"Previously Recorded" review The Order 1886

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Fixed2BeBroken said:
LOL... i actually played that shitty game....
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Well you have to remember when you're playing Superman 64. The developers wanted you to experience flying through rings in a deliberate fashion. That's the game they made and if you don't like that you really shouldn't criticize it because you should have known it was a deliberate ring flying game.

Not every game needs more than flying through rings.
 
antitrop said:
An episodic-style story presented in standard video game franchise format is not a good idea. I can't believe I have to wait SEVERAL YEARS to see where all the plot points 1886 never bothered addressing go.
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Agreed. I hope they can at least come up with a DLC that can tie up some loose ends and show a more gameplay focused future for this franchise. And only charge $5 for it if anything.
 
cool_dude said:
Lots of posters in the OT don't like it. The majority of the reviews say it's crappy. Only on neogaf is where people are so defensive and so emotionally attached to their $60 purchase. Thus, it is this snake oil that people try to justify and convince others to buy.

The review essentially states in the end that The Order 1886 has no replay value, so go ahead and burn it and forget it.
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I really don't understand the need to defend the game this much. I get it if someone enjoys the game and finds it entertaining, but to go on review threads about the game and not only criticize them, but go and trash the reviewer, without actually having seen the review, making wild assumptions about what the review says (that aren't even true) just as an excuse to trash the review, and do this for hours on end and at the end of the day still refusing to watch the video they spend so long criticizing...

That's not your standard "Hey, I liked the game for X and Y reason" response to a negative review. It's an outright crusade. It's like they visibly can see the critiques but rather than acknowledge them they double down and spew off more garbage to dismiss them.

It's OK to admit a game you anticipated turned out crappy. And it's OK to realize that yes, it's crappy, but you still had a good time with it. Nobody needs to go on a defense force crusade to make ourselves feel better about our opinion.
 
Tryckser said:
I hope if somebody says "This song is total garbage", he actually listened to it before. And if someone writes a critique about a book, I sure hope he has read it....
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It depends on what aspects you're talking about and what the context of the review is. If a professional reviewer hadn't played the game before saying it sucks, then there'd be an issue.

On the other hand, I'm not going to spend $60 on something that most media outlets agree is nothing special and a few have said is terrible, with the level of agreement that the media has about The Order. That would be perverse, and it would make me an unimaginably poor consumer.
 
Freshmaker said:
Well you have to remember when you're playing Superman 64. The developers wanted you to experience flying through rings. That's the game they made and if you don't like that you really shouldn't criticize it because you should have known it was a ring flying game.

Not every game needs more than flying through rings.
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Jack-Nicholson-lol.gif


but I was only a kid then!!! I didn't know!
 
Armaros said:
Your first post in this thread is on page three, It's now page 9, and you still haven't watched the entire video and still post complaints about reviews and people talking about reviews without playing.

The irony is thick.
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If you would actually read what I write it would be much easier. I don't need to watch a whole movie, video, etc. to dislike it. But I should at least have watched some of it.
The same goes for games. You don't have to play trough the whole game if you dislike it, but not playing/watching/hearing/whatever something at all and disliking it is strange to me.
 
Tryckser said:
If you would actually read what I write it would be much easier. I don't need to watch a whole movie, video, etc. to dislike it. But I should at least have watched some of it.
The same goes for games. You don't have to play trough the whole game if you dislike it, but not playing/watching/hearing/whatever something at all and disliking it is strange to me.
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You can dislike them and their video all you want, but they're right.

I happened to enjoy the game, for the most part, while also agreeing with every single criticism they had.
 
Beelzebufo said:
I think it's because they were being pretentious about it. Both in and out of the game you get the impression that they think they've created a masterpiece, but they ain't even shit.
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I think it's actually incredible given that it's their first console title, they did a fantastic job on the PSP prior (Daxter, God of War CoO/GoS), they're a young studio and extremely talented. Hopefully their next game pulls off an Uncharted 1-2 like improvement.
 
Tryckser said:
If you would actually read what I write it would be much easier. I don't need to watch a whole movie, video, etc. to dislike it. But I should at least have watched some of it.
The same goes for games. You don't have to play trough the whole game if you dislike it, but not playing/watching/hearing/whatever something at all and disliking it is strange to me.
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Armaros said:
And those points were counter by others saying otherwise.
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Where, exactly?

He demanded to see the proof and declared he won't kill innocents until he sees it.

