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[MikeyB]

From a rhetorical standpoint, responding to this shooting with "not all muslims are bad/I hope they will be okay" is a serious mistake.

This is fresh news. Many people died. They need to be mourned. The salient abstract issues are the right to free speech and how these secular rights interact with extreme religious beliefs. This should be plainly clear to anyone observing this.

Turning it into "don't persecute Muslims" not only draws more attention to whatever religious nonsense these whackos happened to believe but also makes the speaker appear callous and self-centered. If the speaker is muslim, it places their religion above the other more important issues (which is arguably the kind of thinking that lets jerks think they're above the law).

Responding to any tragedy with "it's not my fault" is a terrible strategy.

 

[chadskin]

AFP: #BREAKING Arab League and top Muslim body condemn Paris attack

.

 

[jchap]

The fact that these guys are still at large blows my mind. Say what you want about the police militarization in the US but they would never make it this far here.

 

[TheContact]

Alright so there seems to be some confusion for some people in this thread that islam, in some way, encourages these atrocities more so than other crazed ideologies. While there are verses in the Koran that could be interpreted in such a way as to justify stupid and barbaric shit like this, there are also verses in the Bible (Both the old, and new testament) that can and have been used to justify vile shit.

The problem, then, lies not with the source material, but the interpretation of that material by those who have undue influence over the followers. Islam isn't any more violent or extreme than the other Abrahamic religions, this is a regional political problem that can be solved through integration and acceptance, not further radicalization by cultural segregation or castigation.

The problem is that there's a clause in the Koran which states anything written after is canon. I.e if the Koran says to love your neighbor but then a later verse says to kill Jews, the latter is canon. The bible doesn't have anything like this so its left open to interpretation whereas with the Koran, it's one reason fanatics and radicals are bred from this. Because they truly believe they're following the Koran.

Really comes down to Monammad in Mecca vs Medina. Lot of interesting history there.

 

[maniac-kun]

Have you read any other religious text besides the Quran? It's no different in this regard. The very first commandment in the Old Testament is "No other gods should be worshiped"

Dosnt say to kill those who dont.

 

[Kiraly]

The fact that these guys are still at large blows my mind. Say what you want about the police militarization in the US but they would never make it this far here.

Just like with this guy eh?

 

[GIANKRATOS]

This is horrible.

 

[Shito]

From a rhetorical standpoint, responding to this shooting with "not all muslims are bad/I hope they will be okay" is a serious mistake.

This is fresh news. Many people died. They need to be mourned. The salient abstract issues are the right to free speech and how these secular rights interact with extreme religious beliefs. This should be plainly clear to anyone observing this.

Turning it into "don't persecute Muslims" not only draws more attention to whatever religious nonsense these whackos happened to believe but also makes the speaker appear callous and self-centered. If the speaker is muslim, it places their religion above the other more important issues (which is arguably the kind of thinking that lets jerks think they're above the law).

Responding to any tragedy with "it's not my fault" is a terrible strategy.

I completely agree with this post, and will keep my participation to this thread to this.

 

[Hedrush]

Watching the coverage on sky news and them murdering that cop on the sidewalk. It's utterly deplorable what they have done. Sky are reporting it as an execution, but it's just cold blooded murder.

 

[Alpende]

Just like with this guy eh?

I was thinking the same thing. It took them a while before they got him.

 

[Mesousa]

People can't give into fear. It's what these nutters want. They want more people to be isolated from the public, so they can warp and change their views to suit them

Exactly.

When North African, and other Muslim groups, are accepted in France it becomes infinitely harder to radicalize them. France has done a piss poor job in making people feel french.

There was a story on CNN a few years ago about how Benoît Assou-Ekotto, a french footballer now living in England, states how different it is there compared to France. He said in England a kid born there, no matter their color, is English and feels a part of their country, and France there was always a point in people making sure you knew you were not from there....and this was coming from a man raised by a French mother so you can just imagine what kids raised by immigrants/ethnic minorities feel like.

 

[Funky Papa]

Prisa isn't satire though. They do el País, no?

They are pretty massive. The staffers of El País, Cinco Días and the Spanish edition of The Huffington Post had to leave the building.

El jueves would be the spanish equivalent right?

