Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else

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chromatic9

Member
What I found weird was the IGN stream. Those guys in the past have shown they can't tell PC games over console or resolutions yet in their Witcher 3 stream the IGN guy is saying how much better it looked on PC and the CDPR guys tries to play it down.

What's not surprising is the backlash from the hardcore on the game's forum. After Witcher 2 PC launch, CDPR have been talking up Microsoft and their systems. All this has been bubbling up for a few years now. To some they've been an outspoken PC dev and turned to being a console mouthpiece.
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Doc Evils said:
What the fuck? So they are shipping an unfinished game and finishing it off with a patch????????
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Like every other developer has for the past 10 years?

A game is never done. They went gold, and continued working on polish. That's a good thing.
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Like I said in previous post, they should have let us choose between enabling Hairworks for Geralt and for the animals. It would be betetr to activate it for animals only and keep it off for Geralt not only for better look but also for performance.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Chariot said:
Short answer: nobody knows. CDPR stated that they accidently send out an much older build that makes the game look worse in general
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They didn't send out anything. They held an event in munich on wednesday where they had the PC version and powerful rigs to play it on and outlets like Gamestar and PCGH were there and were allowed to record stuff. Then these outlets uploaded this footage and CDPR comes forward and says its an old build and apparantly not representative anymore.

So either they brought the wrong version to the event, which would be a decent fuckup on its own, or they held an event to show off an unfinished version only 6 days prior to release, which would be pretty stupid, too.

Edit: Apparantly nvidia hosted the event.
 
viveks86

viveks86

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
They didn't send out anything. They held an event in munich on wednesday where they had the PC version and powerful rigs to play it on and outlets like Gamestar and PCGH were there and were allowed to record stuff. Then these outlets uploaded this footage and CDPR comes forward and says its an old build and apparantly not representative anymore.

So either they brought the wrong version to the event, which would be a decent fuckup on its own, or they held an event to show off an unfinished version only 6 days prior to release, which would be pretty stupid, too.
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Are you sure this was at an event? PCGH sounded like they were able to test it against several cards. Regardless, it certainly is on CDPR one way or the other.
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Turin Turambar said:
Hah hah hah.


People really have no idea how games are done. Or more exactly, how companies work.

The geometry is integral to the assets, to the terrain. To the "file" is opened in their world editor. They have to downgrade the geometry in pc because they weren't going to make two versions of the entire (huuge) game world, one for consoles and one for pc, with the pc version having more trees, more bushes, more detailed houses, different rock formations, beter done fences, etc. That would be close to make two games, and making a single game is enough expensive as it is.
Think how maybe the separation of the two theoretical versions of the initial mesh creation should have done 18 months ago. But, in these 18 months they still have to put some more stuff in the world because the game isn't finished, modify villages, forests, caves, they have to tweak things, then they have to tweak some more to do some to optimization and bugfixing (yes, geometry also need fixing). So you would have to make all that work done after the division two times, one for the pc-version world and other for the console version. That's super inefficient.

Notice how most of the times the differences between pc and console version of multiplatfrom games is in the textures (not counting stuff like resolution, AA, framerate) and LoD. Why? Because LoD is just a number if the config, like resolution, and textures because it's easy to always work with one set of textures and when you are going to build the console version, launch a script to compress them with a bit higher ratio. But doing different models and a more detailed world for pc, and a simplified version for consoles is a ton more of work.

You could think that maybe they should have focused on the "higher" pc assets and only at the end of development make the console versions, but the reality is more complicated than that. You have to iterate and iterate and iterate to get something a) working, b)good and polished. You can't wait until the last two months to make a second version of the world for consoles,

Companies exist to maximize profits. So game companies try to make the a single version of their games (minimize costs) and then maximize profits by releasing of the maximum number of platforms (pc, xbox one, ps4).

And let's be honest, the game would have to be half as ambitious if it was done only for pc.


Welcome to multi platform games. Enjoy your stay.
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half? given the 85-15 console-pc revenue split at major pubs, 1/5th be more likely.
 
S

Sodding_Gamer

Member
viveks86 said:
Are you sure this was at an event? PCGH sounded like they were able to test it against several cards. Regardless, it certainly is on CDPR one way or the other.
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Well the IGN stream was hosted by CDPR themselves running on a gtx 980 and the devs said it was running on Ultra and then we find a few of the things were turned off.

For them to turn round and say it's an old build is on them considering some of the footage we saw was from their computers and their devs coming to media outlets to show off the PC game. IGN being one of them. And looking at the stream (I know but still) it doesn't look much different to the PS4 version at all.

