Guys if you want to get non lewdgaf people to watch this ngnl show you'll have to do better than "apart from the blatant fan service where naked girls show up on the loser protag's doorstep and 12 year old cameltoes are flashed on screen for your enjoyment it's actually good and non fan servicey I sweeeaaaarrr"
Spring 2014 Anime |OT2| about as likely as a second season of Hyouka
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Basileus777
Member
I don't get it either, but I only watched the first two episodes. I really don't like the art style and filter the show uses.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Yes
Who the hell cares about non lewdgaf?
Jex
Member
I don't think they're attempting to sell it so much as just give their reactions to it. Which is fine.
Still, any line of argument that goes "this is pretty okay apart from the extremely offensive fanservice" is something that could only be made with regards to anime. When you step back and look at it from the perspective of, say, a regular human that kind of fanservice is actually outrageous.
Yea the artstyle is awful, the filter is annoying.
It's just that the lead MC is a professional conman cheating his way through a fantasy world full of cheaters. Like everybody is cheating in the fantasy world. I'm not exaggerating at all when I say the MC is legitimately insane.
It's really not like Mondaji at all. It's much better for one.
Theonik
Member
Non-lewdgaf doesn't deserve to be pandered to though.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Well maybe if non-lewdgaf actually paid for shit that isn't "otaku"bait, we wouldn't be in this mess, now would we?
Is there nothing else in human experience that can't be described as being 'good except for the fanservice'? That seems unlikely, but I have to admit I can't think of an example off the top of my head.
/edit in fact, isn't Game of Thrones TV or any HBO show regularly described as being 'great except for all the boobs on screen'?
Jex
Member
Well, let's not get ridiculous. What people on GAF do or do not buy has zero impact on the industry as a whole.
No Life No Game is a pretty basic idea that could have been made in any time in the last 20 years, just fuse the traditional gambling show (Kaiji, One Outs, Akagi) with cute girls and gaming references. The only thing that's unique to the show as it is in this era of anime, and that is the relationship between the main character and his underage sister. The show isn't build around creepy loli incest and so you could easily remove it and the show would basically be the same. However, because it's a work in this era, the creator inserted those particular tropes because that's what the creepy otaku audience is looking for.
Jex
Member
Jintor, I was referring to a particular variety of fanservice. What would the critics say about Game of Thrones if the fanservice that it featured was close up panty shots of 12 year old girls. Isn't that a little different from your every day fanservice?
KirbYuuYuu
Member
That's the speak of defeatism.
In any case, despite the particular tropes, you actually made it sound interesting.
This era is dumb
Yea I definitely agree about the sister. It feels like she was created for four reasons:
1.The main character needed a partner that was equal to his intelligence
2.To avoid the MC being a Gary Stu, the sister is actually smarter than him
3.His relationship with his sister is a bit of a weakness that I have a feeling might be exploited later
4.Fanservice
She definitely didn't need to be either his sister or 11 years old. She could have been older and nothing would have changed. I do think the MC needed some sort of partner but there is something to be said about general anime trends that his partner turned out to be his kid sister.
I mean, this is something that's implicit in the statement itself, no? Like hell I'd ever recommend this to someone who is less desensitized than our depraved populace is!
No Game No Life 2
Sora is awesome. No qualifiers needed really it's more a statement of fact.
At least the gratuitous fanservice this time is of the busty granddaughter as opposed to the 11-ye-- wait no there's a bath scene, never mind!
If this is the kind of insanity we're going to get with Rock Paper Scissors then I don't know what the hell I'm in for later on. I'm intrigued though, because given the stuff that's happened already, the specificity of the cheating pledge (why does it explicitly require being caught? The enforcement of these pledges is quite obviously omnipresent and can't be reneged so correcting for cheating, known or otherwise, should be trivial in this environment) and the fact that non-humans can use magic, we're obviously in for some "Who can be the dirtiest cheater" type of shenanigans in the near future.
Jex
Member
Oh, and one final thing I forgot to mention about No Game No Life that's a sign of when it was created - the main character is a complete NEET who can't deal with social situations. Just more pandering to the audience by reflecting a more powerful version of themselves back at them.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
All nerd protagonists should be like the girl from Watamote.
He's more of a NEET in name than anything else. He has some social anxiety issues but other than that, he's a godtier conman. I guess this was the author's way of creating some sort of weakness for the MC.
It also does sort of make sense why he's like that. He's sort of like Sherlock Holmes in a few ways.
Tomoko watches NGNL, decides to try and get good at non-video games, studies strategies online for common games, get simulators, later loses to Kii at Checkers.
