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[Denton]

That "filmic look" excuse is the greatest load of horseshit I have read this week. And I read a lot of horseshit this week.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Just curious, but why are fewer posters complaining about the lack of 60fps in this game, like I have seen with numerous other games on neogaf?

 

[Ricky_R]

Thank you RAD, for going with 30 FPS. Just lock it there and maintain that awesome motion blur and we're cool.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

60FPS has a VERY distinctive look and feel to it that may not be appropriate for the aesthetic that RAD is going for.

"This is just too smooth looking, could we do something about that?"

 

[InfiniteNine]

I can't really believe they said that just because it's so dumb. Say you sacrificed it for more graphical power to put into the game not because you wanted to make it more "filmic."

 

[KCroxtonJr]

Two years from now, we'll get 20fps games because "10 fps doesn't feel good".

They never said 60fps doesn't feel good...

Nor did they ever say they considered/targeted 24fps.

Severe lack of reading comprehension in this thread lol

edit: also, movies (aka films) generally run at 24fps. So how would 30fps, which is closer to that than 60fps is, NOT be more "film like?" I don't see the issue here lol

 

[ShinMaruku]

I can get 30 but fuck the filmic feel. I don't want games to be like movies. You guys limit yourselves in odd ways developers. Thank god I ain't a developer. Their culture is one of batshit.

 

[bananafactory]

I'd be curious to see if anyone claiming that 60 fps doesn't change the aesthetics of a game watched the HFR version of The Hobbit. When you talk about that "film" feel, films are generally filmed at 24fps and anything higher looks...off.

But of course games are different than film and 24 fps is obviously not a realistic idea, so they're going with 30.

 

[VanWinkle]

Stop it. Action looks far better in higher frame rates. The Order is a action focused game. Not a slow opera. The problem with Hobbit have been the scenes between the action. The answer to that is post-production downgrading. Half the framerate, add in motion blur. Its pretty easy now, but the technic wasn't there when Hobbit was made.

But again, we are talking about a action game. Not a soap opera.

No. Movies are 24fps (99% of the time). If a major movie comes out with twice the framerate, it looks off. And it did look off. I'm not saying 24fps is better, I'm saying that since it's the norm, something different looks weird.

"This is just too smooth looking, could we do something about that?"

Probably more "this doesn't look remotely like a movie, could we do something about that?"

 

[TheSlySoul]

As long as it is 1080p, then it can be 30 FPS just fine. The human eye has trouble past 50 FPS anyways. I did not know films ran at 24 FPS though, but it was a good choice to not go for it. 30FPS is a pretty good compromise.

 

[JayEH]

Really tired of the excuse that 30 fps is "more cinematic".

 

[ethomaz]

Please inform me of what games suffer from having a higher frame rate?

Games that get faster in 60fps... I tried some in PC few years ago.

Dark Souls II have this issue in the new one list.

 

[Gbraga]

Good, I'm fine with 30fps for this.



You might want to read. They never considered it. All he said was that films are 24fps and that that obviously doesn't work for games.

The way it sounds to me is like "30fps is as close as we can get to that look without compromising gameplay", so, while they may never actually considered using it, they do think it would look good, and, well, I completelly disagree.

Ugh. 60fps is such a massive improvement over 30fps. I will still get the game if it's good and I love this studio, just disappointed.

No reason to be disappointed with 30fps imo, it was obvious it would never be 60, even more after they revealed they're going with 4xMSAA, no way in hell it would run at 60fps looking like it does, I just think they're reasoning is bs.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Might as well make the game black and white. It takes place in the 19th century after all. Colors change the aesthetic.

 

[rokkerkory]

new term? "filmic" lol

In anycase, 30fps locked solid is great for this game.

 

[Durante]

I'd be curious to see if anyone claiming that 60 fps doesn't change the aesthetics of a game watched the HFR version of The Hobbit.

I did. I thought it was much better.

 

[VanWinkle]

Really tired of the excuse that 30 fps is "more cinematic".

Do you think 60fps looks just as similar to movies?

I did. I thought it was much better.

