SMOK3Y
Generous Member
nice to read as I have been thinking of getting a 4K set but just wondered how the PS4 will look do the games scale real good (if you have a PS4 lol)
What's the next step for next-gen consoles - 1080p/60, 1440p, 4K?
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
nice to read as I have been thinking of getting a 4K set but just wondered how the PS4 will look do the games scale real good (if you have a PS4 lol)
Games should look fine.
3840x2160 (4K) is exactly double 1080p so there should be no scaling.
LittleJohnny
Banned
Why do people focus on pixels? Is the difference between Watch Dogs PS3 vs PS4 just a few hundred Ps? Absolutely not, its just a very small part of what makes next gen visuals great.
The next step may be real time ray tracing, or a technique that comes really close to it. It will be a dramatic breakthrough regardless of the Ps.
The next step may be real time ray tracing, or a technique that comes really close to it. It will be a dramatic breakthrough regardless of the Ps.
Can you not be so reductive? It's not just about pixels, it's about picture quality and the ability to see the whole gaming world in all it's glory. Texture quality is redundant if I can't have it run native 1080p and above!
Chittagong
Gold Member
4K certainly.
And looking at how well PS4 seems to be doing, it will be a long, long, long wait.
And looking at how well PS4 seems to be doing, it will be a long, long, long wait.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I doubt 4K TVs will even be taking off by then.
Nikodemos
Member
There's still a good bit of stuff to be improved upon at 1080p/60Hz. F'rex finding a way to implement 8x aniso filtering without strangling the unified memory bus. Or more particle effects. Or more NPCs. Or better dynamic lighting. There's no real point in trying to aim for higher res while there's still a lot of untapped potential.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
not just arguing but holographic fight threads lol
Yeah, gotta draw the line there. We needed new hardware to avoid that kind of bullshit, if you do something like that which ISN'T a deliberate retro-style game (like Mercenary Kings, technically) or at least 60fps then you better have done something amazing with the gameplay, because you'll have fucked up your high end graphics by going that low in resolution.
I don't think we'll see it though, not many PS2 games were 240p and most of those had 480i or even 480p successors that looked better, such as Disgaea 2 after Disgaea 1 or Shadow of the Colossus after Ico. Likewise I don't think any PS3/360 game actually went down to under 480p, though SO4 flirted awfully close to 480p. So I expect 720p bare minimum, possibly hovering around 900p on PS4.
Plenty of early next-gen games already have this.
I'm already itching for something better than 1080p. After seeing 4k, its just that moment of 'Oh ok, things really can still look a lot better'.
I dont see why 4k TV's shouldn't become popular within the next 5-6 years. People say 'oh the content just isn't there', well, it doesn't have to be. How much 1080p TV content is there? Hardly any. Its mostly 720p/1080i still. You might think this is more reason that 1080p is good enough, but the point is - 1080p sets are still the standard. TV content not being native 1080p isn't stopping 1080p TV sales at all. So long as movies and games and whatnot can make use of the full resolution, people are happy with it.
And the same thing can happen with 4k. If we can even get 1080p TV content in the next 5 years, that shouldn't stop 4k sales so long as we can get 4k streaming of shows and movies and of course, games. The power should be there for it by then and internet infrastructure should be better, so why not? Prices are already coming down. If, in a few years, a 4K TV doesn't cost much more than a similar quality 1080p TV now, is there a reason to not buy it?
Next-gen consoles need to be 4K. Anything less would be laughable. 1080p with good AA would be the least impressive generation jump by miles. Don't forget that average TV sizes in homes is steadily growing. Unless this trend is going to stop sometime soon, 4K will remain a large and noticeable improvement for many people.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I wouldn't be surprised if the next round of consoles feature the ability to upgrade them.
This^
Cloud computing and game streaming all sound well and good on paper, but look what's going on between ISPs and other content delivery services. You can't build a skyscraper on a foundation of sand.