I can totally see it.
Jex
Member
Eh outside of games you see plenty of times when he acts like a complete NEET and can't deal with being outside (even though he was fine in an earlier episode). It's very inconsistent and the creator only gave him those qualities in an attempt to garner free sympathy from the NEET audience who'll be consuming the story. As you say, sometimes he's completely fine. That's what makes it worse - it's characterisation that exists purely at the whim of the creator rather than as an organic part of the person.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
There are times where using terminology like this is why I don't feel like modern day anime (well LNs really) are written by real people.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
No Game No Life Episode 5
Sora is a man who knows what is truly important, on to warbeasts.
the current conversations being about this, I'd like to point out that from my experience of watching this, while the anime has a fully featured story, it often times feels alot more like a comedy than anything else, in a good way, most of the time even the fanservice doesnt feel like it takes so much away from it since alot of the time its played up for laughs and such, in that respect it feels like it puts comedy first and thats probably for the better, it keeps it from becoming too serious, SAO would put random shameless fanservice in but that really doesnt gel with the rest of the show unlike in no game no life.
I also enjoy the dynamic between the main character and his sister, this could be just me currently watching a bioshock infinite lets play and enjoying the twins who show up and bicker with eachother and such
Sora is a man who knows what is truly important, on to warbeasts.
the current conversations being about this, I'd like to point out that from my experience of watching this, while the anime has a fully featured story, it often times feels alot more like a comedy than anything else, in a good way, most of the time even the fanservice doesnt feel like it takes so much away from it since alot of the time its played up for laughs and such, in that respect it feels like it puts comedy first and thats probably for the better, it keeps it from becoming too serious, SAO would put random shameless fanservice in but that really doesnt gel with the rest of the show unlike in no game no life.
I also enjoy the dynamic between the main character and his sister, this could be just me currently watching a bioshock infinite lets play and enjoying the twins who show up and bicker with eachother and such
That depends, do you consider editors to be real people?
Yea I agree that's an issue. He honestly feels like if he had a few years of proper therapy he would probably have been fine. He understands people and how they think very well. He claims that life is too complex of a game for him but he seems to understand the players down to a tee. It does seem like his NEET thing was added on instead of it being a critical component. but I can see that being a bigger problem down the road.
It's much more of a comedy than Mondaji was. That said, there are definitely some serious elements to it. Mostly due to the MC being insane.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Editors are people who made a horse into a camel
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
There's nothing too inconsistent about his social anxiety, a example I would like to point out is Pat from two best friends, he obviously has no problem interacting with people 1 on 1 or whatever but doesnt like going to conventions and things at all, too many people and it makes him uncomfortable, he also has a psychiatric degree so he would be good at reading human behavior aswell, so far for what I remember he only gets them during large crowds and having to speak with them
Yeah, I thought the whole communication disorder would have a way larger presence in the show, but aside from the inn scene and t-t-to-tokyo, Sora just seemed like a ten dimensional chessmaster who understands the other characters better than they understand themselves.
Alas, it could have been funny and interesting too. Didn't have to be watamote level either.
I really don't like some of "shaming" aura in this discussion, pretty sure even people that enjoy it don't even pretend its some literary goods, they just find it fun..
Do we running some kind of inspection here? Otaku anime should count as other kind of anime.
Monacle-speak can easily be confused for condescension. Or actually is condescension, it's hard to tell which sometimes.
Basileus777
Member
Is NGNL a fad?
Point.
Though GoT is raising eyebrows with its weird rape-as-love style scenes and (to a lesser extent) the whole weird incest thing. But then again it's not like it's depicting it as normal. And that stuff is also largely unconnected to (some of) the fan service... eh. It wasn't super relevent I guess.
I hope you're just being funny
(not that I've watched any anime for a couple of months, but still!)
Izayoi is better than all of them.
Jexhius is just keeping it real.
Yep, but I mean even 2ch hating Mahouka.. so I don't like the generalization certain audience lap everything as long including certain trope and content, most of this thing bombed afterall. you just can't beat boring.
Jex
Member
Shaming implies that a value judgement is being passed. I'm not passing a value judgement on the series for being otaku-bait. That doesn't bother me.
I will, however, pass judgement on it for being loli-incest-bait. That's reprehensible.
You're right, not every generic, otaku-trope filled show sells well.
However, there are plenty of crappy, otaku-trope filled shows that do sell very well on the back of being otaku-bait.