Then proceeds to break into private property, murder the guards and then asks at the end to see the proof.
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Correct on the first paragraph.

Incorrect on the second, unless self defence is now classed as murder?
You stealth your way in and eventually after being discovered, are not apprehended as one would expect from a regular security guard who instead attempt to murder you, with weapons from your secretive order which they should not have. Context is important. The reason he is there in the first place is largely due to said weapons, high suspicions, and the involvement of your now deceased best friend and mentor whom you absolutely trust hinting of a dark, widespread conspiracy. There is also in-mission dialogue which refers to the killing, insinuating it was necessary and even going so far as to tease the protagonist over his demons.
 
Tryckser said:
If you would actually read what I write it would be much easier. I don't need to watch a whole movie, video, etc. to dislike it. But I should at least have watched some of it.
The same goes for games. You don't have to play trough the whole game if you dislike it, but not playing/watching/hearing/whatever something at all and disliking it is strange to me.
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And everyone else is pointing out how arbitrary your line is between "you're allowed to judge something" and "you're not allowed to judge something".

If you're someone who's going to these lengths to dismiss the people who judge a universally criticized game because "they haven't played it", it stands to reason that same person would also have a problem with dismissing a review they haven't watched because "it's OK I only saw parts of it".
 
GoaThief said:
Where, exactly?


Correct on the first paragraph.

Incorrect on the second, unless self defence is now classed as murder?
You stealth your way in and eventually after being discovered, are not apprehended as one would expect from a regular security guard who instead attempt to murder you, with weapons from your secretive order which they should not have. Context is important. The reason he is there in the first place is largely due to said weapons, high suspicions, and the involvement of your now deceased best friend and mentor whom you absolutely trust hinting of a dark, widespread conspiracy. There is also in-mission dialogue which refers to the killing, insinuating it was necessary and even going so far as to tease the protagonist over his demons.
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It's not self defense when you're breaking into their private property. Galahad had no need to murder all those guys but had too anyway because A. He didn't want to die (no shit) B. We all knew they were evil and that Ethnic Hard Lady was right anyway (so why have that pointless line of dialogue from Galahad in the first place?) The answer is...poor storytelling, there's a lot of that in The Order.
 
LookAtMeGo said:
Thats true but if the game has at least one nice thing to say about it, its the graphics. Couldn't hurt to at least point it out.

They can point out everywhere it fails but nowhere it succeeds. The visual department is somewhere it succeeds and deserves a mention. Just a bit suspect is all.
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While streaming their playthrough on Twitch, they commented on the visuals many times, Jack pointed out how gorgeous the game is.
 
EatinOlives said:
And everyone else is pointing out how arbitrary your line is between "you're allowed to judge something" and "you're not allowed to judge something".

If you're someone who's going to these lengths to dismiss the people who judge a universally criticized game because "they haven't played it", it stands to reason that same person would also have a problem with dismissing a review they haven't watched because "it's OK I only saw parts of it".
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It's something populating just about every review thread and/or individual video criticism thread.

"I didn't read/watch the review but <insert opinion about reviewer>" is occurring everywhere. It's what got the Order Review thread locked, people couldn't read or watch the reviews and instead started spouting conspiracy theories.

While crying that you can't judge a game without playing it, but it's fine for reviews apparently.
 
EatinOlives said:
It's OK to admit a game you anticipated turned out crappy. And it's OK to realize that yes, it's crappy, but you still had a good time with it.
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antitrop said:
You can dislike them and their video all you want, but they're right.

I happened to enjoy the game, for the most part, while also agreeing with every single criticism they had.
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Reasonable, awesome posts.

I feel the same way antitrop, some of the reviews sure make me chuckle (Angry Joe's especially), but I really can't debate any of the points they brought up, they are indeed right about a lot of them. Damn if I didn't enjoy the hell out of the game though. And playing it after reading some scathing posts and reviews, I was actually pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed it.

That said, as someone brought up earlier in this thread, I did NOT agree at all with RLM's take on Alien Isolation. Their complaints were very strange. To me at least.

People hating a game doesn't have to dampen your feelings on it, if you like it or have fun with it, who really cares?

Crusades work both ways though, as many people that are trying to defend or"sell" this game, there are just as many trying to make certain no one likes it or plays it.

But all in all, it's just a game.
*shrug*

People take posts so seriously on here.


