Canis lupus
Member
In car games, BF4 or Resogun, while they do appear smoother, I don't experience the soap opera effect, but it was definetly there in TR.
The Order: 1886 is 30fps because 24fps doesn't "feel good", 60fps "changes aesthetic"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
In car games, BF4 or Resogun, while they do appear smoother, I don't experience the soap opera effect, but it was definetly there in TR.
abstract alien
Member
I wish more films adopted a higher framerate. They look so much better with it a lot of the time, and we could start getting more games that strive for high framerate as "cinematic". 24fps has looked date for a long time in film for me.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Name some films with obvious and pervasive aberration. Hell, name one. (Google is cheating.)
That was proven wrong so often, but Sony fans keep saying it, in the hope it becomes true...
TR?
CadetMahoney
Member
First post nails it.
Also quite telling to those ppl who say 60 frames is for virgin enthusiast gamers no one cares about.
If no one cared about what they thought about framerates, why do big money publishers go full out damage control and spin for an "issue" no one cares about?
Truth is they know target 30fps is not going to cut it and are trying to convince everyone that it's ok, in fact it's better than 60fps!
Feel free to point out the flaws in my reasoning, if you can. Its got less to do with what you're a fan of and more to do with logic and common sense.
Canis lupus
Member
tomb raider
That makes absolutely no sense. You can't just apply the kind of motion blur you see at 24fps to 60fps footage. The reason those long blurs exist is because objects are moving large distances between frames; at 60fps, those objects are moving much shorter distances.
I can only imagine the result of what your source was suggesting would be for all moving objects to have bizarre, long, streaky blurs following them around all the time.
Dr. Buni
Member
Me too! I've been watching stuff with SmoothVideo Project at 48 or 60fps lately and it is fucking great. I don't want to go back to 24fps.
cheezcake
Member
That's frame interpolation...
Its ok for sports, but for movies and newer TV shows it makes everything look extremely 'fake'. I've seen it on pretty much every big TV manufacturers top of the line displays.
Frame interpolation is the devil's pubes. It's the feeling that people who complain about 60fps want to avoid.
cobragt4001
Banned
I'm a pc gamer as well and I have to say the order the best looking game Ive seen next to witcher 3 and star citizen but I question the scale of the game. I just wonder how big the levels are and do cutscenes out weight actual gameplay?
I'm pretty sure for the latter that this will not be the case, even if that was their ambition.
It's much easier to make an enemy encounter with 20 enemies that hide behind cover than direct a cutscene that takes the same length as such a shootout that is governed by AI.
Is the soap opera effect due to frame interpolation or is it present in true 60fps movies as well?
I've experienced the soap opera efffect on a friend's TV and it's annoying as hell. But I've never seen it in any 60fps game.
cobragt4001
Banned
Well the developers do keep going on about this stupid filmic experience so I was just wondering. If the scale of the game is comparable to any other game with decent sized levels then I take my hat off to them because it's about time we get graphics like the Order has in these games.
cobragt4001
Banned
M°°nblade;113872933 said:
The soap opera effect has a unique look because you're looking at film recorded at 60fps, making everything looks cheap. You won't have the soap opera effect in games because games look like games and not reality. 60fps actually makes games look more realistic because of the level of detail and information your brain receives from the moving image. That's why racing games are usually 60fps for the sake of realism.
Would you criticise someone for choosing to make a radio drama rather than a television show? Would you take to the internet in order to accuse them of only making a radio drama because they weren't good enough to make a television show?
Some people sure would.
What a flawed and bullshit comparison. The analogy would be would you criticise someone for just taking the audio of a movie and claim "it's a radio show" now? Sure I would, if I'd actually care for that stuff.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Plain textures
Poor geometry
No complex shadows
No AO
Good IQ
Nice framerate
Nice animations
4/10
"Taking the audio of a movie" implies a complete movie already exists. Which in this case would be implying that a 60fps version of The Order exists.
Which it doesn't. And presumably never did.
But of course, it's me making the bullshit comparisons.