PdotMichael
Banned
NEET /= Hikikomori
Also I don't know how correct the idea is that LNs and anime are only consumed by non-employed young people.
I get it now.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Probably depends on the variety that actually exists.
I don't know why, but I imagine LNs to sort of be like manga, where the actual genre spread is vast as hell, but wouldn't suit well for the current anime industry.
And to be frank, I hope I'm correct on that.
Jex
Member
The show even jokes about the NEET term. They don't appear to have job or go to school either.
Demographic questions aside, the number of "NEET"/Hikikomori" protaganists in anime has increased in recent years, even the guy at the start of Chaika says he hasn't been in work for ages. Creators obviously feel that it's useful to have characters with this trait, for whatever reason, and given the state of the global economy combines with Japan's own problems I imagine that's a safe bet for them to make.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I only know the gif. lol
La Corda fin:
Well, let's go back to female oriented pandering for a moment!
First, I just find it amusing how anime tries to find a way to make music visually interesting. Unless you go full rotoscope or whatever and show the people playing instruments in intricate detail, you basically have to go with visual metaphors. lol
I will say, compared to Kamagami, this ended up being much less pandery. She gets the reverse harem, but the show just ends with her being strong on her own terms. Of course being the figurative goddess of music is probably the same as being infinitely good at games!
Deputy Dangle
Member
Sketchbook Full Colors - 1-7
I'm a bit conflicted about a few things in Sketchbook. There are aspects of it that make me think it could be a really great healing anime, but the more I watch, the more it becomes an ensemble cast comedy. While that's not a bad thing in and of itself, the execution has left something to be desired.
Initially it struck me as a clearly Aria influenced high school slice of life with a similar narrative structure. Even the main character, Sora, is a similarly inquisitive, soft-spoken girl like Akari. But in Sora's case, she has this reserved air about her that gave those initial episodes a unique element. During those episodes, the show also began to reveal each of the various side characters that make up the art class along with the three main girls. I didn't have much of an issue at first, but then it started separating the three girls to focus more on side character antics, which have been much weaker. At the moment, I wish the show would downsize the large cast to its bare essentials because I think it may be stretching itself too thin. A number of them are simply one-note and don't bring anything to the table or are gag characters that fall flat.
Luckily, when it does focus on Sora's introspection or the interactions between the core three or a select few side characters like the cats, I enjoy the show a lot. I really like the upbeat piano pieces that make up a lot of the music too. Its had a few moments of mono no aware that I loved. Even some gags really worked for me like the two scenes above. It's all just very pleasant to watch, but I get the feeling that it could be so much more.
I'm a bit conflicted about a few things in Sketchbook. There are aspects of it that make me think it could be a really great healing anime, but the more I watch, the more it becomes an ensemble cast comedy. While that's not a bad thing in and of itself, the execution has left something to be desired.
Initially it struck me as a clearly Aria influenced high school slice of life with a similar narrative structure. Even the main character, Sora, is a similarly inquisitive, soft-spoken girl like Akari. But in Sora's case, she has this reserved air about her that gave those initial episodes a unique element. During those episodes, the show also began to reveal each of the various side characters that make up the art class along with the three main girls. I didn't have much of an issue at first, but then it started separating the three girls to focus more on side character antics, which have been much weaker. At the moment, I wish the show would downsize the large cast to its bare essentials because I think it may be stretching itself too thin. A number of them are simply one-note and don't bring anything to the table or are gag characters that fall flat.
Luckily, when it does focus on Sora's introspection or the interactions between the core three or a select few side characters like the cats, I enjoy the show a lot. I really like the upbeat piano pieces that make up a lot of the music too. Its had a few moments of mono no aware that I loved. Even some gags really worked for me like the two scenes above. It's all just very pleasant to watch, but I get the feeling that it could be so much more.
Basileus777
Member
I wouldn't lump Chaika in with this. That was more of an attempt at world/character building to show how saboteurs don't have much of a place during peace than some sort of otaku pandering.
Jex
Member
Chaika, you mean the show with the colour-coded collect 'em all loli's, the pet dragon loli, and the 'we're not blood related' brother-sister incest jokes?
As much as I enjoy these shows, I'm not going to let them pass on the shit they pull. I even think No Game No Life is pretty good and it would be a lot better without certain questionable elements.
Basileus777
Member
Those are different issues! I'm not claiming it's free from pandering, I just don't see the unemployment thing as problematic in this case.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Oh, they copped out on that? lol
---
Random image for shiggles, since I was just watching the Ano Hana concert again for Secret Base:
Being a voice actor in Japan is a tough business, guys.
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