Just a bit strange why they are suddenly backing away and saying it's an old build when most PS4 and XBOX one players are actually already playing the retail game at this point. Their team shouldn't be going round showing off an old PC build when there are already retail versions of the game out lol. Makes zero sense.
 
viveks86

viveks86

Member
Sodding_Gamer said:
Their team shouldn't be going round showing off an old PC build when there are already retail versions of the game out lol. Makes zero sense.
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It actually makes sense. Clearly the PC version is coming in hot for whatever reason. No one has review copies afaik. The only people who've done any coverage of the PC version were at this event with an obsolete build. It's a bit worrisome. Working till the last minute like this is bound to result in a lot of bugs. Really hope they pull through and not have a disastrous PC launch
 
M

MaLDo

Member
Turin Turambar said:
Yes, with cars. Which are a single, independent, separate model. What about hills and mountains and forests and villages and walls and cliffs and etc etc, all integrated in the world. All things you have shown with higher detail in the screenshots. Having extra LoDs of everything [more than they have already] is way more work, because precisely the higher LoD we are discussing is that, much more detailed than the one we have right now.

And your example is from a racing game, focused on cars, so it makes sense to put some extra effort in the cars. And the cars are done in 3dMax/Maya and then scaled down, where the scaling down makes basically the same object but with less rounded parts. It isn't the same as a house in a city where the wall panels, the wooden pillars etc are different, it's a different design with less or more detail.
And a big RPG is a more complex product with more moving parts than a racing game, to be honest.
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Every asset is created using a base of high poly model that is automatically translated in a few LODs for game using. You don't start in the low poly model for a game like The Witcher 3.
 
M

MaLDo

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
PCGH has a new article up on the PC version, but its still based on the version thats said to be an old build: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Specials/Technik-Test-1158845/

Also some 5k screenshots:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-W...male-Grafik-1158918/galerie/2373247/?fullsize
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I like how they've implemented that ACUnity effect in the buildings

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-W...male-Grafik-1158918/galerie/2373224/?fullsize
 
S

Sodding_Gamer

Member
viveks86 said:
It actually makes sense. Clearly the PC version is coming in hot for whatever reason. No one has review copies afaik. The only people who've done any coverage of the PC version were at this event with an obsolete build. It's a bit worrisome. Working till the last minute like this is bound to result in a lot of bugs. Really hope they pull through and not have a disastrous PC launch
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I wasn't willing to think of that as a scenario but if that is the case then it does make perfect sense lol.

It's a shame really considering how open and honest CDPR have been and how they treated PC players first and foremost and now we are the ones left in the dust. I mean people have spent hundreds of pounds on graphics cards in anticipation for this game due to the graphical showcases it's had in previous trailers etc. :( Tis a sad state of affairs really. I'm sure the game will be great fun but if it looks just like a slightly better version of the console ports i'll always have it in the back of my mind how this game could of looked.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
viveks86 said:
It actually makes sense. Clearly the PC version is coming in hot for whatever reason. No one has review copies afaik. The only people who've done any coverage of the PC version were at this event with an obsolete build. It's a bit worrisome. Working till the last minute like this is bound to result in a lot of bugs. Really hope they pull through and not have a disastrous PC launch
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This. It's even more troubling when the game was delayed twice.

Something is really weird. The whole idea that they could only send review copies out to debug consoles after the retail version had already been shipped was strange too.

Fingers crossed that it's a smooth launch.
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
I think it looks okay.
Hairworks off
witcher3_hairworks_aus_nahaufnahme-pcgh.png


Hairworks on
witcher3_hairworks_an_nahaufnahme-pcgh.png
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Oh wow, HairWorks off looks way better o_O To clarify HairWorks has some weird shine to hair.

imo
 
G

Gbraga

Member
PLASTICA-MAN said:
Like I said in previous post, they should have let us choose between enabling Hairworks for Geralt and for the animals. It would be betetr to activate it for animals only and keep it off for Geralt not only for better look but also for performance.
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That would be awesome!
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Hellshingu said:
I just cancelled my CE of the PC version. Mostly because even though I do want to play this game I do not want to play it for $150+ anymore and other things have come up that the money would better go towards. I was also going to get a new video card but after this "downgrade" and reading articles of it getting great performance at high settings with 2GB video cards I don't see any reason to. I will pick it up on GoG most likely shortly after release or if there is a good sale for under $40. I've been burned by too many games on release recently and have decided to just cancel all pre-orders I have had in general.
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yeah, pre-orders ar a mug's game. Better to wait and play a working game and spend less money, esp a single player game on pc.
 
viveks86

viveks86

Member
Lunar15 said:
This. It's even more troubling when the game was delayed twice.

