American police killed more people in March than the UK has since 1900

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WonkersTHEWatilla said:
This is especially insane if you consider that the rate of violent crime in the US is actually lower for past 2 years in comparison to that of the UK from 2012 onward. Combine that with the siginificant difference in overall population (300+ million vs. 65+ million), the rate of deaths by the hand of the police force(s) in this country is just staggering.
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Just to point out (as it's part of my day job) - you cannot compare violent crime figures across countries. Each country uses a different definition, and the UKs definition of a "violent crime" is *significantly* broader than the States for example. A crime can be classed as violent if no physical force occurred at all, for example.

(in the same way that a crime will be classed as a gun crime in the UK if someone involved *thinks* a gun was present - doesn't matter if it wasn't in reality).
 
I think it has to do with the decentralized nature of our police force. If you are a cop in Philly and you shoot someone, well the DA has to get elected and the union is going to make that really fucking hard if you start prosecuting bad cops. I am willing to bet that the UK doesn't let their cops basically pick who gets to prosecute them.
 
Hari Seldon said:
I think it has to do with the decentralized nature of our police force. If you are a cop in Philly and you shoot someone, well the DA has to get elected and the union is going to make that really fucking hard if you start prosecuting bad cops. I am willing to bet that the UK doesn't let their cops basically pick who gets to prosecute them.
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The UK has an independent authority to investigate the police, the IPCC. They are automatically brought in whenever someone dies as a result of a police action or following police custody.
 
When I glanced at the title I thought it said 1990 then I noticed it said 1900 and I actually said "wow" out loud, Its fucking shocking.
 
To be fair though, the UK seems like an extreme case (in the good sense). Here in the Netherlands 'safety' has been an important point for political parties and police shootings are far more frequent compared to the UK. There's actual policy for cops to use their weapons more often.
 
Can someone smarter than me get the deaths in proportion of their respective population size?

But at its surface, that's quite telling.
 
Maledict said:
The UK has an independent authority to investigate the police, the IPCC. They are automatically brought in whenever someone dies as a result of a police action or following police custody.
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Our cops in the US are more analogous to Knights in the feudal system than an actual European modern police force. I mean real knights not fake ass knights. Real knights were god damn thugs that terrorized the peasants for money. And if their Lord gave them too much shit they would overthrow him and put in a more friendly Lord. That is what the US police force does. Terrorize the peasants for money for their local area.
 
n00bsauce87 said:
Can someone smarter than me get the deaths in proportion of their respective population size?

But at its surface, that's quite telling.
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The UK has 20% of the population of the USA.

If it were equivalent, the UK would have had 31,740 shootings since 1900. Instead the UK had 44.
 
backslashbunny said:
How do y'all deal with these groups, then?

Since it seems, from this thread, that many if not most UK police are not armed, I am actually really curious how these unarmed cops deal with armed gangsters / factions during pursuit, arrest, etc.
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There are special armed squads that can be called in if guns are needed, but the majority of police aren't armed - and they don't want to be. the Police unions are very much against arming all Police, as they feel it will make their lives more dangerous.

Have to remember the UK also has some extremely severe gun control laws, so armed criminals are rare in general - certainly when compared to the USA.
 
Antagon said:
Also, how dangerous is it really to be a cop in the US?
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Roughly the same amounts of the same types of danger as a pizza delivery driver.
 
Well. In the UK it's illegal to carry guns and the normal police doesn't either. The reason so many die in the US is simply because every Cop is trained to believe the person they're arresting is carrying.

The comparison is stupid. US needs better gun-laws.
 
huxley00 said:
Give me a comparison of a country with an armed populace, apples and oranges.
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For the point of "do police apply force any differently in similar situations?", yeah, you're right.

For the point of "is one of these societies more fatally violent?" - nah.
 
backslashbunny said:
How do the special armed squads deal with armed suspects, then?

Just as a note, I don't mean this in an aggressive or confrontational way. I would like to know how the UK, and other countries, deal with a population/group of people that are suspected as being armed and willing to use their weapons.
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I'm not trained in Police arms usage, so I wouldn't know, but clearly there's a greater priority on not shooting as the first point of response.

