Support NeoGAF

[Betty]

To be fair, if this tragedy teach us something is that we should laugh more and get angry less

Certain people need to laugh more and get angry less, absolutely. I'm in no danger of killing a single soul for anything anytime ever.

 

[marrec]

Question: is there anything special about today's date? Is it a national holiday in France, is there a festival, does it have religious significance, those kind of things?

Well if Jan 7th isn't a day of significance than I hope that it becomes international draw Muhammed day.

Doesn't help.

People don't want to listen.

Theres thousands upon thousands of moderates demonstrating against all kinds of terrorist attacks. Check the Amirox link with video footage of Muslims demonstrating against IS crimes. Theres been several demonstrations against IS here in Denmark too. Check a couple of post backs, several Imams out and condemning the attacks.

It doesn't fucking matter. We're the scapegoat no matter what. Jesus, I don't want to know how Europe is going to be in 10 years.

I really hope that the prevailing attitude in Europe and America going forward is to treat these isolated incidents as they are, isolated.

I honestly can't speak to the wind blowing in Europe right now, but in America there is a terrible undercurrent of racism directed toward any muslim that dares to express their religious beliefs in any public fashion. It's not everyone, obviously, but it's pervasive enough. I honestly don't know how to change it beyond the normal "be the change" bullshit either. Sorry.

 

[RangerX]

Doesn't help.

People don't want to listen.

Theres thousands upon thousands of moderates demonstrating against all kinds of terrorist attacks. Check the Amirox link with video footage of Muslims demonstrating against IS crimes. Theres been several demonstrations against IS here in Denmark too. Check a couple of post backs, several Imams out and condemning the attacks.

It doesn't fucking matter. We're the scapegoat no matter what. Jesus, I don't want to know how Europe is going to be in 10 years.

Completely agree my friend. I feel scared for muslims living in europe in the next decade. I've seen Senior Islamic scholars and imams, along with most ordinary moderate muslims, condemn these kind of attacks. Its just that the tactics these scumbags use are so extreme and heartless its making it very hard for people to see past them. That doesn't mean moderate muslims can't do more but its very difficult when a significant portion of public opinion is already against you.

 

[Shito]

Spain news is crazy they are showing the footage of the gunman shooting someone on the sidewalk

Uhh just seen the footage where they down someone then walk over and execute.

Such a sad day.

The man getting shot down and executed was a policeman.

:/

 

[ComputerMKII]

To add to that, in the end, it wouldn't stop extremists from perpetrating their terror if they were so inclined. They are, after all, criminals.



Jesus Christ confirmed dead?!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Yes, from judicial sources.

 

[Grizzo]

Question: is there anything special about today's date? Is it a national holiday in France, is there a festival, does it have religious significance, those kind of things?

As far as I remember today is just a regular day here in France.

 

[Psychotext]

I can't handle this right now. This is so incredibly idiotic. The hastag makes it perfect in its idiocy. Like you put a bow on it.

Struggling to see why that post is idiotic to be honest. You really think there wont be the usual backlash against people with either the wrong skin colour or wrong religion? I really hope there isn't this time, but lets be realistic, there will be.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Martin Sonneborn, one of the publishers and former EIC of Titanic magazine (the German equivalent of Charlie Hebdo), said this:

"This is not funny. Criminal complaints, subscription cancellations or AK-shooting in reaction to satire are considered rude within the scene. Our sympathy goes out to the French colleagues. This could not have happened to Titanic, as we only have 6 writers,"


I think the people at Charlie Hedbo would have appreciated the approach.

I like it. Mock and belittle their actions publicly.

 

[Funky Papa]

There only seems to be one religion killing people over satire atm.

It wasn't that long ago that some nationalcatholic turds tried to bomb Italian comedian Leo Bassi's act in Spain, TBH.

Then again, those are tiny, tiny groups of extremely fringe individuals with no real support out there.

 

[CaLe]

An easy way to not fit into a box with crazy people is step out of that box altogether and be an individual untied to a belief that breeds crazy people.

This tragedy is fucking disgusting, but let's not start blaming a whole group of people for the action of the few, otherwise you're entering a very ugly territory.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Question: is there anything special about today's date? Is it a national holiday in France, is there a festival, does it have religious significance, those kind of things?

It's a random day as far as I know.

An easy way to not fit into a box with crazy people is step out of that box altogether and be an individual untied to a belief that breeds crazy people.

What a dumb thing to say.

