blitzcloud
Banned
Like it or not they were "avenging" the same shared prophet, and this is why the moderate muslim people need to VOICE IT. as we say in spanish "el que calla otorga", which would translate roughly to "silence gives consent".
Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Like it or not they were "avenging" the same shared prophet, and this is why the moderate muslim people need to VOICE IT. as we say in spanish "el que calla otorga", which would translate roughly to "silence gives consent".
As I said, look at the responses in this thread. Most are reasonable concern and information, however there are lots and lots of posts agressive not only against the terrorists but all muslims. The situation at hand is terrible should be the focus, but it is a legit concern to worry what this will do to the people and what they will do to muslims.
I don't think it's such a bad idea to wish for more innocents to not die.
Islam is not a race. Never has been and never will be.
There is a time to call out racism and there is a time to simply be humble and shut the fuck up.
BrassDragon
Member
Dutch satire pic just went up, good.
The caption is 'immortal'.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Charb is the head of the newspaper and Cabu is their cartoonist. They're very famous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabu
Interceptor
Banned
Griffevent
Member
Indeed, but that's not the point here. And whatever you say they won't change opinion. This kind of comments become seriously tiring, it derails the discussion as much as the opinions you try to fight.
And I'm sure you're gathering statistical data that shows that moderate Muslims are not protesting or voicing their disdain towards said terrorists.
HaterIsHating
Member
Religion is a choice, not a race.
When was I talking about Islam?
Good that you are bringing Islam up however, it might be revelant to this shooting.
blitzcloud
Banned
Not yet, I'm simply saying this is what I hope that happens. I hope for human mobs walking on the streets calling these murderers for what they are, murderers hiding behind myopic interpretations of their faith.
ComputerMKII
Banned
The RAID (special forces) has reportedly been deployed in the Seine-Saint-Denis area: http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...2-en-direct-Charlie-Hebdo-Paris-fusillade.php
I will call out racism while being humble then, I guess.
Miles Quaritch
Member
To be clear,
Refusing to paint an entire group with the same brush is being a terrorist sympathiser?
The actions and beliefs of a few represent those of everyone in that group?
Marauder Shields
Member
Have you read the Quran? It's honestly not hard to see why Islamic extremism is so prevalent once you've read the book. The book has such an us vs them mentality to it in regards to non-believers. Hadith's also don't help in this matter.
You're not worth the effort. Bye.
Can you give an example of the racism that you're calling out?
Honey Bunny
Member
I think he is smart enough to know that. What he is proposing would be for the benefit of Europe as a whole, not for himself.
Stopping radicalization entirely is impossible I think. I also hope they catch these guys soon.
I saw that video of the cop getting shot and that was terrifying.
People can't give into fear. It's what these nutters want. They want more people to be isolated from the public, so they can warp and change their views to suit them
Arrowgigantic
Member
Similarly, there is a time to be bigot and that time is called never.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Some people are lucky I don't have a baseball bat...
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Spanish media group PRISA has rushed its employees outside after a suspicious package was found at their offices in Madrid.
I bet it's a false alarm, but better safe than sorry.
I bet it's a false alarm, but better safe than sorry.
HaterIsHating
Member
This will have an impact on all elections in Europe, no question.
Doesn't help when the media gives the extremists a megaphone to drown out the moderates. If Islam were as violent a religion as some people believe, you'd expect to not even be able to cross the street in even the smallest of towns without being gunned down by members of on of the most popular religions on the planet. The violent minority is trying to frame the religion to fit their twisted interpretation, and we're helping them do it.
The bigots are the terrorists who just shot the staff of a satirical paper.
Yep.
I agree, at some point the majority of european citizens will turn on muslims if they don't start to call out these acts on a huge basis. Hearing that islamic states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar financing ISIS won't help either.
Alright so there seems to be some confusion for some people in this thread that islam, in some way, encourages these atrocities more so than other crazed ideologies. While there are verses in the Koran that could be interpreted in such a way as to justify stupid and barbaric shit like this, there are also verses in the Bible (Both the old, and new testament) that can and have been used to justify vile shit.
The problem, then, lies not with the source material, but the interpretation of that material by those who have undue influence over the followers. Islam isn't any more violent or extreme than the other Abrahamic religions, this is a regional political problem that can be solved through integration and acceptance, not further radicalization by cultural segregation or castigation.
The problem, then, lies not with the source material, but the interpretation of that material by those who have undue influence over the followers. Islam isn't any more violent or extreme than the other Abrahamic religions, this is a regional political problem that can be solved through integration and acceptance, not further radicalization by cultural segregation or castigation.
I think the bigger bigots are those that murder people over a fucking drawing.
I already stated in an earlier post in the thread that this is a monstrous ideology and my thoughts are with the families of those murdered by these cunts. I don't understand why you'd take issue with anything else in my post. Free speech needs to be protected. The fact that these cartoonists were killed for upholding the values of secularism and free speech only strengthens my opinion that this ideology is the most dangerous military threat europe has faced in my lifetime. Don't tar all muslims with this extreme twisting of islam.
Lets not pretend that one of the aims of the attackers isn't to instil fear in french people against their muslims neighbours. Otherwise your sticking your head in the sand. They want segregation and division. The vast majority of muslims abhor these attacks and to prevent young muslims from becoming drawn to this horrible ideology we need to foster solidarity and community. To understand is not to condone. My primary thoughts are with the victims and the values that france has held so dear for so long but we must keep our muslim brothers and sisters on our side and stand with them, just as we stand with all of france. Concern troliing? Christ give that shit a break will you, lets try to keep the discussion civil.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Prisa isn't satire though. They do el País, no?
El jueves would be the spanish equivalent right?
Some more details in this page:
* Terrorists apparently had the wrong adress, and first went to the wrong building before getting redirected to the correct one (shows that they probably are not that well organized)
* Charb was being protected by a policeman, because of the previous events. This policeman couldn't do anything, and was shot first.
:/
You have to choose you're fights, I guess.
You can call out bigots (not those bigots of course
Or you can call out murderers.
-MD-
Member
ComputerMKII
Banned
Dutch satire pic just went up, good.
I'm sure the victims would have like this one
:'(
i agree with this sentiment.
of course it shouldn't be necessary for muslims who don't condone terrorism to speak up and distance themselves because they shouldn't be lumped together with fanatic muslim subgroups.
Sure, in a perfect world they shouldn't. But i don't think we live in a perfect world, seeing as there's people who just gun others down because of caricatures.
I think it's a false sense of pride saying "i shouldn't have to distance myself from this, it should be obvious to anyone that not all muslims are the same".
However, if 99% of muslims (those who don't condone these gruesome acts), stay silent because they feel like they shouldn't need to speak up, the only ones receiving any media attention will be the extreme 1%.
Sometimes, even if it was the other kid who started it, and you feel like you have nothing to apologize for, it's best to just shake hands and apologize. It doesn't imply admission of being at fault.
Considering that there's 1.6 billion Muslim in the world, I'm sure that if they were hell bent on killing everyone, you'd have much much much more atrocities like the one committed today.
Regardless, what happened is horrible. Fuck this world we're living in.
Thomasorus
Member
If you are wondering what is Charlie Hebdo and what type of publication they do, read this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-15551998
Arrowgigantic
Member
Have you read any other religious text besides the Quran? It's no different in this regard. The very first commandment in the Old Testament is "No other gods should be worshiped"
And then you add in that its "holy" on top of that.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Investigators are officially calling for witnesses.
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