Having watched and read up on a lot of the USA shootings it appears they happen under circumstances that would be utterly foreign to UK police - guns as the first resort rather than the last. Most people don't want to end up in a shooting match when outnumbered by armed police.
 
I would readily claim that this is purely due to institutional factors rather than quality-of-police reasons. Like everyone in this thread has already mentioned: guns guns guns, poverty poverty poverty, etc. etc.

Was just looking at the homicide rates (by guns) per each country and the population differences and below are some rough numbers to get another statistical POV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

US POP: 325 or so
UK POP: 65 or so

US homicide rate (by guns): 2,84
UK homicide rate (by guns): 0,04

Then...

US/UK POP Ratio: 5
US/UK HOM Ratio: 71

=> Multiplied... 355

Contrast that to how much the proportion would have to be to explain these statistics: 110 years * 12 months = 1320

=> So roughly a 4x difference and significant variation still

But again, perhaps March was an anomaly (haven't checked) and also what is VERY likely, gun violence (by police) has increased over the years especially in the UK which means we can't really extrapolate like above. In reality, the ratios likely to be likely closer to each other

=> You get a few bad eggs with the US police and a few accidents but I think mostly the numbers are explained by much more complicated factors
 
Tacitus_ said:
That will be hard since the US has almost as much guns per capita as the next two states combined.
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I know, I guess I am failing to see the point of the article. The UK has far far far less deaths and far far far more gun control than the US? Is that what it is supposed to be saying? Is it trying to say that the US, in general, is just more naturally violent due to some other circumstances? I just don't see what the point of this piece is other than shock value.
 
Maffis said:
Well. In the UK it's illegal to carry guns and the normal police doesn't either. The reason so many die in the US is simply because every Cop is trained to believe the person they're arresting is carrying.

The comparison is stupid. US needs better gun-laws.
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The comparison isn't stupid. It highlights the point you just made and how its a stupid problem that needs to be stamped out lol
 
Maledict said:
The UK has 20% of the population of the USA.

If it were equivalent, the UK would have had 31,740 shootings since 1900. Instead the UK had 44.
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The wikipedia article quoted in OP doesn't differentiate between killings and shootings,

unless you believe that there were only two police killings between 1900-1977 in mainland UK (source: wikipedia article quoted in OP)
 
:lol at the people explaining it by saying the US is bigger. Or by saying there are more gun owners, which explains it.

That's the whole problem. These stats are depressing as hell.
 
Antagon said:
To be fair though, the UK seems like an extreme case (in the good sense). Here in the Netherlands 'safety' has been an important point for political parties and police shootings are far more frequent compared to the UK. There's actual policy for cops to use their weapons more often.
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I would imagine its much easier to smuggle weapons with no border controls.
 
Just vaguely looking at that March list, and I see a few "Cop hits pedestrians crossing the street" and one guy died from some sort of medical problem after his arrest for DUI/Wreckless driving.

A few were shot after shooting at cops, and I see one died from being tazed.

Wonder what the breakdown of all of these would be, because they don't all seem to just be "cops shot and killed person"
 
Philly40 said:
What exactly does 'efficient prisons' mean?


Costs per head, profitability, recidivism rates, deterrence, disproportionate racial profile?

U.S. prisons are good at two of these compared to the rest of the the western world, not so great on the others
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Efficient at keeping criminals there. In Spain you can steal pretty much how many times you want, you won't go to prison for that. That's one thing I like about the American system.
 
During the years 1066-1688 there were precisely zero reports of people scalding themselves on McDonald's coffee in the British Isles.


In the last month alone some guy from Utah spilled a cup on his ankle and experienced some mild discomfort.

That's 7464 months against one month - do the math, people!
 
Philly40 said:
During the years 1066-1688 there were precisely zero reports of people scalding themselves on McDonald's coffee in the British Isles.


In the last month alone some guy from Utah spilled a cup on his ankle and experienced some mild discomfort.

That's 7464 months against one month - do the math, people!
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oh boy where do I start
 
I thought the title said since 1990 and thought, jeez, that's ridiculous.

Then I noticed it said 1900. 115 years. What the fuck.
 
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