Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING

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Season 2 retroactively made Season 1 Korra worse for me. I think it's because Season 1 had her clashing less with people at the end, so I assumed her jerkiness was fading. Then Season 2 comes around and she was more jerky than ever, and I realized that the characterization I assumed had happened really hadn't.

EDIT: wait what what what
 
Toxi said:
Season 2 retroactively made Season 1 Korra worse for me. I think it's because Season 1 had her clashing less with people at the end, so I assumed her jerkiness was fading. Then Season 2 comes around and she was more jerky than ever, and I realized that the characterization I assumed had happened really hadn't.

EDIT: wait what what what
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I was already soured on the series because they had Korra get her powers back magically and then she and Mako are all gaga for one another even after the drama with Bolin and Asami. When I heard the show was picked up for more seasons I thought "Oh, okay. We'll get more interesting character development, and things won't feel as rushed now" and well, I was wrong.
 
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Too many spirit vines.
 
Funny enough, I rewatched the first episode of LoK recently, and was astonished by how polite she was. She respectfully asked Tenzin to train her, but that wouldn't fly. When she left in the middle of the night, she had a heartfelt goodbye to both her parents and Gran-Gran. When she arrived at Rep. City, even though both she and naga were starving, she was courteous to the (very rude) food stand seller and didn't take anything when she didn't have the money to pay for it. She only fished in the lake by accident. And she stopped injustice as she saw it in the streets. She was polite to Lin despite Lin treating her like crap (well, she did give that Water Tribe Diss™, but still). And when Tenzin caught her, she was going to willingly go back to the North Pole out of respect for his authority no matter how much she disagreed with him.

*sigh* She used to be such a nice, if highly destructive, kid.
 
Veelk said:
Funny enough, I rewatched the first episode of LoK recently, and was astonished by how polite she was. She respectfully asked Tenzin to train her, but that wouldn't fly. When she left in the middle of the night, she had a heartfelt goodbye to both her parents and Gran-Gran. When she arrived at Rep. City, even though both she and naga were starving, she was courteous to the (very rude) food stand seller and didn't take anything when she didn't have the money to pay for it. She only fished in the lake by accident. And she stopped injustice as she saw it in the streets. She was polite to Lin despite Lin treating her like crap (well, she did give that Water Tribe Diss™, but still). And when Tenzin caught her, she was going to willingly go back to the North Pole out of respect for his authority no matter how much she disagreed with him.

*sigh* She used to be such a nice, if highly destructive, kid.
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Yeah I agree. Korra in Book 1 was headstrong and stubborn but she was a lot nicer. It's strange how much they changed her in Book 2.
 
So yeah audio commentary

  • Mike and Bryan were worried that fans wouldn’t react emotionally when Korra lost her connection to her past lives, since she never used her connection to her past lives that much in the first place. The co-creators were happy to learn that fans did get emotional. They were also happy to learn that many fans hated them for it.
  • Mike admits that some parts of the finale didn’t make sense from a physical perspective, but they made sense from a spiritual perspective – which is all the more confusing.
  • Bryan admits that the final battle between Korra and UnaVatu was not supposed to make sense. It’s supposed to be symbolic and fun on an emotional level. The battle is symbolic in that it’s a reference to the light battle between Aang and Ozai and the duel between Zuko and Azula.
  • Bryan explains that he has no idea what Jinora did during the Book 2 finale; he left it up to fans to create theories of their own. Bryan’s theory is that Jinora harnessed energy she found in the Spirit World and used it to re-energize or trigger the last sliver of Raava, which allowed her to reveal herself.
    [*]Mike and Bryan tried to make the break up between Mako and Korra as obvious as possible, suggesting that the relationship is officially over. Their exact words were: “Definitive, but very clear break up. Put a button on this one. Put a nail in it.” Mike, Bryan and the writers involved in the commentary truly did their best to stress that Makorra is over.
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More at the link

"Oh yeah, that thing we did? It didn't make any fucking sense. Sorry about that."
 
Jintor said:
So yeah audio commentary



More at the link

"Oh yeah, that thing we did? It didn't make any fucking sense. Sorry about that."
Click to expand...

Wow, talk about a lot of bullshit.

