precise than some rival analytics firms, who frequently count a view if a person tuned in to just one minute, but in the context of a mammoth four-hour movie, it's not much of an indicator. When Samba TV checked the completion rate for the Snyder Cut - that is to say, the proportion of those 1.8 million households who finished the film - they found only 1/3 of households watched all four hours.
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ManaByte said:
screenrant.com

New Justice League Viewing Figures: Only 1/3rd Finished Snyder Cut

Those figures aren't as good as they seem.
screenrant.com screenrant.com
Click to expand...

Yeah I think this is all pretty much the nail in the coffin for any hope for the Snyderverse to be restored. Personally I wish we could've gotten JL2&3, but at the same time I understand. I respect Zack for being bold and having his vision, but at the same time his vision cost WB a lot of potential money, and did major damage to the DC brand and image. Though I also think WB share a lot of blame too. It's very clear these past 5 years that Warner Bros don't know how to manage a cinematic universe.

It was absolutely shocking that Batman v Superman couldn't crack $800 million world wide. That film should've been an easy billion. But not only was it a miserable nightmare, but the fact that they allowed Zack to cram in Wonder Woman, Justice League Cameos, omens of Injustice, and The Death of Superman, really shows how clueless WB is. The simple concept of Batman and Superman being in the same film for the first time, was alone enough to almost guarantee big box office success.
 
Madflavor said:
It was absolutely shocking that Batman v Superman couldn't crack $800 million world wide. That film should've been an easy billion. But not only was it a miserable nightmare, but the fact that they allowed Zack to cram in Wonder Woman, Justice League Cameos, omens of Injustice, and The Death of Superman, really shows how clueless WB is. The simple concept of Batman and Superman being in the same film for the first time, was alone enough to almost guarantee big box office success.
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Meanwhile Godzilla vs Kong is projected to be the biggest box-office hit in the pandemic.
 
ManaByte said:
Meanwhile Godzilla vs Kong is projected to be the biggest box-office hit in the pandemic.
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I hope it does well, really really well. If Cinemas and the movie going experience are going to survive, we gotta start somewhere. I would think that big $200-300 million blockbuster movies would become a thing of the past if theaters can't make a comeback once the pandemic winds down.
 
Does anybody know what actor Snyder had play John Stewart as Green Lantern before the studio made him take it out and replace it with Martian Manhunter?
 
Big shame that the Snyder cut has seemingly failed on HBO Max. That's 70 million dollars down the drain for them.
:(
 
Ulysses 31 said:
Can't tell if you overall liked the movie despite its flaws or not. :lollipop_confounded:
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I liked it but not sure if I enjoyed it post-factum. A lot of goodwill and positivity comes from the contrast with the butchered WB-exec version as well as a runtime that clearly always leads to more interesting developments being included. There is no clean watching of this. It's a nice project - maybe Zach's grand plans are actually more suited to short series than a feature movie. It shows that he's not a complete hack, just a flawed filmmaker with a great eye for visual.
 
ManaByte said:
screenrant.com

New Justice League Viewing Figures: Only 1/3rd Finished Snyder Cut

Those figures aren't as good as they seem.
screenrant.com screenrant.com
Click to expand...

Clickbait bullshit

It's worth noting this doesn't necessarily mean two-thirds of viewers who turned on the Snyder Cut decided to switch it off partway through. Many households have opted to watch Zack Snyder's Justice League in installments, splitting it up into two or three segments, or perhaps even watching one of the six chapters at a time.
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Btw what does "finish" mean? The movie is 3 hours 53 mins, the rest is end credits, if I closed it after that does it mean I didn't finish it?
 
Mahadev said:
Clickbait bullshit



Btw what does "finish" mean? The movie is 3 hours 53 mins, the rest is end credits, if I closed it after that does it mean I didn't finish it?
Click to expand...

It's a pointless metric without a break down of when people switched off... and whether they came back again within a set period of time.

Say, if 75% of people stopped watching before one hour had elapsed, and hadn't returned within two weeks: that's a disaster. But if 75% watched over three hours at once, and returned to watch the rest within two weeks, that's fine.
 
sobaka770 said:
Story. Zack Snyder is certainly ambitious. In fact his greatest boon and his greatest issue is ambition and lack of restraint. Slow-mo is a very easy way of seeing that but mostly it comes in his story, the art - everything. He has a vision, a big strong vision and he executes it. Some people find it good, but honestly - mostly he cannot write a cohesive good story. His arguably best work is the adaptation of Watchmen - a pre-written story. Like Game of Thrones showrunners the guy can shoot a movie, but he needs better writers or someone to restrain his grander vision. Here we have everything: Darkseid, Steppenwolf, motherboxes. Nothing is properly explained, a lot of things are handwaved and don't get me started on character motivations and plotting. This is a movie where US Army is studying a Ktyptonian ship and a Motherbox yet the body of Superman - an inderstructible superhuman being that nations would wage war for to obtain - is buried in a cemetery where anyone can just dig it up with a shovel. I don't think I need to say more about the consistency of this whole thing.
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This shit again...Snyder is not the writer of the movie, Chris Terrio wrote the screenplay based on a story developed by Snyder, Terrio and Will Beall. And the part with Supermans body was explained in BvS I think. Fake body in Metropolis and Clark Kent is buried in Kansas.
 