So you thought it changed the aesthetics.

Might as well make the game black and white. It takes place in the 19th century after all. Colors change the aesthetic.

They aren't designing the game based on how pictures/videos looked in the 19th century.

 

[bananafactory]

No. Movies are 24fps (99% of the time). If a major movie comes out with twice the framerate, it looks off. And it did look off. I'm not saying 24fps is better, I'm saying that since it's the norm, something different looks weird.



Probably more "this doesn't look remotely like a movie, could we do something about that?"

Thank you, I just made the same point in my post. Look at that fake "cinemotion" stuff they have on the high refresh rate TVs, it just totally changes the appearance. 60 fps is more fun to play but if the devs really are going for the look of a film (and it seems they are serious about it, given the aspect ratio/black bars), then 30 is definitely the right choice.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I can get 30 but fuck the filmic feel. I don't want games to be like movies. You guys limit yourselves in odd ways developers. Thank god I ain't a developer. Their culture is one of batshit.

They're not limiting themselves, they're just giving BS reasons for why it's 30 instead 60 instead of just leaving it at "because we want prettier graphics." It's odd because we all know that's why and are fine with it.

Probably more "this doesn't look remotely like a movie, could we do something about that?"

Do you honestly think this is something that has ever been said during game development? "This doesn't look like a movie, let's cut the frame rate in half!"

 

[nded]

Pretty sure it's 30fps because that's a typically accepted way to balance high visual fidelity with a consistent and playable frame rate.

 

[Durante]

So you thought it changed the aesthetics.

Well, yes, it changed the aesthetics in so far as it stuttered less.

 

[Betty]

I'd argue better graphics help a game to be played at it's best.

Completely disagree. Graphics are important but how the game plays is more important.

Going back to the PS3 and seeing all the 30fps games just tires out my eyes and makes me wish they were 60fps. And this is coming from a guy who couldn't tell the difference between the two before this gen and thought it wasn't even a big deal.

Clearly RAD want to design a film like experience and there's nothing wrong with that at all, I'd just think it would be preferable to have a choice between playing in 30fps, or 60fps, kinda of like how Bioshock 1 let you choose to do, even if playing at the higher frame rate meant the graphical effects took a hit.

 

[dwells]

Why should first-person shooters be 60fps and third-person shooters be 30fps?

What is the difference between them where framerate suddenly doesn't matter as much?

It depends on the game, really. There's first person shooters that play fine at thirty.

Typically, however, I think of first person games as being faster paced and more twitchy, as opposed to third person which tends to play slower, has more awareness of the surroundings, cover system, etc. So you could argue that the instant responsiveness and sharpness of the controls that you get from sixty frames is less important in a third person game than it is in a first person. But like I said, it really does come down to the individual game.

Ideally, every game would be running at sixty or more frames and have great visuals, but that's obviously not the case.

 

[Bsigg12]

As long as it is 1080p, then it can be 30 FPS just fine. The human eye has trouble past 50 FPS anyways. I did not know films ran at 24 FPS though, but it was a good choice to not go for it. 30FPS is a pretty good compromise.

Come on now. Do you actually believe what you just wrote?

 

[Brashnir]

new term? "filmic" lol

In anycase, 30fps locked solid is great for this game.

not new, just shitty.

 

[bananafactory]

I did. I thought it was much better.

I agree, it was smoother, clearer and vastly improved the 3D effect. But it does change the appearance, so if RAD is going for a "classic" film look, then 30 shouldn't be ruled out.

 

[ShinMaruku]

They're not limiting themselves, they're just giving BS reason for why it's 30 instead 60 instead of just leaving it at "because we want prettier graphics." It's odd because we all know that's why and are fine with it.

That is why I say they are limiting themselves because they use it as a bullshit excuse for more graphics. Saying filmic makes them sound smarter and maybe they deluded themselves into thinking that's valid. Like I said strange culture they have.