These guys have really been baffling in recent years. My god. I remember them laughing at a fan asking about the anti-bender pro rights movement after Amon, and how it would continue to shape the plot. They likened its lasting effects to just being crazy tin foil hat wearing extremists that have nazi propaganda in their basement. Like really? You set up this really great plot point, something that is a symptom of a society in turmoil, and then just because Amon is proven a fraud, it all just goes away?

As if that makes years of unrest disappear. Clearly people weren't happy with how benders had more power in society (how they were a special class). Yeah, I get that them electing a president was supposed to wrap that plot up. But my point is, these guys just don't seem to give a fuck when it comes to the overall impact a plot has. So seeing this isn't surprising. But ugh. It's pretty dam frustrating how little fucks they give. I would be MORE OKAY if their creative spark just wasn't as good as it once was. But hearing them talk is pretty annoying, as they don't seem to have any respect for their audience or what they are writing.

EDIT: Guess I'm vindicated about Korra and Mako being over. SUCK IT GUYS! :p
 
Due to Book 3 hype, I started my Last Airbender marathon a couple days ago since I actually never watched it before and only kept up with Korra ever since it first aired.
Now I just finished my marathon, I think I developed a stronger attachment to the old cast of characters. I can't fucking wait to see familiar faces/places like Zuko and Ba Sing Se again.
 
Jintor said:
Mike and Bryan were worried that fans wouldn’t react emotionally when Korra lost her connection to her past lives, since she never used her connection to her past lives that much in the first place. The co-creators were happy to learn that fans did get emotional. They were also happy to learn that many fans hated them for it.
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I think that's because the fans remembered that the avatar state is just her channeling all her past lives at once. Without the past lives, there is no such thing as the Avatar State and Korra is severely dis-empowered, which has a lot of relevance on whats going on.

From the wording of what they said though, it seems they think she just lost the ability to talk to her past selves. I hope I'm wrong on this, because they can't have seriously gotten that fundamental an aspect of their own series wrong.

Mike admits that some parts of the finale didn’t make sense from a physical perspective, but they made sense from a spiritual perspective – which is all the more confusing.
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Lets face it, it didn't make sense on any level.

Bryan admits that the final battle between Korra and UnaVatu was not supposed to make sense. It’s supposed to be symbolic and fun on an emotional level. The battle is symbolic in that it’s a reference to the light battle between Aang and Ozai and the duel between Zuko and Azula.
Click to expand...

Uh...what?

The spirituality of Aang's and Ozai's fight was the struggle between, literally, war and peace and the resolve for either. Aang was getting his ass kicked as long as he was not fully resolved to one way or the other. He didn't want to kill Ozai, but thought he had to. Ozai's resolve was solid, completely believing in his full and absolute power and ownership of the world he lives in. When Aang's avatar state got activated, and the surge of his past lives went through him, all the avatars became resolute in ending the matter once and for all....all except Avatar Aang, who could not abide by a decision to take a human life. He went out of the avatar state, and took a stance on a more peaceful route, which allowed him, unaided by the other Avatars to over power Ozai with his own will.

With Zuko and Azula, the symbolism was one of love. Zuko's insecurity, his despair, his entire motivation came from the idea that his father did not love him, and Azula's was that her mother did not love her. But from beginning to end, their roles reversed. Where Zuko learned to appreciate his Uncle's compassion and the forgiveness of the Toph, Sokka, Aang, and Katara, he realized he might never have his father's love, but he did have the love of his new family. Azula started off with the certainty that she had her father, her two mentors, Ty Lee, and Mai, and her servants. She says she didn't believe they cared for her, but this is a lie she told herself. She believed her father loved her. He didn't. That Mai and Ty Lee wouldn't betray her for anything. They did. Her paranoia of loss was so rampant that she pushed away her mentors and the Dai Li lest they abandon her too. When Zuko and Azula fought, she lost because she was alone, while Zuko had both the teachings of his Uncle and the Avatar (via the Sun Warriors) as well as the back up of his friends like Katara, who hated him more than any other member of the Gaang. Even though Azula defeated him physically, she still lost because he had people who loved him and she didn't.

How in the hell does Korra vs UnaVatu relate to ANY of that?