Also, this-
Muscle Wizard said:
Nerds are really insufferable.
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Jito said:
It's not self defense when you're breaking into their private property. Galahad had no need to murder all those guys but had too anyway because A. He didn't want to die (no shit) B. We all knew they were evil and that Ethnic Hard Lady was right anyway (so why have that pointless line of dialogue from Galahad in the first place?) The answer is...poor storytelling, there's a lot of that in The Order.
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There are places in the world, such as England (where the game is set), whereby murdering someone for breaking into a business property is highly illegal. Self defence and preservation in the face of extreme and suspicious violence isn't illogical nor unreasonable.

If you want to nitpick over a single line, why would it be unfair for Galahad to not want to needlessly kill people? He is not aware of the rebel leaders exact methods of infiltration at this point. There is an element of mistrust of the individual yet obviously internally believes something to be amiss regarding the company and his order.

While we're on this tip don't get me wrong; I agree that the storytelling isn't exactly stellar in The Order, but I don't believe it to be the travesty some are making out either. The voice acting itself is great on the whole too.
 
Funny review. Kinda wrote off Rich and Jack after their Sonic video, but they brought it back with this one. Generally funny. Glad they brought part of "Best of the Worst" into this video with creative ways to destroy bad media.
 
MormaPope said:
While streaming their playthrough on Twitch, they commented on the visuals many times, Jack pointed out how gorgeous the game is.
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Word. I liked the review, I just feel they should have covered the visuals in it. The voice acting is also above average but never got a mention. IMO they got a little caught up in their hate for the game. I can understand why but I like a review to cover both pros and cons and to be as informative as possible. Angry Joe also shit on the game but I found his review to be better because he didn't let all the negative things stop him from pointing out any positives. If in thier stream they said they loved the visuals, I just think they should have included it in their review.
 
psykobunny said:
The folks who made The Order must be pissed that everyone decided this samey AAA action game is the one to get all thinkpiecey about.
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Actually, they should probably be pissed that this came out after The Last of Us.

If you can't even come close to the bar that was set on a previous generation of consoles several years prior, then hey... you're gonna get slammed for it.
 
GoaThief said:
There are places in the world, such as England (where the game is set), whereby murdering someone for breaking into a business property is highly illegal. Self defence and preservation in the face of extreme and suspicious violence isn't illogical nor unreasonable.
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Oh ho ho this is getting fun now, so you're citing real world laws in England (I live here man) that are now applicable to a fantasy version of 18th Century London? What were the laws back then anyway? Do they exist in this world were Werewovles, Vampires and a rebel uprising against the government exist?

I'll just stop reading the rest of your post because...lol?
 
All that stuff about how bad the story is despite it being the games focus reminds of Tameem from Ninja Theory's declaration that DmC was gonna show the world that Video Game stories aren't trite & can stand up to the best that Film & Theatre have to offer.
 
psykobunny said:
Didn't know that marketing is part of the review process. I just don't get why they finally decided to call bullshit on AAA super vanilla check list games.
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Crossing Eden said:
Showing off confidence is not inherently a bad thing. But they had a ton of bad PR.
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I mean it's not even just the marketing, right? Like the slow wrist turn segments seem to be begging you to appreciate how good it looks. I'm sure it rubbed some people the wrong way, and it factors into reviews. I think being too condescending is a legit complaint.

They put it in a slightly different way here: "It insults my intelligence"
 
One thing I do think is a little unfair is to nitpick on the tutorializing of the controls in the beginning of the game. That first scene in the catacombs establishes the convention of the button prompts - first a simple button press to break free, then a sustained press to reach for the keys and then mashing the button to power into things. Then movement, shuffling, vaulting, aiming, etc.

Picking on the fact that these initial examples aren't failable seems disingenuous.

The other stuff though, they do a fine job dismembering the game piece by piece. I still think The Order can be impressive as hell on its own terms, and worth a playthrough just to wander through that space for a while, but these guys aren't wrong.
 
Jito said:
Oh ho ho this is getting fun now, so you're citing real world laws in England (I live here man) that are now applicable to a fantasy version of 18th Century London? What were the laws back then anyway? Do they exist in this world were Werewovles, Vampires and a rebel uprising against the government exist?

I'll just stop reading the rest of your post because...lol?
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Good question, if you want to take the fantasy route then as no law books are in the game as far as I'm aware, you're basically undermining your argument that Galahad's actions were not justified because who the fuck knows what is right and wrong in such a strange and unrealistic world? Anything goes?

As for your final paragraph, very constructive.
 