It is you indeed and you won't get me venturing down the road of flawed comparisons any further.
Except Driveclub, which embraces the premiun cinematic experience.
And the look of soap operas comes from cheap lighting and taperecording. Soap opera effect on the other hand from interpolation, a problem sub 60 fps material is suffering from more.
I was looking forward to seeing the logical hoops you'd have to jump through to explain yourself, but OK, I guess.
cobragt4001
Banned
Man get out of here with that crap. DC was compromised the day the developers decided to go 30fps . There is nothing filmic or cinematic about DC.......It's a freaken racer lol
Which plays worse to look better. Video over Game. This is all we are discussing here in a nutshell.
eso76
Member
This is pointless. The 60fps crowd will never simply accept that someone might genuinely like the look of motion blurred 30fps better in some cases.
" 30fps IS more filmic than 60fps " was NEVER proven wrong. It can't be proven wrong.
While you can't obtain a motion blur the same quality of that captured on film, 30fps+mb will always look a lot closer to what [our brain is conditioned to think] a movie looks like than 60fps.
There's no way around this.
Whether this is because our brain is conditioned to automatically classify 24fps as film and 60fps as cheap camcorder footage, that's another story, but the point still stands.
I am a videomaker, i do video and motion graphics for a living.
If i shot 48 fps footage with my camera most people have the impression it doesn't "look like a movie" for some reason (most won't be able to tell why)
Simply halving the framerate will do the trick: people will think that the same footage now "looks like film".
And when i do motion graphics in After Effects or some 3d rendering software i can export to whichever framerate i like. And i sometimes choose 25 fps with motion blur, because in a lot of cases i just prefer that look. Plain and simple.
It is, in other words, my artistic choice, and as someone who does motion graphics and often goes for 25fps i completely understand why 30fps might honestly be a purely aesthetic choice.
Of course there are benefits coming from that and from the 800p resolution, but that's beyond the point.
There are other factors working in favour of 30fps.
60fps will in fact look closer to real life.
Because of that and because of the increased fidelity, your eyes are more likely to go searching for inaccuracies and inconsistencies.
That's why watching the Hobbit, I'd often snap out of the illusion and had to try really hard to convince myself i wasn't looking at a bunch of weird guys wearing funny costumes and make up moving back and forth on a movie set.
60fps improve depth perception; everything appears sharper. The shape of things and objects onscreen becomes easier to read, 3d models acquire a much more 'solid' presence. Which is good in many ways, but also makes it much easier to pick inaccuracies, polygonal edges and flat surfaces.
To someone these might all sound like positives in a game, i'm not arguing that.
Just accept that not everyone looks for the same things.
Sometimes, 30fps help the illusion; it's a screen that helps hiding fine details that immediately tell you what you're looking at is fake and it sometimes works better for games that go for a movie look or photorealism.
" 30fps IS more filmic than 60fps " was NEVER proven wrong. It can't be proven wrong.
While you can't obtain a motion blur the same quality of that captured on film, 30fps+mb will always look a lot closer to what [our brain is conditioned to think] a movie looks like than 60fps.
There's no way around this.
Whether this is because our brain is conditioned to automatically classify 24fps as film and 60fps as cheap camcorder footage, that's another story, but the point still stands.
I am a videomaker, i do video and motion graphics for a living.
If i shot 48 fps footage with my camera most people have the impression it doesn't "look like a movie" for some reason (most won't be able to tell why)
Simply halving the framerate will do the trick: people will think that the same footage now "looks like film".
And when i do motion graphics in After Effects or some 3d rendering software i can export to whichever framerate i like. And i sometimes choose 25 fps with motion blur, because in a lot of cases i just prefer that look. Plain and simple.
It is, in other words, my artistic choice, and as someone who does motion graphics and often goes for 25fps i completely understand why 30fps might honestly be a purely aesthetic choice.
Of course there are benefits coming from that and from the 800p resolution, but that's beyond the point.
There are other factors working in favour of 30fps.
60fps will in fact look closer to real life.