Bryan explains that he has no idea what Jinora did during the Book 2 finale; he left it up to fans to create theories of their own. Bryan’s theory is that Jinora harnessed energy she found in the Spirit World and used it to re-energize or trigger the last sliver of Raava, which allowed her to reveal herself.
Click to expand...

ughabgfsdbbugfdasuagrfdsuihn

Mike and Bryan tried to make the break up between Mako and Korra as obvious as possible, suggesting that the relationship is officially over. Their exact words were: “Definitive, but very clear break up. Put a button on this one. Put a nail in it.” Mike, Bryan and the writers involved in the commentary truly did their best to stress that Makorra is over.
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THEN WHY ARE THEY STILL HANGING OUT?!
 
I really like that they have no idea what JInorra did even. Like, guys, it's your fucking deus ex machina and you don't even know what happened, how are the viewers supposed to come to decent conclusions?
 
Veelk said:
THEN WHY ARE THEY STILL HANGING OUT?!
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I don't mind them hanging out. But I just wish these characters would show emotion. I said this earlier, but Asami legitimately showed ZERO emotion after having her boyfriend basically cheat on her with one of her only friends and dump her to be with said friend. So if they are going to continue to hang out, at least show us some emotion (like them being a little awkward at first and easing back into it). My suggestion of Asami + Bolin spending time together in Book 2 would have made sense if these characters had an ounce of emotion/human characteristics to them.

But after reading that, clearly these guys don't give a fuck about plot progression or the impact of a story beyond its self contained arc. They are pretty much writing action without consequence. They've become the writers of Dexter.
 
How you gonna have a whole series of posts about your writing process and approach to fleshing out your series and then say some nonsense like the Jinora bit? Why?
 
Trey said:
How you gonna have a whole series of posts about your writing process and approach to fleshing out your series and then say some nonsense like the Jinora bit? Why?
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What's funny is, they really don't get it. They talk about wanting the fight to just be epic like Zuko vs Azula. That fight WAS EPIC, because of the characters and everything they brought to it. The tension and baggage between Azula, Zuko and their family. The sad thing is, even on an art/spectacle level nothing in Korra was as awesome as that.

Whoever said they have George Lucas syndrome is right on the money. Wow.
 
Mako and Korra being officially over is the only good thing about that audio commentary.

I am disappointed in you, Mike and Bryan.

No soup for you.
 
Azula said:
Wow, talk about a lot of bullshit.

These guys have really been baffling in recent years. My god. I remember them laughing at a fan asking about the anti-bender pro rights movement after Amon, and how it would continue to shape the plot. They likened its lasting effects to just being crazy tin foil hat wearing extremists that have nazi propaganda in their basement. Like really? You set up this really great plot point, something that is a symptom of a society in turmoil, and then just because Amon is proven a fraud, it all just goes away?

As if that makes years of unrest disappear. Clearly people weren't happy with how benders had more power in society (how they were a special class). Yeah, I get that them electing a president was supposed to wrap that plot up. But my point is, these guys just don't seem to give a fuck when it comes to the overall impact a plot has. So seeing this isn't surprising. But ugh. It's pretty dam frustrating how little fucks they give. I would be MORE OKAY if their creative spark just wasn't as good as it once was. But hearing them talk is pretty annoying, as they don't seem to have any respect for their audience or what they are writing.
Click to expand...

I mentioned this in one of my write ups for Book 1. You make a great point assuming that the equalist agenda is legitimate, but you have to remember that other than that single crime scene in the first episode, as well as anecdotal accounts of a murderous firebender, we have no evidence that the benders of the city held unfair power. The only direct evidence we see is Tarrlok going power mad, but that was a response to the equalists bombing the probending arena and obviously not the norm. I think what they are trying to get at is that the equalist cause isn't legtiimate and that those people were just the equivalent of far right wing nuts having their prejudices encouraged. The problem with that is that it still makes mockery of the equalist cause, but in a different, maybe even worse way. They never had a point to begin with. They were just an angry mob without a cause...and that was apparently all it took to overthrow the oh so powerful benders in the entire city. Not only does this make all the participating equalist look like complete idiots, but also everyone in Republic City for somehow not being able to handle these morons from the start.

And you still are right. People like this wouldn't just stop because amon is exposed. They would just have to take the other permanent solution of removing bending powers: killing benders. I know that's may be too extreme for Nick, but dammit, you can't make up an organization like this and then wave them away!

