Legend of Zelda Wii U Gameplay Demo
- Thread starter zakislam
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Orniletter
Banned
Even those games weren't "legitimately bad" Zelda games.
I think Phantom Hourglass is the weakest game in the entire series, but it's still a good game and an ok Zelda game
dampflokfreund
Banned
To be clear: you want an entirely open world which you can fully explore including all dungeons from the start? That's what it sounds like to me. I might missunderstand you, but just because there are some limitations for a better gameplay design and story, it won't mean that you won't be able to complete certain things in a different path. I approve what banofypie said.
I mean it surely would be lame if you could do everything from the start, where is the motivation when you already explored everything before the second dungeon?
TheMoon
Member
June 16, 2015
Thunder Monkey
Banned
When people hear legitimately bad, they think broken. A game that barely runs, and offers little in the way of fun. Not competent games with half baked ideas.
I really like that idea, some other obvious ones are:
- Boat for crossing shallow seas to the islands near the edge of the map.
- sand rod for creating bridges to cross chasms
- Digging mitts for tunneling beneath physical obstructions
- Diving scale for underwater exploration
- Heat resistant earrings or tunic for surviving in volcanic areas.
- Mask for protection from poison/miasma
Just some thoughts
Kissenkopf
Banned
Playing it again and you should give it another chance. Skyward Sword is incredible! The music and the dungeons are brillant. The only problem I have with the game is that it starts so slow and takes good 6 hours to get awesome.
I think it was an good experiment for the seried an I bett that everyone will love it 10 years from now.
And I doubt we will see anything at the GDC.
James Scott
Banned
I'd rather not have to wait till e3, but it feels very likely we will have to
Skyward Sword is one of the best in the franchise for me. Just because it doesn't do what you think Zelda should be, that doesn't make it a bad game.
as long as they aren't "marzipants" or "pantsacotta" because actually edible pants don't count
Thunder Monkey
Banned
For some it seems to.
I've never been able to explain it myself. I literally had no issues with the controls. The wonkiest for me was the bomb-rolling and harp. Every other motion controlled movement I found simple and intuitive.
I loved the art, the world design, and dungeon design. Ocean in a desert alone was enough to play it twice. For me there's never been a bad Zelda. All have an iffy design decision here and there. All I'd consider the best of the genre. Phantom Hourglass is the only I'd consider truly questionable. And that's only because an iffy idea is the core design mechanic.
Not entirely open, no. The world should totally have some sections that prohibit you from entering them, but, as you and banofypie said, give us please a believable and coherent reason as to why that is. Not just someone saying: "You can't enter here, you're still too weak."
But I totally want different paths available from the beginning, or a larger section of the overworld available for exploration, and the option to progress through dungeons in a different order.
I've played it 5 times. Replays just highlight everything wrong with it. The dungeons are by far the best part of the game though. It's most of everything else that's god awful.
I didn't say that.
I think Zelda is in itself a genre for me. That's why I find it hard to forgive Skyward Sword for all of its shortcomings, it fits neatly into the position of my least favourite of the 3D games and I can't stomach it any more.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Fair enough.
I have trouble really nailing down which is my favorite or least in the series. I love WW art style, but it really does feel like they forgot a third of the game there. TP has some of my favorite dungeons in the series, but the artistic design is just dreadful aside from a few inspired character designs and set piece, SS feels completely disjointed like the world is completely disconnected, but it has a terrific art style, the best combat mechanics of the series, and some needed changes to world traversal that set the game apart from it's predecessors in some fairly fundamental ways. OoT I rarely mention because it was more or less just a 3D mechanics test. Doing nothing better than the later entries, but nothing worse.
I can find faults in each, but none that make me dislike any of them. Hope you all have a good day, but monkey getting tired. As he should considering it's 7:30 in the morning and he hasn't slept.
In terms of how the open world is going to work, I'm hoping for a halfway point between ALBW and the traditional formula that still gives you a sense of discovery for getting an item. So instead of being able to outright buy all the items from the beginning, maybe they'll be hidden in the overworld, in mini-dungeons or behind quests. The items then give you access to dungeons or parts of the overworld, or make them easier to reach, etc. So you can go look for all the items and then go through the dungeons in one go, or stumble upon a dungeon and then go look for an item that could help you access it, or vice-versa. The game would need a notebook or quest log though, to maybe keep track of the hints you come across. I can't imagine it'd be very fun to roam across that huge world aimlessly, looking for some hidden place to use your new item on.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I'll never understand the venom directed at Skyward Sword. From the outside looking in, you'd think it belongs up there with Superman 64 or Bubsy 3D. Playing it for the first time a month ago, I was blown away. It's the best Zelda game yet.