Barry: "Remember when the motherboxes synchronized and vaporized all of you and I ran so fast I reversed time to save the world?"

Rest of the Justice League: "lol shut the fuck up Barry, no way that happened"
 
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Suicide Squad trailer dropping tomorrow. Twitter thinks it's an attempt to draw attention away from ZSJL and the continuing demands to #RestoreTheSnyderVerse. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
So apparently #RestoreTheSnyderverse is trending with 1.1m tweets. Unless I'm mistaken I think the highest #ReleaseTheSnyderCut got to was 700k.
 
So theres scary theory surrounding how Superman finds the group in Knightmare scene is because...

Superman overheard Joker mocking Lois death with his superhearing when he talks to Batman
 
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Hatemachine said:
Suicide Squad trailer dropping tomorrow. Twitter thinks it's an attempt to draw attention away from ZSJL and the continuing demands to #RestoreTheSnyderVerse. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised.
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It was always the plan to release it this week online because it'll play in US theaters on Wednesday with Godzilla vs Kong.
 
ManaByte said:
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Aww I liked her theme music bits whenever they were playing especially when the lamentations part would transition into her actual theme music. Didn't even realize how frequent it was until this youtube video.

To me her theme is easily the second most iconic theme out of any comic book movie of the past decade minus the Avengers theme. Maybe that really is just me I dunno.
 
Goro Majima said:
Aww I liked her theme music bits whenever they were playing especially when the lamentations part would transition into her actual theme music. Didn't even realize how frequent it was until this youtube video.

To me her theme is easily the second most iconic theme out of any comic book movie of the past decade minus the Avengers theme. Maybe that really is just me I dunno.
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Doesn't seem overdone at all to me considering it's a 4 hour movie. Going by some of the reddit comments you would think it was playing every 30 seconds. I thought it was really bad ass and really well done.
 
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Airbus Jr said:
So theres scary theory surrounding how Superman finds the group in Knightmare scene is because...

Superman overheard Joker mocking Lois death with his superhearing when he talks to Batman
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You know this is actually the thing that "bothers" me the most about that sequence - I know it's nitpicky but wouldn't Superman just straight up find them in a matter of minutes anyway?

I mean unless they're hiding in a lead-walled room or something there's literally no place to hide. What was their plan, walking around out in the open like that? Surely Batman should know better than that.
 
SJRB said:
You know this is actually the thing that "bothers" me the most about that sequence - I know it's nitpicky but wouldn't Superman just straight up find them in a matter of minutes anyway?

I mean unless they're hiding in a lead-walled room or something there's literally no place to hide. What was their plan, walking around out in the open like that? Surely Batman should know better than that.
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Yeah, I don't really buy the superman heard the Joker bit either, seems to me they were hanging around in the open for too long and Superman noticed them. As for their plan, seems like they were planning to blow something up with the help of Joker, who knows the location of a stash of Kryptonite somewhere.
 
I really felt sorry for Steppenwolf.

The character animation really pulled of the emotion. I think it was the eyes. He was really desperate to succeed.
 
I like the first half and the struggle against Steppenwolf, once Superman steps onto the scene the movie just gets less interesting. But still a great package overall, fucking long epilogue though.

Felt sorry for Cyborg and the Flash had some good scenes, Aquaman had some core moments but he already had his solo movie that was very good. Didn't like Aquaman in this film though don't like the gruff dickhead attitude he had. Absolutely ADORE that iconic chanting whenever Wonder Woman did something, every time without fail did it get me hyped.

New Jared Leto Joker is great by the way, not afraid to admit I'm a fan. The subtlety of him being shook over the Harley Quinn line was just a great moment. Whether we get more or not may be something to lament but the film is a triumph regardless for the fans.

It gets the pass but JJ DC I may just pass on, dude makes lame ass movies, while Snyder is a bit hit or miss at least he has a true passion and isn't "I WANNA BE 10 YEARS OLD AGAIN."
 
Watched it yesterday and overall it was awesome. Not perfect, but no movies is. Biggest issue? Ezra Miller is the male Fran Drescher. So annoying.
 
Madflavor said:
Yeah I think this is all pretty much the nail in the coffin for any hope for the Snyderverse to be restored. Personally I wish we could've gotten JL2&3, but at the same time I understand. I respect Zack for being bold and having his vision, but at the same time his vision cost WB a lot of potential money, and did major damage to the DC brand and image. Though I also think WB share a lot of blame too. It's very clear these past 5 years that Warner Bros don't know how to manage a cinematic universe.

It was absolutely shocking that Batman v Superman couldn't crack $800 million world wide. That film should've been an easy billion. But not only was it a miserable nightmare, but the fact that they allowed Zack to cram in Wonder Woman, Justice League Cameos, omens of Injustice, and The Death of Superman, really shows how clueless WB is. The simple concept of Batman and Superman being in the same film for the first time, was alone enough to almost guarantee big box office success.
Click to expand...

The big problem was Warner demanding their own avengers but not wanting to do the actual buildup. I still can't believe they went batshit when MoS didn't make a billion even though the previous Supes film was a critical disaster.
If the current mood was the mood back when Batman begins came out and didn't crack half a billion, we never would have gotten The Dark Knight.

ultimately, I don't understand why WB wanted to rush the team up so bad instead of earning the team up.
 
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