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[James Sawyer Ford]

The SP looks noticeably sharper than MP on my U3011.

When I say sharpness, I mean the resolution. I can tell a difference between a 720p game and KZ:SF MP.

The image quality is worse in MP -- much more aliasing, and dithering artifacts, but it still looks 1080p....which is sort of what it's doing every two frames.

Like I said, given what we know, I don't think the thread title is all that accurate.

 

[ArchedThunder]

So every game on the xbone is "native" 1080p than because by the time the image reaches the screen, it's displaying 1920x1080 pixels per frame?

It's quite poor form that the devs and sony lied about the resolution. It's like Crytek claiming their internal upscaling meant Ryse was "native 1080p" but at least they were up front about the internal rendering resolution.

Uh, no. Xbox One games UPSCALE to 1920x1080, KZSF doesn't.

 

[Ryu751]

Just shows 1080p is not a big deal at all. If the lower resolution was that noticeable this would have been figured out the day after release. 60 to 30 frame rate is noticeable instantly. 1080p to 720p ain't shit.

 

[Makai]

Interlacing is back? :|

Only on a different axis now.

 

[Liabe Brave]

"Reprojection" in this case means they're likely shifting the positions of things based on a motion buffer, so that the content from the previous frame lines up better when placed alongside pixels from the current field. The most naive form of reprojection would indeed be to just repeat the pixels, which as you note would create more combing artifacts than we see.

"Blending" sounds more like combining the new pixels with ones from the previous frame, which is what you do with temporal "supersampling." (To combine the ideas, developers messing around with TAA will reproject the pixels from the previous frame onto the new one, and then blend them in.)

Okay, all that makes sense. Motion buffer displacement for the interpolated pixels would certainly cut down on combing, and it could also explain the speckled haloes like this:

That would be motion buffer artifacts from weapon sway animation.

 

[dragonelite]

Time to redefine what 1080p means here on neogaf?
Given how scaling, blackbars and now interlaces is seen as cheating?

 

[G_Berry]

How is something like this just now coming to light with so much attention being given to resolution this generation?

It's not on Xbox?

 

[JaxJag]

It's not on Xbox?

You hit the P right on the head.

 

[UnObtainium17]

I just read OP . The way I understood it sounds like how 1080i works but this one is alternating on the vertical lines. Taking this long to get noticed probably means GG did a great job with it.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

The daft thing is, if they got rid of a lot of uneeddd effects they could of hit it. The over the top foilage and lighting just did my head in, maybe I want good solid maps of the halo 1-2 vareity, rem the days of good clean maps? Fuck effects they ruin a good thing.
Only people who will attempt this though are indys, aaa are terrified at the prospect of there games looking bland.

Ahh unreal how I miss you, same goes for you halo ce with the likes of wizard.

 

[fse]

How on earth did no one notice this until now?

Too busy making fun of Xbox One games not being 1080p?

nah couldn't be...

 

[VanWinkle]

It's not on Xbox?

Is resolution on PS4 games not discussed here? Is there an XB1 game that had a developer-confirmed native resolution that people started scrutinizing, believe them to be lying?

 

[SatansReverence]

Uh, no. Xbox One games UPSCALE to 1920x1080, KZSF doesn't.

It's still rendering half the frame and approximating the rest.

It's no more "native" than upscaling so to claim this sideways 1080i is "native" 1080p is to call normal upscaling "native" 1080p

And as for the screens shown earlier in this thread, those artifacts are obvious and quite disgusting to look at. I'm surprised it's taken people this long to realise the image was being interlaced.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I always thought the game looked strangely blurry in multiplayer and never really liked how it felt in multiplayer.

Its basically like an interlaced vertical resolution and a progressive horizontal one, then.

 

[No Love]

Not even full 1080p and it still looks better than full 1080p resolution games.

Multiplayer in this is gorgeous, Guerrilla are truly wizards when it comes to extracting amazing graphics out of low-powered hardware. Can't wait to see their next game.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Interlacing is back? :|

Only on a different axis now.

No, not at all. This is not interlacing, and it's not upscaling. This is something entirely new, probably not used by any previous game. (Similar techniques have been, but evidently never for this purpose.)

Time to redefine what 1080p means here on neogaf?
Given how scaling, blackbars and now interlaces is seen as cheating?