 

[Majine]

Question: is there anything special about today's date? Is it a national holiday in France, is there a festival, does it have religious significance, those kind of things?

No, but at the magazine, this was the day of a weekly meeting of sorts.

 

[Gustav]

Completely agree my friend. I feel scared for muslims living in europe in the next decade. I've seen Senior Islamic scholars and imams, along with most ordinary moderate muslims, condemn these kind of attacks. Its just that the tactics these scumbags use are so extreme and heartless its making it very hard for people to see past them. That doesn't mean moderate muslims can't do more but its very difficult when a significant portion of public opinion is already against you.

I find it in poor taste that you enter this thread with nothing but concern trolling about what hypothetically might happen to muslims maybe in the future, when there are 12 people dead for drawing and publishing satirical cartoons. Doesn't that seem worrisome to you?

Struggling to see why that post is idiotic to be honest. You really think there wont be the usual backlash against people with either the wrong skin colour or wrong religion? I really hope there isn't this time, but lets be realistic, there will be.

See post above.

 

[Kiever Sher]

"Irony is that this week's cover of Charlie Hebdo is an attack against Islamophobe writer Houellebecq"
https://twitter.com/haikus_by_KN/status/552820533507944448

Was just thinking a little while ago how well timed his new book release is.

 

[justjohn]

All french newspapers and indeed all newspapers across Europe need to reprint that image on their front pages tommorow and keep reprinting it. Show no fear to these assholes.

 

[maquiladora]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the attackers were ex-military and not just well trained militants, perhaps even from the French military who then joined ISIS.

 

[Beefy]

Completely agree my friend. I feel scared for muslims living in europe in the next decade. I've seen Senior Islamic scholars and imams, along with most ordinary moderate muslims, condemn these kind of attacks. Its just that the tactics these scumbags use are so extreme and heartless its making it very hard for people to see past them. That doesn't mean moderate muslims can't do more but its very difficult when a significant portion of public opinion is already against you.

Yep they use fear to split the community and it is working. Far more needs to be done by both sides and the Government to stop it.

 

[freeofgreed]

Damn, RIP to all the people who died from this. What a stupid reason to kill someone over. However with that said, it's important for people to keep perspective on this and realize that this is in fact an extremely small minority of people carrying out these attacks. Stay safe Paris Gaf and good luck to Muslim Gaf and the rest of the muslims in Europe, shit may suck for you guys in the coming weeks/months

 

[theignoramus]

Terrible and sad.

 

[gutter_trash]

I see your point, but whenever a far right demonstration takes place, the locals usually react with significant counterdemonstrations of their own that help to galvanize anti-nazi support and show the rest of the world that the entire town is not made of scum. See: Pegida and Germany.

It can be argued that Muslims are not doing enough on that front. Moderate voices need to be louder and more confrontational in order to be heard.

agreed

 

[marrec]

It wasn't that long ago that some nationalcatholic turds tried to bomb Italian comedian Leo Bassi's act in Spain, TBH.

Then again, those are tiny, tiny groups of extremely fringe individuals with no real support out there.

Also wasn't that long ago that a certain religion was birthing extremists who would drag gay people behind their trucks simply for existing.

We shouldn't get into a "which crazy religion is craziest" contest just yet though.

 

[GreenRobot]

Well if Jan 7th isn't a day of significance than I hope that it becomes international draw Muhammed day.



I really hope that the prevailing attitude in Europe and America going forward is to treat these isolated incidents as they are, isolated.

I honestly can't speak to the wind blowing in Europe right now, but in America there is a terrible undercurrent of racism directed toward any muslim that dares to express their religious beliefs in any public fashion. It's not everyone, obviously, but it's pervasive enough. I honestly don't know how to change it beyond the normal "be the change" bullshit either. Sorry.

Its far worse in most European countries. There are exceptions.

 

[ComputerMKII]

French TV confirms there there were Kalachnikovs but NO rocket launcher.

 

[LiK]

Fucking awful. Hope they catch that asshole

 

[TheContact]

Sorry if this was answered but do French policeman not have guns? In the op it says some police arrived on bikes but fled when they saw the attackers were armed.

 

[Wessiej]

Dutch satire pic just went up, good.

 

[Joni]

Sorry if this was answered but do French policeman not have guns? In the op it says some police arrived on bikes but fled when they saw the attackers were armed.

Regular beat cops might not have handsguns. They also might not have the mentality to try and shoot down people attacking them with machine guns.