Seriously, Fi never even talks to me. Talk about overblown criticism. Tatl interrupts me way, way more in Majora's Mask 3D than Fi ever did in Skyward Sword.
Seriously, Fi never even talks to me. Talk about overblown criticism. Tatl interrupts me way, way more in Majora's Mask 3D than Fi ever did in Skyward Sword.
That was my experience too. I think I went on a 5-hour binge playing SS one time and Fi never interrupted me. For a moment I forgot she was even there. When I hear people say she interrupts you every minute or so, I roll my eyes. It's a gross exaggeration and doesn't even come close to painting a picture of my experience with the game at all. It's why I tend to avoid talking about the game. I doubt its detractors even played the whole game.
TheCongressman1
Member
Well, a lot of different people are upset with the game for many different reasons. Not everyone has the same issues as others.
What I take issue with in regards to Fi is the blandness of her character. It wouldn't be such a displeasure for her to pop up if she had something interesting to say. And of course, there's a reason people make such a big deal about Navi in OoT. People generally don't like the helpers. Midna is the only exception in my book, and even she got annoying at some points. Especially at the beginning of the game due to TP's terrible pacing at the start.
Anyway, In some ways SS is my favorite Zelda, and in others I'm very disappointed with the way it turned out. It's very bittersweet for me.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Yeah I definitely acknowledge that the game has flaws, and it's certainly not going to be 100% for everyone. I was just thrown off big time when I finally played it and it wasn't a steaming pile. The sky, for example, was a big missed opportunity in my opinion. All but empty, and it takes forever to actually get anywhere.
And I'm definitely not talking about the kind of people in a thread like this. I'm talking more about the attitude of NeoGAF's gen pop towards the game.
And I'm definitely not talking about the kind of people in a thread like this. I'm talking more about the attitude of NeoGAF's gen pop towards the game.
StarPlatinumTheWorld
Member
I bought Skyward Sword, got to the part where you first get to the surface and never played it again.. Did I dun goof?
Way goofed.
It gets immensely better after that intro. You barely scratched the surface (no pun intended!).
My LTTP thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=894926
I think you dun goofed. SS is a really cool game if you accept it on its own terms.
LegendofLex
Member
I love how you suggest that "glorified sightseeing simulator" elements are contrary to Zelda's core mechanics, when Zelda's original design philosophy was literally to make a "miniature garden that players can put inside their drawer" (Miyamoto)
There's a not-so-fine line between suggesting that the series improve and suggesting that the series throw aside what it is actually about.
Calamari41
41 > 38
That's exactly what I did back in 2011 at launch, mainly because I also got Skyrim and Dark Souls at the same time and those pulled me away from Skyward Sword. After that exact point, the game blows up. Get back on it!
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
You can cheese the fuck out of it if you aim just above and to the right of the guy tossing them (name escapes me) and release arrows as soon as he releases the pumpkins.
StarPlatinumTheWorld
Member
Ahhh crap, looks like I'm setting up the Wii again this weekend, I got SS about early 2013 I think.. Literally just forgot about the game entirely and then couldn't be bothered lol. I don't have a Wii U.
Yeah, I remember reading that right after I finished the game so next time I know what to do.
dampflokfreund
Banned
Ah I see. Then I'm with you.
Though I don't see the importance of doing dungeons in any order, I'd much rather have a good difficulty curve.
I was terrible at that. My wife was super skilled at it though. My problem was that Lumpy Pumpkin Harp minigame ;__;
That's the way the Zelda community rolls, everything that doesn't adhere to a specific point of view of how a Zelda should be immediately triggers ridiculous exaggerations.
Not that I'm saying there aren't plenty of legitimate things to criticize.
Edit: or rather, some vocal elements within te community create this image.
Well that sort of comes with exploring a vast open world, doesn't it? I don't want to find four dungeons that I can't even enter and look for the one dungeon that I actually am supposed to do right now. Why not let me explore every one that I can find?
I know you assume that the difficulty of the dungeons will decrease and sort of stay on the same level because every dungeon could be your first one in that scenario, but why not just have more difficult dungeons than others? Maybe there's an easy dungeon near the beginning area, but as you travel further and further, you come across many different environments and then, suddenly, you arrive at this majestic dungeon and you just know that this one is supposed to be tough. So good for you if you manage to beat it early on, or else you can just come back whenever you feel you're ready for it.