Something is really weird. The whole idea that they could only send review copies out to debug consoles after the retail version had already been shipped was strange too.

Fingers crossed that it's a smooth launch.
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I think it might have a lot to do with it being their first large scale simultaneous multiplat release. Just too many things need to come together at the same time in terms of release management and PR. One of the reasons indies shy away from it and stagger their releases. There is more money on the table with a unified release plan (common marketing cycle, public mindshare, reviews etc), but is also equally complex to pull off. CDPR seem to be struggling with it. At least they managed to pull through with the console versions, so props for that. Just 1 more platform to go

universalmind said:
I have a feeling the "old build" thing is just an excuse.
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Well, since our knowledge on the matter is 0 and theirs is 100, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt till launch day
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
viveks86 said:
Agreed!
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Tovarisc said:
Oh wow, HairWorks off looks way better o_O To clarify HairWorks has some weird shine to hair.

imo
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Gbraga said:
That would be awesome!
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DOWN said:
HairWorks looking like a flat salon wig full of mouse sitting on top of a shiny buzzcut. Why can't they get HairWorks to look more natural and tousled like his standard hair?
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UrbanRats said:
Like Tomb Raider's TressFX before it, normal hair just look more part of the game, and better integrated.
Those shiny, perfect hair look very out of place.

Probably be worth to activate it for monsters' and animals' furs, tho.
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Back me up please : http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/36210-HairWorks-choice-suggestion?p=1662806#post1662806
 
viveks86

viveks86

Member
universalmind said:
I wonder what that guy will be saying if there is no graphical improvement from the day 1 patch. I mean he just called the PC version bad looking.
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Yeah Marcin has pretty much stuck his neck out for the second time. First with his categorical confirmation that SoD/VGX's fidelity will be replicable and now this. It will not end well for CDPR if they don't deliver. They'll be rolling in cash regardless, but it's never wise to alienate your core fan base. I'm sure they know that too.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Chaos17 said:
CD Projekt comment on removed Witcher 3 PC-PS4 comparison video
http://www.incgamers.com/2015/05/cd-projekt-comment-on-removed-witcher-3-pc-ps4-comparison-video
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Momot restates that the PC version will look superior to the console versions, and cites draw distance, frame-rate, resolution and “exclusive features such as hairworks” as the reasons why. No specific mention of better textures, though.
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The video actually shown the better draw distance. The ground texture in the boat yard looked better on PC.

Frame rate, resolution mean nothing, they're a given. And hair works is a given. So the reasoning doesn't quite hit hard. Resolution and frame rate??? Crytek and Ubisoft would be proud of such statements..

Next it will be faster loading from CDPR. Starting to feel its Console Department Public Relations.
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
making that patch sound like extreme makeover. like the video accidentally showed two before images and not the after. he sound like he could patch me back to the breezy days in middle school
 
C

CrichtonKicks

Member
Lunar15 said:
This. It's even more troubling when the game was delayed twice.

Something is really weird. The whole idea that they could only send review copies out to debug consoles after the retail version had already been shipped was strange too.

Fingers crossed that it's a smooth launch.
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No that's just how consoles work. Patches have to go through a lengthy certification by MS and Sony. So if you want reviewers to play with a patch that hasn't finished certification then the reviewers need debug units to run that code. Most games these days receive Day 1/Day 0 patches to reflect work done after cert since cert finishes so far from the actual release date.

If anything it's a good sign that the "Day One" patch was put up almost a week before release. A lot of times those truly do come in hat and land much closer to actual launch.

Doc Evils said:
We shouldn't reward or tolerate this bullshit anymore.
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I think you may be conflating 2 different things.

Yes, they had the wrong build at the events. That doesn't mean that it's the same build sitting on people's HDDs right now from preloads. It could just as likely be that someone grabbed the wrong build prepping for the event.
 
artsi

artsi

Member
chromatic9 said:
The video actually shown the better draw distance. The ground texture in the boat yard looked better on PC.

Frame rate, resolution mean nothing, they're a given. And hair works is a given. So the reasoning doesn't quite hit hard. Resolution and frame rate??? Crytek and Ubisoft would be proud of such statements..

Next it will be faster loading from CDPR. Starting to feel its Console Department Public Relations.
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Yeah. We just have to accept that CDPR isn't anymore the same PC exclusive developer but another company amongst others that's chasing the sweet multiplatform money.

I can bet money that the PC version will look just like we've seen it when the game launches. It's just PR speak at this point to maximize preorders and profits.
 
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