 

[Chariot]

I find it in poor taste that you enter this thread with nothing but concern trolling about what hypothetically might happen to muslims maybe in the future, when there are 12 people dead for drawing and publishing satirical cartoons. Doesn't that seem worrisome to you?

If you look at some of the responses here in the thread and elsewhere you'll see that this isn't concern trolling. Muslims are in actual danger of being judged by other people for the crimes of lunatics. Sharing the same religion does not mean sharing exactly the same beliefs. And some people can't see the difference between regular muslims and islamists.

 

[Xando]

Completely agree my friend. I feel scared for muslims living in europe in the next decade. I've seen Senior Islamic scholars and imams, along with most ordinary moderate muslims, condemn these kind of attacks. Its just that the tactics these scumbags use are so extreme and heartless its making it very hard for people to see past them. That doesn't mean moderate muslims can't do more but its very difficult when a significant portion of public opinion is already against you.

Why do these discussions always go in the way of poor muslims living in western countries? No one has problems with them if they integrate themselves into the system.

12 people were killed because they've made satirical comics about politics and religions.
All you do is concerning about what might happen to muslims?

 

[Alx]

French TV confirms there there were Kalachnikovs but NO rocket launcher.

Makes sense. Wtf would you expect to do with a rocket launcher in the middle of a city anyway ? It's not like they would need to take down helicopters or armored vehicles, this is not Die Hard.

Sorry if this was answered but do French policeman not have guns? In the op it says some police arrived on bikes but fled when they saw the attackers were armed.

I think those riding on bikes are from the City Police, and those usually don't have guns.

 

[Renzoku]

This tragedy is fucking disgusting, but let's not start blaming a whole group of people for the action of the few, otherwise you're entering a very ugly territory.

I'm not blaming a whole group of people, I'm blaming an ideology that a whole group of people willfully decide to follow, that happens to also be followed by a whole lot of fucking psychotic people who use it to commit crimes against humanity.

I'm sick of seeing this shit happen. I hate the fact that I am desensitized to this shit with ISIS, Al-Qaida, the Taliban, the African branches, etc. all committing these heinous acts for the greater glory of their stupid fucking god and their stupid fucking religion. I cannot wrap my head around why you would willingly associate yourself with the same source material that breeds these monsters. My patience for trying to be understanding of the ideology is at an end, and if I were a family member of one of the victims that lost their lives today, I would actively campaign against Islam as a religion and as an ideology in order to prevent more loss of life because some fuckhead decided that he has to take it upon himself to dole out God's judgement upon the infidels.

And my feelings on this are not limited in any way to Islam. I fully condemn what people do in the name of fucked up ideologies of any kind, but I am focusing on the ideology relevant in this thread and responsible for these horrible events today.

 

[maquiladora]

Sorry if this was answered but do French policeman not have guns? In the op it says some police arrived on bikes but fled when they saw the attackers were armed.

The police that arrived were outgunned. The attack was over by the time the more heavily armed police arrived.

 

[Ol No Bones]

No, nobody unrelated to this needs to speak up louder. You are part of the problem.

Why is this guy part of the problem? Did you seriously read this story and then that post and then somehow come to the conclusion that he is part of the problem. Did you even think about about what that says? The people who murdered today are solely responsible and its a little sad to me that so many posters seem upset more about how some political group may benefit from this rather than for the families and children who wont see their parents and loved ones again.

 

[Lakitu]

I saw some footage, fucking terrifying and despicable. Please catch these fucks.

 

[glaurung]

Sorry if this was answered but do French policeman not have guns? In the op it says some police arrived on bikes but fled when they saw the attackers were armed.

Don't know for sure, but regular officers on bikes... Perhaps they saw that the assailants had automatic weapons and even if they have a simple sidearm, they'd rather not risk it.

More likely biker officers have a pair of plastic handcuffs, bottle of mace and a radio.

 

[blitzcloud]

Completely agree my friend. I feel scared for muslims living in europe in the next decade. I've seen Senior Islamic scholars and imams, along with most ordinary moderate muslims, condemn these kind of attacks. Its just that the tactics these scumbags use are so extreme and heartless its making it very hard for people to see past them. That doesn't mean moderate muslims can't do more but its very difficult when a significant portion of public opinion is already against you.

That's why I believe a nationwide, or even crossnation movement should happen. it should happen. We've seen muslims fighting their rights in the streets, why not now, fighting to exclude those nutjobs publicly and showing that they care about what happened.