Because of that and because of the increased fidelity, your eyes are more likely to go searching for inaccuracies and inconsistencies.
That's why watching the Hobbit, I'd often snap out of the illusion and had to try really hard to convince myself i wasn't looking at a bunch of weird guys wearing funny costumes and make up moving back and forth on a movie set.
60fps improve depth perception; everything appears sharper. The shape of things and objects onscreen becomes easier to read, 3d models acquire a much more 'solid' presence. Which is good in many ways, but also makes it much easier to pick inaccuracies, polygonal edges and flat surfaces.
To someone these might all sound like positives in a game, i'm not arguing that.
Just accept that not everyone looks for the same things.
Sometimes, 30fps help the illusion; it's a screen that helps hiding fine details that immediately tell you what you're looking at is fake and it sometimes works better for games that go for a movie look or photorealism.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Pretty much and you see many defend their decision to go 30fps on that game too. Which is fine but let's cut the bullshit, they do it because they hit the ceiling in the hardware and put graphics over gameplay and they will continue to do that because we are all suckers for better graphics unless the frame rates become unbearable. I just wish they gave us the option to crank up the fps on consoles even if it means a hit on graphics.
cobragt4001
Banned
Let's not get too much off topic here but I agree. Racers should be 60fps, never 30fps unless it looks like real life which DC is so far from looking like.
cobragt4001
Banned
Please stop. We're talking videogames here, which are blatant illusions so 60fps is always the better choice if achievable. You have never played on pc I bet because 60fps with medium to max motion blur works the same way as 30fps abd motion blur, I should know because playing bf3 and 4 with motion blur and 60fps was a treat on the sp, not so much on mp though.
eso76
Member
And i, among other things, was talking motion graphics.
Abstract even, which is blatant illusion. Your point ?
I'm not trying to convince you that you should like 30fps better.
So don't try to convince me that i should always like 60fps better
I perfectly understand the reasons why you'd always rather have 60fps. I concur even.
But I told you the reasoning why i honestly prefer the look of 30fps in some cases, which is why I perfectly understand why an artist would choose that for purely aesthetic reasons.
I understand that because it's the same choice I would make (again, in SOME cases).
I understand and respect both positions, when the 60fps or die crowd will start doing the same then this thread will have achieved something
Of course I wouldn't. I have enjoyed listening to radio dramas and where did you even get that idea?
I meant that something that works in radio might not work in television and the same thing with movies and video games.
LOL….really?
Right click the video and choose full screen for best viewing.
http://e1.dl.playstation.net/e1/campaignsite/driveclub/Driveclub_Cayoosh_Evening_PreOrder8OCT.mp4
I must say, the hyperbole in this thread is reaching circus levels of absurdity.
A stupendously good looking arcade racer, yes.
Can't see shit. Great example of unnecessary effects that detract from the gameplay.
cobragt4001
Banned
Again, we're talking videogames, in no way can 30fps benefit a game's look compared with 60fps. My point is the devs should be honest about why the game is 30fps and not use silly excuses.
Damn mother nature for putting in unnecessary effects like the sun! .And materials that reflect it!
In this case they explained why they went with 30 fps? To get better playability than with 24 fps.
The only thing that's absurd here is your belief that everyone shares your standards.
30fps does not look good to me in general, but it's even worse for games that are supposed to convey a sense of speed. No amount of visual polish will fix that.
Krusenstern
Banned
I hate it when the sun shines right in front of my car and blinds me! Fix that shit God.
No, damn the developers for adding unnecessary things like motion blur, lens flares, lens dirt and camera shake in videogames where they decrease the visual clarity of the image and make it harder for me to play the game.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Can we just drop the act now? You go into threads about Ryse, Forza and most XBox One games and we see the same scrutiny time and time again. Then we see you in DriveClub Infamous, The Order Threads and it's nothing but praise and excitement while trying your damnedest to cast away any doubts from others. Absurd indeed.
Devs can use whatever techniques they like as long as it suits and serves the gameplay.