Azula said:
I don't mind them hanging out. But I just wish these characters would show emotion. I said this earlier, but Asami legitimately showed ZERO emotion after having her boyfriend basically cheat on her with one of her only friends and dump her to be with said friend. So if they are going to continue to hang out, at least show us some emotion (like them being a little awkward at first and easing back into it). My suggestion of Asami + Bolin spending time together in Book 2 would have made sense if these characters had an ounce of emotion/human characteristics to them.

But after reading that, clearly these guys don't give a fuck about plot progression or the impact of a story beyond its self contained arc. They are pretty much writing action without consequence. They've become the writers of Dexter.
Click to expand...

This is less plot progression and more character development, which even they have to abide by. They have to stick to what they do here (like Korra and Mako breaking up) just out of necessity but....I honestly cannot think of a more natural consequence of their relationship than them never wanting to see each other again. Both of them have been nothing but awful to each other. Neither of them have any need for each other. Tell me a scenerio where there two characters would want to be together using only the elements presented within the Korra universe, because I honestly don't get it.
 
Veelk said:
I mentioned this in one of my write ups for Book 1. You make a great point assuming that the equalist agenda is legitimate, but you have to remember that other than that single crime scene in the first episode, as well as anecdotal accounts of a murderous firebender, we have no evidence that the benders of the city held unfair power. The only direct evidence we see is Tarrlok going power mad, but that was a response to the equalists bombing the probending arena and obviously not the norm. I think what they are trying to get at is that the equalist cause isn't legtiimate and that those people were just the equivalent of far right wing nuts having their prejudices encouraged. The problem with that is that it still makes mockery of the equalist cause, but in a different, maybe even worse way. They never had a point to begin with. They were just an angry mob without a cause...and that was apparently all it took to overthrow the oh so powerful benders in the entire city. Not only does this make all the participating equalist look like complete idiots, but also everyone in Republic City for somehow not being able to handle these morons from the start.

And you still are right. People like this wouldn't just stop because amon is exposed. They would just have to take the other permanent solution of removing bending powers: killing benders. I know that's may be too extreme for Nick, but dammit, you can't make up an organization like this and then wave them away!



This is less plot progression and more character development, which even they have to abide by. They have to stick to what they do here (like Korra and Mako breaking up) just out of necessity but....I honestly cannot think of a more natural consequence of their relationship than them never wanting to see each other again. Both of them have been nothing but awful to each other. Neither of them have any need for each other. Tell me a scenerio where there two characters would want to be together using only the elements presented within the Korra universe, because I honestly don't get it.
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Sure. But still, I see a pattern here. Set up a plot - plot ends. No consequences to said plot. No after effects. So while yeah, it's a lack of character development specifically, it seems like these guys are writing in a bubble. They have one off stories they want to tell, and then once it's over they reboot without considering the effects of the plot.

EDIT: I also don't disagree with your points on the anti-bending movement. But I still don't like how they laugh off the question. As if it was unreasonable for a fan to expect a plot to have a lasting effect on the world/story. To me, it speaks volumes of their mindset.

I used to think these guys were just hacks, or people that lost their creativity. But they kind of seem like assholes that have no respect for their show or audience. And that is really disappointing to me. Because despite my complaints with Korra, I still love this overall world. I respect what they do (even if I find it flawed). So it's really sad to see them have this mind of mind set and mentality towards their writing.
 
Azula said:
Sure. But still, I see a pattern here. Set up a plot - plot ends. No consequences to said plot. No after effects. So while yeah, it's a lack of character development specifically, it seems like these guys are writing in a bubble. They have one off stories they want to tell, and then once it's over they reboot without considering the effects of the plot.
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Right, but they....can't do that. It just now how a narrative works. It's like an astrophysicist trying to destroy energy. The universe just doesn't operate in those terms. They can try, but only to their loss. To some extent, they acknowledge that by having certain events bleed over into the new season (Korra's avatar powers, the Makorra breakup), but they refuse to acknowledge larger events or just have them in the background (like the governmental shift). And it just really hurts their story.

EDIT: I also don't disagree with your points on the anti-bending movement. But I still don't like how they laugh off the question. As if it was unreasonable for a fan to expect a plot to have a lasting effect on the world/story. To me, it speaks volumes of their mindset.