The infrastructure doesn't support that kind of market right now. Hell, I've seen a ton of people post on OT threads who have to deal with data caps of like 30Gb. If the industry pushed hard in this direction they'd run the risk of ostracizing a large number of consumers.
If everyone had Google Fiber then there would be no worries. Until then, many will still have the need for physical media.
LittleJohnny
Banned
BrokenIcarus
Member
I can see Sony (and maybe MS) creating a Platform that's an evolution of their current platform.
IE making a 7nm chip with the same die-size as the current PS4 chips, with GCN gpus and an 8-core CPU to make it highly backwards compatible, 16GB RAM with higher bandwidth and keep all the HW buses the same so developers can have an extremely easy time "up-porting" PS4 titles without spending a huge amount of cash.
Keep development costs low, otherwise this industry will cease to exist.
That way we could have something in the lines of 900p 30FPS Medium Res Textures for PS4 and 4K60FPS for High res Textures for the hypothetical PS5.
I don't think the Industry and individual developers can invest huge amounts of cash in learning new development cycles and creating immensely expensive assets for UHD game development.
It's just not very likely that if any of the companies would release a console that was very different development wise, that developers would take that extra investment to create content for this platform if the current platforms are still perfectly fine for the most part.
IE making a 7nm chip with the same die-size as the current PS4 chips, with GCN gpus and an 8-core CPU to make it highly backwards compatible, 16GB RAM with higher bandwidth and keep all the HW buses the same so developers can have an extremely easy time "up-porting" PS4 titles without spending a huge amount of cash.
Keep development costs low, otherwise this industry will cease to exist.
That way we could have something in the lines of 900p 30FPS Medium Res Textures for PS4 and 4K60FPS for High res Textures for the hypothetical PS5.
I don't think the Industry and individual developers can invest huge amounts of cash in learning new development cycles and creating immensely expensive assets for UHD game development.
It's just not very likely that if any of the companies would release a console that was very different development wise, that developers would take that extra investment to create content for this platform if the current platforms are still perfectly fine for the most part.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I'll quote Crytek
This is 1080p and we're still no where near close with real time graphics.
IMHO PS4 developers could do so much more if they go 720p and focus on quality per pixel.
This is 1080p and we're still no where near close with real time graphics.
IMHO PS4 developers could do so much more if they go 720p and focus on quality per pixel.
Caayn
Member
4K will definitely be the resolution to go for with the next-gen. Current PCs are already running games in 4K, while consoles are still stuck in 1080p and below.
But I hope that next-gen will bring more than just another resolution bump, and I really hope that the next-gen consoles won't be as disappointing hardware wise as the current ones.
But I hope that next-gen will bring more than just another resolution bump, and I really hope that the next-gen consoles won't be as disappointing hardware wise as the current ones.
The content does have to be there, this isn't like with HD sets where decently up scaled SD content looked better than it did on a SD CRT by virtue of having an entirely flat picture, no chromatic aberration due to the CRT guns being out of allignment, no wire fence artifacting due to the phosphor screen etc. All you get with 4K right now is a handful of 4K movies from distributors like Sony and a lot of up scaled content. The person above mentioned how between their 1080p and 4K set their Blu Rays looked better on the 4K, I call foul on that only because the only thing on that 4K that will make it look better is if the 4K has better picture quality i.e. Lower MLL, more accurate color, gamma etc. The up scaling isn't going to show any more information that what was already in the video, and from what I have seen of 4K up scaling demos in stores it often adds sharpening artifacts to give the perception of a higher resolution when in reality it's just obscuring fine detail.
I don't see how you think the power to have games at native 4K at 60 fps will be in a affordable place in five years when it takes Titans or better in SLI to get around or slightly above 30 fps in demanding games like Crysis 3. I personally wouldn't mind spending $600 or a little more on a next gen console if it really could deliver this but I'm in the minority, that's a huge price for a lot of consumers and as much as the PS3 was worth the price when it came out we saw how that panned out on launch.