Booshka said:
Welp, Gunshot fade to black for Tryckser.
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More like fade to black, gunshot.
...

Antitrop being in this thread reminds me of how a short, narrative focused game can do it right (Spec Ops) vs the piece of shit narrative The Order attempts. When your game is nothing but story, and you have the nerve to leave almost every single story point hanging or unresolved, betraying your logic and even using flash forward/back wrong to deflate all tension, you know you fucked up in major way.

I didn't think the gameplay in Spec Ops was anything special, in fact I'm pretty sure I almost hated it, but it's a game I can respect for what it was going for and would recommend spending money on. Subtle things like changing very minor character animations as your character's state of mind progresses is an excellent example of how to take the "game" part of your story driven game and use it to your advantage, even when as far as the gameplay is concerned it changes nothing.

Meanwhile, The Order puts items in tables, sometimes forces you to look at them from all angles, and tries to call this tech-demo tendency 'gameplay', almost disgusted at the thought, giving you nothing valuable (gameplay or story-wise) in return.

Man, what a turd The Order is.

Emperor_EL said:
All that stuff about how bad the story is despite it being the games focus reminds of Tameem from Ninja Theory's declaration that DmC was gonna show the world that Video Game stories aren't trite & can stand up to the best that Film & Theatre have to offer.
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Statements like that are always the downfall of these developers. I still can't understand why they long for such validation either. A lot of them really must be frustrated screenwriters/movie directors. Even game's best stories are your typical run of the mill tales popular genre fiction offers in other mediums. And that's perfectly fine tbh. Even a guy like Umberto Eco, a genius scholar who had no problem analyzing, criticism and decrying certain aspects of pop culture structured one of his famous books after popular detective fiction. Unashamedly so.
 
Most points seem solid particularly the narrative complaints which I share. I wouldn't burn it though! They are under-evaluating the gameplay but the points are fair they're just taking it to the extreme.

All in all The Order is a case of a great concept and good idea being fairly hampered with average to weak execution in most areas.

I'd still take a sequel if they iron out the issues and make a big jump from the - plentiful - constructive criticism going around (and even though they burn the game a lot of the criticism here can easily be made constructive).
 
GoaThief said:
Good question, if you want to take the fantasy route then as no law books are in the game as far as I'm aware, you're basically undermining your argument that Galahad's actions were not justified because who the fuck knows what is right and wrong in such a strange and unrealistic world? Anything goes?

As for your final paragraph, very constructive.
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Hardly, I'm opening up the idea that in such a world that Vampires, Werewolves and a rebel uprising against the government exist, that yes it would be likely that shoot on sight is used on private property. We don't know either way, but It'd be sensible to assume that the guards protecting the docks would draw weapons and fire on two people sneaking in with weapons right?

Ok I'll reply to the rest of your post, earlier in the game Galahad had no issue with murdering innocent guards on the Agamemnon because they had no time to decide who was a rebel right? Why does he suddenly have an issue with killing these guards even though it's highly likely that they're evil? Galahad had a change of heart even though there's mounting evidence against the company?
 
GoaThief said:
Where, exactly?


Correct on the first paragraph.

Incorrect on the second, unless self defence is now classed as murder?
You stealth your way in and eventually after being discovered, are not apprehended as one would expect from a regular security guard who instead attempt to murder you, with weapons from your secretive order which they should not have. Context is important. The reason he is there in the first place is largely due to said weapons, high suspicions, and the involvement of your now deceased best friend and mentor whom you absolutely trust hinting of a dark, widespread conspiracy. There is also in-mission dialogue which refers to the killing, insinuating it was necessary and even going so far as to tease the protagonist over his demons.
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GoaThief said:
Yet you cannot explain where it is incorrect and have to resort to snide remarks?

Very decent of you!
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GoaThief said:
There are places in the world, such as England (where the game is set), whereby murdering someone for breaking into a business property is highly illegal. Self defence and preservation in the face of extreme and suspicious violence isn't illogical nor unreasonable.

If you want to nitpick over a single line, why would it be unfair for Galahad to not want to needlessly kill people? He is not aware of the rebel leaders exact methods of infiltration at this point. There is an element of mistrust of the individual yet obviously internally believes something to be amiss regarding the company and his order.