I used to think these guys were just hacks, or people that lost their creativity. But they kind of seem like assholes that have no respect for their show or audience. And that is really disappointing to me. Because despite my complaints with Korra, I still love this overall world. I respect what they do (even if I find it flawed). So it's really sad to see them have this mind of mind set and mentality towards their writing.
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Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just pointing out that your argument was under the assumption that the equalist had legitimate cause. While that's easy to imagine, the show doesn't support it, but that hurts the narrative even more despite it. I was just offering another perspective that might be how the writers see things, and it still sucks.

And yeah, that's just rude. I am beginning to seriously wonder how the hell TLA happened at this point.
 
Planning to check the series out soon. After Platinum's announcement today, I immediately wanted to learn more. I'm guessing it's best to watch The Last Airbender first, so I'll start there if for no other reason than to gather a bit of context before jumping into Legend of Korra. Hopefully I can catch up with you guys before Book 3's end. :-) (Sorry Legend of Korra fans. I know you've probably been hearing this all day from newcomers!)
 
Jintor said:
So yeah audio commentary



More at the link

"Oh yeah, that thing we did? It didn't make any fucking sense. Sorry about that."
Click to expand...

What the hell? Have they lost their minds? They didn't even know wtf happened in the finale?

Are these the same guys who wrote ATLA? Or did Aaron Ehasz or whatever his name is do the heavy lifting? I'm guessing the former based on those inconceivable comments...

I thought season 2 must have been a fluke, but for them to outright say they have no idea what they're doing is crazy.
 
Veelk said:
And yeah, that's just rude. I am beginning to seriously wonder how the hell TLA happened at this point.
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Reading The Art of the Animated Series or watching the documentary that was posted earlier, you can see the passion, talent, and creativity on hand during the creation of ATLA. I'm sure there's plenty of that on hand during the making of TLOK, too, but there's also this utter disregard for the rules of good storytelling. You see this to an extent with the ATLA continuation comics, as well. I was flipping through the hardcover edition of The Search a few weeks ago, which includes annotations from Bryan and Mike, and they were talking about how they deliberately put in lots of references to the original story because it made everything feel more "connected" and real. It's like, no, constant callbacks make the world feel smaller and faker. I had hoped everyone would realize that after the Star Wars prequels, but clearly that hasn't happened. That's not even a particularly egregious example from what this franchise has turned out since 2012.
 
BTW, I just rewatched the Korra vs UnaVatu fight just to make sure of something. You guys want to know the ultimate irony of that statement?

It DOES make sense on a physical level. Korra just did what she always does.

She beat the shit out of the problem until it was't a problem anymore. Literally, she wrestled the evil giant man kite and then performed that spiral technique to disintegrate him. She, bafflingly says "Go in peace", but that doesn't change the fact that all she did was kill the mofo.

How does that not make sense "physically"?
 
Veelk said:
BTW, I just rewatched the Korra vs UnaVatu fight just to make sure of something. You guys want to know the ultimate irony of that statement?

It DOES make sense on a physical level. Korra just did what she always does.

She beat the shit out of the problem until it was't a problem anymore. Literally, she wrestled the evil giant man kite and then performed that spiral technique to disintegrate him. She, bafflingly says "Go in peace", but that doesn't change the fact that all she did was kill the mofo.

How does that not make sense "physically"?
Click to expand...

After his comments above, do you really need to ask? They obviously have no clue as to what they're doing anymore lol.
 
Veelk said:
BTW, I just rewatched the Korra vs UnaVatu fight just to make sure of something. You guys want to know the ultimate irony of that statement?

It DOES make sense on a physical level. Korra just did what she always does.

She beat the shit out of the problem until it was't a problem anymore. Literally, she wrestled the evil giant man kite and then performed that spiral technique to disintegrate him. She, bafflingly says "Go in peace", but that doesn't change the fact that all she did was kill the mofo.

How does that not make sense "physically"?
Click to expand...

Oi, but I love how he's so focused on the spectacle. I didn't find it all that impressive. I thought the fight went on too long and had too many (Korra is about to win..nope moments). Was pretty lame (in terms of flow).
 