It'd be nice if I was proven wrong and in five years low to mid range low price GPUs can achieve this but I just don't see it, especially since games continue to demand more and more power as we go along and once powerful cards have to work with lower and lower resolutions to show all these graphical enhancements at decent frame rates.
LittleJohnny
Banned
Thank you. I thought this was common sense, but people have been way too focused on resolution and I bet a lot has to do console wars and PR. We don't have to drop the resolution too low either, but even 1920 x 1080 is good for next gen if effects are blown up 16x, not laughable at all as some are stating. Why try to hit 4k with today's visuals? makes no sense to me.
No. They need to at least hit pixel-for-pixel for the most common display type. Which is 1080p. Has been for years now. I owned a 1080p TV before the X360 even launched. Upscaling is shit. We dealt with it for the entirety of last generation, I don't want to deal with it for another one.
Seeing as 1080p is still out of reach for quite a few developers, I'd say they should start there. Increase fidelity across everything else, and with a good AA solution, it'll be very hard to tell it apart from 4K to most users.
4K will remain a niche product for most users since there's no content to actually watch on it. Even by the time next-gen rolls around, it'll probably still be a very small percentage of users. It's like 3D this time around. The consoles can do it perfectly fine, but no one's pushing the idea. The consoles will probably be capable of it, but I don't see many devs actually bothering with it.
60fps will never become the standard. Some will do it, some won't, just like it's always been.
I'll just get this out of the way. You folks do realise that 3840x2160 is four times the resolution of 1920x1080 right? And you'd like that at 60 frames per second as well? Well that's an order of magnitude of 4 over 1080p60, and 8 times over 1080p30. So you think that's coming to a console generation soon at a reasonable cost that people would be able to afford?
I think it would be more reasonable to give it a few years and see how this generation pans out before having huge aspirations.
I think it would be more reasonable to give it a few years and see how this generation pans out before having huge aspirations.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
People were expecting 1080p/60fps as the standard for this gen. now that's entirely possible, if they were still using last gen graphics. 1080p/60fps will never be standard because devs are always going to push for higher visual fidelity at the compromise of performance. All these next gen games right now could be standard 1080p/60fps but they would have had to have compromises in the visuals which devs don't want to do.
BrokenIcarus
Member
Except this will blow up development costs substantially, which is a thing many people don't want.
Agree 100%. Sure, sticking with 720p for this gen would have been fine to instead focus on enhancing graphics and gameplay if TVs didn't jump 720p as a standard to 1080p. I think too many under estimate image quality in games in favor of everything else, native resolution should be a must for any developer in my opinion thanks to current generation displays having to scale anything non-native. This wasn't as much of an issue with gen six due to CRTs not having to digitally scale anything therefore a game with lower than 640x480 really didn't look bad from an image quality standpoint thanks to it remaking sharp and having no up scaling artifacts.
Giant Panda
Member
What sort of technology would consoles even be able to have 5 years from now? RAM should be doing pretty well thanks to stacked RAM but in the last few years CPU and GPU progress have really slowed down and shrinking the process node has been giving diminishing returns.
One open platform would be pretty sweet.
They scale perfectly.
Maintenance
Member
Seeing as how devs like their eye-candy, probably something like 4k/30fps. Or 1080p/60 with VR, if that survives into the future.
LordOfChaos
Member
I think they'll "support" 4K like the 7th gen consoles supported 1080P, a few choice titles may hit it, most won't. A lot of the generational power increase would be used up just pushing so many more pixels, so I for one am fine with more fanciness per pixel at 1080P. And by next gen everything should hit 1080 and 60fps.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Well Battlefield 4 and Watchdogs are both 900p on PS4. We're not even 1 year in.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Hawk269
Member
Yes, I have a PS4 and it looks great on the 4k set.
velociraptor
Junior Member
So I gather it looks exactly the same as a 1080p set right?