While we're on this tip don't get me wrong; I agree that the storytelling isn't exactly stellar in The Order, but I don't believe it to be the travesty some are making out either. The voice acting itself is great on the whole too.
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GoaThief said:
Good question, if you want to take the fantasy route then as no law books are in the game as far as I'm aware, you're basically undermining your argument that Galahad's actions were not justified because who the fuck knows what is right and wrong in such a strange and unrealistic world? Anything goes?

As for your final paragraph, very constructive.
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I think some of the hate against The Order isn't justified, and I myself enjoyed the game somewhat, but man, you are just literally making shit up here to cover up the game's shortcomings.

The specific moment in question was very poorly handled in-game, and you making up bullshit like "Well, it was self-defense." (- it wasn't; he was trespassing on private property with the LEADER OF THE REBELS and then murdered anyone and anything without any remorse despite clearly having the upper hand and multiple chances to break off the entire thing and GET THE FUCK OUT) and other stuff that was not actually in the game in order to cover that up does not fool anyone. Some of your other posts as well.
 
Love RLM. The review was entertaining and in-depth, and nicely playing to their strength in cinema knowledge.

Lots of people might dislike the game and what it represent. Deal with it. Move on.
 
GoaThief said:
You mean by the snap cut to black? Why is this an inherently bad thing? As I previously mentioned
La Haine
is a fantastic film and features a similar ending, what makes it so terrible in the case of The Order?
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Firstly it's use in this case is sheer sequel bait like so many of the other issues with the implementation of the plot
Secondly, it's use and it's boneheaded use of In medias res (which as this review points out absolutely guts the impact of a number of scenes in the game) are pretty cackhanded and come across as a bunch of amateurs desperately trying to be filmmakers.

but ultimately the reason it's so fucking awful in this film/game is that's a moment which is completely unearned. The gunshot fade to black is usually use to denote the protagonist having a massive emotional dilemma over whether to shoot someone, usually someone close. In this case, RAD didn't ever bother to set up the relationship with the antagonist onscreen (they hint at a previous friendship but never show it, they don't even have him as your buddy for a chapter or two at the start) so there is absolutely no real emotional weight to it. Again the review makes it pretty clear how little screen time is given to setting up this relationship. The gunshot fade to black in essence is meant to be ambiguous pay off to a plot. While the betrayal is obvious from the moment the character is introduced, his part in the plot is well pretty inconsequential. He's not the main villain.
 
Poor RAD. Their artists and technicians did such an amazing job here. It's a shame the gameplay decisions will overshadow that forever. Probably means we'll never see an ambitious project from them again.
 
140.85 said:
Poor RAD. Their artists and technicians did such an amazing job here. It's a shame the gameplay decisions will overshadow that forever. Probably means we'll never see an ambitious project from them again.
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It'll be CryTek all over again. Amazing tech, mediocre games.
 
Jito said:
/stuff
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Genuine thanks for the reply, I'm out of time so hopefully we can continue at a later date.

Tiemen said:
The specific moment in question was very poorly handled in-game, and you making up bullshit like "Well, it was self-defense." (- it wasn't; he was trespassing on private property with the LEADER OF THE REBELS and then murdered anyone and anything without any remorse despite clearly having the upper hand and multiple chances to break off the entire thing and GET THE FUCK OUT) and other stuff that was not actually in the game in order to cover that up does not fool anyone. Some of your other posts as well.
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The conversation between the two characters shows discomfort with the situation on Galahad's part. How do you know it's remorseless exactly?

If Galahad breaks off and decides not to pursue his only chance of solid evidence of the conspiracy, is he not endangering himself and all he holds dear (the order itself, friends, Royalty, innocents and country) by doing so? The character is alao fallible and is not what I'd call a "good man". I would also like to put forward his (and all of the order/elite) hinted at narrative of classism - from his perspective perhaps he values worth of life differently? I have to say I sided with the rebels perspective, and by the end of the game perhaps the cabal of self-serving and corrupt vampires is exposed for what it is.
 
Booshka said:
Crysis 1 is really good though.
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antitrop said:
Eh, Far Cry 1 was great for its time, and Crysis 1 will always be great, so... RAD has some catching up to do if they want to be CryTek.
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Sure. CryTek was off to a better start, you guys are right. The situation just reminded me of them because I always figured their great tech in the hands of an equally great game designer/artist would be amazing.
 
Have nothing to say other than I had no idea Rich Evans did videogames stuff aside from RedLetterMedia.

Loved them playing STRAFE a week or so ago, they got the dev on stream and it was a nice watch. Subscribed and all that.
 
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