Imam condemning is the least I would expect, but to many it will sound like empty words. Taking the streets should be the least these actions should warrant, in a civilized society.

Don't get me wrong, if it was a christian-extremist killing i'd be saying the same.

 

[marrec]

Dutch satire pic just went up, good.

Amazing and sad all at the same time.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Speak up louder. As of now, the extremists are louder than the moderates.

He doesn't need to to do shit. You should be smart enough to figure out that not every muslim is an extremist.

 

[Gustav]

If you look at some of the responses here in the thread and elsewhere you'll see that this isn't concern trolling. Muslims are in actual danger of being judged by other people for the crimes of lunatics. Sharing the same religion does not mean sharing exactly the same beliefs. And some people can't see the difference between regular muslims and islamists.

"12 people were killed in an attack over satire"
"I hope muslims will be okay"

 

[Blimblim]

Who is Cabu and Charb ?

Famous caricature drawers ?

Cabu was basically the most beloved caricaturist in France. I (and many of my generation) basically grew up with his drawings.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

This is a sad incident but it's a wake up call,
Islamic countries started prosecuting extremist scholars after finding their disasterous effect,
many of these extremist resides in Europe and America to use the freedom of speech to conduct these poisonous ideologies among Muslims.

Instead of prosecuting all Muslims and repeating the same mistake that happened with the Jews, extract those who hold the these extreme ideologies to protect both Muslims and Non Muslims from such incidents.

 

[CaLe]

I'm not blaming a whole group of people, I'm blaming an ideology that a whole group of people willfully decide to follow, that happens to also be followed by a whole lot of fucking psychotic people who use it to commit crimes against humanity.

I'm sick of seeing this shit happen. I hate the fact that I am desensitized to this shit with ISIS, Al-Qaida, the Taliban, the African branches, etc. all committing these heinous acts for the greater glory of their stupid fucking god and their stupid fucking religion. I cannot wrap my head around why you would willingly associate yourself with the same source material that breeds these monsters. My patience for trying to be understanding of the ideology is at an end, and if I were a family member of one of the victims that lost their lives today, I would actively campaign against Islam as a religion and as an ideology in order to prevent more loss of life because some fuckhead decided that he has to take it upon himself to dole out God's judgement upon the infidels.

How about the fact that those fucking retards are misinterpreting said source material ? Hate the assholes that committed this, not some religion you have no comprehension or knowledge of, and as such all the people following said religion.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Did you even think about about what that says? .

You need to take a deep breath and read that conversation again.

 

[Shito]

Sorry if this was answered but do French policeman not have guns? In the op it says some police arrived on bikes but fled when they saw the attackers were armed.

Not all of them are, no.
And their orders, in a situation like this one, are probably to wait for reinforcements from the special units that are trained to react to events like this one.

Guns are a very rare occurence in Europe / France.
You rarely see one, to the point where I remember being shocked when first seeing military guys patrol in the train stations and official buildings carrying machin guns, some 10 years ago when the highest level of alert was reached because of some other terrorists events.

 

[itsgreen]

"12 people were killed in an attack over satire"
"I hope muslims will be okay"

.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Twitter is reporting a burning car near a synagogue in Sarcelles (Parisian suburbs). Not sure if legit or fake.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6wEQzNCUAAcqkY.jpg

 

[Kill Your Masters]

All french newspapers and indeed all newspapers across Europe need to reprint that image on their front pages tommorow and keep reprinting it. Show no fear to these assholes.

A extreme reaction to a extremist crime should not be the solution. Its the same as stopping the satire completely.

The terrorists count you do either or both, its a win win scenario in their eyes.

 

[Arksy]

Any updates?

 

[Mr. RHC]

"12 people were killed in an attack over satire"
"I hope muslims will be okay"

Then maybe you should read the thread carefully again, too. You might understand why it is necessary to call out the racism.

 

[Beefy]

This is a sad incident but it's a wake up call,
Islamic countries started prosecuting extremist scholars after finding their disasterous effect,
many of these extremist resides in Europe and America to use the freedom of speech to conduct these poisonous ideologies among Muslims.

Instead of prosecuting all Muslims and repeating the same mistake that happened with the Jews, extract those who hold the these extreme ideologies to protect both Muslims and Non Muslims from such incidents.

You can't do that in the UK. It is against a persons human rights most of the time....