Love Deterrence said:
Planning to check the series out soon. After Platinum's announcement today, I immediately wanted to learn more. I'm guessing it's best to watch The Last Airbender first, so I'll start there if for no other reason than to gather a bit of context before jumping into Legend of Korra. Hopefully I can catch up with you guys before Book 3's end. :-) (Sorry Legend of Korra fans. I know you've probably been hearing this all day from newcomers!)
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Most people in this thread would reccomend Avatar The Last Airbender over The Legend of Korra :lol
Be sure to make a LTTP thread with Impressions as you watch it. Would love to hear what you think. Would be cool to see you chronicle it as you watch it :P
 
mako and korra will get back together

bookmark me

it may not be this book, but they will be a couple by the time the series ends

BOOKMARK ME
 
Hey Azula, Jintor didn't quote the entirety of the article. And they sort of address the Equalist issue you have, but not really.

Mike and Bryan understand the fans’ anger towards them for dropping the Equalist Regime in Book 2. Unfortunately, they were forced to progress the story in Book 2 so the aftermath of the Equalist Regime didn’t make it into the script.
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There is also....

Had Book 1 been the only season of The Legend of Korra, Mike and Bryan had an alternate ending scene prepared. In the alternate ending, Asami leaves with General Iroh II and joins the United Forces.
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Asami's story is the one thing they did right in season 1. What the hell difference would that have made in relation to her father going nuts? Why would she do this? She hasn't shown any military interest in the series? I hope they aren't implying it would have been just because of Iroh.

Korra’s interrogation of Judge Hotah in Civil Wars – Part 2 was inspired by Fox’s television series 24
Click to expand...

I like 24 well enough, but what makes them think it's a good idea to put a torture interrogation in a kids show?

Lou and Gong’s names were switched at some point during production, and Mike and Bryan decided to stick with it.
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I cannot imagine who on earth cares. If anything, all it does is show how much of a master class they are in characterization when even the producers couldn't be bothered to keep track of these idiots.

Mike and Bryan explain that by the end of a season, there are too many introduced characters to include them all in the final battle. That’s one of the reasons why Asami was sent off before the final battle against UnaVatu. This issue will persist in the final battle of Book 3 as well.
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Guess we have another cluttered finale to look forward to. Hopefully they'll leave out Mako this time.

Mike and Bryan admit that production on Book 2 was very tough. They jokingly call it the worst experience ever. But they say Book 3 is going to be awesome.
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And if it were the opposite, I'm sure they'd be perfectly honest and tell is so.

Mike and Bryan acknowledge the hate on Korra during the first half of the season. While they understand the hate, they explain that they needed to take her character through arcs. There had to be highs and lows in order for her character to undergo development.
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This is the more meaningful commentary that shows how they no longer understand narrative. I cannot think of a single character in TLA that was disliked for more than an episode or two before showing positive qualities. Sokka was a bit of a douche in the first episode, but he showed good qualities then too, and dropped the sexism and got some combat skills as close as the 3rd episode. Zuko, who was the antagonist and easiest to hate, showed good qualities early on too. If there was any period where Zuko was hated, it was during the time between his abandonment of the Gaang and his desertion of the Fire Nation, and that was still narratively well written where many fans felt sympathy for him plight. Who else? Toph was a bit of a prick at first, but again, endeared herself fast enough.

Yeah, no one had any kind of arc of hatred and still wound up being the most endearing cast of characters in cartoon history. The 'hatred' of Korra stems from the writing. A situation is artificially produced because the writers needed an excuse to paint Tenzin as in the wrong, so she ditches him, allies with the mustache twirling villain, and is horrible to her boyfriend, and lacks any moments of heartfelt appreciation moments with either Asami or Bolin because they need to spend time on boring Water Tribe politics and her Jack Bauer interrogation techniques.
 
Just bought the entire series on Xbox Video (Original series and Korra). Going to start my rewatch (and first watch through of S2 Korra) then buy a Season pass for S3 once the first episode goes up. The Platinum Korra game and S3 have gotten me super hyped.

How many total seasons are there going to be of Korra? 3 or 4?
 
MarkusRJR said:
Just bought the entire series on Xbox Video (Original series and Korra). Going to start my rewatch (and first watch through of S2 Korra) then buy a Season pass for S3 once the first episode goes up. The Platinum Korra game and S3 have gotten me super hyped.

How many total seasons are there going to be of Korra? 3 or 4?
Click to expand...

4
 
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