 

[Ziffles]

No. Movies are 24fps (99% of the time). If a major movie comes out with twice the framerate, it looks off. And it did look off. I'm not saying 24fps is better, I'm saying that since it's the norm, something different looks weird.
"

I think one of the reasons why it seems "off" that your brain is getting more information than it's used to. With a lot of the movie shot against a green screen and filled with CGI, it's easier to spot the fakiness.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Well atleast they're being honest with the fact they wouldn't be able to look good and have 60fps at the same time.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Read the article guys. They do admit pretty straight-up that this is mainly a concession for increased fidelity.

There's also an interest blurb at the bottom that talks about research done that shows that better graphics correlate to better reviews and sales, while better framerate doesn't.

Not surprising, but it does go to show why devs choose to go the route they do.

Yeah, people notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps, but not as much as they notice the difference in visuals you get from prioritizing graphical fidelity over 60fps. Same goes for resolution- people notice the difference between 1080p and 720p, sure, but not as much as they notice better textures, higher polycounts, more characters on the screen at once, etc.

That goes double for this day and age, where most people will only see your game in the form of JPEGs and compressed 30fps video before deciding if they want to buy it or not.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm fine with that, but will the resolution be 800p or will it be 1080p?

1920 x 800 which is neither 800p nor 1080p. It's in between.

 

[Artex]

If they could actually get the game running at 60 FPS locked but intentionally made it 30 FPS I would be speechless, but I'm assuming this is just PR speak.

I think it would be more accurate to assume that they decided on the 30fps and then designed the game around it.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

What is this supposed to mean? The game won't be filmic in 60fps?

It seems exactly whats I read. It will not have the same visual... It will have to be downgraded and theyre looking for a more impressive experience in terms of visual.

And honestly, with those impressive graphics and atmosphere, I rather play on 30 then argue for getting it at 60 and downgraded.

 

[Kinyou]

I can understand choosing graphics over 60FPS but this quote

If you push that to 60, and you have it look the way we do, it actually would end up looking like something on the Discovery Channel, like an HDTV kind of segment or a sci-fi original movie maybe. Which doesn't quite have the kind of look and texture that we want from a movie. The escapism you get from a cinematic film image is just totally different than what you get from television framing, so that was something we took into consideration.

makes me almost believe that they'd lock the game at 30FPS even if they could achieve 60FPS without giving up any effects, textures etc, and that would be just crazy

 

[mrklaw]

I'd quite like to see someone try a 24fps mode, with actual FW support for 24Hz input on a TV.

I'd also like to see an option for 1080p/50. I'm pretty sure most HDTVs should support that and it would be a nice halfway house between 30 and 60, for some unlocked framerate games

 

[Brashnir]

Hey, you know what? If you want your game to be more like a film, I'll just watch a let's play of it rather than buying it.

That way we both get what we want.

 

[VanWinkle]

They're not limiting themselves, they're just giving BS reasons for why it's 30 instead 60 instead of just leaving it at "because we want prettier graphics." It's odd because we all know that's why and are fine with it.



Do you honestly think this is something that has ever been said during game development? "This doesn't look like a movie, let's cut the frame rate in half!"

Yeah, it doesn't look like every other aspect of the visuals they designed around film. Although they probably never had it at 60fps in the first place because they already know how 60fps looks.

I can understand choosing graphics over 60FPS but this quote

makes me almost believe that they'd lock the game at 30FPS even if they could achieve 60FPS without giving up any effects, textures etc, and that would be just crazy

Yup, but people will just keep going on saying that RaD is just lying and misleading about their reasons.

 

[Corpekata]

These guys need to learn how to not speak like they're constantly doing PR. Just say you want it to be prettier and you can't do it while maintaining a stable frame rate. Enough with the snake oil banter.

 

[Kazerei]

We're going for this filmic look, so one thing that we knew immediately was films run at 24 fps.

They are joking about this though, right?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Those 6 frames are powerful. Good enough to make it fun but still far enough to make it playable.

Save us from the 60 fps scum.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Come on now. Do you actually believe what you just wrote?