No need for new definitions if people just use the old ones correctly. All games using these techniques can be "1080p". None of them are "native 1080p". They would be "upscaled 1080p", "native 2.4 AR in a 1080p frame", and "960x1080 temporally reprojected to 1080p", respectively.

Only people's urge to jargonize everything makes this difficult.

 

[ArchedThunder]

It's still rendering half the frame and approximating the rest.

It's no more "native" than upscaling so to claim this sideways 1080i is "native" 1080p is to call normal upscaling "native" 1080p

And as for the screens shown earlier in this thread, those artifacts are obvious and quite disgusting to look at. I'm surprised it's taken people this long to realise the image was being interlaced.

I think you should take a look at my explanation that has been put in the OP, I don't think you understand.
As for the artifacting it doesn't look like that in motion, it instead looks more like a weird blur.

 

[Ryu751]

Did GG seriously lie about the mp being native 1080p? That is a very shitty thing to do. Especially considering this was a launch title for a brand new gaming console. People went out of their way to spend a lot of money to play this game and they were being lied to all this time. smh

What this is a serious thought. People are ripped off for missing out on a few pixels. Never change GAF. Let's sue next and then complain about games being too expensive, and great creators leaving.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I also REALLY hope this doesn't become a standard for ps4 titles because it might be less noticeable on a big hdtv from 6-8 feet away, but on a 24inch monitor from a 12-18 inches away it is very hard to focus on and creates a very unsettling effect.

If they wanted 60fps they should have just lowered the resolution.

 

[AlStrong]

so... the parallax frame buffer only renders FXAA when Tessellation is shown in 1080 lines while the Textures only render at half the current resolution at 60 frames versus 30 frames as long as Blast Processing is enabled?

wat

 

[GamingIsDead]

Just shows 1080p is not a big deal at all. If the lower resolution was that noticeable this would have been figured out the day after release. 60 to 30 frame rate is noticeable instantly. 1080p to 720p ain't shit.

It was noticeable, many have said so after release however most thought it was crappy post AA filter ruining the IQ.

Love it when people form wrong conclusions when everything around them is saying otherwise.

 

[RVinP]

I see this;
.single player - 1920x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at unlocked Frame rate/30FPS
.multiplayer - 960x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at 50FPS

If single player mode cannot run smoothly at 1920x1080 pixels with some amount of scripted events, I don't see how multiplayer mode can run smoother than single player mode.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I just read OP . The way I understood it sounds like how 1080i works but this one is alternating on the vertical lines.

It's no more "native" than upscaling so to claim this sideways 1080i is "native" 1080p is to call normal upscaling "native" 1080p...I'm surprised it's taken people this long to realise the image was being interlaced.

Its basically like an interlaced vertical resolution and a progressive horizontal one, then.

No, this is not interlacing, vertical or otherwise. Interlacing sends half the pixels of a full frame to the display, then the other half, and so on. Killzone sends all pixels at once; it is progressive.

Nor is interlacing taking place internally before output, since that would mean a static set of pixels would be used twice in succeeding frames. Instead, it seems pixels previously rendered are individually displaced to their (approximately) correct future positions in the following frame.

 

[RedAssedApe]

all of this going over my head. i think i'm done with this thread...head hurts lol

 

[maneil99]

I see this;
.single player - 1920x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at unlocked Frame rate/30FPS
.multiplayer - 960x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at 50FPS

If single player mode cannot run smoothly at 1920x1080 pixels with some amount of scripted events, I don't see how multiplayer mode can run smoother than single player mode.

Fxaa vs whatever they did in SP + bigger levels + AI

 

[pretty done]

I see this;
.single player - 1920x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at unlocked Frame rate/30FPS
.multiplayer - 960x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at 50FPS

If single player mode cannot run smoothly at 1920x1080 pixels with some amount of scripted events, I don't see how multiplayer mode can run smoother than single player mode.

well it's been stated multiple times in this thread that it doesn't. KZSF MP runs at a really wild framerate that goes from the 20s to 60

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I see this;
.single player - 1920x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at unlocked Frame rate/30FPS
.multiplayer - 960x1080 pixel resolution (per screen update) at 50FPS

If single player mode cannot run smoothly at 1920x1080 pixels with some amount of scripted events, I don't see how multiplayer mode can run smoother than single player mode.