What if Nintendo decided to blow everyone away and announced that the dungeons change depending on the order you do them. Each dungeon has a easy, medium and hard version and the version is chosen based on when you choose to do the dungeon.
Replay value would be through the roof.
Kissenkopf
Banned
Than we would have to wait 10 more years for the game to be finished. It is extremly difficult to design one version of an dungeon...but three?!
But isn't that how it would be in the first place? I mean you would have more/better equipment for dungeons you decide to do later therefore more options in combat and maybe how you go about completing the dungeon itself
TheCongressman1
Member
That would be fantastic, but who knows if it would be feasible.
I think they will probably go with a tier setup. For example, there 2 easy dungeons you can access at the beginning, 3 medium in the middle, and 4 hard at the end.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I think a good solution would be to hide the traditional "dungeon items" (bow, hookshot, etc) in mini dungeons throughout the world which you find via exploration, sidequest, etc, with the items required for the late game dungeons being harder to find and actually get, but still technically available from the start. That way you can be driven by the story to find each dungeon item in order like normal, but going out of your way to explore the world will allow you to still enter and complete dungeons out of the intended order with their different difficulty levels intact.
Keep Link Between Worlds' system of having "upgrade" items in the actual dungeons themselves. So, if you want, you can go grab the mirror shield or the materials for sword upgrades right at the start of the game by "punching up" and ninja-ing your way through late game mini dungeons/side quests and late game dungeons. Kind of like how Dark Souls allows you to upgrade to fire weapons or get the Great Scythe right off the bat by making your way through the catacombs way out of order and with intense difficulty.
Imagine in Link to the Past if you could, with difficultly, work your way to getting the Cane of Somaria and Fire Rod right after entering the Dark World, and thus go get the mirror shield in Turtle Rock and beat it (with five hearts) before even entering the Eastern Palace. Hell, you could go grab the entire arsenal right off the bat if you wanted, which maybe will allow for earlier dungeons to be completed way more easily (like the hookshot allows you to skip most of the first dungeon or something). You can already kind of do this in LttP by half-completing dungeons and then moving on before beating the boss, which is something I used to do all the time, but this would be more baked in.
Keep Link Between Worlds' system of having "upgrade" items in the actual dungeons themselves. So, if you want, you can go grab the mirror shield or the materials for sword upgrades right at the start of the game by "punching up" and ninja-ing your way through late game mini dungeons/side quests and late game dungeons. Kind of like how Dark Souls allows you to upgrade to fire weapons or get the Great Scythe right off the bat by making your way through the catacombs way out of order and with intense difficulty.
Imagine in Link to the Past if you could, with difficultly, work your way to getting the Cane of Somaria and Fire Rod right after entering the Dark World, and thus go get the mirror shield in Turtle Rock and beat it (with five hearts) before even entering the Eastern Palace. Hell, you could go grab the entire arsenal right off the bat if you wanted, which maybe will allow for earlier dungeons to be completed way more easily (like the hookshot allows you to skip most of the first dungeon or something). You can already kind of do this in LttP by half-completing dungeons and then moving on before beating the boss, which is something I used to do all the time, but this would be more baked in.
TheCongressman1
Member
Yes, good ideas here. Having items in the overworld will be crucial I think.
I think there shouldn't be a disconnect when going into a dungeon. In other Zelda's, getting to a dungeon is like a giant pause in the overworld, everything you did up until that point kind of melts away. You don't have to worry about it because you know you already did everything you need to get to that point. That's something I hope they change with this game. Make the player question whether or not they need to be at a certain location at any given time. Have the player take risks by going into a dungeon.
ReyVGM
Member
My experience too. However, Fi does get a little chatty halfway through all the way to the end. Such as pointing out what a boss door looks like after I've seen like 5 of them already.
brandonh83
Banned
It's amazing and the most fun I've ever had playing a Zelda game. I have a few reservations about it but the difference is that I'm able to overlook things instead of focus on them.
ReyVGM
Member
That goddamned minigame. I thought I was never going to beat it. Until I figured a trick out. Instead of following the pumpkin, or shooting at it halfway or near landing, you just position the reticle above the guy that throws them. There's a spot near the roof of the bulding where every single pumking goes through regardless of speed or angle. Once I found that out, and timed my shots right before the pumpkin gets launched, I was able to beat it with a huge score.
smashballTaz
Member
I freaking LOVED it. If there just a way to make Fi's hand-holding optional it would have been near-perfect.
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