Yes I do

While there is no proof of the limit of the human eye, most normal people cannot tell the difference in FPS. How many people will spot the difference between a 120 Hz and 240 Hz LED TV? Also, the human eye is limited to 7 Megapixels. No matter how much you push a game, graphics are limited to how much humans can take in. Locking in 30 FPS provides a smoother experience than 60 FPS with drops.

 

[Seanspeed]

I still wonder about that Insomniac blurb though. Call of Duty does crazy well and maybe that's partially just because of the theme but it's definitely keeping people playing and the same can't be said for a lot of other games that are 30fps out there. It may also be that the games that are cutting edge usually blow off going for 60fps while a lot of lower end ones go for 60fps because they may as well. I do imagine the hardware for last gen wasn't very accomodating to being BOTH HD and 60fps admittedly, but it does seem we're likely in a better situation for this hardware and 1080p.

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare did a lot of things right, though. It had a great single-player and it had one of the most enjoyable, addictive multiplayer experiences ever when it came out. I think it would have succeeded even with 30fps, but for sure, 60fps gave it that edge that had people forever talking about how 'smooth' it felt to play and whatnot. I think that really did start the push for 60fps in shooters that we see today.

3rd person shooters just need that same 'eureka' moment. They don't benefit any less from 60fps. But developers don't have the balls to do it, because they know that at the moment, graphics sell. Nobody wants to be the first to take the plunge. But I know if a quality developer did it and came out with a great 3rd person shooter that was also 60fps, it would have the potential to change things.

I play 60fps third person shooters on the PC and they seriously are great like that. Peoplemay 'be fine' with 30fps, but many people were 'fine' with Halo and Battlefield on the consoles as well. Standards can change and I think they should. Sacrifice some graphic fidelity and give us games that feel awesome to play!

 

[Freeman]

Threads regarding fps are where the most ignorant comments from Neogaf are located.

How can choosing the frame rate to be 30, 60 or whatever not be an artistic choice? Same goes for aspect ratio. You like 60fps without black bars? Fine, but stop acting like it the "right" choice or anything like it. That's why devs can't pay attention to what people ask, a significant number of them just repeat the same things that they heard somewhere else without ever stopping to think about it.

Honestly if high frame rate or aspect ratio is so determinant to you, stop wasting everybody's time and go buy a 120Hz monitor and a capable PC and you are set.

 

[Boudica]

I'm sure as hell glad it has no multiplayer then.

yet another 30 fps shooter....I'm interested in what exactly changes The Order for the worst if it ran in 60fps

If they were going for a film feel, wouldn't going 60fps make it feel the way movies on 240hz TV feel weird. I don't know how to extract explain it, but they don't feel like normal movies anymore, they look floaty.

 

[jeffrockz312]

Cool story bro.

 

[CappyHamper]

This is just my opinion, but when i played dark souls on my PS3, i loved the clunky feeling of the game. Now i with Dark souls 2 i played it on my pc, and at 60+ fps it just feels very unnatural for me, like everything is going way to fast.

Wow I really had the opposite experience with Dark Souls (1), going from my PS3 to the machine I built last year was like night and day. I felt like I could finally start playing the game properly.

 

[KCroxtonJr]

They are joking about this though, right?

What's the joke? films do generally run at 24fps.

 

[RE_Player]

I love how people blindly comment on framerate topics. In my opinion when it comes to multiplatform games framerate, resolution etc is extremely important when comparing different console performance as it helps my purchasing decision. When it comes to platform exclusives like this as long as it looks good and has a steady framerate I'm fine since that is the only version of the game.

 

[Charleston]

I would honestly prefer 60fps with less fidelity, but I guess I can see where they are coming from.

 

[imtehman]

Threads regarding fps are where the most ignorant comments from Neogaf are located.

How can choosing the framerate to be 30, 60 or whatever not be an artistic choice? Same goes for aspect ratio. You like 60fps without black bars? Fine, but stop acting like it the "right" choice or anything like it. That's why devs can't pay attention to what people ask, a significant number of them just repeat the same things that they heard somewhere else without ever stopping to think about it.

when goin from 30 to 60 fps takes a huge hit on graphical fidelity