The SP runs above 30fps which is why they bring out a patch to lock it at 30fps @1080p .
The MP fps run all over the place depending on player count etc etc etc .

 

[Averon]

Just shows 1080p is not a big deal at all. If the lower resolution was that noticeable this would have been figured out the day after release. 60 to 30 frame rate is noticeable instantly. 1080p to 720p ain't shit.

I admit I used to entertain this notion. But then I saw the comparison videos Kojima made of Ground Zeroes in 720p and 1080p. The difference was stark. Really woke me up that, yes, the difference between 720p and 1080p is significant.

 

[Chinner]

the multiplayer is noticably poorer in visuals compared to the single player. i guess this is one of the reasons why! why did it take so long for this to come out???

 

[vazel]

all of this going over my head. i think i'm done with this thread...head hurts lol

I'm still confused about how Lair on the PS3 increased its resolution from 800x1080 to 1600x1080 by using the AA buffers or something like that. And now we have another similar case but with interlacing this time.

 

[Anteater]

as long as it still gives the feel of 1080p

but in seriousness I think they made the right decision with the framerate, though I thought they would've dropped other graphical quality settings than the resolution

I've never really played a game in interlace at 1080 though, don't have killzone and curious how it looks

 

[Ryu751]

It was noticeable, many have said so after release however most thought i was crappy post AA filter ruining the IQ.

Love it when people form wrong conclusions when everything around them is saying otherwise.

You may be right I never read the multiplayer thread. That said I want the proof. Show me one post were someone claimed the resolution was a lie. If the loss was that big a deal people would have been all over that shit.

 

[TUROK]

I think you should take a look at my explanation that has been put in the OP, I don't think you understand.
As for the artifacting it doesn't look like that in motion, it instead looks more like a weird blur.

It's not upscaling, but each frame is still 960x1080. As the eye perceives it, it should be a bit sharper than 960x1080 upscaled, but as far as the hardware is concerned, the framebuffer is still a much lower resolution than 1920x1080.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

so... the parallax frame buffer only renders FXAA when Tessellation is shown in 1080 lines while the Textures only render at half the current resolution at 60 frames versus 30 frames as long as Blast Processing is enabled?

Right.

But.......... you also need a display that can accept the field rendered pentatonics in turbo mode at "at least" 960 megapixels per alternating frame. Without this, the interpolated sub-pixels are likely to up-sample to a nearest neighbor bi-linear filter instead of the more accurate tri-linear post processing mode.

 

[Roshin]

Is this really that important of a detail?

It's the topic of the thread, so yes, kind of relevant.

 

[Paertan]

I would like them do lower the graphics even more and give us solid 60 fps for 24 player Warzone.

 

[Foxix Von]

On one hand I'm seriously upset at GG being so disingenuous about this. On the other I'm seriously impressed at the ingenuity that's on display here. I can kind of understand why they wouldn't comment on this as it's bonkers as hell to try explaining the concept clearly. Bringing the issue up would probably only confuse people as to what is actually going on. Still though, shame on them for advertising it the way the have.

 

[Atraveller]

A "resolution doesn't matter as long at its fun" post for a PS4 game. The generation is truly doomed.

lol

 

[Kuro]

Does this mean Titanfall is really pushing more pixels and if not, why?

 

[Liabe Brave]

It's not upscaling, but each frame is still 960x1080. As the eye perceives it, it should be a bit sharper than 960x1080 upscaled, but as far as the hardware is concerned, the framebuffer is still a much lower resolution than 1920x1080.

You're incorrect. What you just described is pretty much horizontal upscaling, as used by e.g. Gran Turismo 5 or Wipeout HD.

Killzone is not doing this; the final framebuffer is 1920x1080. Now, only half the pixels (alternating columns) are traditionally rendered. But the other half aren't filled in by stretching the rendered half, nor are they filled by repeating them from the last frame. They are apparently calculated by moving all the pixels from the last frame in all the different directions at the different speeds they were going. It won't be just a bit sharper than an upscale, but much sharper. Approximations and truncations in the reprojection will cause visible artifacts, though.

 

[coolasj19]

You may be right I never read the multiplayer thread. That said I want the proof. Show me one post were someone claimed the resolution was a lie. If the loss was that big a deal people would have been all over that shit.