Right. Although Mongolia (much more political and with an actual journalistic angle) has been making some serious waves lately.

 

[maniac-kun]

Last time I was feeling like this was 9/11/01.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Just like with this guy eh?

Exactly

 

[Interceptor]

Some people are lucky I don't have a baseball bat...

But I was told not a single muslim would support this. I was told only the one committing violence believes in it . Wasnt there supposed to be billions of quiet and peace loving individuals? Let's see when they start celebrating on the streets like on 9/11.

 

[Bedlam]

The problem, then, lies not with the source material, but the interpretation of that material by those who have undue influence over the followers. Islam isn't any more violent or extreme than the other Abrahamic religions, this is a regional political problem that can be solved through integration and acceptance, not further radicalization by cultural segregation or castigation.

Lets not pretend that one of the aims of the attackers isn't to instil fear in french people against their muslims neighbours. Otherwise your sticking your head in the sand. They want segregation and division. The vast majority of muslims abhor these attacks and to prevent young muslims from becoming drawn to this horrible ideology we need to foster solidarity and community. To understand is not to condone. My primary thoughts are with the victims and the values that france has held so dear for so long but we must keep our muslim brothers and sisters on our side and stand with them, just as we stand with all of france.

.

Well said.

 

[ivysaur12]

Fucking horrendous

It is going to get tough for Muslims in Europe for some time now, specially with Streisand effect in motion regarding the satirical material.

It will be very hard for all Muslims across Europe in the foreseeable future, though not like it was necessarily easy for them before.

 

[HabeeNo]

RIP

 

[Archer]

The fact that these guys are still at large blows my mind. Say what you want about the police militarization in the US but they would never make it this far here.

You think so?

I bet they could go dark if they wanted to and get away in north america.

And, I'd rather live there in Paris than the police state that the US is becoming. But that may now change.

 

[BaronLundi]

God ...Tronchet died too?

 

[Arrowgigantic]

The bigots are the terrorists who just shot the staff of a satirical paper.

So you admit there's little difference between them and the people who think all muslims are like that.

 

[dave is ok]

Just like with this guy, eh?

You just posted a mugshot photo

 

[HK-47]

Have you read any other religious text besides the Quran? It's no different in this regard. The very first commandment in the Old Testament is "No other gods should be worshiped"

Which is why Christianity had to be defanged and restrained (and it still causes problems). Also I wonder how true this is when applied to buddhism or hinduism.

 

[Interfectum]

Have you read any other religious text besides the Quran? It's no different in this regard. The very first commandment in the Old Testament is "No other gods should be worshiped"

Old Testament

 

[Gustav]

But I was told not a single muslim would support this. I was told only the one committing violence believes in it . Wasnt there supposed to be billions of quiet and peace loving individuals? Let's see when they start celebrating on the streets like on 9/11.

Please link to where you were told this.

 

[Hedrush]

According to survivors, the attackers specifically asked who were the four lead cartoonists Charb, Cabu, Tignous and Wolinski and executed them.

 

[TheContact]

Old Testament

The basis of the biggest religions in the world..

 

[SkylineRKR]

Have you read any other religious text besides the Quran? It's no different in this regard. The very first commandment in the Old Testament is "No other gods should be worshiped"

Indeed. Bible isn't much different. Its the people and how they interpret it nowadays. I think both are old fashioned in their way of thinking about females for example.

 

[BrassDragon]

If it were ex-IS fighters I predict there will be laws pretty soon which ban people from returning to Europe if there's enough proof they spent time in Syria.

This is already happening in several countries - they're removing passports/nationalities. But many have multiple nationalities and you can travel far across the European mainlaind without encountering a checkpoint.

 

[Xando]

Last time I was feeling like this was 9/11/01.

It's even worse because it's even closer to were i live (Germany) now. French are pretty much the same as we germans. It could basically been on german soil.

 

[blitzcloud]

The basis of the biggest religions in the world..

Christianity begins with christ though, new Testament. I think the only link between both of them would be the appointment of a Messiah.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

But I was told not a single muslim would support this.

Were you?

Were you?

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

You can't do that in the UK. It is against a persons human rights most of the time....

We need to differentiate here most of these terrorist attacks are conducted by people who appear as scholars and is held with high praise among Muslim communities yet they have a hidden agenda.