ScepticMatt
Member
Nothing. That's the difference between using Brigade 3 now and using it after 6 or so years of process improvements.
dgrdsv
Member
Nope. 4K is 4 times more processing that 1080p. PS4 is barely hitting 1080p right now. Chances that PS5 will hit 4K are close to zero simply because it won't be technically possible in the console's power budget.
Also - next gen will have to support 1080p which basically mean that there will be no incentive to buy 4K TVs even if new consoles will support it (I'm pretty sure that they will btw, for dashboards and HUDs, but not for rendering resolutions).
Answering the question of topic, UHD with 60fps should be an easy task but I think we will still see UHD/30fps for tvs be common and 1600/90fps for VR.
Heh, maybe if it came out next year.
Most likely 9th generation consoles will come out in 2019 to 2021 and they will have 64 to 256 GB of GDDR6/HBM/HMC memory. If there doesn't happen huge leaps in flash storage technology i think they will most likely have 500GB of SSD with 4TB to 10TB of mechanical storage. If we are going to still see physical game media, they will most like be delivered in 4 layer blu-ray and game sizes will be from 10GB to 100GB, first big games being around 60GB. Movies will be encoded as H.265 and blu-ray player speeds start at 10×.
For processing power I would theorize they will have a 8 to 16 x86_64 cores and the GPU will provide processing power of 216GigaPixels/s, 600GigaTexels/s and 16TF/s.
UHD TVs can scale 1080p content perfectly having 2×2 pixels be one pixel of 1080p content.
Heh, maybe if it came out next year.
Most likely 9th generation consoles will come out in 2019 to 2021 and they will have 64 to 256 GB of GDDR6/HBM/HMC memory. If there doesn't happen huge leaps in flash storage technology i think they will most likely have 500GB of SSD with 4TB to 10TB of mechanical storage. If we are going to still see physical game media, they will most like be delivered in 4 layer blu-ray and game sizes will be from 10GB to 100GB, first big games being around 60GB. Movies will be encoded as H.265 and blu-ray player speeds start at 10×.
For processing power I would theorize they will have a 8 to 16 x86_64 cores and the GPU will provide processing power of 216GigaPixels/s, 600GigaTexels/s and 16TF/s.
Two 780Tis are able to render battlefield 4 in high settings with avarage fps of 80fps in UHD resolution.
UHD TVs can scale 1080p content perfectly having 2×2 pixels be one pixel of 1080p content.
Why I am sticking to PC and Big N for this gen (will have PS4 only for exclusives). You either can get well done GFX via power or publisher that has proven its self. The next gen consoles will be equal to a modern phone in 3-4 years. IE they already super outdated and 3D processors(stacking them) is coming. IE huge leaps in performance.
hodayathink
Member
If the foundries can pull off 2 die shrinks in the next 5 years (we already have one coming in the next year, so one more after that), plus stacked ram and other advancements in actual chip design, and I can easily something along the lines of a Titan level of power (or even a decent amount better) being able to be had in next gen consoles and fitting into both the power and price requirements that MS and Sony would lay out. Now the question of whether they'd used that power to do 4 times the resolution, or just make things prettier at 1080p, depends on where 4K TV adoption goes in the next couple of years. It looks like the prices will be coming out of the stratosphere on them as early as next year (you can buy well known brand name 4KTVs now for around $2500, so next year could easily see them getting to around $1000-1500), and if they can get the prices to around $500-700 by two or three years from now, then I can see them getting enough penetration to make console makers target them. But that's a pretty large if.
Scorpion Soldier
Member
It doesn't have much application, but my point is I don't see it going further than that resolution, that's all. Well maybe 1440p, but I think another gen sticking to 1080p is much more likely.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
1080p/60. Consoles aren't doing 4k any time soon and nobody is making 1440p tvs.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
thanks Hawk & Vash. does anyone here know what a PS4 looks like through a 1440p screen as I need a screen with a VESA mount & the Samsung 4K monitor don't have it... would it be worth going to 1440p over 1080p for PC & PS4