Well, NeoGAF isn't a good place to get those quotes. Comparatively, we're taking this really well. Compared to some other places. So what we have here, is a type of rendering/displaying that has no name what-so-ever. Apparently it's not 1080i or 1080p. Still down for the 1080π classification.

This has made me want to finish the campaign.

I game on PC exclusively and I've often voiced my distaste for many of Microsoft's policies, so I hope that people will not attribute the things I'll say below to some sort of pro-MS agenda. My post history should be evidence enough of the contrary.

As someone who is neutral in this console war, I believe that for some reason Sony and the PS4 are getting quite a few "free rides" from regular gamers here on GAF, from the press as well as from the industry insiders that frequent these forums. The situation with Killzone's resolution (and frame rate, since it seems it's usually nowhere near 60fps) and especially the fact that it took so many months for the truth to come out is in my opinion pretty telling.

The one question I would like answered is this: GAF insiders blew the lid off the resolution situation of pretty much every single nextgen launch game. No one, not a single one of them had the connections or the inside knowledge to find out the Killzone thing until now? Not CBOAT, not famousmortimer, not thuway, not a single one? Doesn't anyone find this weird?

Probably because Guerrilla Games refers to it as 1080p also. It's not really a thing that can be "found out". And even if they did, what were they going to say? We can't even decipher the terminology to properly decode this. I doubt any of our insiders could either. And lastly, I don't think there was anything to find out. The games been out since November. We've been playing this game and only now did someone make the claim that it runs at 960 x 1080. Which isn't technically true.

On the free ride thing? Probably. They have a lot of goodwill stored up from basically "being not Microsoft". But can you blame us? But alas, when Sony does something wrong, Sony gets bashed on it. It just doesn't happen often these days.

 

[alexandros]

I game on PC exclusively and I've often voiced my distaste for many of Microsoft's policies, so I hope that people will not attribute the things I'll say below to some sort of pro-MS agenda. My post history should be evidence enough of the contrary.

As someone who is neutral in this console war, I believe that for some reason Sony and the PS4 are getting quite a few "free rides" from regular gamers here on GAF, from the press as well as from the industry insiders that frequent these forums. The situation with Killzone's resolution (and frame rate, since it seems it's usually nowhere near 60fps) and especially the fact that it took so many months for the truth to come out is in my opinion pretty telling.

The one question I would like answered is this: GAF insiders blew the lid off the resolution situation of pretty much every single nextgen launch game. No one, not a single one of them had the connections or the inside knowledge to find out the Killzone thing until now? Not CBOAT, not famousmortimer, not thuway, not a single one? Doesn't anyone find this weird?

 

[Hawk269]

It's not on Xbox?

Hmmm. Probably one of the best replies yet in the thread.

 

[Foxix Von]

Does this mean Titanfall is really pushing more pixels and if not, why?

Yes.

No.

Well sort of.

How about maybe?

 

[GamingIsDead]

You may be right I never read the multiplayer thread. That said I want the proof. Show me one post were someone claimed the resolution was a lie. If the loss was that big a deal people would have been all over that shit.

Not many were claiming it was less then 1080p because they were told otherwise however they did make statements that the IQ was blurry that is what matters. (some clones but w/e)

Anyways
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=93340510&postcount=2174
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90303929&postcount=236
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102680441&postcount=103
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97709207&postcount=4034
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90247787&postcount=151
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90258629&postcount=175
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92503270&postcount=1725
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=93207247&postcount=2104

 

[sp3000]

the multiplayer is noticably poorer in visuals compared to the single player. i guess this is one of the reasons why! why did it take so long for this to come out???

It was always considered an AA solution. Everyone took the word from GG for it.

 

[xkramz]

Yes.

No.

Well sort of.

How about maybe?

Idk what to think anymore

 

[7DollarHagane]

This isn't true 1080p any more than using motion flow on your TV settings makes games run at 60fps.

 

[AmyS]

I picked up Killzone: Shadow Fall at PS4's launch, and since then spent about a total of 90 minutes or so on SP & MP combined compared to countless hours in BF4, so I haven't really spent enough time with the game to notice the different resolution and framerates, originally and with the patch in SP or MP.

 

[chubigans]

This is all so crazy and fascinating at the same time.