Most Islamic countries are prosecuting all the scholars that have a hand that resulted in ISIS and Saudi Kingdom stopped many of them after having evidence against them.
The UAE had a list of organization some of which are in Europe and America that are associated with Terrorism either by money or ideologies.

Muslim countries knows the difference between Radicslist speech or a moderate speech, it's the time to involve the moderates countries in pointing out who is who with evidence otherwise things will get out of hand.

 

[marrec]

The problem is that there's a clause in the Koran which states anything written after is canon. I.e if the Koran says to love your neighbor but then a later verse says to kill Jews, the latter is canon. The bible doesn't have anything like this so its left open to interpretation whereas with the Koran, it's one reason fanatics and radicals are bred from this. Because they truly believe they're following the Koran.

The problem isn't that the truly believe the verses, there are plenty of Jewish and Christian extremists who truly believe their more violent verses. The problem is the political situations in countries that allow these extremists to breed. ISIS didn't spring forth from a vacuum because of the Koran but was slowly allowed to fester and gain strength through multiple political and military mistakes from countries in the area and around the world (IE, China, Russia, US)

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Fucking shit. Extremists on the one side acting out will give fuel to the extremists on the other side.

 

[marrec]

Christianity begins with christ though, new Testament.

As a former devout christian I can tell you that the Old Testament isn't meant to be ignored in Christianity but it is meant to be the basis on which Christianity is built.

 

[Bedlam]

But I was told not a single muslim would support this. I was told only the one committing violence believes in it . Wasnt there supposed to be billions of quiet and peace loving individuals? Let's see when they start celebrating on the streets like on 9/11.

No you weren't. Gross exaggerrations (/lies) won't help to prove your point. Do you see billions of muslims celebrating on the streets on 9/11? No? Well then, obviously you're wrong.

That's the kind of thinking that actually fuels these conflicts.

 

[Scuderia]

This is already happening in several countries - they're removing passports/nationalities. But many have multiple nationalities and you can travel far across the European mainlaind without encountering a checkpoint.

This, i drove from France to Romania back in October and only had to stop at one border (Romania)

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Old Testament

Which is quoted daily by Jews and Christians of all sects. What's your point?

 

[Pacbois]

God ...Tronchet died too?

Only a rumour, not confirmed.

 

[maquiladora]

I was amazed when I saw this :

According to this poll, 27% of French citizens aged 18-24 surveyed have a positive opinion of ISIS.

 

[SniperHunter]

Can we please stop Muslim vs West debate and concentrate on updates?

 

[DarkTom]

I'm so sad and shocked right now. Not really able to work...

 

[Alx]

God ...Tronchet died too?

What ? It keeps getting worse. I didn't even know he was at Charlie (granted, I don't read it)

 

[HK-47]

Christianity begins with christ though, new Testament.

Dont act like the Old Testament hasnt been a super influential part of the religion. In fact it seems like the teachings of the new testament have often played second fiddle to the good old fire and brimstone of the Old Testament in Christianity.

 

[cyberheater]

I do wonder who funds these fuckers, where they get their guns and ammunition and how we can stop the suppliers of these things at the source.

 

[Pacbois]

What ? It keeps getting worse. I didn't even know he was at Charlie (granted, I don't read it)

He's alive apparently https://twitter.com/Klaire/status/552829660560904194

 

[blitzcloud]

As a former devout christian I can tell you that the Old Testament isn't meant to be ignored in Christianity but it is meant to be the basis on which Christianity is built.

Yeah but the god isn't anywhere close. Old testament is all about a raging punishing good. Thank god he took a chill pill on the New Testament and let Jesus do the talk. I know it isn't meant to be ignored, and it's what most of the nutjob christians use to condemn people to hell, despite not being able to condemn others per Jesus sayings. I mean like those condemning gay people as sinful and all that.

 

[params7]

Fucking shit. Extremists on the one side acting out will give fuel to the extremists on the other side.

Moderates should respond by simply ignoring their piss fest.

 

[Sun Bather]

Just like with this guy eh?

Not really the same situation. One is two armed people shootings, the other is two people hiding in public, dropping a bomb in a bag somewhere and being long gone by the time the bomb went off. But what is the point of this discussion right now anyway.